[Closed] alps brakes for heavy users (203mm)- Saint, M4 or... ol SLX?

If you drag your brakes all the way down big mountains you'll cook any brakes.

I ride in the rockies and my old m4's with 180 rotors do ok for xc, I have saints on the downhill bike with 203 and have to be careful I don't get thrown from the bike at first

I love my (single pot) 2006 Magura Free Ride brakes in the Alps, been thee times with me, never gone through a set of pads (organic all the way), always had plenty of power and feel. 203 front, 185 rear. at Morzine then the White room and trail addiction this year.

also used old XT (765?) no issues with them either really, sintered, 1/2 a set of pads in a week at Les gets / Morzine.

Power first (so I feel confident that they are there). My old hayes mags were awesome for this.

My Formula Mega's can stop a 20+ stone idiot doing 30mph in next to no time.

Might be too much power for you!

I'm taking 2008 M4's with 203 rotors to the alps this year and hoping they'll do well. superstar kevlar pads in there too.
I'm about 75kg with kit.
Going for proper gnar DH too.

What about Tech V2's on 203mm floating rotors? Or even vented rotors if your a real brake dragger and the alpine descents are long ones.

I weigh 112kg and have fitted Saints with 203 rotors to my spicy, I tend to brake as late as possible too and they always stop me very quickly too quickly if I am not careful.

They are expensive but well worth it.

The new xtr with the ice rotors, if not then the saints.

IMO, as nice as the hopes are they just don't stand up too well to the heat, also they are not overly powerfull

I'm running Hope Tech V2's this year, on 203mm floating rotors. I'm 90kg just-out-the-shower, probably over 100kg in full guide's kit.

Brakes have been fantastic, really impressed by them. Great feel, loads of power, phenomenal pad life. No issues with heat whatsoever.

hora, you can try my (throw you over the bars) 200mm saints tomorrow.
they are pretty powerfull.

I have used avid codes and recent twin pot saints with 203 s without issue. 14 stone fat git

Ok its a date

FWIW, recent alp trips all completed with tech M4s, floating 203s back and front and organic pads.

Went through a few pads, terrible brake dragger, zero fade. They were faultless.

Would like a set of saints, they are a good price at the mo on CRC as well. Might get them for the new build. Hmmm.

Sell me the m4 setup then?

sorry sir, it's a new build, keeping current also, so am looking for another set of M4s also! 🙂

I also had a swizz at Merlin, as I am sure I got a cracking price on fancy braided M4s, rotors etc from wiggle but they seem awfully expensive now!

Kev

Saint's all the way for me, super reliable, easy to work on and so much power.

hope v2 for the win.. always 🙂

SLX with 203mm rotors were very powerful, even on my old 45lb bike.

Stock pads were great too.

Nobody picked up on his comment about sintered pads yet? 😕

Sintered pads are a BIG no no for the Alps. You'll cook your brakes much quicker.

You want some Kevlar or organic pads, they are softer yes so won't last as long, but don't transfer anywhere near as much heat into the brake itself, meaning less likelihood of boiling the brakes.

Dunno how heavy you are, but a 203 up front and 180 rear is fine even for DH I found, as long as your brakes are well bled, you use decent Kevlar pads, and they're not some superlight XC number, then you'll be fine.

Though for ultimate stopping power, Formula The One's are ridiculous!

Kev you are rich! I can only afford one bike!!!

Jedi I listen to your opinion. Bikeradars review didn't rate them. How do they perform for you? They look like bigger diameter single calipers?

i used them since they came out. i have vented front. i tried others on my botlerocket but the control i have with them is faultless.
they could stop the demo9 on a sixpense 🙂

Crcs price is 240 EX rotors 😮

mono 6 ti's with floating have been treating me well for the past 4 years in the alps, no fade and I've usually come home with enough pads left for the rest of the season.

I'm 14.5 Stone, been the Alpes a few times and drag my bakes. From what I've used (203 front, 180 rear)

Magura Marta but with Venti rotors, very impressed

Avid Codes also excellent.

Guy's I've rode with

Hope's, V2's, M4's and M6's, seem to have enough power but difficult to get consistance in setup and eat pads. I'm not a hope brake fan.

Hayes 9's - excellent for the money

Avids (7 9 ultimates etc), okay but do fade on longer downs

Formula's R1's - very good.

