[Closed] Am I the only Luddite still using tubes on MTB's ?

Yup. Tubeless for over 10 years.

tubeless on my good mountainbike ad hoping I don't have to put my ice tyres on. tubes on the tandem as I change tyres depending what we are doing on it. Everyday riding / trail centrtes and offroad touring require different tyres

A track pump has always worked for me Iain. Having said that, I'm not a regular tyre swapper. Once I've found something I like I'm more likely to just keep it on.

I have a mate who is still in the dark ages. We often wait for him to mend his punctures. Not always but most of the time.

Nope.

Tubes work just fine. In TLR wheels and tyres.

26er, tubes, fixed seat post, 3x9. I'm surprised my Soul is even rideable.

Thought about updating. CBA.

I don't know anyone who rides tubeless.

No

No

I don't know anyone who rides tubeless.

Nope, the Luddite movement, Tubed division, is alive and well with a significant membership.

If I have to use tyre sealant, and round here when the farmers are trimming the hawthorn hedges then yes I do have to, I prefer it inside tubes rather than all over the garage.

If there is any conceivable way I can run a bike tubeless I will. Unless, like TJ states you regularly swap tyres why wouldn't you? If you fit and forget until they're bald its a no brainer.

Tubes all the way for me...can't be bother with the faff. A few mates have tried them and rave about them but they've also had several attempts to get them sorted. Been out on rides and they don't appear to have fewer flats than tubed riders, so I'm not convinced that the effort would be worth it for me.

I havent yet converted, but I am under pressure to.

One of the owners of my LBS, who rides hundred of kms off-road every month, and on-road every day, has never converted.

Hmmm, not just me then.. interesting...

Will have a look at some online guides (I do remember that viral YouTube clip !) and maybe try on the new bike seeing as all I need for that one is probably sealant.

I still use tubes,I've got a set of T/L wheels Stans Crest rims & I've used them a few times but I'm wary of getting a puncture with them as I can't get a tube in them without nicking the tube so they're just expensive ornaments really 😯

Luddite here.

Jonnystorm - I have seen so many tubeless setups fail out on the trails. usually because they are running too low pressures IMO and when they do they are an awful faff to sort.

Even on the bike I run tubeless I still run 30psi front 35 rear as anything less squirms all over the place and feels awful to me

Hawthorn hedging however would make me run everthing tubeless

I bet there's still a few million people still riding 26 inch tubed bikes with 3x9 drive trains and no dropper posts, wide bars or Enduro colorways. And most of them are loving it.

I went tubeless in Nov for first time ever. I've not punctured since and both my MTBs are now tubeless. I guess that makes me a convert

I hope to try tubeless on my 29er and fat wheelsets this year and have tubeless ready tyres for both, but so far, never done it. 👿

I'm on tubes, punctures have never been an issue

When they burp the answer is to stick a tube in, so if you have received to carry tubes in the event of failure then what have you really gained?

I was unlucky enough to puncture the back tyre on my BFe on a nail badly enough to need to patch it inside the first ride out tubeless so I just stuck a tube in it. The front is still ghetto choobless and holding air ok. My FS is tubed cos I can't be arsed to go tubeless.

So yes, but no. Meh.

I ride with tubes. Cant be bothered with the faff of going tubeless. I got 3 or 4 punctures last year, none of which bothered me. Im also happy running at 20 psi.

Even though my tyres are tubeless ready all my tubeless mates seem to end up at some point making a sticky mess of the ride.

I'm on tubes, punctures have never been an issue

When they burp the answer is to stick a tube in, so if you have received to carry tubes in the event of failure then what have you really gained?

This was me 7 years ago. Robin Seymour took the piss relentlessly for the the 3 years prior.

Then I got a hardtail with an Alfine and I didn't realise how it easy it was to remove so I went UST.

It's not about punctures, that's a side benefit. It's all about the lower pressures, increased grip and reduced rolling resistance. Not stupidly lower pressures where the tyre squirms mind.

