[Closed] Am I allowed a "de-restricted" e-boy thread?

Popcorn anyone?

(If it's derestricted it's illegal as it requires road registration/tax/insurance/license and off road is a mechanised vehicle so all restrictions apply as if he was in a Landrover)

My cousins husband was bragging how he’s derestricted his, and now drafts lorries. Was pretty pleased with himself that he can now draft said lorries at 45mph ‘without really trying’. He isn’t a fat, lazy ‘I don’t cycle cos it’s hard’ type either, one of his other hobbies is full pointy hat and bodycondom timetrailing...

Some came past me at an easy 30mph the other day. Scaring my GF out her flesh. I did chase and overtake

???? 30mph ???? overtake ???? fishy

I would have got annoyed about it in the past but I realised me being annoyed only affected me so I just ignore it. Far better stuff to get annoyed about - admittedly in my case it would probably a movie or show or music, but what the heck.

Downhill. No problem at all.

When it started to rise the other way however.

The KOM the whole segment is 25mph over 1.5 miles.

It’s a black and white issue, once derestricted, ebikes are no longer covered by the pedelec term that allows them on bridleways and are simple motor vehicles that require tax, insurance and regular testing. It’s also unenforceable in practice without speed traps, scrambler cops and VOSA check sites all over the countryside which is obviously not happening.

While the law is clear, this is clearly something that will never be enforced unless it comes up in specific cases where the Police already have an interest.

Definitely just waiting for the popcorn on this one...

Downhill. No problem at all.

so how do you know they are de-restricted? maybe they are just faster than you downhill?

Sadly it'll take one of these idiots to kill a pedestrian before anyone will care.
Guy locally in full body armour rides up and down the canal at 30mph. Trouble is the towpath is busy and very narrow in places especially under the bridges which are blind. He'll either hit someone or end up in the canal.

Who cares if someone overtakes you, if these idiots wanna tailgate lorries, hell mend em.

Move on.

so how do you know they are de-restricted? maybe they are just faster than you downhill?

Two reasons.

One: I overtook them downhill

Two: whilst riding alongside I asked him.

And besides you can tell they are much harder to keep up with.

Who cares if someone overtakes you, if these idiots wanna tailgate lorries, hell mend em.

Move on.

Well I'm competitive etc... But scared the girlfriend (ignorant get out of the way riding) was the issue but I'm not that bothered, they're always going to be there aren't they?

It's not the ebike element it's the deristricted element that is up for debate.

There's always dicks that are faster than you, whether powered or not, thwere's always dicks that'll squeeze past, c'est la vie, ain't ever gonna change, powered or not.

A much more common issue, both riding and running btw, is peoples complete ignorance to what's behind them, pedestrians and slower cyclists. The amount of folk that shit themselves when you ring the bell from even a good distance behind them is unreal.

De-restricted e-boy?

I'm pretty sure there's laws about that sort of thing.

Someone call the UCI... 😂 ^

What's an e-boy??

let them get on with it.

There’s always dicks that are faster than you, whether powered or not, thwere’s always dicks that’ll squeeze past, c’est la vie, ain’t ever gonna change, powered or not

Of course they will always be dicks, but this is giving dicks faster more powerful tools to be dicks to a greater extent and in for many in new areas. Many of these dicks would not take a small motorcycle onto a canal path but because they see their new toy as bike it's ok they can justify it.

I came in thinking there would be some tips and tricks and kits to buy...

I’m leaving with the popcorn.

Of course they will always be dicks, but this is giving dicks faster more powerful tools to be dicks to a greater extent and in for many in new areas. Many of these dicks would not take a small motorcycle onto a canal path but because they see their new toy as bike it’s ok they can justify it.

All the while we still have cars rolling off the production line that can pretty much all go over 100mph....

And I don't live near any canals.

Meh. 🙂

Saw one yesterday, looked similar to an old Solex, came barreling down the high street, no pedal assistance, wee LED light on the front, did an utterly ridiculous looking foot-out moto-x type u-turn and pulled up outside a shop. No plates.

