You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Do you make it 10mph for some sections and 20 for others, like on the roads or do you put a blanket 15mph limit on all bridleways?
Or just ban E-mtb's from bridleways all together ? I know some people would flout the law just like they flout just every other one, but it would be a start. I'd let e-bikes on the road evolve with a bit more power to make them a usefull transport alternative.
taxi25
Or just ban E-mtb’s from bridleways all together ?
I do tend to forget, that on here we often have to deal with the "this is my baw and you're no playing" kinna attitude.
Where as up here, we just say aye, you want a game, jump in! 😆
I do tend to forget, that on here we often have to deal with the “this is my baw and you’re no playing” kinna attitude.
Where as up here, we just say aye, you want a game, jump in!
Scotland?
If the powers that be decide eBikes are "motorised vehicle" (which has happened in the US already) then you don't get to enjoy those lovely access rights on an eBike.
Just get a motorbike if you want to go that fast..
30mph uphill is surely just geex riding home with a flat battery?
250w continuous in that context means 250W RMS not peak.
RMS (root mean square) is the standard for deciding the achievable real output of something that’s by nature quite peaky. In rule of thumb land it’s .707 times Peak. Obviously you’d need to design in suitable heat management etc if you intended to operate for protracted periods, witness old 125’s that could basically do one hour or so hops at dual carriageway national speed limit zone friendly speeds between cooling off sessions.
Also, forget who touched on it, but actual speed limitations very much are coming to private motor vehicles over the next decade or so, closely followed by the autonomous vehicle. As my dev friends like to say, most transport problems exist in meatspace. Taking operators out of the picture solves a lot of problems.
I'm in favour of the speed limit on cycle paths solution since that applies to all people equally and is how the rest of our roads work. There's a chunk of the highway code that says "if there's no signposts assume it's 30mph" so just add "and if it's a dirt road not wide enough for a car assume 15mph" and you've covered all the roads ever with no signage changes. Then you allow mopeds on the cycle paths so long as they stick to the speed limit.
Enforcement is a problem but if we don't spend any money maintaining the cycle paths that problem solves itself, they become riddled with potholes, nature's speed bump.
People wanting more laws and less freedom because of ebikes, sad sad folk tbh
People wanting more laws and less freedom because of ebikes, sad sad folk tbh
That's not my version of freedom.
It just means an idiot can do what they want.
It's all pointless.
I see folk driving like ****ing idiots every day, never any cops around.
If you actually expect people to use these things for commuting, they'll still need a lid, 'some' degree of protection, even if it's just waterproofs, and you're still expecting them to mix it with cars. Those who are prepared to do all that are probably on scooters or bikes already. It's not really that hard or expensive to get a license.
It's been said that conflating scooters and ebikes is in some way missing the point, but in this application, they fulfill exactly the same job.
We’re 3 pages in and still no links to the tools or plug-ins or software updates to allow de-restriction ..
🥴🤷♂️
I'm sure you can use google.
“If you actually expect people to use these things for commuting, they’ll still need a lid, ‘some’ degree of protection, even if it’s just waterproofs, and you’re still expecting them to mix it with cars. Those who are prepared to do all that are probably on scooters or bikes already.”
The big difference between ebikes and scooters is that you can wear normal clothes to ride the former whilst the latter needs a lot more warmth to survive the windchill as you’re sitting there doing nothing.
With a normal bike you have to dress so you don’t melt going uphill but with an ebike you can choose to back off and let it do the work if you’re not in a massive hurry.
And then there’s the matter of insurance, tax, servicing, MOT, refuelling. Having done both the ebike is more convenient than the scooter.
It’s been said that conflating scooters and ebikes is in some way missing the point, but in this application, they fulfill exactly the same job.
No, they don't. You're still getting exercise on an e-bike. I wouldn't ever consider getting a moped or a motorbike.
Yes, at the current assistance limits. Of course you can choose the level of assistance, but somah is advocating upping the limits at which assistance stops ( I think ).
More convenient, ok, I get that.
Still get exercise, mkay. For you, and others here, sure, but you're already in to this aspect. Look at the average car journey distance in this country. An awful lot of people could already be getting more exercise. They don't.
Subscriber
If you actually expect people to use these things for commuting, they’ll still need a lid, ‘some’ degree of protection, even if it’s just waterproofs, and you’re still expecting them to mix it with cars. Those who are prepared to do all that are probably on scooters or bikes already. It’s not really that hard or expensive to get a license.
It’s been said that conflating scooters and ebikes is in some way missing the point, but in this application, they fulfill exactly the same job.Posted 6 hours ago
today I was chatting with a woman on an ebike as we were stopped at lights. New purchase to her for getting to work. Hadn't ridden a bike for 20 years. Used to use the bus
Oh - and still NEED a lid? when did that law get passed. I and the women I met today haven't been told
So that premise is wrong. They do not fufill the same role at all.
So that premise is wrong. They do not fufill the same role at all.
I can't store a motorbike in my kitchen either. Totally different.
Oh you can simon - its the best place. I have even done it in my attic flat. 😉
Of course you can choose the level of assistance, but somah is advocating upping the limits at which assistance stops ( I think ).
