AIBU, 2nd hand DH fork content.

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I’d not be spending £600 on used Select (base) level forks.

That's not the point lol..

£600 is a fair price... that's what they cost used... the question is more 'if you'd spent £600, would these be acceptable'

£600 seems very expensive considering they can be had new for 999 Euro (£870)

That said, I think the seller's original pics do show the scratches clearly

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/rockshox-boxxer-select-rc-29-debon-air-200-boost

Mine are 27.5 and that's £870 + 20% import duty ....

Which is about £1050...

There's a massive difference in the wallet between £1050 and £600.

That said, I think the seller’s original pics do show the scratches clearly

That's the AIBU part of it.

It would be 870 minus 21% German VAT, plus 20% UK VAT and a little duty

£600 is a fair price… that’s what they cost used… the question is more ‘if you’d spent £600, would these be acceptable’

Taking that philosophy forward, what are other equivalent priced sold items like in terms of condition (eBay filter sold items for reference)?

I still think £600 is a lot for what you got regardless of condition, but you did buy the first thing that was available rather than wait to see what came up for sale.

For example there’s a Boxxer Team on eBay at £650 taking offers (so let’s say £600) in better condition.

I still think £600 is a lot for what you got regardless of condition, but you did buy the first thing that was available rather than wait to see what came up for sale.

Well no, i never really...

But there's very much a lack of availability.

I'm not sure with used stuff that you can say "Surely they should be better for £600 ?". It's not like a business where "I paid £1000 a night for this hotel room, surely I should expect proper coffee" Vs "I paid £35 for this Travelodge, a sachet of Nescafé brown drink™ is fair enough".

They're used, they're available for a price, you were happy to pay that price, now you've got the thing that was for sale, in the condition it was advertised at. Unless the photos hid serious damage or the damage was done after the photos were taken i don't think you can expect a refund.

Only you can decide if they’re the right price. Look on PB snd eBay and see how they match up to others.

It’s just scratches. And if they work and you were happy with paying £600 then keep them.

There are WCs on eBay for £450 but no idea if they’re borked or good ones.

I would have been uncomfortable selling them in the condition the photos show them unless the buyer had physically seen them and agreed they were right for them and also on a price v condition.
Even as a DH fork I'm not sure I would have advertised them.

What do they look like on the inside? That's the important bit and would be the decider for me.

The condition's not bad at all for dh forks, but then that's not quite the question you're asking. Looking at the ad with my jaundiced eye, I'd have said that the pic from the rear especially shows a fair amount of finish dulling which always comes along with scrapes etc. But the fork arch looks pretty different? The pictures are a wee bit lacking, but not enough to say that they were chosen to give a false impression- the lack of a picture from underneath and of the sides has left it a bit open to end up here...

Your pics are also definitely less flatteringy, if you'd posted clean pics with a wipe of gt85 or mucoff bike protect ed Parts Flattery Spray to be equivalent to the for sale ad I think it'd stand out much less.

Don't think you're being unreasonable necessarily but equally I think you've walked into it a bit. At the end of the day dh forks are always either scratched already, or scratched tomorrow so if the stanchions are good, they're straight and all then it's still better than it could easily have been buying used.

What do they look like on the inside?

TBH mate, if i take them apart then i wouldn't be happy sending them back. If the situation were reverse i wouldn't be happy accepting them back as a return if they had been opened up, so i would't do it either.

If he will take them back then no one is being unreasonable.

The question is if you want them for £600 or not? That's up to you

there’s very much a lack of availability.

Isn't that the answer to your question

But, they look like you’ve fitted and used them? Your pics are also definitely less flattering partly because of being dirty, if you’d posted clean pics with a wipe of gt85 or mucoff bike protect Used Parts Flattery Spray to be equivalent to the for sale ad I think it’d stand out much less.

I fitted them, but i've certainly not used them or been anywhere with them other than in the garage for a bounce up and down and testing the adjusters. Currently the boy has a broken clavicle and we don't have a crown race (i forgot to take it off the broken forks) so they've 100% not moved.

I agree, a bit of a clean up would make them a bit more respectable... but that's not really the point. None of that is 'dirt' as such, it's marks that are on/through the paint/decals.

