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So sadly my local bike shop blazing saddles in rustington West Sussex is closing down with in the next couple of months after many years of hard work and service to us local riders! Bad times for the local community!
But having said all that he's pretty upbeat about as the stress was just getting to much and as a fair few of us will know there is always light at the end of any bad tunnel!
So unsure if this is really allowed as its kinda of an add but if it isn't I'm sorry and by all means delete it.
But he does have one canondale trigger 3 left 2016 in red and size medium hes selling off at trade price.
so if anyone is in the market for a 140mm travel full sus it might be worth a phone call as its priced at £1960 plus post. So if some one wants a bargain bike google the shop and give them a call he does have a couple of dale cx bikes there at trade price to if that's your thing.
Cheers and sorry if this is naughty Bats.
That's sad.
Bought my Yeti 575 frame from them years ago.
Its a shame when shops just can't keep up with the internet big hitters.
Sad times. Too many people buying on the internet from companies paying minimal tax and employing very few staff. It cannot end well 😥
The Internet Will Not Fix Your Bike.
In a nut shell thankfully he's going to keep a work shop open so at least the oldies can still get there bikes looked after as can I lol.
The Internet Will Not Fix Your Bike.
A lot of people don't need someone else to fix their bike for them.
A lot of people don't need someone else to fix their bike for them.
the problem a significant number of people believe they dont - and they actually do.....
* i spent last sunday talking someone through gear cable replacement over skype....... he is a car mechanic. Still couldnt get his gears working even with youtube.
And more importantly, not everyone is lucky enough to have a parent or group of mates into bikes who can fix things for them and help them out.
Before we were all big smarty pants with garages full of tools I'd bet that a majority of us on here started our MTB journey by walking into their LBS. I know I did.
Good bike shops are the infrastructure that makes the sport accessible to the curious member of the public. Without that local back up cycling and mountain biking in particular, is pretty daunting yo get into, so less bike shops = less cyclists.
Noone ever took their first steps in this brilliant little pastime of ours because of Canyon or CRC.
I ordered my first bike as an adult from Evans and ventured solo onto my local trails because of places like here.
I didn't know where my lbs was (4 miles away) until it was mentioned on another forum. Even if I would have known I would have still bought a bike online as my lbs didn't at the time stock/have access to anything I wanted.
I'm all for supporting my lbs at every opportunity but unless he has or can get what I want my hands are tied.
All of that said, it's sad to see another small business close.
plus one
A lot of people don't need someone else to fix their bike for them.
I use LBS but most stuff I do myself, the market has changed globalisation is a thing and we need to move on, stay competitive.
Has the rise in road biking resulted in less work for bike shops?
IME road bikes need a lot less maintenance, and you don't break things anywhere near as often compared to MTBs.
The Internet Will Not Fix Your Bike
But even that appears to not be the case, Wiggle are promoting (a new?) bike servicing service.
Speaking of Wiggle, when did they leave Portsmouth? The returns label that came with my few goodies from them midweek was somewhere near Wolverhampton!
Sad to read another shop going, I purposely bought those bits from Wiggle rather than Amazon (who were fractionally cheaper), as a conscious choice to "help the specialized minnow" store.
I purposely bought those bits from Wiggle rather than Amazon
Look at who the seller is on Amazon - it could easily be your LBS!
Id also add that, thankfully, reliability has improved. Shops need to develop to a new model, looking back to what was needed before isn't likely to be successful
Maybe more of us are inclined to do more maintenance ourselves, rather than book the bike into the LBS, to save a bit of cash in these frugal times. Certainly applies to me, I've spent ~£30 on a Jobsworth Shimano tool kit and a pair of Park Tools master-link pliers this year, will easily save me money in the long term (plus I've kind of enjoyed doing new stuff like removing/installing cassettes etc.).
A lot of people don't need someone else to fix their bike for them.
I don't service my car myself either btw. Without my LBS I wouldn't be riding in all likelihood. I have neither the aptitude or facilities to service a bike as I live in a flat.
As for "new business model". Internet sellers don't pay high street business rates or for the most part UK tax and ni for employees. That IMO is the prime reason they sell products for less. If there are less businesses we will all have to pay that tax instead and/or pay the unemployment benefits of the people no longer in work.
