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couldnt see this posted here yet so....
looks big!
As someone who loves climbing to the radio tower, to gauge my sustained power and fitness abilities (or lack of)...
Bring it on! 😈
Mmm, intrigued by this. From my post yesterday on the huge Zwift thread:
I see Eric Min posted a 10 mile ride with 3000′ of climbing in it, which isn’t insignificant. I can’t help but think it’ll be a bit shit though – an enormously long slog up, meaning no one’s there, and a stupid descent where you may as well just go and make a cup of tea. I find the descent of Fox Hill bad enough (although it did mean I could get off and get a towel yesterday), and the mountain’s even worse.
The ride Eric Min posted makes it shorter and shallower than Alpe d'Huez, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. How many people are really going to ride up hill for > an hour?
Only reason i'll be doing it is to prove i can and have done so. If i were doing an event specifically that needed lots of climbing i may do so... but it's more likely i'd go to Afan to climb instead 🙂
I'd ride uphill for an hour, i often do it on Bigring VR which has loads of HD films of alps passes. But i love hills and hate stuff like riding round the London map
How many people are really going to ride up hill for > an hour?
Me!!. I did Alpe D'Huez climb on elite e training the other day. About 1 hour 20 mins of climbing. Will be nice to get on a zwift road with no one on it.
It's ~1880 feet of climbing to the radio tower on the Mountain8 course which hits Strava cat2, so I hope this is going to be 3500+ feet.
Yep, bring it on. I see it more as a personal challenge rather than against others. Also living in Yorkshire it kinda helps to have some hill training as its quite steep round here.
just saw the twitter teaser thingy.....got rather excited.
Also living in Yorkshire it kinda helps to have some hill training as its quite steep round here.
You live somewhere hilly so you need virtual hills to train for hills? You've lost me... if you' said you'd lived in Lincolnshire I'd get that!
I'm sure I'll try it, I get doing a VR type thing, but for some reason it just doesn't appeal with Zwift. Presumably the descent will literally be 15+ minutes, you genuinely may as well get off and stretch!
You’ve lost me… if you’ said you’d lived in Lincolnshire I’d get that!
Time, family, etc... Like myself he can often struggle to be able to get outside.
Looking forward to it, supposed to be doing the outdoor version later in the year.
Presumably the descent will literally be 15+ minutes, you genuinely may as well get off and stretch!
there will be a portal at the top to pop you out at the bottom....
We don't, of course, know that it's a replica of Alpe d'Huez, that seems to be an assumption, although I accept likely based on the name..
you genuinely may as well get off and stretch!
I stretch on the big descent, I don't get off the bike - tend to try to simulate what I would do outside. Can't help but think its bad timing to release it now though. My sub will be cancelled soon til it after summer. I realise its winter somewhere but I'll bet most riders are northern hemisphere.
Do we know when it’s released?
This is something (some) people have been making a lot of noise about having for a long time, so even if it turns out to be shit it at least shows that Zwift are listening to their users.
(unlike some people 😉 )
Njee20 - family life and terrible weather has meant that this year i have been out once for 12 miles. This means when it comes to the steep stuff i am always somewhat lacking and i have a 34t cassette at the back to cope with the steep! I am also a piss poor rider but do rather better at zwift.
Can't wait. Which is funny as I don't really enjoy the hills IRL but in zwift I do and dislike the flats
Hopefully it won't just be a road up and down but rather some classic climbs replicated with some turn off points (quarter and half distance maybe?) and longer, flatter ways to get to the start (or a portal 🙂 )
Whats the fuss about, its nothing new have been able to simulate all the main Alps climbs with video climbs on BKool for ages
I'd prefer the video of the actual climb than Zwifts computer graphic footage (did a 7 day trail of Zwift the other week, enjoyed the competitive element but missed the better realism of BKool)
I rode Alp d'Huez a couple of weeks ago and did Mont Ventoux on Sunday (9-10% ave gradient for 5,346 feet over 13.3 miles, just failed to get under 2 hours but I'm no means fast and haven't been on a bike much since last October as I am recovering from a shoulder op 6 weeks ago)
Whats the fuss about, its nothing new have been able to simulate all the main Alps climbs with video climbs on BKool for ages
Well, yeah. But you could do it 20 years ago too by just watching TV whilst turbo training 😉
family life and terrible weather has meant that this year i have been out once for 12 miles. This means when it comes to the steep stuff i am always somewhat lacking and i have a 34t cassette at the back to cope with the steep! I am also a piss poor rider but do rather better at zwift.
