http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/crown_estate_wheels_out_mountain_bike_trails_plan_1_2005493
Mjvande doesn't like us... 😆
Bicycles should not be allowed in any natural area. They are inanimate objects and have no rights. There is also no right to mountain bike. That was settled in federal court in 1994: http:mjvande.nfshost.commtb10.htm . It's dishonest of mountain bikers to say that they don't have access to trails closed to bikes. They have EXACTLY the same access as everyone else -- ON FOOT! Why isn't that good enough for mountain bikers? They are all capable of walking.... A favorite myth of mountain bikers is that mountain biking is no more harmful to wildlife, people, and the environment than hiking, and that science supports that view. Of course, it's not true. To settle the matter once and for all, I read all of the research they cited, and wrote a review of the research on mountain biking impacts (see http:mjvande.nfshost.comscb7.htm ). I found that of the seven studies they cited, (1) all were written by mountain bikers, and (2) in every case, the authors misinterpreted their own data, in order to come to the conclusion that they favored. They also studiously avoided mentioning another scientific study (Wisdom et al) which did not favor mountain biking, and came to the opposite conclusions. Those were all experimental studies. Two other studies (by White et al and by Jeff Marion) used a survey design, which is inherently incapable of answering that question (comparing hiking with mountain biking). I only mention them because mountain bikers often cite them, but scientifically, they are worthless. Mountain biking accelerates erosion, creates V-shaped ruts, kills small animals and plants on and next to the trail, drives wildlife and other trail users out of the area, and, worst of all, teaches kids that the rough treatment of nature is okay (it's NOT!). What's good about THAT? For more information: http:mjvande.nfshost.commtbfaq.htm .
Oh dear, I've possibly killed small animals..... 😯
lucien - MemberOh dear, I've possibly killed small animals.....
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toasted squirrel anyone?
Looks like a grey, therefore vermin, good kill.
This guy's been present for years on old newsgroups.
Get 'em telt Druidh
Oh the guilt, I best stop riding before I do any more damage and take up walking everywhere....
Michael J. Vandeman is a prime berk. He's been spouting the same stuff for years, to the same response. I used to bait him via email under a number of different personas when I was at Uni. Wasted hours of his time. 😀
They are several dozen items of food short of a rubbish picnic. They also dont seem to appreciate that federal law doesn't apply to scotland.
I bet he googles his name. With any luck, he'll pop up here in a few minutes....
I bet he googles his name. With any luck, he'll pop up here in a few minutes....
I'm amazed he never has.
Who - Mike Vandeman????
You'd think that with a name like Mike Vandeman it would be easy to find in google just by typing in "Mike Vandeman"
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At mike vandeman
ooooooOOOOOOOOOOooooooo
Someone's tired!
some old goat spouting ill informed bollocks about a subject he knows nothing about.
should fit in just fine around here...
what a tool ( mike vandeman) 😡
Mjvande sounds like Myfanwy. Could Mjvande be the only mountain bike hater in the village and look very similar to this?
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WARNING: It is probably impossible to understand my web page, if you own a car.
Or a mountain bike.
He's been at it - consistently and tediously - for over a decade.
WARNING: It is probably impossible to understand my web page, if you own a car.
Or a mountain bike.
🙄
If he showed up here would he stand a chance against our Big Hitters?
Well, that comment thread took an unexpected turn... Hope he doesn't fly over and saw me for daring to be pro-bike 
Last I heard, he's in the nick, for threatning some mountain bikers.
He sounds mentally disturbed.
just another conservation nazi
there's no shortage of the same attitude on here. it just finds different ways to manifest itself.
read the cairngorm thread etc
🙂
WARNING: It is probably impossible to understand my web page, if you own a car.
Or a mountain bike.
To be fair layout, writing style + witless badgering rantings make it impossible to understand if you own eyes or a brain.
For a self proclaimed academic hes none too bright.
MJ Vanderman really is an obsessive prize nudger.
trailmonkey - Memberjust another conservation nazi
there's no shortage of the same attitude on here. it just finds different ways to manifest itself.
read the cairngorm thread etc
godwins law?