My LBS was the prime organizer behind the majority of the local trails.
The demise of local business at the hands of internet sellers is a material issue imo.
I can fix most stuff on the bike but there are bits and bobs that always need a profesionnal's touch. That said I live in edinburgh and there is always at least a weeks wait for anything to be done at the shops I approach, so busiess can't be that bad.
Rarely buy anything from them to be fair however but I'm surprised more can't survive on maintanence alone.
A lot of small bike shops will have to go and the remaining will offer maintenance service only without need for an expensive shop front.
They will never compete with internet sales on price and will never have good enough stock levels to satisfy those that want specific items they get from the internet shops.
I haven't shopped in a LBS for a long time, if I go to one I always have to go twice once to be told they don't have it but can order it and another to go back and pick it up. My time off work is precious and I'd rather be riding my bike to be honest. If I work on my bike I take it to work and fettle in their time not my own.
The past few times I've let a LBS do any work on my bike it's not been right resulting in a 2nd visit so I too have purchased some tools this year, a proper pair of cable cutters, BB spanner, chain whip, master link pliers. That way if it's not right I can blame myself, this saves a total stranger blaming me for having my chain too long resulting in him taking out 6 links? Throwing my rear mech into the spokes and screwing everything up after charging me £40 for a rear cable replacement. So I'm not surprised that more LBS are shutting, it's a shame to see them slip away but it is a sign of the times I'm afraid, people can see what they want on line, it tells you if it's in stock and delivers it within 24 hours.
I'm surprised CRC, Wiggle etc haven't started opening service only stores in UK cities already? There's gotta be a market for drop in service shops, plenty of folk order stuff they don't even have to tools to fit. So servicing and repairs are surely the way forward.
#racetothebottom
Ime of people ordering stuff and coming to the shop to have it fitted.
Often they bought the wrong thing. And that's the shops fault-or we are lying. You pick.
Agreed Rubber, I think it's desperately short sighted. I have posted before I'd stick 15-25% extra tax on stuff bought online.
Xyeti I think the shops stock much less than they used to as folk stopped buying and/or complained about the price of stuff. I have been in my lbs when a guy has come in for a tube on Sunday morning as he needed it asap for a ride and then complained about the price.
Aside from ability to fix things you need the tools and as I said the right spot to do the work, we don't all have fully equipped man caves
Lots of people do still pay for repair work but as above the shop I'm in stocks far less of the shiny things compared to 10 years ago , just no point.
well these days i use a bike shop mostly for this reasons : get energy gels and energy snacks , get information about off piste trails , and occasionally buy consumables ( disc pads , chain links , chain lubes) never components unless its emergency as when i snap mech on saturday practice before an enduro race.
I'm surprised CRC, Wiggle etc haven't started opening service only stores in UK cities already? There's gotta be a market for drop in service shops, plenty of folk order stuff they don't even have to tools to fit. So servicing and repairs are surely the way forward.
Because these shops cost money to run, need staff and are not based in the cheapest possible locations. They also know of their business model and its not shops.
Aside from ability to fix things you need the tools and as I said the right spot to do the work, we don't all have fully equipped man caves
Which is why there will be a need for shops to do maintenance and repair work. Just like there are garages who only fix your car, do MOTs etc,. but don't sell cars or car parts.
Bike shops who have adjusted are doing well, i.e. Primera in Bournemouth who competed by offering internet sales but also keeping two fairly good shops. A small shop only business trying to succeed on people walking in and paying over the odds for bikes and parts is simply not going to exist (and shouldn't either)
It is not a race to the bottom it is the evolution of shopping and simple supply and demand.
I purposely bought those bits from Wiggle rather than Amazon (who were fractionally cheaper), as a conscious choice to "help the specialized minnow" store.
Minnow? They made £13.2m profit (from £172m revenue) in 2014.
One thing I have noticed is that in any decent bike shop the workshop is always busy.
There are bike shops near me doing very well, rammed with new stock, customers buying it and plenty of indication they are doing well and expanding into new shops.
There are others that are like ghost towns, nothing changes, same old stuff hanging around for ages, no customers and you feel uneasy when your there.
Thats business, success and failure, neither is anyone elses fault but the person running the business.
