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Quite a price difference (c400). Single pivot v VPP of course.
Is the Heckler a much lesser frame?
I much prefer a vpp bike to a single pivot bike in general, though I haven't ridden a single pivot SC (got a SC vpp and another on the way) for a lot of years. (Super 8 dh bike, so not massively relevant)
Have you still not got your Nomad Tom?
My finger is still hovering over the buy button for one
I assume at some point they will release an Alu version, not sure how long after the carbon this normally takes
No 😥
The slightly frustrating thing is, it's at the shop, waiting to be sent to invisiframe (they tell me) but they can't get hold of them to let them know they are sending it for a kit.
Oh first world problems, why must you torment me so....
There's a really interesting group test in those two bikes - a Heckler with a top-end shock versus a Bronson with a bog standard one.
Same geometry, same weight, but one relying on the VPP, the other on the shock.
I have an alu Bronson. However, I started out wanting a Heckler do demoed that and also a SOLO at same time. I was so impressed by the VPP over the single pivot that I ended up opting for the bronson purely as it offered more travel for an upcoming lake garda trip.
Personally I find the VPP excellent compared to single pivot, which was also very good. I have pikes on front and fox ctd FIT kash on the back.
Honourablegeorge - do you have a link to that group test you mention?
Yes pls too
Julzm how do you get on with your alloy bronson?? Only ever seem to read about the carbon one
Hora, I'll think you'll find that that VPP designs are dangerously close to the world of 'fashion biking' Banshees... 😛
It is pretty amazing how well a good virtual pivot point type design can pedal with no shock platform, even out of the saddle.
What other bikes utelise a vpp?
Most intense
DW link, maestro (giant) intense, SC, transition (iirc) off the top of my head
A rose by any other name and all that...
Cheers, I thought maestro for sure.
Chiefguru my blur4x's ripped. Trail blazed before fashion sweetie.
Your sort followed looking for a trend.
What a bell
So what was the general consensus of the VPP Vs Jazzy shock test?
get one, then the other?
legend Im not into wasting money though.
julzm - Member
Honourablegeorge - do you have a link to that group test you mention?
Sorry, I proba bly expressed myself really badly there - it would be an interesting one to read, I meant, but I don't think anyone;s done it yet
you won't have either long enough to tell....
Completely different bikes (based on riding 2 x 26" hecklers and 26" LTc) the ride under VPP is just different, feels like the back is glued to the floor and getting it off the ground is a different approach. I find the VPP version a lot more efficient and much better for getting out the saddle and cranking/sprinting.
They are also 2 bikes you can turn up and demo at SC demo days. So before parting with cash go and ride both. I did a nomad and Blur back to back in the lakes a few years back thanks to Jungle and the nice guys at Biketreks (free cake too)
It'd be a new purchase. Buy new I keep for 2yrs as a rule as I hate losing money. Secondhand has the luxury of nothing to lose.
http://www.santacruzbicycles.co.uk/demo-dates/
Book yourself in and get the only opinion that really matters then!
I have ridden both (bronson/heckler) and they are to me very different, the vpp design gave far more traction and better pedalling manners. I would go for the bronson out the 2, I also rode the tallboy2 which I thought was brilliant
Have you just knocked off a bank, or something?
Brand new road bikes one week, followed by new Santa Cruz, the next? 😯
The alu bronson is excellent IMHO. Although haven't yet ridden the carbon version, there is only 1.5lbs of difference in frame weight. OH gets his carbon one this week hopefully so that may be the catalyst for me to sell the alu frame and get a carbon. Initially I didn't get a carbon because I was worried about breaking it in falls (currently sporting a broken elbow from a crash 12 days ago). Apparently very strong except if specific hits all concentrated in one place. Kinda convinced myself being stupid on that front since my carbon bars stand up to all sorts and not a mark on them.
