[Closed] Another road bike fit question

you seem to be sitting a long way back and your arms look uncomfortably locked?

If you assume Knee over pedal spindle it does look like you are too far back.

For info i am 6' and ride a 57cm. so i don't think the bike is too small, unless the geometry is odd?

But to be honest that doesn't look like a 60cm frame?

Which bit of it is 60cm?

the overall length/wheelbase 😉

I don't know, that's just what they sell it as......

I was planning on rotating the bars aft a bit to raise them up.

I'd shift your saddle forward and possibly have a slightly longer stem but bar that it doesn't look too far off to me.

I'm basically trying to get to the bottom of why I'm no faster on it than I am on my Mtb....

More pics:
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[quote=crosshair ]I'm basically trying to get to the bottom of why I'm no faster on it than I am on my Mtb....
You're not pedalling fast enough? I don't think it's anything to do with the minor variances in frame size you're talking about here.

I bet those aren't even road shoes and pedals 🙄

Lol! So why does everyone ride the stupid uncomfortable things then 😉

I cannot get access to my power on it 🙁

Interesting, on all 3 roadie shots you have straight arms and look uncomfortable, on the MTB you have bent arms and look much more at home. I think your reaching for the bars a bit so would reiterate what I said before but also potentially raise the bars a touch, maybe flip through stem?

Edit, also, and I can't tell without a pic of your leg at the bottom of the stroke, but if your saddle a touch high? If so that will help.

Painting your fence would be a useful start.

It looks like you are concentrating on balancing against the fence, and I'm not sure if you are really sitting in a true riding position, so the photo may be misleading.
For your height, a 60cm bike would normally be a bit big, if anything, I think, but that one doesn't look huge, so I don't know how Decathlon size their frames.
It looks like the bar ends are pointing skywards, so I would definitely try rotating them. Typical position would be to have the bottom of the drops parallel to the ground or pointing downwards a bit.
Can't see where your saddle is, and how you are sitting on it, so can't comment on that. See how you feel with the bars adjusted, get your saddle height right, and then try moving the saddle slightly fore and aft until you get something that works for you.

Thanks. I'll definitely have a look at flipping the stem and tipping the bars back. I moved the saddle back a fair bit when I first got it so might need to move it forward again.
Just found BTwins online calc- it said I needed a 57cm so it shouldn't really be too small?.

Was waiting for a fence comment 😀 Need to get that water pipe trenched in too 😉

Yep- was trying not to topple over so prob a bit tense but not a million miles away.

So it's not a fit question but a speed / technique question?

How are you measuring your speed?

I would get something to reliably measure your average, a garmin or smartphone app.
Do a baseline 20 mile ride on the mtb.
Pump up the tyres c 100 psi on the roadie and do the same route, get on the drops as much as possible, when you think you've put every bit of effort you have into peddling try a bit harder.
Repeat.

You will be faster than on the mtb and get faster still each time you ride. Having sad all that it's possibly not the best time of year to start.

Double post

Are you sure its a 60cm frame?

Frame looks smaller than 60cm to me as well.
Stem looks too short, which it will if it's not a 60.
Bars need rotating upwards.

You need to actually measure that frame.

The state if your lawn is shocking.

It's not a lawn! It's an old concrete yard that's weeded over 😉

I use a Garmin with wheel sensors on both. Yes I've auto-calibrated them both 🙂
I've got a local 20 miler I ride as a TT. Can average 18.6mph on the Scott and the best I've managed on the Triban is a few seconds quicker but still 18.6mph av.

I've also ridden HCC201b (a 'sporting' local TT course) a few times. Managed 17.8average for 52.32 on the Scott. First go on the Triban was 17.9 average for 52.21 and my latest effort was 18.1 average for 51.35.

So "you will be faster than on the Mtb" is only just the case and I find it a really unpleasant ride.

Where do I measure the frame?

Is it just a case of re-training my body to the new position ?

nkyDunc - Member
Are you sure its a 60cm frame?

+1

That looks more like a 54cm than 60cm if you are 6' to me.