Isn’t that the answer to your question

Well as with everything in life, these things come up for sale.... they certainly come up for sale for more money too, i can get a lovely new set of Ohlins for £1500 lol. Lack of availability maybe wasn't the correct choice, but there's a lot less DH forks for sale both new or used than there are say a set of 160mm 29er forks.

Sorry, yep, I took another look and realised it was just the flash making them look dirtier- too slow on the edit!

Sorry,

Nothing to apologise for, perfectly valid question.

to me they look like they have been hard used and I would be uncomfortable paying that much for something that does not appear to be cared for. Have they been serviced at all? do they move smoothly?

But then I have not bought on the second hand market for years and never DH

But you agreed to buy them so I think it would be a poor move to return them given they are not misrepresented

If they are working perfectly and all the bolts are in good condition and no marks on the useable stanchion then I'd probably be ok with it. Function over form IMO.

It's brings back the helitape argument, a lot of people argue bikes are supposed to get scratched. I personally like to helitape my forks to avoid silly knocks and scratches causing damage.

They look am absolute state. They look as bad as......

.. the stuff I sell. Seriously, they're a mess. I generally couldn't give two shits about how the stuff I buy or sell looks, but they're beyond scuffed

Mine are 27.5 and that’s £870 + 20% import duty ….

On a more important point, have another look at the prices thing. You don't pay the VAT in order country and the destination.

Basically this:

It would be 870 minus 21% German VAT, plus 20% UK VAT and a little duty

They look am absolute state. They look as bad as……

.. the stuff I sell. Seriously, they’re a mess. I generally couldn’t give two shits about how the stuff I buy or sell looks, but they’re beyond scuffed

That’s a bit of hyperbole really. Have you any experience of uplifts? Admittedly it’s been a few years since I raced proper uplifted DH, but a set of new forks can look like that after a weekend in the back of a van or truck with a few badly stacked bikes against them.

if you’re not happy, send them back & get a refund if thats what they have offered, nothing lost then.

The pics in the original ad look like the pics you took,so I don't think they misrepresent anything, however the condition description on the pink bike add is "excellent" is clearly not true.

If I was the seller I'd be annoyed that someone bought them but now wants to send them back, if I was the buyer I might be tempted to buy some new decals from slik graphics, and polish out the worst of the scratches and chalk it up to experience - this is all assuming they are functionally fine, if they don't actually work then fair enough send em back with no guilt.

I’m not sure how people conflate scruffy on the outside with trashed on the inside. A fork that looks ridden hard may well have belonged to someone who was meticulous with servicing. A pristine fork wrapped in copter tape from new may have sat in a garage for months at a time and never had the lowers off for a service.
My stuff all ends up scraped and scratched in use but then I tend to use stuff to death and not sell on.

It’s a long time since I’ve bought any secondhand forks but based on what I now know about forks I’d be inclined to have the seller send them to someone like tftuned for a service immediately - and then you’ve got a professional’s opinion to go back with if the innards don’t match the seller’s claims.

Good point docrobster.

Helitape any frame and forks that you might sell, especially if you’re uplifting. And doubly if you plan to sell them again.

Does anyone remember when there were companies that made fork ‘armour’ to protect them?

how did your kid snap a set of boxxers? I ride hard on all sorts of bikes, including some with boxxers which have taken an increadible amount of abuse (and I'd bet I weigh getting on for double what your kid does). Actually snapping them is pretty much unheard of

either way, pictures on the add are accurate, doesn't matter what you paid. Your shots are taken with a direct flash which will highlight the blemishes. Unless they misled you I'd say you have no comeback

https://youtube.com/shorts/adzYuT9heKQ?feature=share

Like that, trying to quad the whale tail.

might be tempted to buy some new decals from slik graphics, and polish out the worst of the scratches and chalk it up to experience

I'm leaning this way.

also is the seller naked when taking pictures of the fork specs? first warning sign right there..

That’s a bit of hyperbole really. Have you any experience of uplifts?