On the VPP v single pivot, OH has a Five. Night and day between the pedalling efficiency for that versus VPP. would also say the same about giant maestro platform. My previous bike was a giant trance x1, an okay bike with great spec for the money; pedalled well but shit on descents with really steep head angle. On technical climbs didn't find it as well balanced as the bronson, back wheel would often spin out and front end lifted a lot. I found it impossible to fully weight both wheels at the same time although don't have this problem at all with the bronson.
Thaat's kind of my point - traction/pedal efficiency are all things that shocks like the CCDBA claim to deliver. Wondering how close to Bronson performance you can get on a Heckler with a shock upgrade.
Hmmm..interesting point. There has been a CCDBA CS sitting in my front room for the last two weeks awaiting fixture to a bronson.....unfortunately not my bronson, but the impending carbon one.
The orange five we have has the 2014 fox float 34 CTD FIT with trail adjust, kashmina coating etc. Massive difference between that and the VPP. I'm not sure a decent shock would make enough difference. I think the key thing about the VPP is that the centre of gravity moves, unlike a single pivot where all the forces go through the same place, hence the pedal bob or inefficiency.
Thaat's kind of my point - traction/pedal efficiency are all things that shocks like the CCDBA claim to deliver. Wondering how close to Bronson performance you can get on a Heckler with a shock upgrade.
Why not put a CCDBA CS on a VPP and have it all and more?
That's what i'm looking at doing with my TB Ltc.
What % faster is vpp then?
17.333%
Unless Hora is riding it then it's walking/pushing pace like everything else he minces on. 🙂
I recently bought an Alloy Solo frame. Had a Orange 5 and a Heckler previously. The VPP I find so much better on the technical climbs, seems to keep the rear wheel planted on the rough stuff. Just been riding round Torridon today, and the Solo climbed sections the Heckler and 5 used to struggle on cleaning without slipping and taking a dab.
If you can afford the extra for VPP, I would defo go for Bronson.
Cheeky little pick from this morn 😉
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Chipbutty, how's the Solo vs the other 2 when pointed down?
Singlespeedstu I DONT like Cannock. Stop stalking my posts. People differ in opinion.
Two pisstakes and you're all upset. 😆
Not quite sure what cannock has to do with anything though.
I'm sure you can mince anywhere not just the pebbly place. 😉
Aahh bless. You even edited your post. 😆
Why not put a CCDBA CS on a VPP and have it all and more?
There is probably a point where it's not adding much. The rear Fox CTD lost it's C/T/D on my LT, apart from the properly locked out climbing mode it was hard to tell when riding as it didn't really need it.
Where the CCDB may make a big difference in a bike that needs a great shock to work well the return may be a lot less on other frames and just relegate you to the "I would have been so much better if I had put another click of low speed unicorn damping on before that section"
Bronson and carbon
What other bikes utelise a vpp?
Specialized, Turner, Norco, Pivot, Lapierre etc.
Regarding the bikes, I wouldn't buy either but the Heckler is the least compromised by a marketing idea.
JCL do the 4 bar links etc out there work as VPP with the wheel movement etc?
As far as I know and can find this morning the only "true" vpp users are SC & Intense. The others may be similar but are not VPP.
the real suggestion though is before going on about compromised by marketing is to go and try both these bikes are they are some of the easiest to demo in the UK that I found.
Yeah anything that has an axle path that doesn't follow a single point arc (single pivot) is technically considered a VPP.
The difference is SC and Intense use counter rotating links which do alter axle path trajectories more than the bikes I mentioned. Whether that's a good or bad thing is up for debate!
Ultimately you're right. Riding is the best test.
Agree with JCL demo before you buy. Forums are just opinions.
Jsync,
The Solo feels very similar to the 5 it replaced when pointed downhill. I had a 140 Rev on the 5 also. The solo seems to turn a lot quicker, think this is due to the lower bb height. I had a few pedal strikes first few outings, but I've got used to it one and love the planted feeling.
Cheers
Chipbutty,
Sorry, just seen the reply, how rude. Thanks for the info, interesting that you compare the Solo to a 5. Also that you chose the Solo and not the Bronson.
Thanks,