Certainly applies to me, I've spent ~£30 on a Jobsworth Shimano tool kit and a pair of Park Tools master-link pliers this year, will easily save me money in the long term (plus I've kind of enjoyed doing new stuff like removing/installing cassettes etc.).
Not a dig at you personally, but this does sum up the attitude of many cyclists these days. I've invested in the region of £5k-£6k in tools for the workshop in my shop, in order that we can fix just about anything anybody brings in to us, but we still know our limits and would still send a high end fork off to LoCo/TF/Mojo for a full service as we know they're the specialists in the field and will do a better job than we can. You'd be amazed at the amount of bikes I've seen "fixed" using a £30 tool kit after the owner has spent an hour on YouTube and read a couple of Internet forum threads...
With this mentality, why not have a go at brain surgery? Even less tools required there, just a few different sharp objects and some rubber gloves, what could possibly go wrong! 😉
In all seriousness though... The reason this happens a lot is your average customer feels relatively time rich and cash poor these days compared to a decade or two ago, and this forces their hand to giving things a go themselves. I know more than enough about cars to have a good go at fixing mine myself, but my local garage has invested tens of thousands of £ in tools and diagnostic equipment and training for their staff, and I know that if I pay them to fix it it will be done properly in the minimum of time, and my time is better spent fixing other people's bikes and/or selling them a new one! If you've got a job which pays you to stare at a computer screen all day, possibly (often) allowing you to read forums like this and go on YouTube, the temptation to DIY is much stronger!
Lol at the suggestion bike maintenance compares to brain surgery; this highlights the problem for struggling LBS ... an over inflated ego.
Bike maintenance isn't difficult, and as said, if the LBS sends the specialist stuff like forks to the likes of Mojo ... then cut out the middle man and send them there yourself.
Seriously, what job on a mtb can a reasonably adept person not do apart from regas a shock? It's just a bicycle you are not setting clearances to microns or anything. I am genuinely amazed people actually hand over money to get something as basic as a gear cable changed. Remarkable.
This is where I get to do my usual discussion about how the Venn diagram of bike shops and STW users doesn't have much intersection.
Most people who ride bikes don't know or care an awful lot about the mechanical details, just like most car drivers. Most people have little mechanical aptitude, inclination or time to learn. Most people don't have home workshops. Many people like to see and try stuff for real, not just read opinions on Internet forums. (Fora?)
Bike shops are having it tough at the moment for sure. I've been saying on trade forums for, well, forever that bike shops need to stop marketing to cyclists. Cyclists are the worst possible customers for a bike shop. Internet selling and other outlets have had a serious impact. It's certainly possible that the LBS will go the way of many other local shops, and disappear entirely - and if it does we'll be the poorer, just as we are with the loss of local bookshops, record stores etc.
Glenn did a lot for the road community round here. The Blazing Saddles road train is legendary, take no prisoners.
It's not a popular statement but I found the shop looked a bit forgotten for the last few years. Sussex Velo round the corner is a smaller shop in a cheaper location and seems (on the face of it to be doing well).
South Downs Bikes, Quest and the Bike Store all within a few miles of Blazing Sadles have been thriving for years. The LBS is not dead round here at all and that's a red herring OP, something else was wrong.
As for 'brain surgery' mboy, really? I'm no genius but outside of wheel building (don't have the time) there isn't a single normal job on a bike that would get more than 2 difficulty stars in a proper Haynes manual. Even forks aren't difficult to do a standard rebuild.
I can do accounts - I got a degree in astrophysics, doing the business accounts would be easy in comparison. But I don't, I have an accountant, because I don't have the time and I hate accounting.
I could service my own car. Cars are pretty simple to work on. But I mostly don't because I don't have the time and I like the knowledge that someone expert has looked at it.
I could install and service my own alarm system at the shop - it's only a bit of wiring, it's not hard to do. But I get an alarm company to do it because I don't want to spend the time and I like the knowledge that it's done properly - and so do my insurance company.
Sure, most bike maintenance isn't that hard if you have the time and tools - and if your bike is decent and well maintained already. Those conditions don't apply to most people.
Ok, but there at least 6 thriving 'proper' bike shops around here. There's clearly still a market here.
