[Closed] All the Ebike haterz... pitchforks at the ready 🙂

Couldn't they have made it a bit more ugly?

Agreed, nowhere near ugly enough

would prefer this..

http://bultacobrinco.com/?lang=en

?Acceleration is when the tears of emotion flow horizontally to your ears.? Yesterday was fast, today is WOW.

Not road legal? How would the rozzas ever catch you??? 😉

http://bultacobrinco.com/?lang=en

That's more like it! Truly gopping

Is that "seat tube" sealed at the bottom? Lovely seat post-swing arm collision there if it isn't & you drop the post for descents

75km/h and single piston brakes, what could go wrong!

Gopping , much prefer this vintage effort looks ideal for runs to the shops.
[img] [/img]
Icon eflyer, they make some nice off roaders too.

It does raise the question of why there are not more e-bike's razzing round cities.

It does raise the question of why there are not more e-bike's razzing round cities.

The £5000 part might be something to do with it. Though i do agree as i've only even seen one, which funnily enough was being ridden round the car park of CyB.

It does raise the question of why there are not more e-bike's razzing round cities.

You mean 'normal' electric bikes or these pumped up non road legal jobbies? In holland I think sales of electric bikes are at about 200,000 sales a year out of a about a million bikes sold in total. The dutch are more partial everyone, of all ages and states of health pedalling around in normal clothes and not being sweaty; we are still a bit fixated on gimp suits and day glo for our cycle commuting with a much more limited demographic to buy sit up and beg electric assist city bike in numbers..

I think Holland like Germany have most of the sales for *ebikes* taken up by older people. A lot more older people ride bikes as a leisure activity, rather than a sporting activity, than in the UK.

*Edit or I should say pedelecs as that is what most people are talking about*

on our swiss alps trip last year, we`ve seen quite a lot e-bikes..
not these special ones, just "standard" e-mtbs
and not on the trails,
but in the cities and around remote huts and farms

Starting to see the odd one down here in that there London

Ive only ever seen e-bikes ridden by fatties.

Ive only ever seen e-bikes ridden by fatties.

You mean 'normal' electric bikes or these pumped up non road legal jobbies?

The market for either must be there, lower running costs and simplicity, not needing much fitness etc. Purchase cost will be an issue, but how much is a cheap petrol scooter?

Haaaaa tom +1

Although I did follow an awesome contraption round surrey hills the other day. Looked home made, ridden by a very friendly portly chap. Live and let live..... If it gets people out on bikes great! If they have the money, great! Don't mind e bikes at all. When my knees give up, I will be buying one..... Hopefully the technology will have matured by then so we don't have to live with monstrosities like Im seing in this thread!

Was in Hayfield last weekend and there were 3 young lads all with quality ebike Full susser's outside Rosies Café, non of them were fat(yet)

[img] [/img]

I want one of these, for DH and commuting.

Our e-bike at work is ridden by the (usually female) partner who doesn't think that she will be able to manage a full day out on a normal bike with the cycling partner. They have a great time and usually embarrass the cyclist going uphill at a steady 15mph.

If I was a rich man with £5k to burn I'd buy the Bultaco, just for a laugh, doesn't look that bad as a lightweight motorbike, seat arrangement excluded!

75km/h crash is going to sting a bit in lycra 😯

Tom_W1987 - Member

Ive only ever seen e-bikes ridden by fatties.

You spotted me out t'other week then? I had the use of this thing for the evening.....

[img] [/img]

That'll be 6 and a half big ones to you sir. I can concur that they are indeed a right old laugh! You absolutely fly up hills. The top speed setting on the flat is bonkers!!! And the amount you can wind up your race whippet mates (Hi Daz) as you hoon past them on the ups, cackling like a maniac, while smoking a gittane/sipping a G&T more than compensates for the constant Brian Potter/invalid carriage remarks.

Theres a full test on them in this months mag (yes... theres a magazine)

😀

Yep they're great fun as, extra weight makes stopping and turning different, bested the KOM up BPW climb by over 2 mins on the one I had for a bit, another Haibike.
Damping a geometry needed a bit of adjustment though

They're pushing them in a big way in Austria, charging points at a lot of the mountain restaurants. I love them, opens up a whole new range of riding in areas where the lifts don't run in summer.

They're not as good as normal bike downhill though really.

