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So after the Flare MAX the Rocket has had the lower, longer, slacker treatment. Looks very nice indeed.
I'm just waiting for the new Flare, 157mm is to much travel for me 🙂
I just hope they do the BFe in that stealth black colour
I think the Flare Max looks better balanced (maybe the bigger wheels help) but that's not bad at all. Shame the Rocket Max isn't getting the same treatment for a while yet, as I found the XL a tad short.
Looks good and can't wait to get a demo on one soon.Can definitely see it being my next bike.
Thought we weren't meant to mention this until tomorrow?
(Although I'm assuming Cy knew - and hoped - it would be leaked).
Oops, didn't realise that, I just went from the marketing email that came through, and clearly didn't read properly!
If someone wants to report my post and get it deleted, please do.
Blimmin heck, that looks slacker than a member of parliament, is it a DH frame?
I do wonder if the Flare is getting the Longshot treatment or if that is being kept more 'traditional'. The new Rocket is definitely more bike than I need (still loving my Rocket26 though) but if I had to buy a new bike now I'm not sure I want a 29er/plus FlareMax.
Low and slack as an owd oss. Nice but the wheels are a bit big for me.
How often do Rocket26 pop up?
They need to update the Solaris ffs 🙁
Come on Cy. British racing green with a bottle mount under the down tube. Some top trail miles and more dual-bikepack functionality. I'd literally come over to Calver and snap your arm off 🙂
Book marked!
Hopefully it's available in that nickel coloured paint?
I thought the Soul looked a bit odd with the new geometry, but in the full suss it looks fantastic
Any idea when the 2018 Flare is coming out?
I knew once I read in the email, buried in the text about 3/4 of the way down that cy asked us to keep it under wraps, that it immediately wouldn’t be!
So i AM the only person who hates this long stretched out look. That's ruined a beautiful bike. I thought the airdrop bike was somebody having fun with paint shop - maybe not looking at this.
Im sure its all progress and i cant wait for 2 years to all be riding choppers
(demo'd a rocket max last year before the 'you gotta ride one dude comments start)
Sorry im probably just old and grumpy but it just looks wrong but do we really need 170mm travel and that slack head angle to ride round trail centres, which is what the majority of the enduro (lol) riders will do with them.
"Any idea when the 2018 Flare is coming out?"
Never...Cy doesn't do annual refreshes/releases so the '2018 Flare' is already out.
I think the longer geo will grow on people. When you've been used to bikes of a certain proportion forever, then when something different comes along it will look a bit strange initially. But wind on a few years and current geo bikes will look short, stumpy and steep in comparison. I think 26" wheeled bikes look ridiculous now I'm used to the look of larger wheeled bikes.
Looking forward to the Longshot MAX Rocket, I'll be booking a test ride when that hits the streets. I'm not a particularly 'long' person, so not sure if the longer go will suit me or not. I test rode a conventional Rocket MAX and it felt pretty awesome as it was.
Yeah the aesthetic is changing so there is bound to be a period of adjustment while folk get used to the look, and I think the changes are even more pronounced on frames like Cotics’, which I think is a good thing as there’s a lot of blandness out there just now, especially with the latest carbon stuff from some of the big names which just leaves me cold.
And grumpiness is allowed, this is STW after all so where would we be without the odd moan.
I am a fan of long bikes but this one is a minger for various reasons, the bent seat tube being the worst culprit.
Pattern seems to be they're updating the geo when the current version is close to selling out.
If the next gen RocketMax also gets an increase in rear travel then I can see my future holding one of those as well as a new FlareMax. (Maybe 150-160mm if you're reading this Cy?)
New sizing makes a lot of sense for me, saves me having to squeeze onto a large with my stumpy legs just to get my desired 460mm-ish reach. People can now "size down" instead of sizing up if they prefer a shorter frame, no?
Interesting to see the chainstays on this new Rocket moving out to almost 440mm. I suspected it would only be a matter of time until 650b bikes started getting in on what 29ers have had to do from necessity.
I really like the look of the new one, picking up the bent seat tube is a bit weird when the majority of modern bikes have them.
The new model looks clean and classy to my eyes, the old one posted above looks clunky and homemade by comparison.
I think it looks great and at 6’5” big fan of bikes finally getting available in big enough sizes:) can’t wait for the 29ers 🙂
Looking forward to the Solaris update. Credit card poised if the update follows suit. I just hope there's a more exciting colour than Black and Silver. It's a toy not a white goods item.