Now you see why i bought the Wilier Escape and sold it 6 weeks later mate. PErsonally i felt i could make all the changes in the world to the bike, but short of turning it into a Hybrid, i wasn't going to like it in the slightest.

b twin bikes often have a sticker next to the bottle cage bosses on the seat tube which has all the sizes on that they make. the size of the bike is given by one of the numbers aligning with one of the bottle cage bolts.

I can't see the sticker on yours though.

It's normally measured from centre of bb to the top of seat tube, but those frames look like a 'compact' or semi compact geometry, so the '60cm' might be a theoretical old school equivalent. I can't see any geo. charts on the decathlon website either.

Hard to tell properly as you're leaning on a fence, but...

something looks wrong, your arms are locked straight!

Your bars are at funny angle, rotate them upwards.

Looks like your weight is really far back, try moving your saddle forward a bit, although you dont want to be supporting alot of weight with your arms.

Is your saddle the ight height? Looks like it mighgt be higher than on the mtb.

Don't flip your stem, this is a cop out for nodders with bad backs. Your back looks pretty straight so you'll be alright. Best bet is to rotate your pelvis, not enough people bother to do this and they end up with a dodgy fit (or at least that's what I reckon).

As mentioned above, have you pumped the tyres up to 100psi??

Frame looks tiny for a 60.. Rotate the bars so that the top of the bend is horizontal, they are rotated way too far forward. Reckon you'd really struggle to ride on the hoods with the bar and hoods in that position.

Why are your arms locked out? Can you not have a slight bend in the arms and lean a bit further forward? If not then bars probably need to come up a bit. A photo of you on the hoods would be good.

The seat forward and longer stem (maybe with a rise) sounds like a good plan too. Can we have a photo without you on the bike too? Wondering what the seat angle is like.

As people have said it doesn't look right. Your weight is really far back so pedaling must feel a bit odd, if anything I would say it was a bit small and not a 60cm.
Measure the tt and the stem and it'll give you a better idea of size.

i'm 6'1" - i ride a 60cm (road) frame.

if our bikes are the same size, i'll eat my socks.

I'm 6'2" and ride a 56cm road frame. They're all measured differently and all size up differently.

yep rotate bars UP!! then move levers down a bit to get nice flat area for hands so there is no v wedge between bars and lever should be flat across for comfort and stability

also hard to tell as cranks at 90 degrees but saddle could be too high. bike fitting people dont tend to run saddles quite so high now so that you can get more power from quads etc and so you can spin easier

i'm 6'1" - i ride a 60cm (road) frame.

if our bikes are the same size, i'll eat my socks.

Sums up most people's thoughts I think! 😀 Weight looks very far back over the road bike, and far back relative to pedals as just a starting point of lots of things which seem to suggest the frame is too small.

MTB looks a little better but still along the same lines. Get in touch with a decent fitter who can most likely improve both your MTB and road positions.

There are lots of general bike fitting comments and links on this previous [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/saddle-too-high-medial-knee-pain-with-pictures-on-bike ]STW thread[/url]... You will not solve this problem online as there are too many variables. A few static photos gives some rough data but is nothing compared to how your joints behave dynamically for a start. A bike fit is the way to go

P.S. Looks like a lot of sag on the MTB but it might just be a trick of the camera angle!

Thanks everyone. Tyres pumped as hard as they'll go with a hand-pump. Foot pump is on its way.
Really happy with my MTB fit so don't plan on changing anything there- I get off after 4 hours as fresh as when I got on.
I can't work out what's happened as I definitely sat on and tried a 60 in the shop and agreed to buy it but this one is a 57!!!!!!! What a plonker 🙁

I think a phone call to decathalon and a bike fit on a 60 is the way forward!!!

Sag on the MTB is around 15mm checked by Weeksy and I a fortnight ago- the back tyre is nearly flat in the pic which doesn't help 😉

I wouldnt bother with a bike fit, have a go yourself. Your fit will change since you've just started, no point shelling out £200 just yet. Also, what's to say the fitter will get it right?