IMO

mboy, sintered pads shouldn't be an issue if you have decent brakes and a sensible rotor/rider-weight combination.

From what we've seen over the last 4 years, you can boil any brake with a 20-stone rider on a 160mm rotor.

On a sensible setup, the only brakes we see with consistent heat issues are Avid Juicies.

[url= http://www.whiteroomchalet.com/sum_mountain_bike_equipment_reviews.htm ]My full opinion on the V2's here.[/url]

On the v2's ok to use existing disco's adaptor (post fitting to post fitting calipers and disco's 203 rotors?

Anyone done this? My k24 formulas work fine with them

Just done a week out there with Saint 203 (front) and SLX 183mm (rear), on Hope floaters and they were spot on. One finger pretty much everywhere, even the steep stuff. Very impressed with the Saint in fact.

I have used black and gold m4 s with 180 rotors in the Alps and Whistler on a Gemini and then a Big Hit. I weigh 11 stone. They were not enough, either in terms of power nor resistance to overheating. I warped the rotors and glazed the pads. The same brakes with 200mm rotors were do-able but still had a tendency to overheat in the Alps but not in Whistler, presumably bc at Whistelr the trails features are designed to control some of your speed. If you weigh much more than 11st then M4 s are not going to be enough.

Can't comment on the other brakes.

mboy, sintered pads shouldn't be an issue if you have decent brakes and a sensible rotor/rider-weight combination.

Errr, if you had a 9 stone guy on a bike with 203mm Saints both ends, it wouldn't be an issue granted. But for more normally proportioned people, sintered pads are going to be disadvantageous in the Alps. I've done quite a number of weeks of riding in the Alps over the years, ridden with people of all shapes and sizes, on XC bikes to full on DH rigs. The few silly enough to run sintered pads all boiled their brakes soon enough!

Sintered pads are sold for wet/winter riding, hence they sell well in the UK. They're designed to last a lot longer and be more tolerant of harsh conditions, but they provide less friction and stopping power, as well as transferring more heat into the brake fluid of the brake than non metallic pads do.

Right tool for the job. Of course you can bodge it and get by, but if you're planning on doing something correctly in the first place you buy the right equipment before hand. Organic or Kevlar based pads are a much better option for Alpine riding, so seeing as pads aren't that expensive anyhow, why compromise?

Well I weigh probably 100kgs so its looking like Saints and organic.

I had the same question a few years back, got Saints - couldn't fault them. Rode the Megaavalanche with them, numerous Alps trips, never faded, never a problem. Can't recommend them enough.

Hora,

The hope tech v2s have their own rotor, this is because the piston is 25mm which is wider then tech m4 formula r1 etc.

On my dh bike, I run the tech v2 with vented rotors, they are rediculously powerfull and i have no issues with brake fade, and I'm 50% heavier then you. They are heavy though and the xtr brakes on my tranny stop me just as quick and are about 50% of the weight.

Saying that, the tech v2s are 3 years old, (whenever they bought out the tech levers) I've spent 3 weeks in the alps on them and many many uplift and push up dh day on them. THey have never been bled, and the feel has always been consistant. I'm also still on the same set of pads.

If you don't mind the weight then get the v2 over the saints, if you do mind the weight get the xtrs.

hora, existing adapters should be fine on the V2's, I used my old Hayes ones. I've also used the old Hayes / Superstar rotors from time to time (on my spare/lightweight wheels) without any issues, although as ianpinder says, they do have a pretty wide pad.

mboy, I guide full time in the Alps, never had any issues with sintered pads! They last a lot longer than organics, hence why I use them. On organic Hope pads now though, as they last a ridiculously long time anyway.

V2's for the win. Awesome power, fantastic modulation. Makes tight DH switchbacks in Cham and Finale an absolute joy.

Moto V2 vented. Never used anything like them ... modulation, stopping power, pad life are all way ahead of anything else I've used.

It's worth remembering that due to the amount Hora uses his brakes, he has them set up so that when you pull them they are off - let go and they are on. Saves him a lot of effort. As such, any brake system needs to be able to be converted to this reverse use.

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Where's the 'W', Odd Bod?

doubleyou?