Still not a fan of the water bottle mounts though. How do they work in real life? Would a full bottle not bend a traditional cage, especially as the bikes designed for some raduro ?
I use a side loading bottle cage (the Speccy Zee2 SWAT compatible one). Just remember to get a left hand loading one for right hand loading (it's upside down, so switched around). Never lost a bottle yet. Good cages.
I did find a pic of a baby blue one on a German website earlier but it seems to have disappeared.
When are they available?
Is there an XL size?
not a fan, don't know why. looks budget
I did find a pic of a baby blue one on a German website earlier but it seems to have disappeared.
Is that not the pic in OP?
When are they available?
They are available right now in limited numbers (if you're signed up to the newsletter). Order yours now and you'll get it next week if you snag the first one. If you don't, you can order you Rocket anyway and we will deliver it first week of April.
Is there an XL size?
Yes
Anyone who thinks that looks good really needs their eyes testing. It may ride well, but it aint no looker.
More photos: [url] http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/rocket#gallery [/url]
News story: [url] https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/london-bike-show-exclusive-get-a-first-look-at-cotics-3rd-generation-rocket/ [/url]
Discussion of mountain bike aesthetics always makes me laugh and usually shows what a conservative bunch we really are. If it looks different to everything else then it's minging, or gopping or some equally pointless adjective.
I think here are a lot of similarities between these LLS bikes and fatbikes (bear with me). A big part of the appeal of fatbikes (at least for me) is the way that you can just monster truck through stuff. They are so stable it feels as though they are almost impossible to crash. Of course the downside of those big heavy wheels, long chainstays etc is that they are not that easy to chuck about. Sound familiar?
Some of the other downsides of a fatbike (at least for me) are that, even with 5" tyres, a hardtail is still a hardtail and beats me up on rough ground. That undamped rebound can also be a handful. So, I've wondered for a while whether it would be possible to make a full-suss skinny tyred bike with e same monster truck feel as a fatbike. Maybe something like this (or more likely, for me, the FlareMax) is the answer.
Theres "different" and "new" and "challenging" then there is also just 'a bit ugly" This is not a pretty bike. Aesthetics, whilst often a matter of personal taste, usually combine some form of balance and flow.
So, I’ve wondered for a while whether it would be possible to make a full-suss skinny tyred bike with e same monster truck feel as a fatbike. Maybe something like this (or more likely, for me, the FlareMax) is the answer.
Probably. I tried both the Flare and Rocket (when I had them) with 26+ wheels and they were just ridiculously fast through stuff. It's not my cup of tea though, give me misery on a rock hard skinny tyred HT short 26er any day of the week 😆
edit- and stop putting the weight in ****ing pounds. All of the other dimensions are metric, FFS.
These to me are ugly.. the lines don't flow, the linkages are not compact and I can't quite work out the suspension action.
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The Rocket? Classic straight lines & compact linkage. Lovely.
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..but it's a completely subjective and a personal opinion.
Cy would enjoy the metric rant… but, realistically, most people still think of bike weight in lbs, don't they?
I usually love the look of Cotics.
Visually that looks rather challenged.
How burly are these? Are they more Bfe than Soul? I ended up with one of the first hen Bfes after talking to Cy as the soul would have been too soft for my weight and riding.
interesting no metric shocks!!
@wookster - the Soul has changed a lot from those earlier days… it would be a crude oversimplification, but, yeah, Rocket is more BFe, and Flare is more Soul… very generally.
@andybrad - 200x57 is as close as possible to a real "standard" for shocks as there is…glad this one still uses it (I have four shocks in that size, of very variable age and performance).
"200×57 is as close as possible to a real “standard” for shocks as there is…glad this one still uses it (I have four shocks in that size, of very variable age and performance)."
Yes, same as on my 2014 Spitfire (which I ordered due to the Rocket supply debacle back then). The Spitfire is a really great bike but seeing as everything would swap to the new Rocket bar the headset, needing a shim for my Reverb, a Boostinator for the rear hub, and a shorter stem (currently on a 50mm) it's quite dangerously tempting, especially in the Mercury CYM. Big birthday this summer as well!
The Soul is burley enough. It’s designed for big days out in the Peak District, so not a lightweight XC whippet by any measure. Similarly the Flare.