Interesting idea for the Alps, as I've ridden a few places when the lifts are shut and its a soab doing all that climbing/pushing but amazing doing the descents around Morzine and Les Arcs when no one else is on them and you have the trail to yourself.

Would mean that the season is a hell of a lot longer as well.

6 and a half grand? Why not just spend a bit more and get an electric KTM moto?

Too heavy to be fun on mtb trails and jumps, too slow to be fun on moto/enduro trails.

Great for fatties to get up hills though, wreck trails and reduce access. Trail centres should ban them for all but disabled customers.

wreck trails

Not in my experience (the standard ones) of the power delivery they're pretty linear, the 75 km/h one might spin a touch though 😯

They should definately be banning the ones with moto style throttles. Over time you will notice trail erosion, if you double a humans power output you are going to increase erosion.

Secondly, trail overcrowding is bad enough without having to try to overtake 400lb whales and their fat kids who are out on a day trip. The day that happens I will lose my shit and move to a country where people are too poor to eat 4000 kcal a day.

Too heavy to be fun on mtb trails and jumps, too slow to be fun on moto/enduro trails.

Erm... sorry to burst your balloon, but thats complete and utter cobblers! On both counts!

Have you ever actually ridden one? Or are you doing the whole backbench Tory MP complaining about TV programmes. "I don't actually have to have seen the programme to know that it is an absolute outrage and should be banned!!!" 😆

Try and get one on a test ride! Seriously..... they're an absolute hoot! 😀

On uphills and rolling terrain they are a hoot, on downhills and jump sections they are heavy and unwieldly.

Looks like half a Mondraker with a lawnmower welded on.

Not for me, but fill your boots if that's your thing.

Tom_W1987 - Member

On uphills and rolling terrain they are a hoot, on downhills and jump sections they are heavy and unwieldly.

So you have ridden one of the expensive good ones then?

Yeah.... true... I only tried it round Calderdale, renowned as it is for its gently undulating, rolling landscape, and not even remotely technically challenging descents.

*adopts Rumpole of the Bailey voice*

Now I must press the defendant for an answer. A simple yes or no will suffice. Have you ridden one of the afore-mentioned contraptions?

Not one of your super expenaive 5 to 6k machines, still those weigh around 50 to 60lb.

I can't see them being much livlier. I stand by my point, if you dont want to pedal put your money where your mouth is and buy a ktm.

I don't get how you know with such certainty how one of these rides, having never ridden one. How does that work then?

For a start, you seem to totally misunderstand what these things actually are. You don't just push a button and they just go. You still have to pedal them. Your pedalling action is then amplified by the motor. To different degrees depending on the setting. It's a really weird feeling to start with, but you soon get used to it, then really start to exploit it!! With a great big beaming grin on your face!!! 😀

On the flat, you turn the motor off, and pedal away. You literally forget it's there. And then on the descents it felt like what it is - a really nicely specced 160mm trail bike .

I the weight issue - The Haibike I rode was nowhere near 50lb. It's about 40, but felt lighter. And it felt anything but unwieldy. But then what would I know? I'll have to defer to someone more qualified to judge, despite having never been on one.

Seriously... Piss -taking aside.... if you can get out on one of these, then do. I was gobsmacked at just how good it was! I don't know what e-bikes you've ridden, but the experience, and your opinions on it, don't bear any resemblance to what I thought.

Had a go on a Rottwild 6 inch travel FS job in Hinterglemm, mega fun. Felt about the weight of an old DH bike, weight carried low.
The lad in the bike shop had been sessoning the Blue line there without using the gondola, loves it.

This will end in trail conflict and can only be bad for trail access.

Shame really as I bets it good fun.

I can totally see the appeal of these in a bike park scenario, or in an area with seasonal lift closures, so far I've solely encountered them being hooned around bridleways and trail centres by fat lads in troy lee kit.

A 40lb bike is still a 40lb bike and I doubt it was that light, did you have scales on your demo ride binners?

Bikes dont feel lighter than they are, thats the biggest horseshit cliche in the industry.

I know how e-bikes work binners, some of them use pedal assist and some use throttles. Will trail centres be staffed well enough to tell the difference? I doubt it and that doesnt change the fact that pedal assist will still increase erosion.

What will happen is that normal mtbers will get overtaken by begginers on uphills and then end up slowing them down on the descents - making trail centre overcrowding even worse - as the speeds of the two different categories will vary considerably. There will be less flow and more conflict.