I can give you first hand experience of the following:

2011 Codes
2011 Code R
2010 Formula The One
2008 Hope M2
2010 Saints

All with 180mm back and 200mm front.

Without a shadow of doubt, I will never go back from using the Saints, you compromise on the weight (I also run them on a Yeti 575 as well as a Demo 8) as they are certainly not the lightest but for my style of riding they are perfect. In that I mean I prefer a very on-off brake.

Although I rode some of the new (XT M785) trail brakes at Sea Otter and they were mustard !!!! Tempted to buy a set for my 575. Would be interested to see any first hand experience of these if anyone has them.

Hora

I'll have a set of Mono M4's for sale soon. Post mount front caliper so you can use whatever rotor you like with the right adapter and a 160 rear caliper, I think I might have a +20 adapter for the rear too. I have 180 and 160 disc's.

Email in profile if interested

b a c o n - how did the Formulas compare to the Saints, out of interest?

Spent my Pila weekend constantly jeypulling the brakes on my DH bike. The rotors are a nice golden syrop colour but never had any issues with fade or had any lack of power.

15-stone without the riding kit.

Cove Shocker DH - around the 40lb mark.

Avid Juicy Ultimate brake levers, Goodridge hoses, DOT 5.1 fluid, Code front calliper, Elixir rear calliper. Started on old sintered pads. These wore out and replaced with organic (Superstar Components). 185mm front rotor, 160mm rear rotor.

Set them up so the bite point was just in front of the grip so that I could 1-finger brake more easily.

I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to say how this set-up couldn't possibly have worked.

You're better off actually thinking about your braking rather than spending money over engineering a solution.

You're better off actually [s]thinking about your braking rather[/s] Rubing cheese on your nards than spending money [s]over engineering a solution[/s] on juicys.

IMHO

Just about the worst to bleed, overheat easily and poor lever feel. never had as many problems as I had with them. Hope, Shimano, HFX9 in that order of overall perfomance.

My formula the ones were proper pants. If you get a nice reliable pair then they seem ok. But mine over heated within 5 minutes went through brake pads at the same rate I go through cake, pulled to the bar, had no feel and were not that powerful.

Don't buy m4s if buy v2 motos for the (basically) same weight!

As for the 2012 xt,

If they are anything like the 2011 xtr, (I suspect exactly the same) then mine are so powerful I'm almost scared to touch them after I've been riding my other bikes with oth brakes. (except my v2s) awesome brakes.

I've owned all the brakes I've commented on too.

mk1fan - I killed a pair of Superstar organic pads in half a day of riding at Pila (mainly the freeride run to Aosta) in my Formula The Ones.

Did yours fare any better there? Wondering whether to blame pads or brakes... since my riding style is obviously beyond reproach

😉

There was something about the original Formula The Ones. I had a doggy set too. I was left utterly bemused at the rate they went through pads, couple with a catalogue of other issues.

I took a real gamble on a set of 2011 The One's, and they have been like chalk and cheese compared to the earlier brakes I had.

I'm still running the same set of pads in them after a whole winter, and 10 days in the Alps, including racing the Mega. 185mm rotors front & back & they are comfortably as powerful as my Tech V2's on my DH bike.

I'm tempted to get rid of them for another set.

As an aside point you can run the V2's with any normal rotor too, I had a discussion with the Hope guys. You just drop an X2 pad in the caliper (same size backing as the V2, just slightly less pad material) and it works fine. They suggested it would make the brake a bit less grabby, but not have any real world noticable effect on the overall power. I've not really noticed any difference in the power.

My Formulas are 2009 I think. They were fine in Morzine and the PdS but as soon as we got to Verbier and Pila (steeper and longer runs) they were eating a pair of pads almost every day.

I assumed it was the pad material just disintegrating because of the heat generated by the near-constant braking.

Did you get any better results with sintered pads HobNob? Early signs are encouraging (they lasted two days in Les Arcs and still have at least half the material).

I'm going to get my K24's rebled as I've discovered that one piston on the rear pushes more than the other (off-centred) - air pocket?

They were never the most powerful which looking atthe reviews looks 'odd'.

Pads? I don't mind if I go through a set a day- as long as the brakes work whilst I'm out there. So if soft material is the way to go to stop fade- I'm all ears! (Plus superstar/disco is cheaper).

chakaping - Member

mk1fan - I killed a pair of Superstar organic pads in half a day of riding at Pila (mainly the freeride run to Aosta) in my Formula The Ones.