This and the Stanton both have straight headtubes - is this a new thing? Presuming its 1.5" and you use a step-down for the top headset?
"This and the Stanton both have straight headtubes – is this a new thing? Presuming its 1.5″ and you use a step-down for the top headset?"
It's a 44mm head tube - been around since the late '00s, think it started with Ti bikes. You use an internal headset on the top and an external on the bottom, for a tapered steerer. Or can use internal top and bottom for a 1 1/8" or external top and bottom for a 1.5" straight steerer. Makes more sense than a tapered head tube when you're working with steel.
Contents of Cy's newsletter (alluded to by the early posts above) can now be read here: [url] http://www.cotic.co.uk/news/2018/rocket3rdgeneration [/url]
Cheers guru. Just interested, not seen it before.
The new Rocket is *way* more bike than a lot of people - including me - need. I asked Cy if there's a Longshot Flare in the works, he said it's a while off but Paul has been riding a prototype for the last year (this new Rocket was in prototype for two years).
Very nice. I like the black
Theres “different” and “new” and “challenging” then there is also just ‘a bit ugly” This is not a pretty bike. Aesthetics, whilst often a matter of personal taste, usually combine some form of balance and flow.
Could you post pics of a couple of full-sus bikes you regard as aesthetically pleasing?
Yes, same as on my 2014 Spitfire (which I ordered due to the Rocket supply debacle back then). The Spitfire is a really great bike but seeing as everything would swap to the new Rocket bar the headset, needing a shim for my Reverb, a Boostinator for the rear hub, and a shorter stem (currently on a 50mm) it’s quite dangerously tempting, especially in the Mercury CYM. Big birthday this summer as well!
Already ordered one for this reason. I can use my DHX2 and it has the geometry that I figure is perfect based on riding my large Reign and Geometrons. I wanted 20mm more in the rearch and a degree off the head angle - so when I saw this - coming in at almost a grand less than a geometron......my reaction was
Ordered in raw with the stripes, because it has a classy motorsports/road cycling vibe in that finish. The main hate for this bike seems to be coming from the hardtail steel is real crowd funnily enough, those that like to bimble/clatter down trails at walking pace.
Have spotted a potential fly in the ointment in my plan - pivot through seat tube will limit dropper insertion and I have a 480mm long 170mm Reverb. In the Spitfire there's about 70mm between the top of the seat tube and the the start of the slidey bit of the dropper, so that means there's 205mm of post in the 430mm frame. Based on holding a tape measure against Cotic's blue L Rocket photo, it looks like there's about 205mm of max insertion depth on the medium (425mm seat tube). A close run thing!
Just run a lower profile seat.
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"So i AM the only person who hates this long stretched out look."
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It's not really a look, is it? It's about making the bikes ride better. Given the choice, I'd go for that over aethetics- particularily since in this case it often means "This is not what I'm used to".
I think it could have a shorter seat tube- the 2018 is only 8mm shorter in the XL model compared to last year's. With 170mm droppers I want the most slammed seat tube possible.
The coil option fair bumps the price up over the Xfusion (£380 extra) - it's a pity there isn't a cheaper coil optiion.
Which "cheaper" coil shock did you have in mind?
"I think it could have a shorter seat tube- the 2018 is only 8mm shorter in the XL model compared to last year’s. With 170mm droppers I want the most slammed seat tube possible".
+1, don't know why most manufacturers have such a hard time figuring this one out.
You need to consider the overall length of the dropper post, not just the amount it drops. Lowering the top of the seattube still doesn't necessarily mean you can insert a longer dropper further into the seatube without hitting the "bend" in it where the axle for the droplink passes through.
Ooh it'd be good if the next RocketMAX also stays with the 200x57 shock size.
(He says eyeing up his Fox X2)
You need to consider the overall length of the dropper post, not just the amount it drops. Lowering the top of the seattube still doesn’t necessarily mean you can insert a longer dropper further into the seatube without hitting the “bend” in it where the axle for the droplink passes through.
Fair point hadn't thought of that.
Which “cheaper” coil shock did you have in mind?
I might not be up to date with coil shock prices but is there not a RS or Fox coil option that's simpler and less expensive than the CC?
At ~£1500 with the Xfusion it's a good price point and comparable with the Shan #5, the coil CC option which would blow away the Shan bumps the Rocket up beyond my reach
That new Rocket looks very very nice!