Come on trail monkey - that cairngorm thread was a decent adult debate and led to me softening my attitude greatly on the subject.
good, then i'm sure you'll be able to affirm that there are lots of similar attitudes on here then.
see, we don't always disagree tj 😀
If he showed up here would he stand a chance against our Big Hitters?
I believe that he showed up on MTBR (USA forum) a few years ago and got completely taken apart before losing it and getting the ban-hammer.
Having moved to mountain biking from climbing/hiking in the last year, I must say I have never done as much damage to the environment as when I have been on foot in the hills. I can cycle the Tweed Valley straight from the house, but pump out tonnes of CO2 on my 300 mile round trips to the Highlands. After recent snowfall I may ditch my Kona Cindercone path wrecker and head to Fort William for a dander up Ben Nevis this weekend. I may add to my collection of road kill (pheasants, rabbits, pigeons, frogs, hopefully not deer)before strapping on a pair of crampons and permanently scraping the rock. I may also rip out quantities of turf with my ice axes as well as destroy vegetation whilst stamping out a belay ledge. Good day all round. Perhaps he may say that climbers can come into the hills but without climbing equipment.
This so called academic is completely biased, not living in the real world and sounds like a bit of an arse. If managed correctly there can be room for everyone in the countryside. I think to say that the freedom of the hills is for some but not for others is a bit elitist!!
Wow, I remember him from alt.rec.mountainbiking (I think), when Usenet was king. Well known back then for anti-MTB rantings.
TJ could have him.
Bicycles should not be allowed in any natural area. They are inanimate objects and have no rights.
replace bicycles with shoes, maps, bras, marsbars, anything else you have a dislike to and vanderman's argument still holds. vanderman doesn't like it so it should be banned.
I don't like bieber. can we ban bieber?
alt.rec.mountainbiking
Yup think that was it, seems so long ago.
if he creates areas of nature that are completely off limits to all people, how will he know if nature is succeding there?
Everything causes some negative effects, ultimately mountain bikes are more environmentally acceptable than MX bikes or quads on trails?
Anyway, I can ride anywhere I like because I pick up litter and don't skid.
double post
can we ban bieber?
yes please!
Passions:Art (especially Winslow Homer, Jose Orozco, Diego Rivera, Albert P. Ryder, Utamaro, A. Paul Weber), [b]bicycling[/b], biology (especially frogs and snakes), bookstores (especially Black Oak and Kinokuniya), English Literature (especially Emerson, John Steinbeck, and Walt Whitman), ham radio, hiking and camping
http://mjvande.nfshost.com/mjv1.htm
how can he hate us so much. sounds a little bit like hypocracy to me!
he's a mass of contradictions...
I hate cars though.
There was a write up in Dirt Magazine about the case.
There were some Mountain Bikers in an area where riding was banned. I think they were using the fire road trails to link up some singletrack - he would take it upon himself to block the riders path to try to stop them passing.
Because of the reaction he got he took to carrying a screwdriver to protet himself. 🙄
Then he was out with another couple of ramblers with a pruning knife to clear some trails (oh the irony).
He tried to block the biker with his arms out streched and "forgot" that he was carrying a knife in that hand. The rider was cut accross the chest.
They had two trials, the first was cancelled as one witness said he was well known as a booby trapping trail Nazi 😳
The second trial was a split decision in the jurty so were not able to decide that he started off "with intent" to cause injury so he just got GBH type conviction.
There was a write up in Dirt Magazine about the case.
There were some Mountain Bikers in an area where riding was banned. I think they were using the fire road trails to link up some singletrack - he would take it upon himself to block the riders path to try to stop them passing.
Because of the reaction he got he took to carrying a screwdriver to protet himself.
Then he was out with another couple of ramblers with a pruning knife to clear some trails (oh the irony).
He tried to block the biker with his arms out streched and "forgot" that he was carrying a knife in that hand. The rider was cut accross the chest.