Cyclist takes off helmet, unzips jacket revealing silver haired guy in suit- bellends everywhere it seems.

Of course they will always be dicks, but this is giving dicks faster more powerful tools to be dicks to a greater extent and in for many in new areas. Many of these dicks would not take a small motorcycle onto a canal path but because they see their new toy as bike it’s ok they can justify it.

Nails it.

Coming to trail centre near you soon:

I have already seen one at Cannock...

If I get an E bike it'll look like that! ^ Might as well go all in! 😀

All the while we still have cars rolling off the production line that can pretty much all go over 100mph….

Obviously troll due to poor argument...

If you say so! 🙂

Coming to trail centre near you soon:

Seen one like that at Glentress and Kinnoull Hill.

It's curious how someone makes an arbitrary law, 15.5mph and 250w(continuous), and then by default it becomes morally repugnant not to obey. 😆

Plenty of YouTube vids on that Bultaco ^^

Has to be said, it looks flipping awesome.

£4K

About the same price as an e-bike by a large cycle company, no?

An e-boy is my safe but derogatory term for an e-bike rider. Not seen an e-girl yet.

Riding fast not an issue. Riding fast with seemingly no skill and a Clarkson approach to cycling is.

But what ya gonna do?

It’s curious how someone makes an arbitrary law, 15.5mph and 250w(continuous), and then by default it becomes morally repugnant not to obey. 😆

It’s curious how someone makes an arbitrary decision, that it has pedals and says specialized on the side, and then by default it becomes morally ok for them not to obey. 😆

Where's the line? Bulcato? KTM Freeride-E? Honda CRF125 with a quiet pipe?

Since we are plucking numbers out of our arse, I believe 25mph and 750w should be the defacto moral standard! 😆

What’s an e-boy??

https://stayhipp.com/glossary/eboy/

Since we are plucking numbers out of our arse, I believe 25mph and 750w should be the defacto moral standard! 😆

That's a fag paper away from a moped (31mph) which needs licence, cbt, type approval, mot, tax, helmet, and insurance (and keeping off cycle infrastructure).

I believe we've already established that I'm not in favour of the arbitrary designations currently in usage.

I wholeheartedly assert that an entirely new set of arbitrary restrictions should, hence forth, be plucked straight out of our arses, given the new and delightful electric landscape in which we currently inhabit! 😆

From https://www.fullycharged.com/Bultaco-Brinco-Electric-Bike

Not suitable for road or public bridleway use this is the perfect version of the Brinco for those who have access to private tracks and trails they would like to tear along at over 60km/h (37mph).

It’s curious how someone makes an arbitrary law, 15.5mph and 250w(continuous), and then by default it becomes morally repugnant not to obey.

It's not totally arbitrary though, the point is to restrict them to speeds appropriate to the environments they'll be in, given the speeds of others on the trail.

14mph or 17mph would be perfectly fine too, but 25mph isn't

Would one be so kind as to share the detailed scientific report that surely must have been completed prior to the implementation of said designations? 😆

*Plucking from ones arse shall not be considered as a valid classification of science!

I believe we’ve already established that I’m not in favour of the arbitrary designations currently in usage.

Thing is, it’s not an arbitrary designation. It’s the current Law, and while as above I agree it’s basically impossible to enforce, you have the same amount of say in whether you think it applies or not as a road speed limit; requirement for third party insurance etc. It’s not a subject you get to just disagree with unless you’re happy to let the Police seize and destroy your bike and take other action against you personally in the unlikely event you actually get caught breaking the law. But in the mean time, people riding ebikes modified into electric motorbikes as if pedal cycle access applies to them risk ruining legal access for everyone (possibly not in Scotland and maybe Wales).

The genie is out of the bottle on this one unfortunately, even if Bosch, Shimano etc all managed to create a situation where it was impossible to modify their units there would be private imports and homebrew stuff apart from the people mistaking Bultaco and the rest for e-bikes. The earlier point about some people believing rules don’t apply to them is sadly the bottom line and the entire issue, including that it’s even possible to modify the bikes as easily as it is.

