Aggressive nose down saddle positions on road and gravel bikes, why?

Because their seat post is too high, usually. Sometimes from tightness in the back/hips meaning they never drop their ankles enough at the bottom of the stroke. Always pedaling on tip toes. Drop the post, flatten out the saddle, drop the ankles a bit, get the same leg extension.

Or they think they have mAssIvE BaLls. It could be the cycling equivalent of man spreading

I have never understood it either.  All my bikes are slightly nose up on the saddle otherwise i constantly slide forward.  I do have all my bikes with bars at least level with the seat if not above.  I could not ride a bike with a nose down seat and the angles some folk have them at looks absurd to me but its all personal preference?

the older I get the weirder I think people are

Or they think they have mAssIvE BaLls. It could be the cycling equivalent of man spreading

Ha, might also explain why short nose saddles are so popular, I mean, how big must your junk have to be that it's getting impeded by the very tip of the saddle!

I could not ride a bike with a nose down seat and the angles some folk have them at looks absurd to me but its all personal preference?

Yeah, I guess that's the crux of my question, I see people who are quite clearly significantly fitter/faster riders than me but just can't understand how they adapt to a saddle that looks to be 10 degrees nose down! That's why I wondered if they just had much stronger arms (I don't think core would help as strong core doesn't stop you sliding forward due to gravity).

have you looked at them when riding?  Are they sitting on the nose of the saddle?

Can't say I've noticed this on any bikes locally, but now you've got me curious I'll pay more attention. Mine are pretty much flat, though the bike on the trainer has a couple of degrees tilt down to the front, I think that's down to vagaries of saddles.

Talking of saddles, my Topstone came with a Fizik Aliante which I assumed would need replaced but it's still fitted and is working out OK. 

I run mine all flat, but given a choice of slightly nose down or slightly nose up, I'd go nose down.

the saddle I find most comfy has a distinct dip in the middle so I have it nose up but the back of the saddle I actually sit on is flat but the nose is 15 mm above the back.  Are some saddles the opposite to this so a nose down position gives you a flat bit where your sit bones are?

Many years ago in a CTC magazine I read an article that suggested the way to test the angle of the saddle was right for you was to ride no hands - if you slide back then it needs to go a bit more nose down if you slide forward it needs a bit more nose up.  Mentioned this on here once and it was loudly decried but it works for me

Many years ago in a CTC magazine I read an article that suggested the way to test the angle of the saddle was right for you was to ride no hands

Probably a good guide it you ride dutch bike style, not so good if you ride in aggressive large saddle to bar drop style.

Same article did say tops of the drops level with seat - cycle touring club. Very much old school
dutch style there is no weight on the hands at all really as you sit upright with a vertical back and bars 18" above seat 🙂

So, i look at bikes for sale and i think wtf are they thinking with their seat tilted slightly back, i mean normal bikes, not downhill or jump bikes...

If i can feel the saddle even tickling my perwhatever its angled up too far

I go level, then tip slightly more forwards, usually the the fat bit at the back is a cm higher than the nose, yes my arms are carrying me, but that's preferable to the abrasion of my sensitive areas

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, yes my hands get uncomfortable, most noticeable on the the indoor trainer, I'm 5'8" and always get a medium, my seat height is set so that my legs aren't overly extended

MTB only, but (despite a generally high'ish saddle to bar) I pretty much have them flat.

Currently got a Bel Air V3 on the ebike though and can't decide if I'm getting on with it - I spend a lot of time sat right at the back of the saddle, so the upturn feels a bit weird

There was a GCN video on it but their logic seemed a bit suspicious, e.g. as you go uphill your saddle tilts upwards, therefore you should tilt it down in anticipation. However this seems to ignore the relationship between the saddle and the bars, e.g. as you go uphill your bars tilt up the same amount as your saddle so you pelvic position doesn’t actually change.

Well yes your bars stay the same but your arms don't - as the hill gets steeper you lean more forwards over the bars. At least I do... more obvious on mtb though where you have a more upright position to start with.

Maybe it's to do with back support and something to push against to save the energy spent stopping you sliding off the back of the saddle etc etc... someone should invent a saddle that fixes this issue 😉

When I was getting my bike fit I asked about this very thing. Here's what the bike fitter told me:
- The biggest variation in saddle tilt tends to be women because the variety of saddles out there still can't quite accomodate the differences in what he called the 'fleshy anatomy'*.
- Some folk just have an unusual pelvis and saddle tilt can be a way of getting good sit-bone support while still having an acceptable hip angle.
- Some folk use it to accommodate a more agressive position on the bike, both for aero reasons but also handling. Useful for a crit racer who'll spend an hour at a time in the drops.

* only repeating euphemistic language here as I don't have the experience to know which exact bits of anatomy are most important here.

ASTR - thats rather like the saddle I have- nose up means the bit you sit on is flat.

I do have short hamstring - never been able to touch my toes and thus on the bike probably more of a backward tip to my pelvis than most.