They had two trials, the first was cancelled as one witness said he was well known as a booby trapping trail Nazi
The second trial was a split decision in the jurty so were not able to decide that he started off "with intent" to cause injury so he just got GBH type conviction.
From that link up there
Peeves:Air pollution, callousness towards wildlife, drugs, guns, invasion or destruction of wildlife habitat (especially by vehicles, such as ATVs, horses and burros, jetskis, mountain bikes, rafts, snowmobiles, and other ORVs), motor vehicles, road and highway construction, [b]violence[/b], waste (especially time
😕
There is probably no chance of convincing him of anything but you might "win" an argument with him (while pissing off everyone else, of course) by one of two tried and tested means:Point out where he is palpably wrong, and keep coming back to it however he wriggles and changes the subject, until he loses interest and starts insulting you.
Ridicule him mercilessly.
quoted from http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Mike_Vandeman
seems to be a working definition of a "big hitter" 😕
So what does he think about horses?
Most MTBers I know don't usually leave the contents of their bowels spread all over the path!
Our friend MJV has now popped up again and posted the same diatribe on a story about issues in the North Yorks Moors NP... 🙄
[url= http://www.ripongazette.co.uk/news/ripon/park_s_ancient_monuments_in_peril_from_the_hikers_and_bikers_1_4116210 ]Park’s ancient monuments in peril from the hikers and bikers[/url].
As an aside, I'm currently involved in a volunteer project to survey and record the prehistoric rock-art of the Rombalds/Ilkley Moor area, and we've already come across a couple of cup-marked rocks, both located on a corner between two paths, which show signs of having been ridden over by people either cutting the corner, or using them as kickers.
With my stone-hugger hat on, could I please just ask folks to think about what may be under their tyres, especially when riding in areas like Rombalds/Ilkley Moor which are rich in prehistoric remains. Cheers!
I used to love going up on t'moor looking for marked rocks. Could never decide if clearing bracken to look at rocks was bad or not (as a rule I didn't, I liked the secretive nature of no one else knowing they were there!)
@Boardinbob. That looks like a grey so no issues there mate. I think if you catch one it is illegal to release it back into the wild.
Since when has John Steinbeck been English literature?
This is from the Bradford Council
"Ilkley Moor Mountain Bike Protocol
1. Bradford Council Countryside and Rights of Way Service and the Mountain Bike Users who use Ilkley Moor share the following interests with regard to Ilkley Moor:
a. Minimise conflict between users.
b. Protect habitats and species – in particular ground nesting birds and wet heath vegetation communities.
c. Minimise trail erosion.
d. Protect the safety of all users.
e. Maintain ongoing communication between statutory and regulatory agencies and user groups.
f. Monitor the moorland environment and intervene when conflict or damage becomes unsustainable.
g. Recognise mountain biking as one of a range of activities (all of which have some impact on the moorland environment) currently conducted on the moor.
2. The Ilkley Moor Management Plan - which was written by Bradford Council and approved by Natural England – states:
As a registered urban common, Ilkley Moor falls under the Law of Property Act 1925, which states that vehicles are not permitted – bicycles are classed as vehicles. It is therefore, forbidden to ride mountain bikes or any other bicycle on the moor other than across Keighley Road. The Act does, however, state that this is prohibited “without lawful authority” from the landowner. The use of Ilkley Moor by mountain bikes is being monitored and consideration will be given to allowing it where routes can sustain such use and where conflict with other users is minimised. Where there is evidence that bicycles are causing unreasonable damage, they will be prohibited.
3. Bradford Council - as the landowner of Ilkley Moor - grants lawful authority for Mountain Bike Users to ride on the trails on Ilkley Moor, except for those trails that are identified by Bradford Council as unsuitable for passage by any user. Such trails will be clearly marked.
4. When riding on Ilkley Moor, Mountain Bike Users agree to abide by the International Mountain Biking Association (IMBA) UK Rules of the Trail.
5. Mountain Bike Users agree to give way to other moorland users to avoid conflict. See point 4of IMBA UK Rules of the Trail.