Not sure if you're being serious, but just in case, there's no science, that's why I said 'not totally arbitrary'...

The best we can probably do is everybody pluck something out of there arse and see if we have some sort of consensus as to what a reasonable speed for a motorised vehicle on a trail of mostly leg powered vehicles should be.

I'd guess the arse-plucking would unearth an answer not that far off 15mph.

In the days of yore, some also believed that the red flag act was a sensible law too. Laws by their very nature are not perpetual, indeed they are and should be transient, adjusted to accommodate the ever changing landscape that time and progress enforces upon us. 😆

Seriously though, I do think it's a discussion that should be opened up, as it's not really been had. There has just been restrictions put in place(and they are entirely arbitrary) and everyone is largely taking them as set and they are becoming some sort of moral guideline, which is nonsense.

Which is odd, because for one the 250w limit, continuous, is pointless(it's largely unmeasurable outside of factory conditions as far as I'm aware, and it's really got nothing to do with how much power you can put through it), it should be changed to 1000w peak to make it more transparent(which is largely were most are getting to anyhow mind, peak for most emtbs is probably somewhere in the 500-750w range at the minute, that'll stretch further in the future).

And the 15.5mph limit is entirely silly when it's a limit that non powered cyclists regularly exceed with ease. Why is that limit is set lower than people can cycle? That in itself is reminiscent of the red flag act kind of hysteria I mentioned above.

I would also argue that forcing bikes above the current limits to go through the type approval process is also standing in the way of what could be, if properly thought out, an absolute revolution in city/road transport.

I think this is an important reminder of the effect a mass shift from 4 to 2 wheels could potentially have if properly strategised over say 10/20years..

For me, speed ebikes, are something that could make that shift possible.

Fair enough, there’s a discussion to be had and outdated laws can and should be changed, but simply ignoring them because you disagree is a decision with potential consequences.

As to the power output in Watts being specified, it’s gotta be in something and watts are the right unit for the job. Without checking, I’m pretty sure power output ranges for all classes of vehicles are specified and in Watts with the exception of classes that are open ended where it is expected that road speeds will limit eventual use (I agree this is inconsistent).

Regarding potential fit rider unpowered speeds, that’s a can of worms - not least because as we all know road speed limits can be exceeded by such riders in some cases, but they are extremely unlikely to be prosecuted or caught. I think this is probably a point seen as a fudge factor with a hopeful assumption that riders who are sufficiently dedicated to become able to ride at such speed will be responsible. This is obviously rubbish as I can put my hand up and admit to riding irresponsibly at times and I’m not particularly fit or dedicated by athlete standards but could break road speed limits on a CX bike.

There’s got to be a limit though if the bikes will be used in public places and the speed will be available to whoever hops on regardless of experience. Maybe there’s a case for something like the moped/motorcycle CBT system making derestricted/more powerful bikes legal, but that opens up another huge can of worms unless we are going down the route of visible identification plates.

The Law is full of numbers for things that are a bit whack, like how fast a standard person can cross a road as a limit on minimum controlled crossing timings (which is also a pretty whack number as anyone with mobility issues might well struggle to make it in the specific time and therefore find roads they are unable to cross). This is probably one of those things. I guess there’s also a concern that since bicycles may be used in places where pedestrians are present they need to be limited to something fairly low...

One of the most common reasons for using an e-bike that I see on here is "faster is more fun" so I think it is inevitable that we'll see more derestricted bikes being used off road (as pointed out above, it would be very difficult to enforce the current limits).
So there will either be a conflict between derestricted riders and other cyclists travelling at very different speeds, or in the longer term there may be a general rise in trail centre speeds as increasing numbers of riders decide to "level up".

On the point of excepting ‘high powered’ ebikes from type approval, I see the argument regarding getting a paradigm shift to large numbers of single rider ebikes into circulation as regular transport in place of bigger vehicles, but the whole point of type approval is to ensure stuff going on the road in public isn’t dangerous to everyone anywhere near it (or no more dangerous than has been agreed is OK). That’s like lifting all Planning restrictions to solve the housing crisis. It might possibly work, but there would be a lot of collateral cost to pick up elsewhere.

