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Hi Chaps,
I sold a Turner 5-Spot frame on here a few weeks back, buy received and was dead happy. I knocked the price down by about £170 overall, and the postage came in at like £50 with the insurance, so I didn't really get value for money on the sale, but the buyer seems like a nice chap - so I was happy to sell cheaper.
After a few rides the buyer has stated that the bushes are worn, and need replacing. The kit is about £120 from Silverfish, which he has asked me to cover.
The problem is, I'm very sensitve to any wobbles or anything loose, and didn't notice anything at all when I've ridden it.
But, I can't see why the buyer wouldn't be telling the truth either - there's not much to gain by getting a new bushing kit for a frame that doens't need it - if that was the case.
My only concern is that the buyer did say that he thought there was some play some tightened the pivot bolts as much as he could. Now, if you do that to aluminium pivot bolts they will mushroom and then create a lot of slop and play, as the fit is totally wrong.
I'm not really sure what to do, I sold the frame as honestly as possible - but I also don't want to feel like I've screwed anyone over.
What would you guys do? If it was the other way round I'd probably be pretty annoyed. My other thought it to speak with Greg at Turner over the phone a get him to help out - although it's not my bike now, so I can't play with it to get it right.
Cheers
Ricks
buy unseen get what you get.
If the new owner has been tightening random bolts to sort out a perceived problem then I'd say they were on their own.
I tend to take the view with stuff I buy that once I've built it up and it's had a ride or two it's down to me to sort out anything that goes wrong.
[b]After a few rides[/b] the buyer has stated that the bushes are worn, and need replacing
buyer sorts it. If it'd been spotted out-of-the-box then possibly some moral comeback but not once its been used a few times.
The buyer purchased second hand so must have known/expected a bill would be forthcoming. Perhaps not this soon. Maybe go 50/50. You didn't know/didn't try to hide it.
I'd say unless you specifically claimed that it had new bushings (which I guess you didn't) then it is the buyers problem!
Tell him nice try. Why would you pay for repairs to someone else's bike?
Sold as seen, no comeback.
For all you know he's ridden it everyday though mud and grot and never cleaned it. Plus he's been dicking about with it, so he may have inadvertently caused the problem in the first place.
Its unfortunate, but thats what happens with second hand stuff.
He got £170 off it, so he's still got £50 to play with after he's bought the bushing kit.
Buyers risk
take it on the chin - that's one of the risks of buying second hand
...and don't buy unseen again
....and find somewhere cheaper to buy bushes!
My only concern is that the buyer did say that he thought there was some play some tightened the pivot bolts as much as he could. Now, if you do that to aluminium pivot bolts they will mushroom and then create a lot of slop and play, as the fit is totally wrong.
The pivots/bushes on these frames are very precise/susceptible to the torque settings recommended.
He has basically admitted how he has destroyed them in the above quote.
https://www.turnerbikes.com/all-turner-faqs/turnertech/basic-turner-manitenance
Tell him - politely - to jog on!
Why is a second hand frame so much cheaper than a new one? It's not because it has a few scratches. It will get those after the first couple of rides anyway. It's because it has no warranty.
After a few rides
So you advertised at 750 and got back just over 500?
Did you sell the frame with a guarantee?
If I bought some 2010 forks and two rides later it started leaking oil should I contact the seller?
If the forks worked out of the box then thats it. When do you stop/is there a certain period?
[b]If you deliberately mislead the buyer
There was a crack found when unpacking
Or within a couple of weeks a blatant dangerous botch is spotted
Then yes a buyer should have comeback.
Bushes and bearings- at time of sale fine, after this period can NOT be guaranteed. They are consumables. [/b]
Does he ride in the Peaks or surrey hills? Does he jetwash his bike? Do you know how he cleans his bike?
No. Tell him to foxtrot oscar- send him my comment.
The buyer would get my sympathy but not my money.
He's got a 5 spot frame for £170 after presumably screwing you down on price. Tell him to jog on
[i]He's got a 5 spot frame for £170[/i]
well £170 less than the asking price, anyway.
It is a tough one, you don't want to be a seller who sold something with a known issue but you also don't want to be a pushover.
I would either tell him to do one or get him to send the frame back and you refund his money
I've bought a used frame... on its way. If it squeeks after a few rides I'd look for the cheapest way into new bearings.
That'd be via google not the seller.
From memory Turner 5spots (still) had a reputation for going through bushes etc at that age/year?
You only Get SOGA protection buying new from a shop right?
I think you'll have to be a bit hard nosed here OP, nice fella or not, if I was buying a used frame I'd expect it to have some wear and tear and maybe need new bearings/bushes etc.
Its just par for the course and part of the gamble you take buying used kit in general, you might have years of fault free use from it, it might be on the cusp of total failure, you're hoping to save 50%+ and find the former, but there's no come back in the latter case. Factor this in to what you are willing to spend BEFORE you buy something...
You've not miss-sold anything, after a months use a used bike frame has started to show its age and needs some work, the buyer needs to suck it up, or else find the small print in the non-existent guarantee that means you now have to replace parts on what is now HIS bike...
Replacing the bushes are part of owning a bike - you ride it and bits wear out. Ok, they may have worn sooner than the buyer expected but I would suggest he had unfair expectations on a secondhand frame. If he had mentioned the bushes straight away then maybe morally you might want to pay or go 50/50 but not after a few weeks.
I think he's trying it on, as everyone else has suggested. Politely suggest this is part of bike ownership.
If I was buying a 2nd hand FS frame, I would already have budgeted for a service kit.
Replacing the bushes are part of owning a bike - you ride it and bits wear out. Ok, they may have worn sooner than the buyer expected but I would suggest he had unfair expectations on a secondhand frame. If he had mentioned the bushes straight away then maybe morally you might want to pay or go 50/50 but not after a few weeks.
I think he's trying it on, as everyone else has suggested. Politely suggest this is part of bike ownership.
+1 does it really need ALL them changing at the sametime- ALL worn out?
From memory Turner 5spots (still) had a reputation for going through bushes etc at that age/year?
They tend to last ages, if you strip them out and clean them. Don't bother with the grease ports - a waste of time. On my HL Turner they lasted 6 years.
Back to the OP
If you kept the old bushes, then send him those, I'm sure he could fangle a solution from the combination of the old and the new. Alternatively, how about you split the difference on these:
[url= http://www.tftunedshox.com/Catalogue/PUSH/PUSH/PUSH-Parts ]TFTuned[/url]
Or just tell him he screwed up.
Hth
Mark
You don't tighten those pivot bolts as much as you can - they have specific torques which you need to respect. As the buyer didn't I would say that he is on his own...
I would forward him this thread, all good responses and I think they all highlight that it's not really your problem, harsh as it may seem to him.
think its fairly clear on the Turner page where it says about checking the pivot bolts
[b]DO NOT Perform this check unless you have and know how to use a Torque Wrench.
Continued overtightening of the pivot bolts may result in pivot bolt failure and injury, which will NOT be covered under any warranty.[/b]
their frame so their problem
As far as you know he broke them and now wants you to pay
they haggled hard so tell them to use the money they saved to buy the kit
Laugh at any threat of litigation
Caveat emptor and all that