UST is bombproof and when I did swap over tyres any latex I had added was dry. The newer systems reply on latex as the tyres are not UST thick and need it to seal properly so are messier and finickier (stans/Tubeless ready).

I've had 2 UST tyres blow off, pressures were stupidly low (and was on a narrow 19mm rim and I weigh 100kg) and it needed some spit to get them back on again and off I went. The only time I've failed, failed was with some american classic where the latex had dried and error had used normal rim tape - they had worked for a year before the gradual air loss made the pressure too low and it burped then needed inflating, but the latex had dried and the normal rim tape wasn't holding.

More grip and easier to cycle, why wouldn't you?

If one slathers an inner in KY jelly, does it reduce the frictional losses twixt the tube and tyre?

I bet there's still a few million people still riding 26 inch tubed bikes with 3x9 drive trains and no dropper posts, wide bars or Enduro colorways. And most of them are loving it.

😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

Some of my bikes have tubes, some are tubeless. Can't tell the difference except the tubeless ones sometimes go flat in the garage for no apparent reason.

I won't bother doing any more.

If one slathers an inner in KY jelly, does it reduce the frictional losses twixt the tube and tyre?

Not tried that, but talc works very well.

My one concession to modernity. Too many flailed hedgerows around here.

kBarton - Member

Tubes all the way for me...can't be bother with the faff.

obviously if your happy with tubes carry on. But honestly it isn't a faff once you've got the technique sorted. I can't remember the last time I had a puncture, saves a bit of weight, and how and were I ride I needed 40psi to avoid pinch flats 🙁 running high twenties now and my bikes feel so much better 😀

A thick luddite with thick inner tubes here, not had a puncture in years (slaps head for tempting fate)

Works well for me. I don't get burps or failures on the trail, but then I know what I am doing.

Only once ever saw sealant, having ridden over a big chunk of glass. It sealed itself before I had the chance to slow down and stop. Shortly after when I ran over another piece of glass having lost sealant already, that was the only time I ever needed a tube or to do anything to them on the trail. That was 7 years ago.

It made a huge difference to the sluggishness of the Patriot with its sticky tyres and thick tubes. Made it from a bit of a dog into an all day machine.

As a misty eyed follower of the heard I have been rather pleased with tubeless tyres for several years now, I haven't had a flat when out riding for at least three years... Before that I can't really remember but tubeless tyres have probably only let me down three times that I can remember, always due to 1/4"+ cuts that would have easily have cut a tube...

So Just how infrequent are flats for you tube loving luddites? One failure in 36 months between two bikes (4 wheels) using tubeless tyres sort of reinforces my faith in it TBH, but if you're all,doing better I suppose I would have to question the choice...

I tried and failed a couple of times on previous bikes with various ghetto methods. Finally done it semi properly on the current bike as it's got tubeless ready wheels and thought it was a shame not to have a go.

The main driver was getting a rear flat tyre every time I rode Mabie 3 years running. Although didn't really have an issue locally.

Current wheels went up with a coke bottle inflator piece of cake and since then I've had no problems, other than 3 faulty frames 2 snapped chains and a temperamental dropper. All in about 10 rides 😕

had 1 puncture with tubes riding in Morzine a few years back. that was an odd one, since it was just wheeling the bike those few paces between the top of Super Morzine gondola and the Zore chair.

1 puncture between 3 of us on the last trip there (year before last).

More than happy to remain a luddite with stats like that. It's not a no brainer.

[quote=cookeaa ]So Just how infrequent are flats for you tube loving luddites? One failure in 36 months between two bikes (4 wheels) using tubeless tyres sort of reinforces my faith in it TBH, but if you're all,doing better I suppose I would have to question the choice...My bikes/wheels are about 50:50 tubes and tubeless. The last time I had a puncture on a MTB was over a year ago on Skye and that was caused by riding waterbars with too low a pressure. As has been said, I don't see puncture resistance as the reason to be tubeless.