I forget who's who on Zwift, but aren't you really fast on Zwift!?
I'm certainly intrigued to see how they implement it. I just hope there's not a massive deserted town at the top where you turn around and ride back down again, but no one bothers going there. I fear that as said there are better options for the iconic climbs, and it doesn't play to the strengths of Zwift.
Njee20, i think you may have a point about a boring descent but what else can they do. What goes up must come down?
To be honest though how much attention do users pay to the surroundings on zwift. Once i have done a new expansion on one ride to look at it then that is generally the last time i look at it, i concentrate on the road and riders.
And that's really the key for me - road and riders. I've done some of the video based equivalents and they just don't grab me in the way that zwift does.
For me at least, that's what the fuss is about. More roads in zwift means more variety and options in an app that I strangely enjoy using. YMMV
How long would the decent be anyway? I reckon it's about 2 to 2.5x the height of the radio masts and that takes, what? 2 minutes to come down? Feels like that anyway if you take the ruins direction down
Will come down to how long it takes really, i like the radio tower as with the run in & descent its a little over an hour for a lap, being time crunched, ive only got time for an hour ish at a time, so it will be something i do, just not a regular session like the radio tower
the added option is great though, more for your money etc
Sounds good to me. Family life also gets in the way of getting out at normal hours, and I like a good long climb. Hopefully a few false summits to get a breather and break things up a bit, and maybe some kind of loop near the top so its not just a straight up/down.
Will be intrigued but I’ve already cancelled my subscription until next winter.
I find the climbs on Zwift useful for FTP tests. I don’t like using erg mode and would rather mash on the simulated gradients. Hopefully they’ll be a continuous climb for longer than 20 mins without any flats / descents in it.
Have you seen the weather forecast for this time next week? You might want to renew!
How long would the decent be anyway?
Well the AdH descent is about 15 minutes. There’s an article on Zwift Insider with a couple of screenshots and suggesting it is a replica of AdH, but I don’t recognise the bit in one of the screenshots at all, having ridden the real thing 6 months ago.
Descent in zwift will be a fair bit faster than real life anyway as you don't have to slow down for any corners or traffic.
Aye, true! Still 7+ minutes I’d imagine though.
We shall see.
Looks like a pretty good homage:
Compared to [url= https://www.strava.com/activities/1183340396 ]the real thing[/url].
Easter egg release would be very welcome, last shift tomorrow until next Tuesday, but real life weather is carp.
Lol, the strata segment for ADH has just been rotated anti clockwise by 90°. The Zwift KOM of 56 mins won't last long 😆
I was going to suspend Zwift for the "summer" but I need to ride this as my own time on the real-life ADH is a pathetic 1hr 41mins...😭
Comparison of the 1. Radio mast climb (just the bit from top of Epic KOM), 2. Epic KOM (so not including the bit to the radio mast) and 3. the new Alpe de Zwift
Alpe de Zwift: https://www.strava.com/segments/17184545
Interesting, so actually it’s not that much longer.
How does that compare to Epic KOM reverse? Must be a similar grade but possibly twice the length?
But no flat or downhill sections like epic. As its virtual why not just put a teleporter at the top so as do avoid the boring descent? After all it's not as if box hill has a tube station.
I'm heavy and live in the Fens but actually prefer hilly courses on Zwift. The flat ones are dull and I struggle to put the effort in.
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Why is everyone so concerned about the descent? You don’t [i]have[/i] to freewheel down it! It’s not like you risk coming off if you take a corner too fast!
I would definitely wear a helmet though. No point in taking unnecessary risks.
Not concerned, it's just quite a long time where, yes ok you can pedal, but it's pretty pointless.
The graph's a bit misleading by not starting at 0m, 3 times the climbing is quite significant.
So....STW Everesting session at some point??
Oh, that is quite a bit longer...
Hopefully on the descent you get slowed down on every hairpin bend. This already happens on one of the hairpins on the London circuit, so they could implement it on the new route. It would make races on the mountain more interesting/painful as you would have to accelerate out of every corner to regain speed on the way down the hill.