...your average customer feels relatively time rich and cash poor these days
Interesting assessment. I'd suggest it's the complete opposite; I struggle to find opportunities to ride my bike never mind fix it. I was riding around on a (road) bike with creaking wheel and headset bearings for waaayyyy too long before finally swallowing my pride and letting the LSB do it. Maybe it's a bit of laziness too.
I used to love disappearing to the man cave to fettle with my bike and have learnt the skills over the years to be able to build a bike. I used to find it very satisfying but there are so many other things I'd rather be doing - or have to do - instead nowadays. Most are related to being a parent; a joy and a pleasure but also the epitome of a double-edged sword
Ok, but there at least 6 thriving 'proper' bike shops around here. There's clearly still a market here.
Possibly they'd all say business has been harder over the past year or two. I don't know why this shop is closing but it could be the lease is up for renewal and the owner has decided to get out now rather than commit to x years. It must be hard to kiss goodbye to all that hard work over the years but I can also imagine it to be a relief to escape the stress
I have noticed that the type of bike shop that flourishes has changed round here over the last 10 years or so. The traditional ones (small premises, does all types of bikes, small staff count etc) are falling by the wayside as they've failed to adapt to the internet providing the knowledge that they excelled in and the big warehouse sellers are undercutting them on kit for commuters for example so no-one has a reason to visit. The ones that are doing well have targetted a certain segment of the cycling fraterity like commuters, roadies, students with their fixies etc and become the go-to place for that customer. Where two shops decide to target the same customer base one usually fails and shuts where the other succeeds.
I was surprised to learn that Castle Bikes of Caerphilly is closing though, they haven't long moved from the top of town into a new unit in Trethomas next to a busy Tesco's. The area has a lot of riders and I don't know of any competition nearby, apart from Halfords. Have had good service and advice from them in the past so will be sad to see them go.
(small premises, does all types of bikes, small staff count etc)
Tamed Earth in Hindhead has closed up too. 🙁
porter_jamie - Member
Seriously, what job on a mtb can a reasonably adept person not do apart from regas a shock?
Got a pen and paper...
I know people who are smart, technical and very sharp but don't get things like setting gears, badly designed mechs that hide the adjustment screws and break a link between seeing and doing don't help.
Wheel building, just a dark art to me and I don't really care I'll pay somebody who does hundreds of them a year to build one properly.
As said elsewhere not everyone lives in perfection with a shed/garage etc. At the moment I don't even have space for all my tools (or bikes) so the simple job of swapping some bearings today took a lot longer.
I need to get the linkage bearings changed on my SC this week I'll take it to the shop who has the proper SC tools to do it, they service loads of the bikes, I only do one so not worth another tool taking up space I don't have.
Everyone can do a suspension service but if the options are in the kitchen or the living room then maybe a shop is a much better place for it. I could do it in half the time in a proper workshop with all the tools an all the stuff you need if something isn't right at hand. The oil goes in the oil pan for bulk disposal rather than trying to collect it all up for a couple of years.
As most within the industry have been saying and seen for a while now it's tough times ahead.
Case in point for this shop is really internet sales have been the biggest impact for him! Crc doing there parts sales on Shimano and sram cheaper than they buy them in at, then of cause there bike sales he stocks cube crc buy last years left ove cubes and sell them 25% cheaper.
So many people come through spend time with him trying road bikes etc and then a couple of weeks later you see them ride past on a new bike. Seems weird to me to not even ask the shop owner if they can match or near as dame it match a price! Better to make some thing than nothing. Sadly though as mentioned as sales went down so has the shop not for want of trying though I'll give him that.
Regards repairs and servicing I think it would really impact older people who still ride there bikes, he looks after a lot of those. But he is keeping a work shop service going in the same building as he owns.
I agree servicing forks might be a bit tricky for some. But for the lbs to just pass it on to tft or mojo us silly and a bit lazy, and it's a loss of potential profit. Get off your fat entitled arse and learn how to do it yourself. Adapt or die
. But for the lbs to just pass it on to tft or mojo us silly and a bit lazy,
Most shops will do a normal service though
Get off your fat entitled arse and learn how to do it yourself.
You read my post though didn't you, for me it's got nothing to do with a fat entitles arse but more that I have no space to do it. Plenty of people are like that. Got mates who work damm hard and long hours - they like to ride their bikes so they pay for a professional mechanic to sort their bikes out. Dropping off on the way to work and picking up at some point.