There’s got to be a limit though if the bikes will be used in public places

Why does there though?

Cars aren't restricted to 70mph, and don't automatically restrict themselves to 60/40/30/20mph in the required zones.

Given the common standard is to speed limit roads rather than vehicles. It's sense we've already got the solution...

The Law is full of numbers for things that are a bit whack, like how fast a standard person can cross a road as a limit on minimum controlled crossing timings (which is also a pretty whack number as anyone with mobility issues might well struggle to make it in the specific time and therefore find roads they are unable to cross). This is probably one of those things. I guess there’s also a concern that since bicycles may be used in places where pedestrians are present they need to be limited to something fairly low…

A route I don't think we should go down, as mentioned I think that's what's standing in the way of a proper revolution to change how our roads look entirely.

vincienup

Subscriber
On the point of excepting ‘high powered’ ebikes from type approval, I see the argument regarding getting a paradigm shift to large numbers of single rider ebikes into circulation as regular transport in place of bigger vehicles, but the whole point of type approval is to ensure stuff going on the road in public isn’t dangerous to everyone anywhere near it (or no more dangerous than has been agreed is OK). That’s like lifting all Planning restrictions to solve the housing crisis. It might possibly work, but there would be a lot of collateral cost to pick up elsewhere.

I think your comparison is a little overly hysterical. But I'm all for doing a studies on the impact allow free reign on say 1000w(peak) 30mph machines would have.

As I mentioned above, these machines should be considered in transport strategy for the next 20 years. I don't really think they currently are.

The difference between Cars on roads with speed limits and de-restricted eBikes on trails is there aren't and there won't be speed limit signs on bridleways/trails.

So to manage the risk you limit the assisted speed of eBike.  It's not perfect but it's something.

The best we can probably do is everybody pluck something out of there arse and see if we have some sort of consensus as to what a reasonable speed for a motorised vehicle on a trail of mostly leg powered vehicles should be.

Ok, i’ll play..

1250w max output and 31mph max speed.

That is directly out of my arse, since I don’t own one and unlikely to own one.

All I would like to see is a similarity between e-bikes and mopeds. Capabilities are similar, capacities are similar, usage not so much because of location specific environments. But similarities are already being mooted one here and elsewhere.

If those proposals were adopted the caveat would be User Tests of capability and licensing and insurance all of which is not unreasonable.

The issues e-bike modification has is they’re seen as an easy way to flout any current law, and that the law is cloaked in unachievable prosecution(s) by a force I’ll equipped to monitor.

Whilst no one monitors or prosecutes, e-bikes will continue to be modified and manufacturers will continue to push the outputs and capabilities of the bikes.

Wheelie anyone?

🤷‍♂️

If you look at traffic flow, much of congestion is actually caused by the result of vehicles travelling at wildly different speeds not too many vehicles and not enough road as is usually assumed.

Allowing everything to travel as fast or slow as it liked would be a chaotic disaster, and is exactly why the industry is heading for what is termed ‘self driving cars’ although quite possibly the end of widespread private car ownership too. Allowing vehicles to operate at whatever speed their operator likes is something that has been shown to work in Autobahn, but in very specific circumstances. Bicycles are in a completely different category, simply because there is no practical way to prevent them being used by whoever can get in the saddle. That opens up huge issues all over the place that just don’t go away unless we are going down the route of clear registration marks at the very least and probably rider skills qualifications too and that inevitably leads us back to where we started.

Going fast is fun, we all get that but it’s also a problem in the wrong place. Restrictions on all ebikes is a pretty blunt tool, but in the present situation I can see why it’s the decision that’s been taken. It’s something I agree could change, but not without some form of price that in effect forces riders to self moderate and as electric motorbikes exist already and have the sort of things that would obviously be required for ebikes that were not limited I’m not entirely sure I see the point to be honest. About all you’d possibly get would be a slightly higher restriction without the changes, and people would simply ignore that too.