6. The follow locations are considered particularly vulnerable . Bradford Council intends to undertake remedial work to reinforce these trails by autumn 2010. In the meantime, Mountain Bike Users agree to treat these trails in a way that avoids or minimises damage (e.g. avoid riding on the trails in significantly wet conditions, avoid deviating from the trail).
a. The boardwalk on the Dick Hudson’s path
b. The trail from Trig Point to Thimble Stones
c. The trail on Crawshaw Moss (aka Red Bog)
7. Mountain Bike Users use the Moor at their own risk and no liability for injury to themselves or third parties will fall to the Council.
8. Creating obstacles or new trails on Ilkley Moor is prohibited.
9. Mountain Bike Users agree to actively promote this agreement.
10. Bradford Council, Natural England and Mountain Bike Users will continue ongoing communication through the Rombalds Moor Forum and Rombalds Moor Forum Steering Group.
In granting lawful authority, Bradford Council expects that
Mountain Bike Users will comply with this protocol."
Also, last I heard, Brad Council are allowing organised races on the moor. Giving authority to use the moor is one thing, I'm not convinced it's a good idea to be seen to be promoting MTB on the moor. Alot of it is very fragile and a lot of mtbers aren't very thoughtful in that respect.
meehaja - Member
I used to love going up on t'moor looking for marked rocks. Could never decide if clearing bracken to look at rocks was bad or not (as a rule I didn't, I liked the secretive nature of no one else knowing they were there!)
Aye, we carefully draped some bracken around the panel that had the most tyre tracks going over it in the hope that would keep people away from it in future! [/spoilsport]
And thanks for posting that again Paul - a useful reminder, though I'm sure all STWers know how to behave anyway. 🙂
The man is mental....on one hand he wants no human access to nature, but then it is OK to go walking! He rambles on about some 'probable' impacts that seem very tenuous; such as nesting animals killing and eating their young because of cyclists. Are walkers not scary then?
One of his best comments was that all mechanical access to nature should be banned, except some wheelchair access in extreme circumstances! So not only are you not allowed to enjoy the countryside via bike, if you have a debilitating illness that prevents you walking you're excluded as well!
He needs locking in a nut house!
Another classic of his is the psychology of a mountain biker....we're all liars, with an addiction who have self image issues! And don't forget lazy!
Baiting Vandermann is a dangerous pastime. He makes the STW "big hitters" look like sane occasional drop ins. He made me lose interest in a.r.mtb.
The other kook that used to cross post everything to alt.music.rush and film himself riding what he thought was really gnarly stuff made me laugh though. In a Team McCoy kind of way.
No one signed in to counter his rant yet?
Being bored and having googled the mentalist, countering his rants seems like a pretty impossible task because he manages to push the right buttons to make you look like a tit and support his view that we are all stupid thugs hell bent on knocking over walkers whilst killing cute fluffy mammals.
His post has been reomved from the web site as well. A few have responded to him, but he hasn't bitten (i.e someone pointed out that federal law doesn't apply to Scotland....).
"It is obvious that mountain biking is harmful to some wildlife and people. No one, even mountain bikers, tries to deny that."
The guy obviously hasn't talked to many mountain bikers. Personally, the only wildlife I've ever hurt is some ants or something else equally unavoidable. I've never caused harm to a person whilst mountain biking. Well, other than myself 😀
Ignorance is bliss, and this guy's in a blissful hot tub of his own shite.
Giantbike - I can't believe you have admitted to killing ants! You evil man.... 😉
Surely when walking he must have trod on ants, snails, slugs, spiders etc. Surely all forms of access to the countryside causes errosion etc - those foot paths he likes to trudge along didn't appear all on their own did they?
I do lots of activities including 4x4 offroading, hiking, mountain biking etc. everything has its place if done resposibly.
It does annoy me when walkers/ramblers moan about everybody apart from themselves.
Have they been up any popular mountain lately?? They have to build man made paths now on our iconic mountains due to the errosion from feet. Even when there are paths most still walk down the side of them!!!
TUT TUT TUT... 😈
