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Come on then, own up you agressive park terrorists.
[url= http://m.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/14095654.Aggressive_mountain_bikers_are_terrorising_country_park_estate__warns_its_chairman/?ref=fbshr ]Link[/url]
a) Nothing has actually happened
b) Horses do more damage to trails/footpaths than a bike ever will
c) I just don't believe their story
Yes, I'm sure they threatened to ride their bikes into horses...
Not guilty....... I would never wear lycra.
'These kids today, with the hair and the clothes...'
the whole story is a bit suspect but this really stands out...
'If you don't get out of the way we'll ram the horses'
Terribly written article by a journo who clearly couldn't believe their luck at being handed it on a plate by some red-socked nimbyist. Or thought to check the facts.
As above- complete storm in a teacup. Cyclists threatening to ram horses- wtf?!!!
Terribly written article by a journo who clearly couldn't believe their luck at being handed it on a plate by some red-socked nimbyist. Or thought to check the facts.
As above- complete storm in a teacup. Cyclists threatening to ram horses- wtf?!!!
You should post that summary on the website.
Oh come on, who hasn't rammed a horse or two when they've been out terrorising walkers with their bike gang before?
Local riders should contact the editor about this though, highlighting the sensationalist tone and the more improbable claims.
Is there a local group that could put themselves up for a follow-up piece?
I'll let my dad know. He rides around there. He's 72.
I don't know if I clocked 32mph down Altar Lane when I raced it on a tandem in 1991 at Nemba Bingley but pretty sure JMC did.
Yep. Cos I'd ram a couple of hundred pounds of highly strung unstable unpredictable Nutjob. Or their horse.
Looks like they're checking Strava, so names of the evil-doers should be following.
Jeremy Copeland. He's KOM for most of Airedale isn't he 🙂
More sensationalist self injected 'news' from Pam Luckin
"We reckon people are throwing about 80 loaves a day into Coppice Pond," said the group's chairman, Pam Laking
Another made up number me thinks.
"One of the problems is the bikes have no registration numbers"
And the horses do?
Bet they were on E bikes.
Except cyclists they can **** right off.The Friends of St. Ives is a voluntary group established in 2003 to help protect and preserve St. Ives Estate for the enjoyment of all estate users.
I'm not a mountain biker. I am British and male. I have hobbies and interests. I like driving and cycling so does that make me a mcycling motorist?
I'm not a mountain biker
Burn him!!!!
Local riders should contact the editor about this though, highlighting the sensationalist tone and the more improbable claims.
Is there a local group that could put themselves up for a follow-up piece?
My first thought was to write a follow up piece but there's little point. The friends of st ives put stop to purpose built trails being built by singletraction some years ago because of their fears of the area becoming overridden by mountain bikers (obviously worried we may ram horses). The paper is a tory rag and attracts mindless depressed idiots commenting upon bullshit stories.
I don't know why shes worried about 'gangs' of cyclists at night when she and her fellow FOSI will clearly be tucked up in bed with their baseball bats under the pillows.
Horses do more damage to trails/footpaths than a bike ever will
Not so sure about that
She's probably got a point about the "strava" thing though....
Obviously for most people it's just a bit of fun/a way of logging miles; but you'll always get the sad acts that take it too seriously.
It's bad enough on the road (my brother's got some amusing tales about the ultra competitive middle aged men at his road club), but at least you'll only hurt yourself. On popular off road trails where you're gonna encounter other users, it's stupid/selfish.
Maybe they can get the segments permanently erased from Strava?
Not so sure about that
There's been some (not very well done) research. As long as your mtber isn't developing 20+ kw. Or skidding like a 10 year old kid. Horses do more damage. IIRC, the worse the trail conditions, the more impact the horse has.
"all Lycra and helmets"
Oooh errr 😛
No Strava segment on Blind Lane, might have a ride up next weekend, anyone else fancy it? We can invite the Telegraph & Argus along.
"The view of the general public is that some mountain bikers have got far too big for their boots and we need to manage interaction between them and other users of places like St Ives," he said.
This was my favourite bit. It was this sort of thing that culminated in the Peasants' Revolt of 1381...
I'm with Hora, you mountain biking scum
langylad - Member
I'm with Hora
Wait til I see binners.
I hope she hasn't watched Chris Akrigg's Trail Trials 🙂
I like the bit where they're extra offended by people riding bikes when there's nobody else there.