If we are not careful the awesome new world will require all mountain bikers to own a massive tool kit, remember to order spares so that it can be posted out and have workshop space allotted to the various jobs while we rely on people vague inside leg measurements online to work out if a bike will fit us
bencooper - Member
...I've been saying on trade forums for, well, forever that bike shops need to stop marketing to cyclists...
Very true. I read something similar in a discussion in a 1930s magazine about the threat of mail order cheap bikes.
@mikewsmith - i meant the lbs, not you! obviously, some people won't be comfortable taking on the slightly trickier jobs and so taking it to a professional is the right thing to do. but for a lbs to send forks off a customers bike to get serviced seems a bit silly, to me.
Same thing was happening in the scuba diving world years ago, people buying kit off the web rather than whatever their LDS had sat in stock. Lots of LDS couldn't compete and shut down. The big difference there is that most people don't have a compressor at home so need to get gas from somewhere. The tagline used on the forums was "you can't get gas from the web" - sound familiar?
Those that survived have adapted, catering to narrower markets with the kit while offering training, trips, cylinder testing etc. The Internet is still selling kit, many LDS are still flourishing, people are still going diving (though I think numbers have dropped due to other reasons).
The most successful chain of stores around here have prominently position shops, they are well fitted, looking modern and well stocked. They don't really compete on price but give club discounts so aren't far off on everything except cassettes.
There market is non cyclist reasonably well off types who want a couple hybrids or bikes for the kids who they give the confidence they'll get good quality bikes well set up and decent advice and affluent middle age types with Audis buying expensive bikes and parts. They also run a tight workshop and are probably the only place I would let work on a bike of mine. As an example they made some mods to my daughters bike and care taken in with the finish was evident something that hasn't been my experience with other shops.
So basically they are good at selling, good at service and good at running a business, so are making money.
A massive toolkit to fix and maintain mountain bikes? Come on, the vast majority of things can be fixed/replaced with a small amount of tools stored in a Stanley fatmax toolbox or similar. Add a workstand and there is nothing much you can't do in your living room on a piece of protective flooring to save any mess. LBS workshops are overselling themselves a bit here.
I suppose all those who bemoan the loss of their LBS due to the 'internet' also make a point of using their local greengrocers, butchers, ironmongers, milkmen, blacksmith, cobbler, bank, post office and everything else thats slowly disappearing.
I suppose all those who bemoan the loss of their LBS due to the 'internet' also make a point of using their local greengrocers, butchers, ironmongers, milkmen, blacksmith, cobbler, bank, post office and everything else thats slowly disappearing.
I do most of my shopping locally...
Bike tools needed
4 or 5 different BB tools
Allen Keys (t handles)
Torx Keys (up to 4 now I think) t handles
Variety of Hammers, different sets of seal tools for the different forks I have
Bearing Pullers and presses
That nice handy thread chaser for when you damage your BB threads
set of hope hub bearing tools
set of good screwdrivers
magnetic thingy
stuff for doing internal cable runs
that good hanger tool
headset press
going to be a bigger box... that's just the basic stuff like I say when it's DIY or nothing it's a bit more.
even as a DIYist theres still tools i find i need for bikes today i didnt need 10 years ago when i amassed most of my tools using them to make $$$
multi meter and soldering iron to name a couple.
Tbh i think theres a market for shops like bens where problem solving is king. IE i want a bracket to mount XYZ there ....
and the shop has on site facilitys to knock up a mount and a way to mount it .
For run of the mill bolting stuff together - not so much HOW ever as i said earlier - the number of experianced long term riders - other wise sensible people ive had come to me with such things as X9 shifter xt rear mech - it doesnt work why ? says that the home mech will never be the norm - its just the STW way.
it doesnt work why ? says that the home mech will never be the norm - its just the STW way.
reading some of the asking for help threads in here I'd not say the general STW level is that high some days 😉
All depends how many bikes you have. I just have one and would never take it a shop.
Bike tools needed, ones that I can remember using;
Allen keys
Phillips screwdriver
hammer
few spanners
1 external bb tool
Cassette removal tool
Chainwhip
Would all fit in a small box if I didn't happen to have a garage.