But yeah I keep forgetting that more technology and money is always good and never ever detrimental to a sport.

I just imagine 3 outfits based in say Ambleside offering stag weekend style trips out on the local right of way network on what may well electric motor bikes in all but name

Why don't the haters petition to have themselves walking in front of ebikers waving a red flag! That'll show them 🙂

I witnessed my fist ebike, a giant full sus in woolacoombe on Saturday. Looked ok and the bloke was smiling too.
Not for me until I'm older though as I like the achievement of just my energy getting me there. I can see the appeal of them and they will be popular if the batteries and mechanical parts last

No doubt they will become the pikey quad bikers favoured mode of transport.

Christ! Right little Rays of sunshine you lot, aren't you. Perish the thought that anyone might be able to have some fun without earning it! Maybe everyone who wants to go downhill needs to be forces to do the most technical climb first. On a rigid single-speed, while being whipped with birch branches by hardened mountain who've 'done their time'

And the difference between this and an uplift day is.....?

We need to ban all that shit too! And fast!!!! Turn those bloody chairlift things off in Morzine!!! How dare they intrude on our maschistic suffering!!!!

Lifts take people up trails at the same rate and you usually get an idea of who to to give space to on uplift days. E-bikes allow slow riders to pass advanced riders on the climbs and then slow them down on the otherside at trail centres that are undulating. Its bad enough being held up by cyclocrossers on descents who passed you on a climb without introducing more fat people to the equation.

Christ! Right little Rays of sunshine you lot, aren't you. Perish the thought that anyone might be able to have some fun without earning it! Maybe everyone who wants to go downhill needs to be forces to do the most technical climb first. On a rigid single-speed, while being whipped with birch branches by hardened mountain who've 'done their time'

And the difference between this and an uplift day is.....?

We need to ban all that shit too! And fast!!!! Turn those bloody chairlift things off in Morzine!!! How dare they intrude on our maschistic suffering!!!!

Also, uplifts are usually designed in a way that limits soil erosion.

You know you can get an electric mx bike for 7300 euros? Those e-bikes are a bit overpriced arent they 🙂

And the difference between this and an uplift day is.....?

Fewer Monster stickers, fewer plumber's vans and less BO?

Oooooooooo - these 'Advanced Riders' sound like the truly righteous Knights of Llandegla, spoken about in hushed tones amongst us mere mortals. One can only wonder at the years they have to study, the rituals they must partake in and the tests to the very limit of human endurance they must endured, before they are anointed by the elders as Those Who Get to Make the Rules. It's like Karate Kid. Wax on..... Wax off....

Only the truly cynical and deluded would suggest that might want to stop banging on from their high horses, and go out and ride some proper bloody trails instead, if they're that bothered about the forthcoming invasion of fat bloke hoardes on e-bikes 😆

[img] [/img]

[url= http://www.rotwild.de/en/e-mtb/r-e1plus-fs-27-5 ]Rotwild E-bike[/url]

7000 Euros. Worth every cent to wind up all the advanced riders out there.

Binners why do you keep banging on about how great ebikes are on a cycling forum and slagging anybody who disagrees. Cycling is human powered, ebikes have engines, they have a place, but they aren't good for the sport of cycling. These super expensive ones will very rarely be used by people with genuine mobility problems, just by lazy people who want it all without making any effort. Personal transport aside I'll never use one, when I get to old to ride as I want I'll do something else.

That Rotwild is hilarious. We are constantly told by a certain brand of mountainbiker, that mtbs are expensive in comparison to motorbikes cuz "that's wot pro's use". Yet here we have a bike that is effectively an electric MX bike, but everything in the spec is worse/cheaper in comparison to some of the similarly priced E-mx bikes in the pipeline.

But because mtbers are gullible idiots with too much money and very little sense, they will sell like hotcakes to overweight IT workers who want to be rad but who don't quite have the bollocks to just take up MX. Meanwhile all the cool kids will move into road cycling to differentiate themselves from all the fatties bumbling around trail centres.

Well I should no better but

Christ! Right little Rays of sunshine you lot, aren't you. Perish the thought that anyone might be able to have some fun without earning it! Maybe everyone who wants to go downhill needs to be forces to do the most technical climb first. On a rigid single-speed, while being whipped with birch branches by hardened mountain who've 'done their time'

Effort free fun isn't even being debated. Other than enticing more users.