Unless you've got a huge physical anomalie (i.e. one leg 2 inches shorter than the other) then at least try and do it yourself!

I can't work out what's happened as I definitely sat on and tried a 60 in the shop and agreed to buy it but this one is a 57!!!!!!!

Oh dear! 😳 Buying even roughly the right size will give you a head start in trying to get your fit right! 😉 If you still struggle with the various online information then a fit is definitely a big help and can be around £60-70 from a good reputation fitter such as those in the thread I linked previously.

Sag on the MTB is around 15mm

Not on the fork, you mean the rear shock surely. It looks as though the fork sag is half way through the travel! Even if it was 15mm sag on the fork, that would be a harsh ride even on an 80mm travel fork. As I said, could be a wired camera angle but some more air might be needed in the forks

Just keep tweaking things. Loads of quite sane advice here surprisingly. I'd say sort the bars and flip the stem as the first two parts.

Saddle is about an inch too far back. As other have said, move it forward till your knee is over the pedal spindle at 90 degrees. You should have slighly bent arms on the hoods, and this will be accomodated with correct saddle position. Bar height is personal, but reach is not. Bend over on the hoods and the elbow angle should be about 90-100 degrees. I don't think the frame is too small, but you may need a longer stem.

Post another picture when you've moved the saddle.

As other have said, move it forward till your knee is over the pedal spindle at 90 degrees

I can't work out what's happened as I definitely sat on and tried a 60 in the shop and agreed to buy it but this one is a 57!!!!!!! What a plonker

I think a phone call to decathalon and a bike fit on a 60 is the way forward!!!

definitely change it if you can - good luck

can't work out what's happened as I definitely sat on and tried a 60 in the shop and agreed to buy it but this one is a 57!!!!!!! What a plonker

Sometimes there's not a lot that can be said. didn't you notice it was smaller when you got on it ?

Better to use the balance trick though

I tend to agree. My test is to ride down the road just touching the drops with forefingers. You shouldn't be taking too much weight through your arms. Knee over pedal gets you close to that for average morphology and core strength. I also found that saddle too far back and high gives outside knee pain due to illio tibial band friction.

OP is overstretching his arms and will have a sore neck due to hunching. Saddle position comes first, then bars.

Weeksy - I did wonder but a few hours had elapsed and I was rushing and tearing around as usual 😀

My arms arn't quite as bad as that in motion- I was trying not to roll away.

no way that is a 60cm, have you measured it? centre of BB to top of seat tube or where the top tube meets the seat tube?

i'm 6ft 2 and ride a 57cm and it looks way bigger than that

Unless btwin have really weird sizing it's not a 60 and looks more likely a 54 than 57 but either way it's close enough to being the right size not to be effecting your av speed to much.

TBH is difficult to be constructive on the finer details if you can't work out what size bike you've bought.

Just goes to show there will always be a place for good lbs.

[quote=IanW ]Unless btwin have really weird sizing it's not a 60 and looks more likely a 54 than 57
There's so much variation in frame size/measurement that anything less than a full geometry chart is useless. I think one of my bikes is a 56 and I'm only 5'7",

no way that is a 60cm

Triban sizing is very odd, I've got a 63 and in reality it's close to my other 58cm road bikes, I've not figured out which bit of it is 63cms

What about the wheels? I'm a similar size and weight to you and on both my road bikes (an alu cube and alu cannondale) I had to tighten spokes as the wheels would flex into the brake pads. Climbing seated and pedalling more smoothly helped but 1/4 turn on the spokes also did the job. Perhaps that's robbing you of a little speed?

An MTB handpump would never get me to 100 p.s.i either, depending on the pump you might be a fair bit softer than that.

Saddle looks too high for starters. Looks a bit long for you though the bars need to get tilted up a little too.

Sort the above then post a new pic.

Ok, thanks to Decathalons no-nonsense approach and a rapidly couriered 60 from another shop, I took delivery of an actual 60cm Triban 5 this evening. Had a quick play with the fit in the shed and legs are straight when my heels are on the pedals, slightly bent when the balls of my feet are on there. Knees are above the spindle with cranks level and drops are pointing ever so slightly downwards. The levers probably need to go forward slightly but they're fine for riding on the hoods.