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base kit but leaves a lot missing
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Just about covers the basics 😉 there is a big difference between half arsed make do tools and doing stuff right. Things like a steerer/post cutting guide make a huge difference, add in a nice set of files for tidying up and maybe a nice vice
The problem with not marketing your LBS to cyclists is how to market yourself to non-cyclists without scaring them away.
A discussion I was having with someone yesterday when they asked if their LBS had quoted them a fair price (they don't ride much and their bike is worth maybe £175 as is).
It needed a new tyre, 4 brake blocks, chain, cassette, gear cables and outers, BB and a good lubing.
As I added up the prices (CRC) then thought how long it would take me @10 p/h I was fractionally cheaper than the shop. Of course they can buy it cheaper and their mechanic works faster than me (plus my cycle maintenance is always when the children are asleep and I can open a beer). Of course the LBS has many other costs to include. I talked my friend around but being told that what he saw as a little work was a good percentage of the cost of the bike was hard for him to swallow.
If he'd gone in with a £75 bike then the cost of the repairs and new components would have been similar. I wonder if new (shit) bikes are simply too cheap to give LBSs enough work.
what job on a mtb can a reasonably adept person not do apart from regas a shock?
Setup a front mech? 😀
if the LBS sends the specialist stuff like forks to the likes of Mojo ... then cut out the middle man and send them there yourself.
Your assuming they know how to remove them, plenty don't know how to adjust a headset correctly.
The vast majority of cyclists aren't adept IME!
Someone not having the time (or space) to fix their bike vs saying they can't because it's akin to brain surgery are very different arguments.
One is absolutely fair enough and the other is nonsense that won't help the bike shop's cause.
Riders bring in bikes & say "my bottle won't work" the mechanic then puts the bottle cage the right way up for them. Goodness knows how they'd cope with changing the bearings in a press fit BB
So if the average punter is so obviously useless, then why are bike shops struggling due to the internet? Surely these same useless punters aren't buying stuff online if they are that incapable? Me thinks there is some exaggerating going on.
As for 'brain surgery' mboy, really?
It's a sad sad day when an obvious joke goes over people's heads on STW!!! 🙄
Bencooper and trail_rat have hit the nails squarely on the head. Those arguing that people are lazy for not servicing their own suspension just don't get it at all! The likes of Fox, you have to go on a week long course these days to be accredited to service Fox forks and shocks, and then you have to buy a plethora of specific tools and spare parts for every eventuality. It's really not worth it for most LBS'. Rockshox and other makes are less of a palaver, but if someone comes to me with a nearly new Fox36 worth the best part of £1k wanting it serviced, ill send it to the specialists who have spent the time and effort learning that particular product inside out. I'm busy enough as it is without having to go away on a course to become accredited and then spend loads on the correct tools and spares just for one make of suspension... (This is more of a dig at Fox than anything else in case you hadn't guessed!).
A shop will have far more tools than most home mechanics partly because they have to cover everything from a old aw 3 speed hub through to di2 stuff
I have a big pile of tools just for freewheels cassettes and bottom brackets
Most cycle stuff is easy if your mechanicly minded but many people are not
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It's a mixture of issue. There were a number of bikes shops near to me. One was purely a family bike shop, flogging 4 bikes to A family and maybe getting a service..
The other bike shop was for proper mountain bikers, with lots of bling and higher prices. Both of which were in the next town. Fast forward to today. Both shops are still there. Family bike shop has moved and expanded their range, but still a family bike shop. The mountain bike shop has now diversified to include tri stuff and more blin catering for mid life crisis too much cash type purchase.
However there a re now a clutch of trendy bike shops, including an ebike store. Most interestingly there is a shop which is also a cafe. I think that Th cafe/shop/bike shop lbs has hit the nail on the head, decent customer service workshop seems decent and busy and a nice place to be. As has been mentioned lbs need to find a niche, offering something more than just a bike shop.
Could just be I'm easily swayed by the fact I can usually get something done on my bike whilst I have a bit of cake and then the work is finished.
Similarly the issue with some bike shops is their focus to customer service is non existent, due to being a sole distributor or just being arrogant ****s. I think what a lot of people do is look up how to do the job online and aren't willing to pay for "a simple" job but fail to appreciate the skill behind the work carried out. Or are just intimidated by going into a lbs and getting ripped off (bit like going the reputation mechanics got). The other thing is some people just are of the option that it's just a bike.
