[Closed] Angleset vs offset shock bushing

There's no way in the world that you'll get anywhere near -2 degrees from offset bushes. If it were possible, you'd also be loosing 2 degrees off the seat angle and a huge amount from the bb height which is not ideal.

The headset will give you the 2 degree change and this will steepen the seat angle very slightly, which won't hurt. The BB will drop a tiny amount as well.

A

Angleset makes great things for "older" frames. I think it adds more positive features, compare to offset bushrings. Better climbing and descending. Lowering bb, adding a bit more reach and most importantly slackening head angle, making your more stable and make it feel a bit more modern on geometry.

I dont know what headtube you have on your transition. If it is tapered, superstarcomponents have pretty cheap 2 deg angleset to offer.

Not tried the off set bushingsbut had a -2 degree works slack set on my old nomad, it worked a treat and easy to install with a proper press to stop the cups rotating when fitting them. However the bearings where terrible and started to go in 3 months and the lower cup cut up so badly when removing it before selling the frame it was unusable again (not an issue if you're not planning on moving it from bike to bike)

I very much doubt anyone has tried both on the same bike

I did the bushings as they needed replacing and the options on 1 1/8 are limited and expensive

Thanks all 😀

Sounds like the headset is the way to go. Why do the Works bearings last so little time? If it's rubbish seals I can always pack full of grease before I install

Having almost been killed by dodgy superstar pads I don't let their stuff go anywhere near my bike!

Works version cheaper but upper bearing sounds rubbish quality

I very much doubt anyone has tried both on the same bike

What forks are you running? Bandit will cope with 160's which would slacken the head angle and give you a bit more travel up front. I ran mine with lyriks for a bit.

Why do the Works bearings last so little time? If it's rubbish seals I can always pack full of grease before I install

I think they just use poor quality bearings. My mate had a slack set and had a similar experience, although his last 6 months before getting really graunchy. I'd assume they are standard size bearings so I'd just replace them with better quality ones when the originals die. I'm always wary off packing bearings with loads of grease because it just holds the crap that ingresses on the bearing increasing wear

Works angleset here as well on my 'dh' bike for 2 years and haven't had to replace the bearings as I did the same as SSStu above.

Didn't think the bearings looked well sealed so re-used the Hope headset top cap and crown race from the headset that was being replaced.

I asked Works about that and they reckoned there was two approaches to headset bearing protection. One (and theirs) water is going to get in so if it does ensure that it can also get out rather than (in their opinion) Two, seal it from water but if some does get in then there is no way for it to get back out.

I know which one I prefer and it's one of the few things that I think Hope do well - making well sealed headsets.

I've got a 2 degree works Angleset AND offset bushes on my grapil. Works really well for me.

Head angle hovering around 64 degrees, prob just over.

Superstar do decent value angle slackening headsets.

I've done bushes and a headset on the same bike too. Started with bushes as cheap, then swapped to headset when they (and rather conveniently, my headset) needed replaced. The seat angle change from using bushes is easily fixed by nudging your saddle forward a tad. The dropped BB height was nice in the corners.
From the headset you get a increase in wheelbase and it doesn't mess with the rear suspension (not an issue for me). Slight decrease in reach might not work for some

tbh both solutions worked well for me

Good shout on the top cover Stu, worth looking into cheers.

-2 headset from superstar cheaper than the works one

I have a Hope headset now so easy to swap the top cover over. Wonder if the Hope bearings will fit too?

I also have both - Syntace Variospin headset which gives +/- 1.5deg, and the offset bushings. Works well for me on a Liteville 301.

Thanks for the top cover advice Stu! Any advice on crown races and lower seals, can you get them separately?

My Hope crown race & seal has ended up on the bike with the Works headset and vice versa! I trust Hope seals - I like what Works do apart from seals!

Junkyard - lazarus

I very much doubt anyone has tried both on the same bike

I have, though not all combinations... I always just end up with everything fitted though, never ridden a bike that I didn't think improved.

I think if I had the choice of only one I'd go headset, it's got more impact and it's a bit less bodgey-feeling. Some designers put a lot of thought into that linkage...

Stu is spot on too, the Works headsets use cane creek bearings, perfectly decent quality but the headset itself isn't sealed and the Works top cup seems to gather more water than most designs too. I've always just considered it an irritation and replaced bearings as need be but I'll try that Hope cap

Fwiw I just fitted a reach increase headset and offset bushings to my bandit 27.5 and I'm really liking it. It's noticeably more confidence inducing downhill and still climbs just as well. I did move the saddle forward slightly too.

It's got a 150 pike on and as far as I can measure the head angle is closer to 65 than 66

I fitted offset bushes to my Orange Alpine and then after a year I whacked in a Works -1 headset and I prefer it now. At the time I couldn't get a -2 for my bike but would probably have fitted that instead. Currently measured at 63.5 degrees and loving it.

Tom KP

So looking in more detail I'm not sure I can do the -2 deg thing.

Bandit has ZS44 upper and ZS49 lower cups. I'm not keen to jack up the front end too much so I'm looking for ZS49 lower with either ZS44 or EC44 upper to fit a tapered steerer. Don't think Works do a headset to fit that?

I tried offset bushings, they bound and made horrendous noises.

I am now running a Slackeriser headset -2° and it is mint.

2013 Saracen Ariel 162

So after a bit more research I gather ZS style headsets need to be replaced by EC style in order to achieve the angle reduction.