Not much as most of my riding tends to be XC, but I've done some bits and pieces in:
Moab
Finale
Lecht
Inners
Antur
Lakes
Ochsenkopf
Saalbach
Leogang
Serfaus Fiss Ladis
Verbier
Champery
Morzine
La plagne
Tignes
Val d Isere
Les Arcs
Meribel
Ardeche
La Thuile
😉

Not sure that materially impacts my view on those forks TBH. They look well bashed about, even compared to my exceedingly based about kit.
Im surprised at a price of ~ 70% of RRP
Last 3 Sets of forks went to the charriddy shop. ( they were 26" tHhough TBH )

The ad is missing photos of the sides of the lowers. Given the condition you've received them in, I'd assume that this was a deliberate omission.

The ad says "excellent" condition, the ad photos I'd say are "very good", your photos I'd say are "good". That's cosmetic condition.

I’ve done some bits and pieces in:
Moab
Finale
Lecht
Inners
Antur
Lakes
Ochsenkopf
Saalbach
Leogang
Serfaus Fiss Ladis
Verbier
Champery
Morzine
La plagne
Tignes
Val d Isere
Les Arcs
Meribel
Ardeche
La Thuile

I mean they’re tatty on the outside - but you had photos which showed that. The ‘excellent’ tag on Pinkbike is clearly not true though - for me that’s functional but cosmetically rough.

Bearing in mind you’ve fitted them to the bike now (I think from what you said above) my feeling is you should just keep them now - assuming they work properly. I think you’ve got a touch of buyers remorse as £600 is a lot of money and your new parts aren’t as shiny as you might hope for that money.

I’d put new graphics on and give them a good polish and forget about it. At least you won’t wince about the bike next time there’s a crash as the forks are already scratched 😄

Like that, trying to quad the whale tail.

jeez, he was no-where near that. And that's speaking as someone who loves coming up short. what actually snapped? new stanchions (I imagine that's what went) are ~£100 each..

My forks looks that dull...but I don't tend to polish up the forks...when I do take a duster to them, they come up nicely again so I suspect some of the dullness will disappear with a good wipe down (should have been done before sending them to you though).

I've a Pike Select but upgraded it all over last 3 years so it is now a Pike Ultimate on the inside...Select on the outside. They get serviced but I don't get out the dusters to polish them.

Not seeing the advert and based on the pics, I'd not be happy I'd paid 600 for those, but I'd be ok if it had been 500...as you've said supply isn't high so you have take what you can so these could be a good buy if they work well. I don't see my fork when I'm riding so it would only be after the ride when I'm staring at the bike that I may be a bit fussed.

https://flic.kr/p/2nWfvLV

These are not Boxxers, but Xfusion RV1s.

jeez, he was no-where near that. And that’s speaking as someone who loves coming up short.

We know ☺️

^ I guess thats a good reason to go for known forks.. did the axle snap as well? Seems like an odd place for forks to go, i guess the wheel was slightly sideways on landing and put the full force through where the upper stanctions meet the frame?

They do look kind of “scabby” but I’m assuming that before you drop £600 on a pair of used DH forks, you asked him when they were last serviced, and who by? If they have been regularly serviced, that should ease a bit of doubt maybe?

did the axle snap as well?

Nope.

The forks have been sent off to potentially be repaired, which is £220 including a service, assuming of course it's just a simple lowers.

The lad does like the XFusion but yes we thought we'd go a bit more mainstream, hence the Boxxers.

It’s been crashed multiple times and it’s been set on the ground with the wheel off.
Neither of those affect the function of the fork, nor imply the internals are in a bad way.

I’m not sure what, beyond slightly more initial material, means a boxxer commands more money than a pike or lyric. 600 for used select grade seems steep to this trail rider, but as you’ve identified, it’s supply and demand. DH is an expensive game to be in.

By the way, While I may question some of your shopping practices, I applaud your refusal to open them up if you are possibly sending them back.

I love that he didn't case the landing, he cased the takeoff! Heroic effort though.

thegeneralist
Full Member

Not much as most of my riding tends to be XC, but I’ve done some bits and pieces in:
<snip> The Lecht <snip>

One of these was not like the others 🙂

I’m not sure what, beyond slightly more initial material, means a boxxer commands more money than a pike or lyric. 600 for used select grade seems steep to this trail rider, but as you’ve identified, it’s supply and demand. DH is an expensive game to be in.

volumes plays a massive part. A few years ago I read a stat along the lines of specialized sell something like 1000 demo's a year, compared to 20,000 stumpjumpers.

specialized sell something like 1000 demo’s a year,

They might sell 1001 if they'd make one in a bloody adult size

They might sell 1001 if they’d make one in a bloody adult size

I don’t understand spesh’s sizing convention, but they currently offer 3 sizes and sell 1000 total. You propose they add a fourth size, requiring a new front triangle mould to make a minor increase in sale numbers?