26
Tubes
Slime

No problems.

You're not alone. Alot of people still ride tubes. I've considered it but they don't seem to offer me any advantages. I don't suffer punctures and don't like riding particularly low pressures - I don't like the squidgy feeling, the draggy feeling and the horrible feeling of feeling rims bash against rocks. I prefer the wheel to feel firm under me so ride about 30 - 35psi, maybe a bit lower in the front. None of my riding mates ride tubeless and don't suffer alot of punctures either. Was on a Cotic demo day last year and someone was test riding a 650B+ Rocket Max. They were the only one that punctured and guess what, the sealant failed to seal it so they ended up putting tube it. Didn't seem to be a particularly nasty puncture or a split or anything.

I had a skills day a couple of years ago too and the instructor was an ex-DH racer and also didn't like running tubeless, again didn't like the squidgy feeling and got sick of them burping. Didn't seem to hold him back any.

I'm all for giving something a go, but there has to be a perceived benefit.

I have been riding my main mountain bikes tubeless since about 2004.

In that time I think I have only stuck a tube in half a dozen times, although I'm not the most frequent rider and I run sensible pressures but lower than with tubes.

Before tubeless I would on average pick up a puncture or more every ride from pinches or brambles/cut hedgerows.

Yes a tube change is quick but when the tyre and rim are slathered in mud or scrambled dog "egg" or its persisting down with rain and blowing a hooly then I'd frankly rather not.

Better tyres and beads probably help re pinch/snakebite but tubeless solves the other issues just fine as well as feeling better with a few psi less in.

I'm more out in the hills / trail centre oriented rather than Enduro/huck/downhill so your needs may vary.

Nope, I run tubes happily enough.

I've run tubeless in the past, some friends are tubeless- I'll no doubt be told I'm wrong, but on balance tubes were less hassle and more reliable than tubeless. I've had one pinch-flat in two years, it made such a mess of the rim that no tubeless system would have survived it.

Choobs TID 🙂 If it aint broke...

Luddites you say?
Where do I queue?

The last puncture I had was caused by ripping out a tread block: the tyre went flat in about half a second. I'm not sure tubeless would have performed any better. I'm in no hurry to upgrade.

the draggy feeling

That's part of the point. Tubeless is less draggy.

I am genuinely surprised how many of us luddites are here ! 45% of posters though a rather skewed question so probably not representative.

Also surprised at the lower pressures some are running tubed tyres at compared to mine. I am a little over 12 stone, so probably 13 in kit and camelbak. My 26 Soul is usually around 36 front/38 back and Anthem 27.5 a pound or so less, so around 35 front/36 rear. I very rarely get punctures but will drop pressures a little methinks.

So the answer to your question is no you are 1 of a whole group of Luddites . 😀

I don't know anyone who isn't tubeless, apart from the OP, but then I'm not a 58 year old IT manager who bimbles along canal towpaths. 😀

Hey nobeer, I'm not quite that old yet, I'm not in IT and there ain't no canals in my neck of the woods cos it's too high up. I am buying an Audi tho..... 😀

If your going to do it, save yourself a load of hassle and do it ghetto tubeless with a BMX tube. Goes up with a trackpump.

It's not you I was referring to Iain!

If your going to do it, save yourself a load of hassle and do it ghetto tubeless with a BMX tube. Goes up with a trackpump.

He has tubeless ready rims, absolutely no need for ghetto, only some decent tubeless tape and the valves that came with the wheels. And it's not the strip that dictates how easy the tyres inflate, it's the how the tyres sit against the bead.

Edit - Iain, buy a bottle of the new stans pro goo, and some tape, and I'll come up and show you how to do it. As long as you don't make me ride Cathkin.....

Nope, tubes here.
I'll go tubeless when it works properly, ta.

Have tried it in the past, but found it a bit too faffy.

Going back to tubes. Can't be bothered with all the faff and mess of tubeless anymore.