It's working to the lowest common denominator, which is a rubbish way of dealing with something.. Why not just put up speed limits?

I also wonder why people continue to conflate sub 1000w(peak) ebikes with mopeds(sub 4000w), and 125s(sub 11000w).

They aren't the same thing, the are much less powerful than the existing categories are designed for.

So they shouldn't have to work under the same rules, they are a different kettle of fish all together and should be considered differently. Conflating them is disingenuous, or just not understanding that they are an entirely different category.

vincienup

Subscriber
If you look at traffic flow, much of congestion is actually caused by the result of vehicles travelling at wildly different speeds not too many vehicles and not enough road as is usually assumed.

If you were to work towards say a 50% reduction of traffic(not impossible, look at the netherlands) That then gives you alot more scope for re-sculpting the existing road network in the future.

Allowing vehicles to operate at whatever speed their operator likes is something that has been shown to work in Autobahn

And Northern Territories, Australia, too.

😆

It’s working to the lowest common denominator, which is a rubbish way of dealing with something.. Why not just put up speed limits?

I'm not sure if you're trolling or just a bit simple but I'll bite.

Well... there are <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">32,000</span>km of bridleways in the UK.  How do you decide how fast you can go?  Do you make it 10mph for some sections and 20 for others, like on the roads or do you put a blanket 15mph limit on all bridleways?

If you extrapolate the rights of way to the rest of the EU (as UK legislation was harmonised with EU law EN15194 in April 2015) then the "just put up speed limit sign argument" starts to get a bit silly.

if you are including bridleways, then it's you that's making the argument silly.

Looking at the discussion now, I think an issue is that I had offroad e-bikes in mind when making my previous comments, in response to rOcKeTdOg commenting about the derestricted, full body armour, 30 mph canal towpath warrior. That's just ****ing irresponsible and if you would advocate that bikebouy I think you're mad.

If we are talking e-bikes on the road, that's a different question, the frame of reference isn't pedestrians and leg-power cyclists anymore.

And the 15.5mph limit is entirely silly when it’s a limit that non powered cyclists regularly exceed with ease. Why is that limit is set lower than people can cycle?

I think you are overrating the average cyclist.
A quick look gives an average speed in Copenhagen of 9.6mph.
15mph would generally require some training to achieve and maintain for any period of time. Not huge amounts of training but some.
Another thing to bear in mind is for shared infrastructure it is recommended for those people doing those speeds to use the road instead.

Fair do's I take that point.

I think Copenhagen style infrastructure here is wishful thinking though, so allowing bicycles to compete on a more level playing field on the roads would be wise. Outside of I guess London?, cycle infrastructure is token at best.

I certainly feel safer on the road on an ebike than I do on a normal bike.

I think ebikes, with some adjustment, could help allow bikes and cars to exist within the same overall infrastructure, as tbh, I've largely given up in the UK/Scotland implementing anything of use in regards to decent cycle infrastructure.

I'm all for ebikes taking over the roads, if that could happen, then the rules could change to suit the bikes more than the cars. That's a numbers game though.

That’s just ****ing irresponsible and if you would advocate that bikebouy I think you’re mad.

If we are talking e-bikes on the road, that’s a different question, the frame of reference isn’t pedestrians and leg-power cyclists anymore.

I am mad.

I really am.

I’m on here arguing about a two wheel thingy that I’m never going to own, well I say never but never might be tomorrow or in 20yrs time 🤷‍♂️

We all encounter “warriors” be it on the road or bridleway or in the playpark or scooter track, or indeed cycle lane.

S’pose the difference here is maybe you think everything “off-road” includes cycle paths and lanes, when in reality the User rarely differentiates and simply uses one or the other with the single thought process of “I want to get there, this is the path of least resistance”

I do think mopeds and e-bikes should be considered the “same thing” as currently they can propel unaided at a speed greater than human walking or running. Same as e-scooters.

They are just methods of transportation with the ability to navigate off and on road and deliver the user at a place different to the one they started at..