And the difference between this and an uplift day is.....?

Now I've never done one, but as i understand it uplift days days are usually planned where there are some trails to ride down. Usually these specifically made with the landowners permission? They are part of a closed system. Even if there are uplifts all over the National Park they don't let you do 75km/h on the flat

Turn those bloody chairlift things off in Morzine!!! How dare they intrude on our maschistic suffering!!!!

Again the chair lifts in Morzine lead to trails set up to cope with the demand they create

If you set up an e-bike trail centre I'll be along with my cash. It sounds great fun My concern is electric motor bikes that look like mountain bikes being launched down the Uks bridleways

[i]Yet here we have a bike that is effectively an electric MX bike, but everything in the spec is worse/cheaper in comparison to some of the similarly priced E-mx bikes in the pipeline.[/i]
How much does the electric MX bike weigh, as you've clearly stated that anything over a certain way feels heavy and unwieldy?

That Rotwild is hilarious. We are constantly told by a certain brand of mountainbiker, that mtbs are expensive in comparison to motorbikes cuz "that's wot pro's use". Yet here we have a bike that is effectively an electric MX bike, but everything in the spec is worse/cheaper in comparison to some of the similarly priced E-mx bikes in the pipeline.

The economics of the cost of that bike are relatively simple if given a modicum of thought. What price would a similarly specced 'normal' enduro style bike cost? Add the cost of the electric motor, a shed load of laptop batteries and a control system then factor in the increased costs of small scale production of a non mainstream product and there is your price justification. Comparisons to electric MX bikes are meaningless.

To be fair I think I'd like to see them slightly more regulated in terms of speed. If the idea is to get up the hills, big or small at much increased pace and allow 'natural' descent I'm not sure why the motor needs to assist you up to 75kph. Average speed of the men at the Fort William downhill at the weekend was only 35kmh. As someone currently off the bike by doctors instruction due to a dicky hip that only manifests itself at higher power outputs one of these could keep me riding snd skills together whilst waiting for a recovery.

How much does the electric MX bike weigh

A quick google suggests a KTM freeride is £6500 but a stonking 100kg in weight. Agreed it seems good value in comparison in some ways but in many ways it's a hell of lot easier to make a 100kg electric motor bike than it is to add 350W of electric assist to a push bike and keep the weight reasonable. Entirely different sort of engineering.

But an e-bike doesn't have a throttle, is limited by law to 25kph (in the UK).

E-bikes and electric MX bikes aren't the same thing.

It's convenient to keep saying they are - a bit like it's convenient to lump MXers and MTBers together when trying to ban MTB's from using paths and tracks.
It's still utter nonsense though!

Have a read of the article in the current Singletrack and try to be a bit open minded about things?

Si

PS I don't own, sell, rent or have any involvement with e-bikes.
I'd like to give one a go as they look like they could be good fun.
I don't have the money to buy one. I'm not interested in buying one.
I AM interested in open minded discussion instead of "they're just motorbikes with an electric engine aren't they" nonsense.

Binners why do you keep banging on about how great ebikes are on a cycling forum and slagging anybody who disagrees

I'm not slagging anyone off. I'm offering an alternative viewpoint to the knee-jerk view of the purist fun police, who seem to have already made up their minds (without ever actually ridden one, obviously) that these are the work of satan, and are about to bring about the end of cycling as we know it. I'm just saying they're surprisingly fun (expensive) things, that are right old laugh. Can I afford one? No. Would I buy one if I could? probably not. It would be near the back of list. Do I think they've about to bring about the end of the world, and ruin everything ever, like the more hysterical voices on this thread. Don't be daft!

And to be honest with you - moaning about having fat blokes on e-bikes ruining trail centres seems to me a bit like complaining about the people who pay extra to get in the fast-track queue at Alton Towers. 😀

Theres an article in this months mag which I'll be really interested to read. See what the opinion is of people who ride bikes for a living.

[quote=scc999 ]But an e-bike doesn't have a throttle, is limited by law to 25kph (in the UK).
E-bikes and electric MX bikes aren't the same thing.

Not the style largely being discussed here, which don't have those limitations, and therefore are legally classified exactly the same as an electric MX bike, and are more similar in performance to one of those than a normal pedal powered bicycle.

I think they are very popular over in Germany. I guess their hills are bigger / steeper than ours.