Without having read all of this, or countless other, threads, no-one is saying that tubeless is a panacea to [b]all[/b] flats and punctures. It will work for thorns and nails, shards of glass but if you put a huge tear in the sidewall or rip half the carcase away then nothing is going to deal with that.

In day to day riding the biggest advantage to tubeless is that you can ride with lower pressures so get better traction and not bounce off everything because you have to run such a high pressure to avoid pinch flats and the like.

I've had precisely one puncture with tubeless - I was on the fat bike on the road and must have picked up a thorn or something. By the time I had stopped (I was doing about 50kph downhill at the time) the sealant had done it's job and I just had to reinflate the tyre which took less than two minutes. I really wouldn't have wanted to get the tyre off, replace the inner tube, etc.

Same weight as you Iain, I was running 26-28F/30-32R tubed in my Anthem, with Spesh grid tyres. Only had one puncture, a snake bit on the rear, but there was marks in the tube from other near misses. Similar pressures on my HT, maybe a bit lower on the front as the tough Vigilante is a stiff tyre and I want it gripping in the soft stuff. Now running tubeless on the new bike and enjoying the lower pressures 20F/25R and increased grip (different tyres so not direct comparison) .

Tubeless on monstercross
Tubeless on road
Never managed to mount the Tubeless MTB tyres on tubeless rims!

Of the above two, the cross tyres are normal wire bead, the road rims are non ust. Funny how the supposedly perfect tubeless tyre/ust rim combo didn't work!

Edit - Iain, buy a bottle of the new stans pro goo, and some tape, and I'll come up and show you how to do it. As long as you don't make me ride Cathkin.....

Cheers. I have some tape that came in the bag with the valves with the Anthem, will get back to you, ta.

Tubeless for MTBs and wouldn't go back. I do tend to tear sidewalls and then it's a tube having made sure that the glass/thorns etc that have been sealed are out. Generally there's quite a lot of sealant repaired punctures that you don't notice.

A mate who rides similarly is on tubes and can't see the point of the faff. He also doesn't have a latex splosh half way up his cellar wall and is running a front tyre from some point pre 1999 -a Tioga DH.

And it's not the strip that dictates how easy the tyres inflate, it's the how the tyres sit against the bead.

Hmm not sure I agree. A good tubeless strip holds the bead in the middle of the tyre before you inflate, just enough to stop enough air leaking to let you inflate easily. Tubeless strips allow me to inflate with a track pump.

I'll go tubeless when it works properly, ta.

It really does now. Tubeless ready tyres, correct rim strip - done.

He also doesn't have a latex splosh half way up his cellar wall

Nor do I!

As I already pointed out, I'm pretty much ambivalent on this but, other than the slightly messier procedure when changing tyres occasionally I'm not sure what "faff" folk are referring to when running tubeless.

Tubes,..I can't be arsed with faff. I running spesh grid and never have a problem with flats.

edit.

Faff= Getting covered in sealant whilst attempting trailside repair, Co2 inflators, repair worms, etc

Given tubeless tech has been around for a while now, I have to wonder why bikes are not being sold with tubeless installs when supplied with tubeless ready tyres, even even if it is "ghetto" tubeless.

Schwalbe and alike keep going on about the reduced rolling resistance of running tubeless, plus the virtual elimination of snakebite punctures and reduced odds odds of ride ending punctures from thorns etc., yet tubeless ready tyres are being supplied on new bikes with tubes installed.

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/tubeless-latex-butyl-tubes
http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/fat-bike-tubeless-vs-tubes
http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/schwalbe-one-tubeless-clincher

Faff= Getting covered in sealant whilst attempting trailside repair, Co2 inflators, repair worms, etc

Worms? They're there to prevent you having to remove the tyre - or even the wheel. How us that more "faff"? You mean it's just something new you'd have to learn.