I am currently off Zwift as I have broken my Neo, currently talking to Tacx about getting it fixed, but doubt it will be fixed before this update lands.
So it's now available 🙂
But it's locked at level 12 and I'm level 11 1/2 👿
Guess I'll be doing flat miles for a bit...
Looks impressive from a distance though from what I could see in the jungle and from the volcano
Well that's my ride this evening sorted!
So annoyed right now that they made it a level 12 unlock. 👿
And to top things off, it seems all my radio tower climbs since January get the same mileage XP rate as flat routes, rather than an XP climbing factor, WTFBBQ? 😥
Any idea how many miles I need to do to go from level 11 to 12?
Apparently the quickest way to level up is using TT bike on Volcano Flat.
DO i climb it today then... I was planning the 10:35 ECC Thursday but it seems rude not to give it a gentle try. Won't be setting any records as it's a Z2 kind of day today rather than a race/blast.
4000 xp from 11 to 12 iirc. So that's 200k if you don't collect any bonuses
if you haven’t got them all already, unlocking achievements will give you a quick boost!Any idea how many miles I need to do to go from level 11 to 12?
Point to note, you level up a fraction faster if you ride in km rather than miles
Why is pedalling downhill pointless?
Because your drag increases exponentially so the faster you're going the less and less difference pedaling makes to your speed
Not quite level 10 yet, Alps a bit away for me.
KOM for the climb is falling rapidly - around 40 mins now.
The DH seems to be around 11 mins with some minimal pedaling, down to 9 mins from someone averaging 300w
Because your drag increases exponentially so the faster you’re going the less and less difference pedaling makes to your speed
Why does that make it pointless to pedal downhill? If you are using Zwift as a training tool, you can choose to pedal downhill and uphill.
Of course. Many people ride it like in the real world though and just coast
Anyone got a link to the zwift strava segment?
I found an online calculator today which works out what average power is required to climb the real thing in a set amount of time.
For me to take the real KOM and grab a 38min time, at 72kg plus my bike I’d need to average about 464w!
Not quite level 10 yet, Alps a bit away for me.
I think if you join a race/ride going that way you'll be able to ride it 🙂
As an occasional zwift user I have absolutely zero points earned so far. Are you saying I can't actually ride this despite paying the monthly sub? If that's the case they can do one.. I'll be cancelling.
Gave it a pop earlier 52 mins.
Was quite fun and I like the fact they've put in 22 waypoints so it breaks up the climb.
It is a roll off the top and walk away for 10mins descent was doing 44-46mph all the way down with no input from me.
52 mins ! Eeeek !
A couple of observations:
1. Open up Zwift, look for someone riding who you think might be on the climb (low average is a giveaway) in the 'ride with' section and click to ride with them - you're then on Alpe Du Zwift even if you've not unlocked it yet.
2. Alternatively, do the above but find someone about 20-25k into a ride with a very low av speed - You may well find yourself at the top of the mountain - If you do a U turn quickly you can ride straight down the mountain without even pedalling - 12k a time. Easy way to get some miles if you're not level 12 yet...
(works on iOS at least)
ethics TBA
[rant]I am so pissed with how Zwift have handled this Alpe Du Zwift release malarkey...
It's a famous climb, Zwift users who used the radio tower will want to test their power on the longer climb. Except they leave it until release day to say you need level12, only as someone who pretty much only climbs the radio tower for training, I accumulate XP at ~50% of flat route riders for ~250W power as I'm fighting gravity!
So to have any chance of opening this bloody HC climb over the shit weather Easter weekend, it looks like I'm going to have to do another ~3.5 hours of hard effort riding around Volcano Flat on a TT (which doesn't interest me in the slightest).
And when I do open up those three new routes from hard riding a pancake route, I'll have such a silly negative "form" that my effort up the HC will be a complete load of testicles.
My urine is boiling. 😡 [/rant]
I agree that they have managed expectation poorly not mentioning the level 12 lock beforehand. As it was in the jungle I had assumed it would be just level 10 and would probably have made the effort to do some more zwift miles.
Of course that does tend to shape my thoughts on the ethics of the my previous post...
I think I prefer the real thing. Top ten on the descent on Strava though thanks to some devilish cunning and my new aero helmet and pink lycra specially for the occasion... it was actually a lot more fun going down than up after a bastard interval session 🙂
Hmmm, they've just switch over to the Richmond circuit. Arghhh.....