Also, they say "the riders are all lycra", everyone knows aggressive xxxc needs baggies.
I attended a mixed group walk round St Ives when we were hoping to build the trail.
Council bloke was well up for it.
Rights of way lady was really cool.
Friends of St Ives lady said that it was only a matter of time before we killed a child. I enquired as to how many near misses? Answer, none.
Bird watching oddball clearly wished that all of us would just leave him alone with his feathered friends.
Horsey lady was the most frightfull gobshite I had ever met and just wanted a wide smooth track to gallop on.
Me, I just listened a lot and realised how impossible it is to please everybody. Glad I'm a barber.
Oh well as we were then ride on.... 😀
I'd have thought the lads parked up smoking dope would be a bigger issue. Think of the children and all that.
Can't understand what night riding has to do with it,it's on the bridleways and I've never come across a horse at night.
an historic
didn't get further than this ^^^
It's just simple bigotry.
I've tried many times to reason with people of that narrow minded view and now I just don't bother. In fact I make an effort to be extra nice and polite because it seems to annoy them even more. Probably because I don't then fit into their mountain biker = satanic, antisocial animal mindset
The same happened a few years ago on Ilkley moor, when some local buffoon wanted rid of mountain bikers and came up with a load of made up near-miss and horror stories. Ilkley gazette lapped it up until they realised most of it wasn't true
I attended a mixed group walk round St Ives when we were hoping to build the trail.
Is that the same occasion when one of them refused to talk to Tim directly, addressing him through a third party instead?. 😆
They're not all unreasonable, but a few on the committee are hardcore and tick every box of the unreasonable retired middle class busybody, it's no surprise that an unfortunate isolated incident has been jumped on to make a big deal of.
They've had an issue with night riding for quite a long time, essentially all the nocturnal creatures are going to die of fright or pack their bags or stuff to that effect. The fact is that those creatures are more likely to see/hear you coming long before you see them, but they see it as an assault on their habitat.
Their core argument around mtbers disturbing flora and fauna is a joke. Mtber are always going to stick to the tracks and are transient, causing minimal disturbance, were as they're quite happy for people's darling little fido to rummage in the undergrowth many metres off the paths, crap everywhere, chase furry little animals and disturb nesting birds. Yet that's not an issue to them as some of them are dog owners and it's all quite acceptable.
Is that the same occasion when one of them refused to talk to Tim directly, addressing him through a third party instead?.
Really? That's just weird.
Yes, according to Tim and as you know he's about the nicest most reasonable articulate person you could meet, but that guy had clearly made his judgements long before any meetings. Just childish behaviour I guess and those sorts aren't going to be open to adult discussion.
blairc70 - Member
No Strava segment on Blind Lane, might have a ride up next weekend, anyone else fancy it? We can invite the Telegraph & Argus along.
You need to zoom in/toggle around, the estate is covered in them multiple times incl. up and down Blind Lane. Brant's right, most KOM's held by his mate.
Yep Paul, that would be the same day 🙁
brakes - Member"an historic"
didn't get further than this ^^^
One can only assume the journalist is a cockney who is dropping their "haitches".
Terribly written article by a journo who clearly couldn't believe their luck at being handed it on a plate by some red-socked nimbyist. Or thought to check the facts.
Exactly what I thought. A total fairytale dreamt up by a NIMBY who once saw someone on a bike who, as they rode past, smiled and said hello and were met with silence.
To me it sounds like they need something to keep the riders in one place maybe. Something like a purpose built trail? That'd be ludicrous though...
[quoteSomething like a purpose built trail? That'd be ludicrous though
Wouldn't it just.
While I agree the article is lazy, and the NIMBY is strong in this one....
Having been 'passed' at the weekend by a small bunch of riders on a busy path, who seemed intent on moar Strava times, despite weaving in and out of toddlers and OAP's, I can also see how the actions of a few idiots supports the NIMBY's attitudes.
Interesting thread and link to article from the next valley. http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showthread.php?22622-Ilkley-Moor-MTB-ing/page3. seems there are more than a few nobs in the area with little regard for other users, I have encountered full on strava segment basters on footpaths on sunny Sundays when the moor is teeming. I use the same trails, but not at that time of the day or week.