Sort of.

I would just change the law now before it all becomes far too confusing to the average human mind, and then Users could get used to “this does this, can go there and not there”

If you want an example of a warrior, I can quote myself on that front when I used to use Lea Valley Canal towpath from Canary Wharf to Walthamstow... I’d flat chat it as a training run on my CXer and ave speeds far greater than walking or running.

i think having an off road ebike = unrestricted and treated like a motorbike.

on road ebike = moped.

Cars aren’t restricted to 70mph, and don’t automatically restrict themselves to 60/40/30/20mph in the required zones.

Not yet, but we can only hope for such a fundamentally sensible thing to come to pass.

Subscriber
i think having an off road ebike = unrestricted and treated like a motorbike.

on road ebike = moped.

Not what the law says and that is not going to be very useful for the greening of transport

There is no issue at all with legal ebikes. NOne.

in some ways, this is inevitable rabbit hole that ebikes opened up.

"Human powered" devices are always fundamentally limited by the human powering them. Even if your Sir Braders, realistically you're not going to be tearing round at 50 mph on the back wheel down the highstreet due to an intrinsic lack of power. Once "assisted" bikes arrived, well, now we have shades of grey. What speed, power, or any other metric, is or is not acceptable or legal becomes pretty much entirely arbitrary. And of course, with all complex modern devices, the act of checking for compliance becomes tricky as well.

if you are including bridleways, then it’s you that’s making the argument silly.

If you are suggesting that eBikes will be limited to just trail centres then you're being very very silly.

Trail centre "speeding" probably should be the least of our concern access wise.  I'd be way more concerned if I was the likes of OpenMTB (as a UK example) about user conflict on bridleways. Imagine a group of de-restricted ebikers (at say 25MPH) flying up behind a bunch of horses on a Peak District bridleway.  It probably won't end well and some Land managers will use it as an excuse to downgrade access.

As for eBikes on the road, then crack on, un-restrict them. One less car and all that.  But don't be surprised when the powers that be start asking for them to be insured, maybe taxed and have number plates, like, you know, a scooter...

Once “assisted” bikes arrived, well, now we have shades of grey.

NO we don't. Its completely black and white. less than 250 w power, power assist cuts out at 15.5mph

How are you going to differentiate between an ebike for the road and one for off road? Where does a fat tyred CX bike sit for example? Is that restricted or not?

Where does a fat tyred CX bike sit for example? Is that restricted or not?

Can we just burn those things to clear the issue up? 😉

You're right though, gotta be one rule for all. I'm absolutely in favour of faster ebikes for utility transport (ie. mainly road), but not sure what the implications would be for off-road.

 less than 250 w power, power assist cuts out at 15.5mph

...until you plug a USB stick in it.

That and the fact you can buy derestricted electric moto-x bikes that have pedals....it gets very murky indeed.

Cha****ng - there is another category used in some european countries - its a 30 mph pedelec. You have to be 18 not 14 and I think helmets compulsory

Personally I think they should be able to do 20 mph to keep up better in urban traffic for the ones we have. trouble with that is you then are going much faster than non ebikes on bike paths

Subscriber

less than 250 w power, power assist cuts out at 15.5mph

…until you plug a USB stick in it.

That and the fact you can buy derestricted electric moto-x bikes that have pedals….it gets very murky indeed.

~Still black and white - both those things you mention are illegal.

I'd like to see an electric moto cross bike with pedals - lets see one please.

Come across those Bultacos at Dyfi and Rivington, didn't like seeing them at the latter as they're gonna damage the peat-based trails - but they weren't nearly as annoying as the motorbikes we had up there for a while after the fire. The noise those ****ers make is half the problem to me.

Cha****ng – there is another category used in some european countries – its a 30 mph pedelec. You have to be 18 not 14 and I think helmets compulsory

Yep, vaguely aware of those. I'd probably get one for my 20 mile journey into central Manc.