The main hate for this bike seems to be coming from the hardtail steel is real crowd funnily enough, those that like to bimble/clatter down trails at walking pace.
That describes me pretty well, but I quite like these new Cotics. Probably the FlareMax more than this rocket, but these long slack bikes also appeal to us cowards you know 🙂
At ~£1500 with the Xfusion it’s a good price point and comparable with the Shan #5, the coil CC option which would blow away the Shan bumps the Rocket up beyond my reach
Purchase the Xfusion equipped model, save and then purchase a 200x57 Kage or a secondhand RC4. Or buy it without the shock for 1399 and pick up a vivid for about 280 from Bike-Discount.De - that will save you about 200 quid on the Cane Creek https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/rock-shox-vivid-r2c-coil-mid-reb-mid-tune-without-spring-525544
That new Rocket looks very very nice!
The more I look at it the more I like it. Great blend of form and function. And a really nice blue colour.
rossburton
The new Rocket is *way* more bike than a lot of people – including me – need. I asked Cy if there’s a Longshot Flare in the works, he said it’s a while off but Paul has been riding a prototype for the last year (this new Rocket was in prototype for two years).
This upsets me slightly, I really, really want a Flare but not the current one as it's to similar to my current bike.
I was thinking the same thing @Fathomer - i have been reading the recent Cotic announcements and thought this all looks great for a new Flare... Hope its not too long to come to fruition.
I agree v666ern. It’s just a little too much for me.
On the basis of "yay, but where's the Flare" after the recent launches I thought i'd ask Cotic if there was any news.
Paul replied with a refreshingly open and honest response - its in the works (as is the Rocket Max) and may land nearer the summer, although he did say there's no specific date set, so take that with a pinch of salt.
A medium for your perusal…
That does look really badass! So much room to move with the low BB, short seat tube and dropped top tube. And a bottle fits too!
Yup, for all those people saying that Large looks too long… the obvious answer to that is this Medium… looks so so right, even to my stuck in the past eyes.
looks so so right, even to my stuck in the past eyes.
That's because they now look like 26ers did 😉
I love that blue. Why? Cotic! Why? Too much temptation.
Do Cotic list the length of the straight part of the seat tube anywhere? I can’t seem to find it. I was looking at whether a 170mm reverb (48cm total length) would fit on a large (or a medium) flare max. I reckon I’d have 22cm of post inside the seat tube, but would the bottom of the post then hit the drop link ?
tomd1984
On the basis of “yay, but where’s the Flare” after the recent launches I thought i’d ask Cotic if there was any news.
Paul replied with a refreshingly open and honest response – its in the works (as is the Rocket Max) and may land nearer the summer, although he did say there’s no specific date set, so take that with a pinch of salt.
Ohhh, that's great news. I'm actually demoing the current Flare in a couple of weeks time so will do some questioning then.
Please report back, i was beginning to contemplate a Canyon Spectral, but if the Flare gets the same updates as the FlareMax and Rocket i'll happily wait 🙂 Enjoy the demo.
Good point @roverpig … I'll aim to get that info on the product pages for the new bikes next week.
Here's a small Rocket…
I asked Cy about this a few days ago. From his numbers on pivot position and housing, on the 2018 Rocket I calculated:
Small - 390 seat tube, 200mm max post insertion*
Medium - 425 seat tube, 235mm max post insertion*
Large - 460 seat tube, 270mm max post insertion*
XL - 495 seat tube, 295mm max post insertion*
*Not including hose routing on stealth droppers.
I suspect the numbers will be slightly but not massively different for the Flare Max.
They're quite different on the FlareMAX, as pivot position is different. I'll have a look…
Looking at the diagrams… FlareMAX has between 15-20mm less room for the post in the frame than the Rocket, depending on size. Will get actual figures on the site next week.
Thanks both. I'll wait fir the official numbers next week, but that sounds encouraging. Although I guess there is a fair bit of connecta-thingy on the bottom of a reverb.
You don't "have" to use a connectamjig though… you can go back to the same way of fitting as the old Reverbs.
I took the Connectamajig off my 170mm Reverb to get it to fit in my Spitfire - with this frame it was the position of the stealth port that was the issue as the seat tube bend is low down and the pivots are behind the seat tube. There’s a lot going on in that area on full-sus bikes!