Can't wait to try it out now. If there's a break in the showers, I'll post a piccy....

Cool 😀 Let me know if you fancy a spin sometime.

Will do 😀 Got a footpump for an authentic 100psi too so if I'm still no faster, then there'll be a spanking new Triban 5 for sale 😉

60cm frame:
(Saddle now 15mm higher than this pic)
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I really don't have my arms as straight when I'm riding, I have no problem maintaining a level back and taking my hands off of the bars yet they look almost locked in the pics.

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I've been out for a quick 10 miler on it and even with a bona fide 100psi, it still doesn't go that fast lol
It is a lot lot better than the 57cm one though- much nicer position.

I think my whole system needs re-calibrating to road biking positioning. Hopefully, as I do more miles on it, I'll get faster. I still reckon on any given day- I'd be faster on my Mtb at the moment.

Not sure why everyone's tip-toeing around saying what they actually see here, You simply look too fat for a roadbike, stick to mtb or buy a £6k cervelo and full matching lycra. 😉
Walleater's shop will even lend you one for a large deposit til you bend it.

If you really are as fast on roads on your mtb it's far more likely you are simply uncomfortable riding a roadbike as fast as it can be pushed and holding back somewhere.

Hmm... Still looks a bit, er, hmm... (Not sure)

You're right though, it might be worth moving those brake levers down - so the lever is around vertical?

(Your neck will thank you when you take the peak off your helmet)

Agree, I'd move the levers down a bit, but its one of those personal things. Deff. loose the peak though. Don't give up on it, road bikes are quicker, but more importantly when you get used to it, loads more fun on the road than a mtb.

Thanks ck 😀

I don't think of myself as fat anymore but I'm certainly not a climber 😉

I'm not holding back at all- in fact, Ina vein attempt to access this mythical 20% advantage a road bike is said to give, I seem to be pushing harder on it than I ever did over the same roads on the Mtb.

To be honest, I only bought it because I like riding on the road and it feels wasteful to be wearing out bearings on a f/s Mtb and I do want to attempt a Sportive or two and have registered for ride London.

It just seems ludicrous to me that this machine designed for this very purpose isn't actually helping- there must be loads of half crippled people out there riding fashionable road bikes (not saying mine is one of those of course 😉 ) who would be better off on a Mtb or whatever else they fancy?

Anyway, I'm not going to give up, this is a lot comfier than the small one so hopefully I'll re-train my body over time.

I assume you're timing a short local road loop from the door for your comparison?
How exactly are you timing these rides?

There's no way the mtb (assuming off road tyres) is as quick, it's something you are (or are not) doing efficiently on the roadbike. Whether that be position, fit or something else.
No number of pics of you leaning against a fence is going to help you with this.

On the road you're basically only fighting against wind resistance,gravity and finding your most efficient position.

Don't worry though, if you stick with it long enough you're sure to figure it out at some point.

Now you can get on with that fence.

Are those wheels 700 ? It all looks wrong. I'm describes as looking like a gorilla on a moulton, but you look worse ! I'm not convinced those are 700c wheels...

Garmin 800 measured. I have a local 20 miler that I ride loads for training- average 18.6 on the Scott and a few seconds quicker but still 18.6 on the Triban.

There's a sporting local 15 mile TT course Hcc201b that I ride occasionally and I managed a 17.8mph in 52min32 on the Scott.
Best go on the Triban is 18.1mph for 51.35 but the wind was slightly more favourable.

I feel like I really drive the pedals up the hills on the Scott, utilising my entire core strength. I try and repeat on the Triban and I can't really engage with the bike in the same way- the muscles try, the lactic acid builds up but instead of roaring up the hill, the Triban just sucks the life out of me- it's really annoying 🙂

Kinda makes a little more sense now you've gone into more detail over how you ride the mtb, unless you're a sprinter roadbikes are more efficient once you find a comfortable aero position and you shouldn't really be using your core so much, as you describe throughout the whole, ride. ever looked at most competitive road racers upper bodies?