More convenient, ok, I get that.
Still get exercise, mkay.
Upping the limit at which the assistance stops doesn’t remove the need to pedal.
Still getting exercise, just going faster.
Nobody is talking about throttle control.
Sorry tj, in an application where ebikes attain speeds equivalent to town traffic - ie 25 or 30 mph under assistance was what I had in mind, but failed to communicate. Generally people will wear a lid, so what difference does it make if its a motorbike or mtb/road cycling lid? Of course there will always be outliers who won't wear them...
I don't have any issue with ebikes that comply with current regs and helmet use is a personal choice.
I'm generally in favour of electric vehicles and see electric motorbikes as part of a mobility solution going forward, however if you want to do a consistent 30mph or more get a licence, mot and insurance, and use the roads.
Cycle infrastructure in my part of the world at least attempts to separate cyclists and walkers and remove the speed differential, so if ebikes want to be able to mix it with traffic ( understandable ) should they be able to bring that speed differential to cycle infrastructure?
What on earth are you talking about? Some weird extra category of vehicle that does not exist? Then use this to create an arguement against similar vehicles?
“I see folk driving like **** idiots every day, never any cops around.”
By that logic, just because some people behave like idiots we might as well all behave like idiots
By that logic, just because some people behave like idiots we might as well all behave like idiots
Of course, you're correct, but I'm merely pointing out that there is **** all point in coming up with all sorts of new laws if there is absolutely no way of enforcing it, what a waste of time that would be.
TJ, clearly I'm not explaining myself properly. Somah advocates upping the assistance cut off threshold in the hope that more people will use ebikes to commute as a result, but doesn't see it necessary that they should be subject to additional regulation in that case. I would argue that we have sufficient legislation which covers motorbikes that is more than adequate and do not see the requirement of licensing, motorbike helmets etc as any significant impediment to take up of two wheeled transport for the purposes of commuting.
But a somone said above, in arguing about something that I am never likely to be in a position to really care about, so I'll quit while I'm behind.
I think there’s a reasonable argument to increase the assistance limit on ebikes to 20mph - I’m sure we’ve all managed to pedal at that speed on the flat at some point. And downhill an ebike (like a normal bike) can far exceed this.
I’ve noticed that my most hurried commutes use the least battery because even dragging 2.6” knobbly tyres I’ll pedal the bike beyond where the motor helps, so it only kicks in when the hills slow me down.
If you let them go to 30mph with assistance you’re dealing with far more kinetic energy and longer stopping distances and bike paths aren’t made for that.
By that logic, just because some people behave like idiots we might as well all behave like idiots
Of course, you’re correct, but I’m merely pointing out that there is **** all point in coming up with all sorts of new laws if there is absolutely no way of enforcing it, what a waste of time that would be.
Have to agree with that point .
Have we done e-road and e-gravel yet? I expect to see the same level of unrestricted variants simply due to the fact that moar aero = moar speed and therefore less assistance, so you up the assistance to a level where it becomes usable assistance.
I’ve noticed that my most hurried commutes use the least battery because even dragging 2.6” knobbly tyres I’ll pedal the bike beyond where the motor helps, so it only kicks in when the hills slow me down.
Same here. I’ve done 20 mile rides around here (Wirral) and only used 1 bar of battery, spending a lot of time around 17mph.
Also, I find for a lot of jumps etc, I’m above the assistance speed.
20mph would be ace.
I’m sure we’ve all managed to pedal at that speed on the flat at some point.
Yes but not for sustained periods and thats with a reasonable amount of "training" to support it.
20mph is fairly respectable roadie territory.
and bike paths aren’t made for that.
They arent really built for 20mph either.
Whilst there are no official limits there is some vague guidelines that 12mph should be the max on a shared path and 18mph seems to be the overall limit at which point you should think of getting on the road.
15mph seems a reasonable compromise at keeping it within what an okay cyclist can do although even then if you have a large number of people on shared paths doing 15mph it could get interesting.
Once you go beyond that it is a bit of a neither fish nor fowl situation between cyclist and moped territory.
Del
There is a legal framework for faster Ebikes used in some countries already
I'm surprised this thread has gone on so long and no one has mention unrestricted Ebikes and racing. And lots of races not having rules against it or actively turning a blind eye.
I’ve said this before, but I’ll jump in here with my 2p.
I can switch off the limiter on my ebike.
Doesn’t deliver any more power, but will comfortably go at whatever speed I’m able to pedal.
IMHO, it doesn’t improve the bike, for 3 main reasons.
1: it has a serious effect on battery life. Down from 35+miles to 14.
2: normal bike components aren’t really designed to be constantly ridden at 30mph. Forks/brakes/tyres etc. Not an issue to hit 30+ briefly down a hill, but totally different cruising at that speed.
3: if ridden unrestricted on a road or public bridleway etc, I imagine 30mph cruising would make a person quite conspicuous.
All of this is ignoring the legal aspects, I won’t go into those, they’ve been covered already.
I’m considering another ebike, im not gonna bother getting it chipped, that should tell you a lot, and unlike many, I actually do have plenty of space to use one legally on my own private property.