Lots of tall guys seem to end up on Santa Cruz.

I don’t understand spesh’s sizing convention, but they currently offer 3 sizes and sell 1000 total. You propose they add a fourth size, requiring a new front triangle mould to make a minor increase in sale numbers?

I think the complaint is the max reach is 465mm which is short compared to modern trail bikes (and shorter than some more recent dh bikes). I think DHers tend to follow fashion slightly less (and def slower), maybe partly due to the slower product cycles but maybe also that really long bikes aren't as quick for people who are really fast?

Fair comments

Bike geo is still not an exact science- is it really the reach that people desire (within reason) or is it the wheelbase and or front centre? A slack Dh will be longer than an on trend long reach trail bike.

Reach (from the riders perspective) increases and stack decreases, the steeper the slope you point it down. Gravity remains vertical. Perhaps the “dh bikes only make sense going fast” is actually “dh bikes need to be on a downslope to handle right” because in most cases you cannot have the former without the latter.

As a seasoned buyer of 2nd hand mtb bits those have definitely been mis-described. They'd be ok/average rather than very good. I'm not sure if I'd be happy but beggars can't etc and if there's not much available then I guess you'll just have to suck it up and chalk it to experience. At the end of the day everyone's opinion of condition is different. I'm surprised there's not more about at the moment though - it's the end of the season.

They look like crap. Plenty of boxxer select 180mm around that people take off nearly new kenevos that go for £600. Just need a 200mm airspring for £30 or so.

To be shocked and horrified search the absolutely knackered ohlins in dual crown on pb.

You propose they add a fourth size, requiring a new front triangle mould to make a minor increase in sale numbers?

Just saying that I might personally buy one if they came up a little longer. I'd love a full Ohlins Demo. I'm a fair bit taller than Loic Bruni and they have to make him a custom front triangle with a longer reach. So where do they get the idea that all 3 versions of the retail frame need to be tiny?

Anyway, we're going way off topic.

Buff those Boxxers up, get some new graphics and crack on! I'm sure they'd benefit from a full service as well.

Buff those Boxxers up, get some new graphics and crack on! I’m sure they’d benefit from a full service as well.

That's what i've done this morning using some trim gel. 75% of the marks on the sides are on the decals, so they're £18 to swap, if i place them straight up and down instead of the funky angle the Rockshox use i reckon i can get 100% of the side marks covered.

So it's really only the cable rub where the brake cable is routed, but i usually cover that area with tape anyway to protect the fork from cable rub lol... so i wouldn't notice..

You've got some great answers here, so I'll just say: on the balance of condition, price, description & the seller being willing to take them back... get that refund pronto and find a cheaper, better fork.

No judgement on you that you've overpaid, but you have. And you've got a chance to recoup. Take it.

Late to the thread, but
"Condition: Excellent"

No, condition is "Battered" (maybe "ok" condition if they work well)
Think I like about Pinkbike sales, is if you right-click the photo and open in new tab (on Chrome/Edge) you get the full size pic so can check out the details.
eg.

which looks almost like a different fork from weeksy's photo 😛

They’re used, they’re available for a price, you were happy to pay that price, now you’ve got the thing that was for sale, in the condition it was advertised at. Unless the photos hid serious damage or the damage was done after the photos were taken i don’t think you can expect a refund.

If they are in good condition mechanically, I don't think you have any reason to complain.

A nice polish and bright lighting can make a scratch look like reflection. And a poor photo can make some dust look like a scratch.

Calling the condition excellent was clearly a lie but it happens a lot. Barely used, as new etc get used a lot in 2nd hand adverts when an item has clear wear and tear. I personally like to be as honest as possible when selling something so there's little chance of comeback.