Waffle over.
Mikewsmith - that kit includes head tube reamers and a headset press, but I read on an Internet forum somewhere that reaming head tubes was a waste of time and you don't need a headset press, you can just use a rubber mallet 😉
no no no ben you just cut a slot in the cup dont you ?
Back to blazing saddles, obviously no one sems to know the real reason why they are closing but there does seem to be a lot of bike shops around these parts. Ive often wondered how they all make a living. Im guessing it was just enivitable that one of them would eventually throw in the towel. From shoreham to littlehampton ,say 10 miles along the coast, I think there are 7 bike shops that I would say are stw type bike shops, and 4 general family type shops, plus 3 halfords. Thats a lot of bike business required. Simple case of a lot local competition.
holmes81 - Member
...I think what a lot of people do is look up how to do the job online and aren't willing to pay for "a simple" job but fail to appreciate the skill behind the work carried out....
Most bike jobs consist of a bit of knowledge that takes a few minutes to acquire. The rest of it is skill, and that takes time and mistakes to acquire.
Some customers don't realise the difference between skill and knowledge.
(If you need an example, I know the fingering for the various notes and chords on a guitar, but play it? Pfhttt! 🙂 )
@km there isn't a snowballs chance in hell I would fix my bike in the living room with a floor covering. Zero. Even if I thought it was a good idea the Mrs will quite rightly never agree.
Once again I find it very interesting that folk on here are all for buying bits off the internet and fixing their own bikes and sod the LBS, yet when I argue politics I am a right wing nut job against the STW lefty massive. The tax-dodging box-shifting zero value-add internet is killing LBS and local employment.
Epicyclo true, the major point I was trying to make, is some people aren't happy paying the going rate, for a "simple" job.
35 years ago, before mountain bikes came onto the scene, racing and touring cycling were relatively niche activities, historically enjoyed by the less well off. The cycle shops and the choice and quality of equipment that existed then reflected that.
Since then there has been a general rise in living standards and disposable discretionary income in the UK and the rest of the developed world, and that has funded a dramatic growth in cycling as a leisure activity, including the development of bikes and components that perform much better than what had previously been available, but which often require much more maintenance and have shorter life spans.
Many of the bikes shops now closing or under threat, did not exist before mountain bikes, and largely came into being to service that change and growth in the market in the 1980s/1990s and since.
It's understandable that those of us who have got into cycling during the same period are comfortable with the status quo and do not want to see their current local shop close, but it's probably unrealistic. Just as those small dingy bike shops which served touring, racing and utiity cyclists in the 1970s either closed or had to reinvent themselves when mountain bikes came onto the scene, cycle shops and their owners are now having to consider changing their business models to take account of the internet retailers.
Some people will prefer to undertake as much of their own maintenance as possible and acquire the necessary tools, others prefer to have the convenience and reliability of a good LBS that will do it all for them. I guess it will be the ratio of the former to the latter - together with the impact of internet sales - that will determine the viability of the current incarnation of the 'traditional' bike shop.
PS Jambalaya, I was surprised by your comments:
Internet sellers don't pay high street business rates or for the most part UK tax and ni for employees. That IMO is the prime reason they sell products for less. If there are less businesses we will all have to pay that tax instead and/or pay the unemployment benefits of the people no longer in work.
I have posted before I'd stick 15-25% extra tax on stuff bought online.
Wiggle and CRC are UK based and pay UK taxes as far as I am aware. It seems to me that their existence reflects in economic terms a very efficient market: with a small number of employees and low overheads for premises, they are able to deliver large quantities of a wide choice of goods to customers very quickly at low prices. Instead of letting the market decide and finding its own balance between internet retailers and LBS, you want to intervene and make the internet retailers less competitive by introducing a special tax targeted just at them, the effect of which will be that all of us will be paying higher prices. You are effectively saying that inefficient businesses should be maintained by state intervention requiring all of us to pay higher prices, in order to keep people in employment, rather than letting the market find its own level. As you say, that's hardly the viewpoint of a right-wing nut job.