Just wait until they are all on ebikes
That was my thought. They'll be longing for the halcyon days of gangs of bikers on mere push-bikes. 🙂Just wait until they are all on ebikes
I can't think these people are worth engaging with since their view is not up for being changed and their viewpoint is clearly set in stone.
from memory, and someone will correct me I'm sure, but wasn't some funding they were applying for dependent on the park being open access for everyone, not just those with a dobbin and a range rover? It is a shame that the trail building has come to a (enforced) halt since it would have benefited the area. With their viewpoint and facts being clearly not up for debate, I would save yourself the hassle and just walk away. Keep riding through the area and batter them with polite kindness.
Times and speeds are then logged on internet sites and I saw one where someone had clocked 32mph going down Blind Lane.Those times are posted as challenges for others to beat
Strava is a total gift to NIMBYs, isn't it. This is the second time in a fortnight that I've seen a "friends of" group using it to try and justify retrictions on MTBing. The previous one even had instructions on how to use it to "gather evidence".
Strava is a total gift to NIMBYs, isn't it
This. It not only shows how much riders are using certain areas (inc footpaths) but I also shows they are seeking to "race" / beat the clock
I think 'an historic' is correct, same as 'an hotel'
I also shows they are seeking to "race" / beat the clock
Not necessarily. Lots of people just run it to track rides or compare fitness. It's not particularly accurate either, unless you're using a proper GPS unit. And playing devil's advocate, it's not evidence that dangerous cycling took place.
None of which makes a difference of course. OMG CYCLISTS GOING AT THE SPEED OF MY CAR.
Are those people related to the New Forest Commoners?
Strava is a total gift to NIMBYs, isn't it. This is the second time in a fortnight that I've seen a "friends of" group using it to try and justify retrictions on MTBing. The previous one even had instructions on how to use it to "gather evidence".
It Has the potential to be - unless we learn how to play it, because high levels of recorded use with little or no recorded conflict could rapidly hoist them on their own petard. "You're pointing out one incident out of X thousand recorded rides, and that's just from a small percentage of the enthusiasts" and "look, we can prove that your concerns are unfounded as there are X hundred cyclists already riding it without any recorded complaints"
I think 'an historic' is correct, same as 'an hotel'
An hotel? Are you a lunatic?
One can only assume the journalist is a cockney who is dropping their "haitches".
'An historic' is correct. Sorry sbob.
It Has the potential to be - unless we learn how to play it
Sadly I think that's the only option left, given how Strava and the MTB community have declined to restrict its use on RoWs. At least using it to organise mate's races seems to have died a death.
Cllr Cook has hit on the nub of it - "The view of the general public is that some mountain bikers have got [b]far too big for their boots[/b]..." That's what's really winding them up. We all need to get smaller feet or something.
We all need to get smaller feet or something.
Mint Imperial to the thread, please...
No, he's an healthy, normal guyAn hotel? Are you a lunatic?
Edit: BTW I don't condone the use of "an historic". The h is pronounced and breathy. It might sound correct in certain accents, in which case it can be said 'an' and could be written in a quotation.
e.g. "It's an historic occasion innit!" said the American actor, trying out his English accent.
SOGGY bread uneaten by ducks is carpeting the bottom of an important pond at the St Ives estate near Bingley and threatening its natural balance.
Can I just say this isn't me 😳 if my 5 yr old throws bread in and the ducks don't eat it, I make he jump in and scoop it out. Yes even yesterday when there was a layer of thin ice 😈
All things considered, unfortunately if we do need to listen to these people, whether its feeding ducks or about riding bikes, they will influence, and kids will end up crying because they cant feed the ducks.
'An historic' is correct.
The Guardian uses 'a historic'...
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-a ]http://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-a[/url]
[i][b]a or an before H?[/b]
Use an before a silent H: an heir, an hour, an honest politician, an honorary consul; use a before an aspirated H: a hero, a hotel, a historian (but don't change a direct quote if the speaker says, for example, "an historic"). With abbreviations, be guided by pronunciation: eg an LSE student[/i]
Get someone on the committee
Come on then, own up you agressive park terrorists
I think the OP rides up there quite a bit 🙄
I do think Strava has a lot to answer for though....it makes normally quite sane riders into crazy speed/time obsessed individuals who will do ANYTHING to beat their previous times and those of their mates.
and thats just me! 😳
There's been some (not very well done) research. As long as your mtber isn't developing 20+ kw. Or skidding like a 10 year old kid. Horses do more damage. IIRC, the worse the trail conditions, the more impact the horse has
A horse does perhaps chew up the ground significantly more BUT
The Tracks left by bike leave a clear channel with no obstructions that water will flow freely down, that can wash a path away and destroy it for quicker than a horse.
if my 5 yr old throws bread in and the ducks don't eat it, I make he jump in and scoop it out.