I’m on here arguing about a two wheel thingy that I’m never going to own, well I say never but never might be tomorrow or in 20yrs time 🤷‍♂️

Indeed, me too 🙂

And I would consider my own behaviour on bridleways as occasionally idiotic, despite my lack of electric motor, so I also realise the hypocrisy of my opinion on all of this.

I do think mopeds and e-bikes should be considered the “same thing” as currently they can propel unaided at a speed greater than human walking or running. Same as e-scooters.

Agree there too. So would that mean no such e-bikes on bridleways? I think BillOddie is spot on.

It is very tricky. The ideal would be e-bikes that can hit 30 mph or something on the road but are automatically restricted to <20mph when they venture into areas where motorised vehicles aren't allowed. Basically impossible to enforce of course, without some state monitored hybrid of Big Brother and Strava...

Also, it's a bit pathetic how pleased with themselves some fellas seem when they de-restrict their e-bikes.

Do we think upping the limiter to 20mph or so would negate the need for the majority of people doing it? Obviously some ****s would still be ****s, but there must be a genuine "problem" to be solved behind it?

I think Copenhagen style infrastructure here is wishful thinking though, so allowing bicycles to compete on a more level playing field on the roads would be wise. Outside of I guess London?, cycle infrastructure is token at best.

I certainly feel safer on the road on an ebike than I do on a normal bike.

I think ebikes, with some adjustment, could help allow bikes and cars to exist within the same overall infrastructure, as tbh, I’ve largely given up in the UK/Scotland implementing anything of use in regards to decent cycle infrastructure.

I’m all for ebikes taking over the roads, if that could happen, then the rules could change to suit the bikes more than the cars. That’s a numbers game though.

You've basically just made the case for motorbikes.

Which is fine, but I wouldn't want to share canal towpaths and bridleways with motorbikes, electric or otherwise.

15.5mph isn't entirely arbitrary, as other have said trying to average that, even with 23mm tyres on the road takes a modicum of effort and training. It's the average speed in most Sunday club runs!

And motor vehicles are speed restricted in a very similar way. On 2 wheels it's 31mph until you hit 17 (and yes, just like e-bikes you can exceed that long downhill with a tailwind etc).

tjagain
Its completely black and white. less than 250 w power

That bit isn't black and white at all, the law says nothing about peak power(edit: well it does stipulate 48v actually).

250w continuous, just means a motor that can run at 250w forever without overheating and breaking. (I'm pretty sure it's fairly easy to underrate motors too, think that standard will be more about verifying the lower level rather than the upper.)

It's says nothing about using a 250w rated motor, attaching a battery capable of making that motor output more power.

Example.

Peak power is defined by volts x amps. Given most batteries are 36v, the motors should be mostly be limited to 6.9volts. That pretty much isn't the case with any decent ebike.

example, if the turbo levo battery runs at 36v, these guys measure 660w continuous. So basically, that's running at 18v. All on a "250w" continuous rated motor.

I think most folk on here understand the difference between Warriors on Bridleways and just normal average Joe who doesn’t understand what one is.

And yet, at a guess (me included) are fairly capable of understanding others use of whatever “path” we are on and make rational decisions based on speed and moving/non-moving objects.

But we aren’t really like most people. We are different, and we’ve become blasé to that fact. The Law doesn’t differentiate, it’s applied across all humans.. it has to be.

Its well known that today we all face a crisis of impending doom on Climate Change and moving humans from one place to another is at the forefront of any political decisions.

If we are to accommodate logical thinking, then e-bikes become a solution rather than a problem and we might as well accommodate them and manage the current Law that is built as a restriction and bring that up to date.

Unrestricting is a fact, misuse of current Type Approval is a fact... why not accept it and change the type approval and Law that governs them.

🤷‍♂️

thisisnotaspoon

You’ve basically just made the case for motorbikes.

Perhaps, but I'm also arguing there's not realy any need for licensing, motorcycle helmets, number plates etc, for sub 1000w(peak) ebikes.

Tbh I'm all I'm really just arguing for is a slight increase in max speed from current laws. which is technically, 15.5+10%(supposedly, I'd need to verify that) or 17.05mph in the uk.