With regard to the "box-shifting zero value-add internet", bikes and parts are commodities, and the internet retailers are better at selling them than the average LBS. If the other activities performed by bike shops add value, then that value should be properly priced and charged for, rather than subsidised by the sale of bikes and parts. That may mean you have to pay more for servicing and maintenance.
The tax-dodging box-shifting zero value-add internet is killing LBS and local employment.
Sounds a bit luddite to me, you will be burning down the internet warehouses soon.
Times change, things move on. If people don't have a use for bike shops they don't have a use for bike shops.
Although looking at this thread there is a need for bike shops for maintenance, repair, fitting etc,. for those that don't trip up on their shoelaces on the way to the shop. That is where the business and employment will be, and arguably the job is better (I would rather be fitting, fixing than taking something off a shelf and putting it in a bag)
Jamba, does your web tax also apply to insurance, banking, ultilities, holidays, food, books, tv's, shoes, clothing, music, games and on and on with everything else people like to buy online? And when you've increased the cost of living by 25% what are you going to do with the money, give to some ****less chancer who thought he could make a living out his hobby but turned out he was shit at business and had a shop nobody wanted? Just so he can stand there with an empty shop?
You should apply for a job in the Greek government.
Wiggle and CRC are UK based and pay UK taxes as far as I am aware. It seems to me that their existence reflects in economic terms a very efficient market: with a small number of employees and low overheads for premises, they are able to deliver large quantities of a wide choice of goods to customers very quickly at low prices
Whilst I don't doubt that part of this statement is true, having worked as a Continous Improvement engineer in large scale box shifting logistics in a previous role, I know the margin for error is very tight and big warehouses need to be very efficient to make money at the margins they operate at, but... Wiggle is a Tax write off for a Venture Capitalist firm, and now CRC is under the same banner! I couldn't tell you how much tax the 2 companies are paying, but given the nature of their ownership, it's a LOT less than it should be by rights!
doesnt just apply to bikes that though
Epicyclo true, the major point I was trying to make, is some people aren't happy paying the going rate, for a "simple" job.
case in point the "simple electricians thread this morning" "can i stick this wire into here ? - what i read was - i dont know enough about this to even phrase the question right with relevent information.
but its a simple job.
sure it is for a spark.
no no no ben you just cut a slot in the cup dont you ?
Speaking of which, can anyone spot what's wrong with this crown race?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291665699234
i bet he was "an engineer ken like"
Notchy steering on those little wheels - must have scared the bejesus out of him.
I couldn't tell you how much tax the 2 companies are paying, but given the nature of their ownership, it's a LOT less than it should be
You don't know how much they are paying, but you know it's less than it should be. How does that work?
Speaking of which, can anyone spot what's wrong with this crown race?
is that so you can put spare balls in?
These other shops that appear to be thriving, I suggest you take a look at their accounts on companies house and see if any are making money as those I have looked at including some mentioned earlier in this threads such as primera are losing money atm.
Most retail these days is at best running on about 2% net profit margin, once you take into account rising rents and upwards pressure on wages from national living wage over the next few years most bike shops will be facing losing money. Many, many bike shops will be closing in the next few years. Sales of bikes and parts and accessories have always subsidised workshops so hourly rates will have to increase significantly to be the core of a sustainable business. Cycling is very seasonal so unless it is a heavy commuter area such as London or Brighton etc there won't be enough turnover several months of the year to pay the bills. Many bikes are very cheap and parts cheap too so if Labour rates go too high in comparison people will just replace rather than repair.
We will have fewer shops, fewer clubs, fewer events and fewer cyclists.
We will have more small repair only businesses that are possibly seasonal or even part time so a reduction in convenience for many people.
The standard of repair work is often not good enough as the pay is so bad in the trade. Anyone decent with a brain and experience will leave the trade when they need to earn more I.e. they need to get their own house or start a family, then all that experience is lost.
Shops feel they cannot charge more than their local competitors even if they are better as people just look at the bottom line assuming the quality of work will be the same everywhere.
With the decline in the number of shops you can bet money that the mail order outfits will feel able to increase their margins as customers have nowhere local to go. Then they will reduce their range, introduce even more sub par own brand kit.
Speaking of which, can anyone spot what's wrong with this crown race?
I hear indexed steering is all the rage in the far east right now, and it's set to be the next big thing over here any time soon! 😆
What's to stop ANYONE selling online?