This will jack up the front end by about 10mm- should I reduce fork travel by 10mm to compensate or will everything work out fine?

With a -2 deg headset you lose stack height, lower the BB and steepen the seat angle. Lengthening the fork by 10mm or switching to an external lower headset will cancel out those effects so you just get a -2.4 deg net change in head angle.

It would be better, and easier to remove any stem spacers under the stem, or invert or replace the stem.

Thanks both- I have 10mm of spacers under the stem so easy to adjust. I was more worried about raising BB height and slackening SA. Now reassured I don't have to worry about that 🙂

My Bandit 29er has a bigger fork, angleset and one offset bushing. Transitions are pretty low as standard, so you might not want offset bushings unless going with a higher fork.

One thing I found is the shock bush bolt at the moving end is a coarse thread and difficult to get properly tight. As a result, the offset bush I put there (a brass one) got mashed by the bolt thread on the narrow side. So I would go for a stainless one or just one at the other end.

The SS angleset is as EC upper but ZS lower.
The increase in stack should be offset by the slacker HA.

If you wanted to change the HA but keep everything else as close as possible I expect you'd need to increase fork travel (brings bottom of headtube back up to where it is with the standard HA) & reduce stem spacers (lowers stem & bars back down to where it is with ZS headset).

I am going to be putting a -2degree in my Bandit 27.5 but it's already running 160mm forks so I'll hopefully end up with it being somewhere back to where it was designed to be with 140mm forks in terms of SA, BB height, reach etc.

My Bandit is a 44 / 56 tapered headset though so not sure if options are different.

Reading the thread with interest...after a few years without a full suss and a ready supply of decent 26er parts sitting around doing nothing, I picked up a nice Bandit 26 2012 (pre 142mm rear) fitted with offset bushes from Pinkbike and I'm in process of building it up.

Forks will be 140mm travel adjust Revs. But my steerer is quite short with just a 5mm below the stem.

I too was thinking of fitting a 2 deg angleset headset and losing the offset bushing, but will I get a headset that will add no more than 5mm to the stack height?

How much change to HA would the offset bushes generate and bb drop? How does the bike ride with these changes? And how does this compare to the 2 deg head headset?

A question on sizing and stem length. I'm 5'11", long in the body so chose a large and thinking of a 70mm stem with 740mm Rental Fathers 20mm rise? Anybody like to make a comment

Finally, thinking of trying a 1 x 11 setup. How does 34 11-46 sound on 26er with 2.35 tyres?

Thanks all

I too was thinking of fitting a 2 deg angleset headset and losing the offset bushing, but will I get a headset that will add no more than 5mm to the stack height?

Sadly not.

Thanks for the response Chief. Any chance of a 1 or 1.5 degree version with low stack height?

I'm not up to speed with all the headset standards, the lower has a cup that sits below the head tube. Any chance of getting one that sits within?

Ta

I've put a pair of offset bushings on my Blur LTc, which is notoriously steep at the front. That gets me -1* at the maximum setting.

I've been thinking about trying an angleset, but haven't researched which size fits as yet. Anyone any idea?

Can't answer about offset bushings but some good info in here? already.

Sizing sounds about right. The M 2014 Bandit has 419 reach and came with a 60mm stem. They were a bit longer than previous years though so going a bit longer in the stem will help and the L is a reasonable amount longer anyway.

My bandit is an M with a 50mm stem. I'm 5'6 and a half. With my reach increase headset its probably around 423 taking the 150mm fork into account. Its Ok but on the short side for modern bikes. Rode some 435 mm reach bikes recently which felt better sizing wise

As a matter of interest. How much would stack height would a 2 deg headset add? I can find a 30mm stack height stem for example which then gives me 15mm to play with? Thanks

15mm if this one fits:

http://www.workscomponents.co.uk/20-degree-ec44-ec44---to-suit-tapered-steerer-tube-1136-p.asp

Hi Chief.

I think my headset is ZS44/EC49 (from Transition web page " Tapered 1.5” 49.6mm ID Lower Cup / 1-1/8” 44mm ID Upper Cup".)

I've emailed WorksComonents with same question, but thanks for the advice....found some decent stems with 30mm stack height so this should be doable. I'll feedback if I get it done

This one then:

http://www.workscomponents.co.uk/20-degree-ec44-ec49---to-suit-tapered-steerer-tube-355-p.asp

You'll need to find out the stack height of your current headset, both upper and lower cups and compare. Might just manage it!

If your lower EC cup already has a 14mm+ stack then it looks like you'd be fine.

Thought it worth sharing some feedback...

I fitted a -2deg Works with ZS lower and IS upper cups. Removing a 5mm stem spacer so the stack height stayed the same.

Bike now corners much better, at both lower and higher speeds. Still climbs well, although perhaps the odd extra pedal strike (might've just been the conditions). No change on steep technical climbs, although the front is a bit easier to lift if I yank the bars. Overall I'm really pleased 🙂

The lower Works cup is weather sealed via a rubber gasket on the crown race but the top cap has no sealing. As suggested earlier in the thread I reused the Hope top cap, which does have a rubber seal and works perfectly.

Only other learning point is that knocking out a lower headset cup whilst wearing flip flops isn't the best idea - ouch!

I have used the offset bushing on a santa cruz bronson but was considering using an offset headset. Assuming the same lower stack height (within 2mm) would a 1 degree headset drop the bb by the same as 1 degree offset bushing? Some of the posts suggest it would be less?