Sounds a pretty decent avg to maintain on knobbly mtb tyres (although as you mention TT I'd need to assume not much climbing)
Personally I can't get within 30sec of my road bike times on a 2.5min climb on a my mtb,

This makes a bit of sense to me. When I got my first roadie I tried to ride it in the same way as my MTB. This meat lots of body movement and grinding with a low cadence. It felt all wrong and I had no confidence in throwing the bike around. In time I learned to sit and spin more fad to work the legs not the core. I also got more used to the handing of the roadie so I could sprint and throw it if I needed to. All this meant that it took a while to get quicker but when I did it felt sooooo much better.

Also keep playing with your position, I suspect in time you'll end up with your bars a little lower and rotated forward a little more but this is something you can play with now you have the right dive bike!

Hcc201b has 774ft of climbing over 15 miles. A couple of short sharp blasts and a couple of shallow gruelers.

I've only ridden my local killer- Streatley Hill, once on the road bike and it was shameful! Lack of gearing saw me grinding up stood up at about 3mph compared to the 6mph I would spin up it on the Mtb.

Basically, I need to train from scratch, soak up some pain and grow some new muscles 😀

To be fair Lunge, I'd made a real effort thus year to increase my cadence a little from a low base, so most of my training was around 90rpm. I used to get accused of riding my Mtb like a road bike 😉

Wheels definitely 700C btw...

Managed to skillfully slot in a dry ride this afternoon and even had glorious sunshine for a few minutes. I took the all new bigger Triban to Streatley Hill to see what it was made of.
The whole ride was frustrating beyond belief. I was as fast as I've ever been in most places which isnt too bad considering my training has tailed off to just an hour per week but by god it felt tough going.

Streatley Hill itself was interesting. I felt pretty good at the bottom but despite being in Granny 1 (I must google it to see what it actually is), I soon completely ran out of power. I had to stay stood up or else I was going to grind to a halt. On top of that, the 100psi ice skating blade of a rear tyre kept spinning meaning I had to do a weird crouch to even go anywhere I literally knew I would fall over if I sat back down. To be honest, it makes a mockery of all that 'us Roadies are all Michelle Ferrari inspired Spinners who whizz everywhere at 120rpm whilst you stupid MTBers grind everywhere like your going backwards' bollocks because I'd have been spinning up there in Granny 3 with about 15bpm less showing on the HRM if I'd been on the MTB.

Another case in point was my favourite little 'Drag out of Hermitage' segment. I averaged 13.1mph up there today, as I have done on my Scott on three other occassions. The difference was though, the times on the Scott, i'd only needed 174bpm yet today it took 184bpm with a 190maximum to get the stupid Triban up there!!

Anyway, to my surprise, I still made it up Streatley hill in my second fastest of the 13 times I've ridden it this year which doesnt make sense.
The time I was faster on my Scott (2 months ago as I was peaking for The Beast) I again only needed 174bpm to get up there compared to 185bpm today.

I'm going to keep on with it because it makes sense to put the training miles on that rather than the Scott but I tell ya, these road bikes aint what they're cracked up to be!!!

Are you sure the 60cm you have been referring to is the frame size and not the wheel size. It looks like you have bought a kids bike

I'm only a couple of miles from "Drag out of Hermitage", and faffed for ages over bike fit.
Problems with my knees ended up with going to the Specialized Store in Newbury for a bike fit from their tame physio, which worked wonders. If you want to ride sometime to get a second opinion then let me know.

Ajc- lol It is the biggest Triban 5 they sell and according to their calculator- I should be riding a 57!!!!

Thanks Downshift, yeah would be good. Hopefully meeting up with 'MrBlobby' too although I tend to only get time to ride at half a days notice over the winter.

Streatley hill probably not the best place to compare road and mtb, it's rather steep for road bike gearing and most grind up it.

May be able to get out one lunchtime this week for a spin if you are keen.