Well we've moved on from the discussion now, they did honestly clean up better and with some new decals will look fine. Functionally they're great and they're getting a lower service and set of seals as we speak.

Am i ecstatic, no, not really. But looking round Ebay and Pinkbike, unless i throw in another £300, i'm not getting much better really.
In other news, the XFusions have been repaired now. £228 with a service and new lowers... bargain.

So i'll also have a 2nd set of forks and i can then make a decision based upon the actual functionality of the forks and which he prefers. Arguably the Boxxers are better than the Xfusions and being air are more adjustable for size and weight over the Xfusions (although you can of course swap springs).

Always surprised x fusion don’t get more love. My mcqueens are miles better than my revs for a similar price point.

Always surprised x fusion don’t get more love

We were a little dubious about them from a few comments when buying the bike, but he's gone really well with them, both front and rear and whilst they don't have all the adjustment of the Boxxers, they actually set-up pretty well with the dataloggoing/telemetry with the spread being pretty decent.

When i bought the Boxxers i didn't know i could get the XFusions repaired so arguably i jumped the gun a little bit... but it'll be interesting to see if we can get the Boxxers better for him than the XFusions managed and see how he goes when he's back to health. We've got all winter to see and find out before making any decisions.

Weeksy jumping the gun - never!! 🤣

Weeksy jumping the gun – never!!

It's one of my stregth/weaknesses depending on how you look at it. I like things done, sorted, right... Sometimes it plays to my advantage, sometimes it bites me a bit... This one, i'm not 100% pleased, but it could have been a lot worse and it's all OK 🙂

The lowers are not really in "excellent" condition and he's done his best to take photos of them looking good, but if they move OK, and a bit of spit and polish removes the worst of the cosmetic damage, then I'd probs keep them.

My thoughts:
- Wow, is 600 really what people are paying for a SH base level Boxxer? But that's irrelevant, you were, and you did.
- I wouldn't describe them as excellent
- I'd expect a SH DH fork to be pretty battered externally. That really doesn't look too bad (ignoring the excellent part)

But crucially
- you lost the right to take advantage of his decent offer to return them the moment you fitted them to a bike. That's tacit acceptance IMHO

But crucially
– you lost the right to take advantage of his decent offer to return them the moment you fitted them to a bike. That’s tacit acceptance IMHO

Well as said, he was still happy to take them back, even afterwards..

However... i kept them anyhow.

Bit late to the party, and I don’t DH so no idea if the price is right, but agree the condition shouldn’t be listed as excellent. That said, I can see a lot of the scratches you talk about in the ad photos so not sure he’s deliberately misrepresented and since he’s offered to take them back I doubt there was any conspiracy.

If it were me and my bike I’d polish them up and get new decals, but I can understand your worry as if it were me I’d want to make things as perfect as possible for my lad.

Hope the boy is healing well, that’s a pretty painful looking crash.

@tonyd

Hope the boy is healing well, that’s a pretty painful looking crash.

Thank you, he's getting there mate, bit less delicate day by day.. he'll soon be back.

You’ve got some great answers here, so I’ll just say: on the balance of condition, price, description & the seller being willing to take them back… get that refund pronto and find a cheaper, better fork.

Ditto.

They look shagged

Excellent condition is a downright lie, the lack of close up photos of the lowers would've made me suspicious, if I was the seller I'd include photos more like yours and slightly battered lowers and rebound adjuster would be a more accurate description.
I wouldn't have asked £600 for them, but I have a conscience and like to able to sleep at night. Those pb photos made me chuckle a little, was he in the nip, the mind boggles.
Edit.
Full disclosure, I didn't even look at page two before commenting, yikes.

Yes.

They look shagged

They do. And the seller has been massively disingenuous describing as 'excellent' with very selective photo angles.

Well we’ve moved on from the discussion now

Or so you thought... 😉

Well, i've moved on.... the condition doesn't matter now... they're in the bike lol

What I don’t understand is doesn’t everyone clean up the frames and forks that they are selling and polish then up with some nice silicon spray or similar? If the decals are all scratched up I either removed them completely or replace them if I can get some dirt cheap/have spares. You can always tell someone you took them off because they didn’t match the rest of the bike or you wanted a stealth bike, etc.