I have to wonder why bikes are not being sold with tubeless installs when supplied with tubeless ready tyres

Tubes work for me. Don't get that many flats, and when I do it's a few minutes to fix, even if out.
I don't like the feel of low pressure, so don't need that advantage of tubeless.

I'm really surprised at how many are still on tubes. You'd have thought the performance advantages of lower pressures would have seeped through to riders.

But hey ho.

None of which has happened to me.

Not to you, almost certainly will happen to clumsy, hamfisted idiots..Like me.

Sealant, valves, tape, Co2 inflators, worms etc all cost money...I don't think it necessary for my riding.

Reggie - no performance advantage in lower pressures for me. I weigh 80kg and anything below 35 / 30 feels so horrible its unrideable to me. The tyre simply does not hold its shape and rolls around the rim. I do have a bike set up tubeless but I run the same pressures as I did with tubes.

It's not about getting or not getting punctures the self sealing quality of latex is just an added bonus. It is about weight and rolling resistance and if you can't notice a difference then tubeless is not for you. Personally I find it a vast improvement.

I'll go tubeless when it works properly, ta.

,..I can't be arsed with faff.

MIke - no weight loss with tubeless - sealant is the same weight as the tubes I use.

Scotroutes - I am with you on the faff factor - the one set I did went up really easily and that is without them being tubeless tyres.

motorbikes don't require tubes, so why do bicycles?

Worst case scenario, you need to occasionally add a bit of air to your tyres if leaving them in the garage for weeks at a time. And maybe carry a spare back up tube in case of emergencies. Hardly a killer.

Hearing numerous punctures literally self seal whilst on the fly is worth the faff alone. I also enjoy the weight saving and an increase in feedback

The tyre simply does not hold its shape and rolls around the rim.

That's what happens when you have too narrow rims for too big tyres. I'm on 2.35s and my rims are slight wider than usual, 28mm internal, and at 88kg I am happy to run 30. 25 works too off road but I get slight squirm on road corners.

Wider rims would sort that.

I went through a phase of thinking it was all a huge faff. That lasted a while, but I persevered. I feel like I've been [i]basically[/i] puncture and faff free for a few years now.

Not 100% - some tyres have got me pretty aggravated trying to get them to seat, I've had a couple of annoying punctures which have nearly-but-not-quite sealed where it'd have been less infuriating to have put a new tube in - but not far off.

I don't know whether I've gotten better at it, or whether things have improved gently. Either way, I'm glad I stuck with it.

MIke - no weight loss with tubeless - sealant is the same weight as the tubes I use.

The rim strip weighs more than standard rim tape for tubes, so you have to add that in if you are using it. But yes it is somewhat lighter too.

@tjagain - I'm 86Kg and run with 25psi on the front and 28psi on the rear and don't get any squirming - if anything they are still too high. It does depend on the tyre to some degree - just couldn't get on with Ardents despite all the lurve they get on here.

I think I may be especially sensitive to tyre squirm because of my past riding motorbikes where a squirming tyre usually means a puncture and you will be lucky not to fall off if its the front.

Only ever experienced squirming using 2.4 on 19mm rims. Which is to be expected.

2.4 on 30mm rims now is a different animal. 20f 25r and I'm a big unit. I use sensibly tough tyres now too, nothing under about 900g now, I want to hammer a rocky descent and trust the only thing between me and the geology.

The rim strip weighs more than standard rim tape for tubes, so you have to add that in if you are using it. But yes it is somewhat lighter too.

I use one wrap of stans tape with tubless compatible rims, probably weighs a few grams. My Nukeproof had tubes fitted from new, saved 120gms an end going tubless.

tubeless for ages now. (at least 10 years) I think I've had maybe 2 or 3 punctures since I changed, and think I've had to use a worm once which added maybe a minute onto inflating the tyre back up again after a thorn fest DH, and had to use a back up tube once as well. Normally run 2.35 minions at 20 front and 25 rear.

Wouldn't go back, and tyres and tubes and wot-not are anything I pay attention to at all any more.