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<joke/>
My urine is boiling
Maybe go and do a real ride?
Does it mimic the real world with fatties descending faster?
As for having to do lots of flat miles, does it actually matter on a trainer? Surely unlike the real world, there's nothing to stop you doing 2x20 on a really lumpy route or doing 30s sprint intervals up a hill? Seems daft when the major benefit of turbo sessions is not having to be constrained by real-world geography! Do you also avoid Zwift if there's virtual rain?
I'll vouch that fatties do go faster dh 🙂
Smart trainers mean that you are 'constrained' by geography but then that's one of the big pluses for many - it does actually replicate real world riding to a decent degree - I hate turbo training but am quite happy to spend 2 hours on Zwift
Or you can turn on erg mode and not be affected by the terrain but that's no fun unless you're doing a specific workout imo
Zwift Preferences allows you to override the calendar world, to ride routes that are open to you with current XP level. I've been using it for months to do radio tower summit training sessions.
It's pissing down in Hampshire and I'm still waiting for Cube to re-release their mudguards, otherwise I'd happily be doing multiple 4000+ feet rides around the cat4s near Warnford and the cat3 near Peyersfieldthis long weekend, or better yet riding the numerous cat3s in The Mendips including Draycott Steep.
Zwift XP is mainly dished out through either 30 per mile, or 20 per kilometre, depending upon the metrics you choose. Speed is calculated from power and weight, with drafting if not using a TT bike. Riding to the radio tower via Mountain8 takes me under 40mins these days, for the ~8 mile ride. Earlier, 40mins around Volcano Flat allowed me to cover ~16 miles on a TT bike. I would be way above level12 on a time based system, having started in January.
Quickly tried that hack of joining someone who looks like they are climbing Alpe Du Zwift, it worked on Windows version, will try on the tablet with turbo hooked up tomorrow. 🙂
a quick question does zwift set the resistance based on weight of the rider (and is this input by the user) ?
Yes and yes (or you can have it fed in from fitbit, etc)
Doesn't set the resistance based on rider weight, but does use weight in calculations of speed as uses a w/kg model i.e. 80kg rider doing 200w up a hill is doing 2.5w/kg. 50kg rider doing 200w is putting out 4w/kg so will be faster.
a quick question does zwift set the resistance based on weight of the rider (and is this input by the user) ?
Yes, well, sort of. It's designed to mirror real world riding, so heavy riders have to work harder on climbs, but descend faster. On flatter stuff, because air resistance rather than gravity is the main determinant, it makes less odds. And yes, weight is input by the rider.
And yes, some people do appear to be rather lighter on Zwift than in real life. There are an awful lot of sub-60kg riders banging along at 5-6w/kg.
Other stuff makes a difference too: some Zwift bikes are lighter / faster / more aerodynamic than others. Ditto wheels.
But in short, yes and yes 🙂
does use weight in calculations of speed as uses a w/kg model i.e. 80kg rider doing 200w up a hill is doing 2.5w/kg. 50kg rider doing 200w is putting out 4w/kg so will be faster.
But on the flat both riders will travel at approximately the same speed. It's really only on climbs / descents where rider weight makes a big difference. The whole w/kg thing causes lots of confusion. It's the prime rider display metric - ie: what you see on the rider list - but a heavier rider could be putting out a lower watts per kilo figure than a lighter one, but still go faster on the flat.
In the above example, at 3w/kg both riders would be close on a climb, but on the flat the 80kg rider will generate 240 watts while the 50kg rider will be putting out just 150 watts. Zwift will display both doing 3w/kg, but the heavier rider with higher power output will go quicker.
Rider avatars reflect weight and height as well, so you can sometimes judge from that, but if you click on another rider's name on the rider list, you can see his or her actual power output along with cadence and HR if they're using the requisite sensors. From that you can work out their rough weight - there are a lot of beefy Americans out there along with a fair number of very light Japanese riders.
Get your point. Was just using it as a basic example of how I thought the model worked. I didn't think Zwift altered resistance based on your weight; 200W is 200W regardless of who is putting it out. I thought it just increased the resistance based on the calibrated braking force of the trainer & the in-game gradient, and then used rider weight to calculate speed.