Fitted them half way through a 3-day visit and did over 45kms of runs on them. Plenty of pad left in them when I left. Next outing for the bike is Cwmcarn in September.

Taking the Hustler to Cwmcarn and Morzine in August - with the same brake set-up.

chakaping - I tried every single pad manufacturer who made them for that brake at the time & none made any difference. Very strange but it did seem to be an issue that a lot of people suffered from (along with huge lever throw when the pads started wearing).

I just gave up & sold them on in the end.

I don't understand people's pad wear rate. I thought in les arcs i was going to chew through pads. Changed the rear after the 1st day as i'd had 5 months out them previous. Didn't change the front one's once and this was riding every day (red 10, black 8 the DH runs etc)

This was avid elixir

Pad wear seems to be more about bedding the pads in correctly than anything else.

Formulas Vs Saints

I always at least try to attempt to bleed my brakes myself if I get issues, sucessful 9 / 10 times. I could never seem to get the levers to feel solid on the Formulas. Plus when I used to take them to the LBS, they always used to mutter something under their breath when they saw the brakes, maybe we just didn't know the best method to bleed. I like the saints as they are just simple to maintain.

I'm also pretty heavy on my brakes.....a 2hr decent in Mammoth and zero fade. I really like them !

A friend has XTR trail with 180 front and rear. I've not tried them myself yet but they should arrive any day now. He went from Hope Tech M4. I currently have M4 front and X2 rear which are being transferred to my wife's bike.

He is a pretty heavy guy and rides pretty fast and loves them (hence me deciding to get them). Great price at bike-discount.de and the spare pad prices (watch the exchange rate/currency charge from your card provider - Post Office credit card is good).

I've gone for the XT 6 bolt Ice Tech rotors.

I also chatted with someone off here or bikeradar who had tried M4s, The Ones etc etc and weighed more than me (I weigh 100kgs) and rode the alps frequently and he rated XTR trail above everything else.

Mine worked out about £370 all in.

Will there be a revised Saint 2012 version soon?

See that's just it. I can't face paying those sort of prices. Are 370quid brakes really that much better than 140 K24's?

On forks- I couldn't pay 700 for a set of forks either. 350 max on forks.

I went out to the alps a few weeks ago with a new set of SLX brakes on 203mm rotors. At first I was a bit worried that these wouldn't match up to the performance of my 2007 Saints.

After a week of use I can confirm that they work just as well.

When you can get a complete set of brand new Oro K24s with rotors and mountings for £145, can't see any reason to spend more personally.

I'm just susceptible to bling. Hopefully it's a passing phase... But I do like to get my bling at a reduced price.

Another for Formula Oros but if you're heading to the Alps then bigger rotors are advisable

Ha! We all have our bike vices...mine is my CK rear wheel 🙂

Hope mono6 for me,they need to be set up right but when they are - wow. You can get a good deal second hand too. I use Superstar Kevlar pads & they're ace. I've no problems to report. Oh, Goodridge braided hose & 203mm floating discs. Bling! 😉

Update, from using XT's. Mister Dragger (heck I had a death grip on the rear basically all the time) - not once did they pump or fade.

With the soft Superstar pads = no sequel either. With sintered OEM's = Squeal.

Hope V2s with 203 rotors all round and *gasp* OEM sintered pads for the last few years in the Alps, never had an issue, including 5 runs down Pila's 11km DH in one day. Fantastic brakes.

Moto V2's here. On the bike bike, and the hardtail. Cant beat them iMHO.
Alps, US, and Canada have been ragged on long descents and not a moment of fade, 1 finger is all thats needed to become an instant 'over the bars' superman.

I'm 18stone by the way, and dont like to go slowly.

Hope 4 pots here (X4's). I was on the same holiday in the same group as Hora (although we didn't see much of him) and the rear pads were Superstars that I've had in for about six months. No brake fade or pump at all, and I still have loads of pad left both front and rear, whereas most others in our group had to change their pads, some more than once in 4 days.

16 Stone idiot + Hope Monos 203 f & 185 R + floating saw + Braided hoses + Sintered Pads = Super Bling and serious stopping power