I crested a hill on Dartmoor (blowing out of my &rse) a couple of weeks ago only for a German tourist to stop me, open mouthed and say "Wow, that's not an electric bike". I didn't quite know how to respond having never actually seen one in the flesh. So I told him that would be cheating and rode off.....

I can't see the point round my way. Isn't riding a bike meant to be challenging? I can't imagine there's much of a sense of achievement after a 3 hour off road ride with an electric bike. You might as well drive?

The KTM freeride is a petrol engine, it's the Freeride E that's electric. Around £10k I think.
Completely unrelated to an E bike though.

You still have to put pedalling energy into E bikes.

I did explain that kelp. Repeatedly. As have other people. Alas... it would appear some people just don't want to listen to that. They've made their minds up already, based on little or no knowledge of they how they work (hence the 'electric motor-bike innit?' twoddle), or experience of actually riding one (why would you need too, after all?), so thats the end of that

Haruuuuumph!

So basically like one of these Honda Hobbits but not as good due to limited range?
[img] [/img]

I'm just posting to say I don't have an opinion on this subject. I couldn't give a rats-arse either way tbh.

So basically like one of these Honda Hobbits but not as good due to limited range?

Did you every try pedalling one of those? It was comedy!

No, nothing like that.

I did explain that kelp. Repeatedly. As have other people. Alas... it would appear some people just don't want to listen to that. They've made their minds up already, based on little or no knowledge of they how they work (hence the 'electric motor-bike innit?' twoddle), or experience of actually riding one (why would you need too, after all?), so thats the end of that

Like you came back to explain how an e-bike is like an uplift day 🙂

I'm not worried about them not being fun, quite the opposite

What will keep non street legal e-bikes of our trails? It is different from MX bikes as no one will think that they are a mountain bike, Or think that they can pretend that what they are doing is legal

What will keep non street legal e-bikes off our trails?

Newsflash - we don't actually own the trails*

* apart form Lowey of course. Who does actually own all the trails round Rivi

I love a good ebike thread, the wheelsize thing has been done to death now 😉

As with last months thread, if you haven't ridden a decent one yet seriously go and get a test ride they are great fun and it'll also put a lot of the worries to rest when you see what they do & how they do it.
The whole 'fat people up hills' thing isn't very nice, it'll only take a niggling injury that keeps you off the bike for 6 months (or a new child 😉 ) to put on a few stone.
If a an ebike is a spur to get fitted and loose weight that can only be seen as a good thing. 😀

I find your faith in humanity disturbing, people wont use them to lose weight. They'll use them to get away with being fat, which will go hand in hand with the fat pride movement that's rearing it's head slowly like a waking godzilla.

Newsflash - we don't actually own the trails*

I keep forgetting that we don't use public access trails that are shared with other people.

aracer - Member

scc999 » But an e-bike doesn't have a throttle, is limited by law to 25kph (in the UK).
E-bikes and electric MX bikes aren't the same thing.

Not the style largely being discussed here, which don't have those limitations, and therefore are legally classified exactly the same as an electric MX bike, and are more similar in performance to one of those than a normal pedal powered bicycle.

They're not e-bikes then. They're lctric MX bikes or whatever else you want to come up with as long as you don't call them by the name that defines something substantially different.

And what will keep them off the trails where they aren't allowed? The same thing that does (or doesn't) keep motorbikes off the trails now.

Si

But nobody's going to spend £1000's on a ebike because of a niggling injury or they've just had a baby are they.

Good luck being able to tell the difference. You will be able to modify the pedledecs to use throttles and more powerful engines.

In fact, I might write to the mail saying the are a danger to children. See how long you can get parts for them after the first child has been mown down by one doing 75kph. 🙂

Tom_W1987 - Member

Good luck being able to tell the difference. You will be able to modify the pedledecs to use throttles and more powerful engines.

I guess we'll have to check back in a few years time as neither one of us can say for certain whether people will bother to do that when they could just buy an electric motored MX bike.

Loads of things are possible to do, worst case scenario's are rarely a good starting point for debating what WILL happen as opposed to what COULD happen though.

Si

It's going to an interesting moral dilemma when I come across then first conked out e-bike in the middle of no where.

They do have pedals... 😉

A bit like this.....

[img] [/img]

Are Acme Rocket Powered Roller Skates banned from 'our' trails too then? I've just bloody brought a pairr too!!!