Shredded cabbage is much more healthy for the ducks...
There's a mental bitch who leaves bread out for the horses on Greenham Common :/
The Tracks left by bike leave a clear channel with no obstructions that water will flow freely down, that can wash a path away and destroy it for quicker than a horse.
Got any evidence for this? If not, I'll file it under "recycled gibberish that TJ used to spout".
An Historic
You've a chap called Charles Macklin to thank....Long story short, he was an Irish actor who realised that he could make money from teaching voice coaching to the recently wealthy country bumpkins so that they could ingratiate themselves into polite society in the mid to late 1800's. it was him that decided that the 'L' shouldn't be pronounced in Should, Could etc and that the 'H' should be dropped from Historic, and Hunting (and the for that matter the 'G' at then end of -ing words...) which gave rise to the problem of the pronoun 'a' or 'an' depending on vowel/consonant starting letter, hence to our ears the anachronistic
"An historic"...because you; Shud be sayin' 'istoric. To be polite...
Truly amateur poor quality journalism by Chris Tate of the Telegraph & Argus there. Does he take calls from anyone, take their word for truth and print it all of the time? I'd suggest he takes up another profession... maybe get a job delivering campaign mail for his local MP or something.
To be fair, it's not like the rest of the country's press are setting a better example.Truly amateur poor quality journalism by Chris Tate of the Telegraph & Argus there. Does he take calls from anyone, take their word for truth and print it all of the time? I'd suggest he takes up another profession... maybe get a job delivering campaign mail for his local MP or something.
glasgowdan - Member
Truly amateur poor quality journalism by Chris Tate of the Telegraph & Argus there. Does he take calls from anyone, take their word for truth and print it all of the time?
You could be right, give it a go!
A warning poster or two will certainly put the wind up the would-be horse-rammers among us. That must be administrator shorthand for 'we can do f-all about it'.
I've always found the horseriders polite and friendly when I'm up that way, although I'm still half expecting the 'Neidermeyer's horse' moment when I pass them up by the golf course.
Story also on page 9 of today's Telegraph & Argus. They've changed the title to [b]Mountain bikers "abuse vistors"[/b] in big bold type.
Waiting to see which T&A 'big hitter' writes about bad cyclists to the 'Letters & Web-posts' page in tomorrow's issue.
Best thing would be for local mountain bikers to set up a group and also call themselves the friends of st ives. And then start issuing press releases about abusive ramblers and horse riders, also highlight the damage those two groups create tramping about the place.
nah, it is another factor in soil erosion, just don't think anyones been organised enough to do any proper tests.The Tracks left by bike leave a clear channel with no obstructions that water will flow freely down, that can wash a path away and destroy it for quicker than a horse.
Got any evidence for this? If not, I'll file it under "recycled gibberish that TJ used to spout".
"We also have a major problem with gangs of up to 30 going up in the dark and using headlamps to tear all over the estate doing a lot of damage when no-one's about to stop them.
If they're a major problem it shouldn't be too hard for Chris Tate to find one of these gangs and speak to them, or evidence of the damage they are causing. But that would involve doing some work.
I use the area fairly regularly, so this news is unwelcome.
If it's true (and I'm not saying it is) that a group of MTB riders have verbally abused another visitor to St Ives Estate, then that is indeed a shame. Irrespective of the provocation, it's best to remain calm and always be polite and reasonable.
Looking at the posts above, is there (or was there) a MTB group liaising with 'The Friends of St Ives'?
Realisticaly, If the reporter belives it plausible that Mountain bikers would 'ram' horses, then it is also entirely plausible that walkers would be able to 'ram' cyclists, it's ludicrous.. I wonder if they'd publish that if someone reported it?
I can see the headlines now, defenceless cyclist hit by speeding walker.
I mean really, the only thing a cyclist could expect to achive from ramming a horse is a buckled wheel and a bit of a trampling, so probably a broken spine and a fractured skull to boot.