Ha, might also explain why short nose saddles are so popular, I mean, how big must your junk have to be that it’s getting impeded by the very tip of the saddle!

Not sure about road bikes, but just fitted the a short (for some reason called 'boost') version of the SLR to K's mtb's.  Old school geometry meant you moved forward to the nose of the saddle for steep climbs, current slack HA/Steep SA means you don't need to.  A short nose saddle makes quite a difference to the effective standover and gives you more space to move around/lean the bike when standing.

I ended up down a rabbit hole trying to find the right saddle for K (before concluding that a short version of the SLR she was already riding was best) but Selle have two basic saddle shapes - flat and waved.  Which works better for your depends whether your natural pelvic position is a neutral, forward or backward tilt.  I suspect a lot of the tilted saddles you see are people compensating for riding the wrong kind of saddle, weak core, or poor bike fit (and the need to adjust is greater on road/gravel as you spend much more time in a static seated position)

I ride SLRs as well.  I've had saddles in the past that I've felt like I was sliding forward on - I think those were a wave shape that didn't work for me.

https://www.bicycling.com/training/a42468371/pelvic-tilt/

https://www.evo.com/guides/how-to-choose-bike-seat-saddle#:~:text=A%20pear%2Dshaped%20saddle%20gives,and%20help%20you%20avoid%20that.

Saddle too high. Mine are all level, with the exception of the Flite Titanium saddles, which has such a curved profile, that the front can be slightly (2-3mm) higher than the rear, this is because you sit IN the curve, not ON the end of the saddle. I like very little pressure on the wrists, and correct balance on the saddle over the BB achieves this. My drop to the bars is 6-8 cm depending on bike, and I also ride shallow drop bars, so another 8-10 cm onto the drops. I ride on the drops about 1/3 of the time, 2/3 on bikes with less drop.

Probably a good guide it you ride dutch bike style, not so good if you ride in aggressive large saddle to bar drop style.

It works well there as well.
Get on the trainer, wind your power output up to "normal" and then take your hands of the bars. Should be so-so balanced, if you aren't, you're probably putting too much load through your hands/arms.

Wouldn't fancy it when coasting though.

Stumpy and road bike get ridden in Warwickshire, which is pretty flat, saddles are pretty much level.

G1 & Kenevo Sl only get ridden uphill, saddle noses slightly down on both so I'm sat on my sit bones and not sliding back.

I blame Chris Porter for the whole down saddle abomination

I'm also in the flat in the middle club so that just looks hideously uncomfortable. I can't get my head around the kind of riding that CP does - is he only sitting down when riding steep uphills? What does he do the rest of the time? I know he 's a bit of a fashion leader in some respects but this just looks like a affectation too far.

I have one of those quirky/beaky Selle SMP saddles, which many riders find most comfy with the front peak ~14mm lower than the rear peak.

But I also don't get that most pro road riders seem to only sit on the tip of their saddle, you will see an inch or so spare behind their bum. If I move even slightly forward from the back of my saddle I feel violated.

And for the ultimate saddle tilt, who remembers Jaroslav Kuhlhavy(sic?)

ASTR – thats rather like the saddle I have- nose up means the bit you sit on is flat.

I may try tilting it up a bit. But I do get numb nuts/todger when climbing, so prefer to keep the pressure off my perinium

When I did an Everest I tilted my saddle down at the approx angle of the uphill (10%) on account of the fact that was where I was spending 80% of my time. Put it back flat afterwards though

Everyone’s different, so what may look ridiculous and “aggressive” to you may be simply comfortable to someone else. I don’t angle my saddles much at all, just a bit nose down - but I really hate how they feel nose up, even if that’s caused by my suspension sagging more at the back than the front.

Astr.  I have zero weight on my perineum.   All thebweight on my sit bones

When I've had a little lay off from spending, I might invest in an Aenomoly Switchgrade for the HT

For starters, I lost all faith in CGN when Doddy remarked about how great shimano cup and cone bearings were. Such pis@.

GCN seem to be following the industry, not leading.

As for nose-down, aggressive, ‘aero’ positions?

These will only suit one third of the population.

Even amongst people if the same height, there’s a lot of variability in people’s limb to torso ratios.

Long limbed people have more exposed seatposts. They will also be perched further back, and will need a higher handlebar position to compensate for any pressure on their perineum

People with shorter limbs will have less exposed seatpost, and won’t be perched so further forward.

Kind of baffles me why Specialized’s Chisel Mtb has such a low front end.

That is only aero or remotely comfortable for a third of the population.

It would be uneconomical for bike companies to offer their bikes in sizes to suit the extremes of body shape, as well.

But I’d rather Specialized offered the Chisel frame in a more neutral shape.

As for gravel bikes, I’m puzzled by their steep seat angles.

Given the amount of time their riders spend in the saddle, you’d be looking for a much slacker seat tube angle.

As Greg Lemond remarked, a slacker seat tube angle allowed him to extract every last kilo joule of energy from his thigh muscles…