[Closed] Aero road bike rims

50 is fine for me.

I've got 55's and they're fine most of the time, the occasional moment in strong winds but nothing to worry about. Still debating a pair of 30's as pure climbing wheels mind you...

wouldn't bother, nothing in it

I thought 40 mm (ish) was the generally accepted depth for an all rounder. Deep enough to give an aero advantage, light enough to climb, and not too troubled by gusty winds.

I've been thinking about this and have gone round in circles.

The Roval CLX 50's are a claimed 1415g for the disk brake version, so lighter than my DT Swiss DB28C wheels.  Plus they are much wider (20.7mm internal vs 15mm), which would be great for my 28c tyres.

My concern is wind, especially living on the Isle of Man I am always cycling in wind, even on calm days, the wind off the sea and on the hills can pick up, and be gusty.

I do wonder if my current wheels are not that good in the wind due to big tyres on narrow rims.  I found this document on the Industry Nine site about their new i9.45 wheels sets:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-eNt_hGZup4pls0XHf2MCPNQZgIw2BLRXtMvZyHc7wE/edit

35 to 40?

I've got 50mm wheels which I sometimes ride between races when I can't be bothered to change for the sake of a recovery ride. They do catch the wind a bit in blustery conditions, it's not much of a problem (except when trying to ride no-handed stuffing arm warmers etc. into pockets) but I think I'd go a touch shallower for all-rounders.

I got a set of 50 mm and the aero advantage far outweighs the wind issue Imo. You do feel it more certainly.. But anything up to 15/16 mph winds not an issue

I also had some 35 mm a while back and they weren't noticibly faster than normal rims, whereas the 50 mm give me a measureable speed advantage on the flats

What do you mean by not an issue to 15/16 mph.  I'm often out in winds of those speed or higher, so that would rule out any type of deep rim.

What do you mean by not an issue to 15/16 mph

I assume thats your speed, not wind speed....

Nope. That's the wind speed! I don't usually ride in winds higher than that so can't comment on riding them in a gale. I probably wouldn't tbf.

Are these your only wheels?

I’m in a very fortunate situation of having 6 road bikes all with deep wheels ranging from 30 to 60mm.

I think the bike geometry has more to do with how effected they are by wind than the depth.

the reason I think this is because my main three bikes have the same wheels but feel VERY different in the wind.

The pickenflick is least effected by wind and has 42mm reynolds disc wheels.

the Cannondale synapse is also ok with the same wheels. No issues unless is gusty in the 15mph range.

yet my cervelo s3 has the non disc version but is terrible to terrifying depending on mild wind conditions.

just getting overtaken my trucks can lead to a moment. Could be th deep frame section adding to the effect.

on a still day it’s so damn fast with anything over a 40mm depth.

I’m not sure If head angle, wheels base or something else would cause the difference ?

Note. I’m 75kg 5,10 and riding 1600k a month so all bikes get used frequently.

I've just bought some Roval CLX32 disc after getting caught on the top of Mt Ventoux in a 'draught'  The 46's were very interesting with 50-60mph decent with a 50mph cross wind!

While I avoid 50mph winds if I can, during winter I can be out in up to 30mph winds.  I also prefer to have one set of wheels, so a 32 might be a better choice, or more likely keeping my existing wheels, even if they recommend max 23c tyres.

It it would probably be nice to live somewhere with less wind...

If you tend to ride in strong wind, I'd avoid anything over 32 like the plague,  I'd just get a wide shallow rim.

I ride a 60/90 mm combination and the profile is more important than the depth. 45 mm you will barely notice. 60 is where to stop. Hed Jet 6 are fantastic, and have an alloy braking surface.

Thanks for the comments chaps. Though I'm considering a number of options my current favourite are Campagnolo Bora One's ,basically because I loved the Campag Zonda wheels on my previous bike - basically bullet proof on the crappy country lanes around me and just rode nice, can't really put my finger on it. The Bora's come in 35mm and 50mm depths and I'm not sure the 35's will give any significant aero gain so looking to the 50's. The main reason I'm focusing on aero is because I'm targeting a number of longer distance (for me at least) cycling events over the next 18 months or so, so currently in training for those. Weight not a priority. Just don't want to be faffing swapping wheels if there is more than a gnat's fart of wind out there.

Braking surface not a consideration as they will be disk brake wheels. Another bonus with Bora's are they are optimised around 25 and 28mm tyres, where alot of others seem mostly to be optimised around 23/25mm tyres which gives me the option for wider tyres, again a nice option for the crappy roads around me.

I will have a second set of wheels, the set the bike came with, but I want to keep them back for winter and light gravel/cinder track action so will run 32c tyres on them, so again, don't want to have to swap them on a nice but slightly windy day/blustery day.

Unless you’re getting to pretty high speeds all the time the difference between a 35 and a 50mm rim will make next to sod all difference. 1 or 2w maybe.  In fact looking at data some companies 30 odd mm rims out perform others 50mm rims any way.

I chose mine as they were supposed to be pretty Aero, but can ride them anytime.  Clearly they’re not as fast as deeper wheels, but I don’t road race anymore so not actually bothered in the slightest about Aero.

Aero research has proven shaving legs and arms give a bigger aero gain than “deep” wheels.

doesnt look as cool though 🙂

I use 404s and older cosmic carbones.  cosmics are noticebly more grabby.  steady strong winds are fine you just learn to lean in.  I have problems in strong gusty conditions which you get occasionally in the new forest when open sections are punctuated by small clumps of trees.

I'm thinking about getting a deeper set

not sure about the hairy arm/leg I'm alot quicker for the same power output with 404s

I guess a lot depends on your average speeds, if you’re riding high averages often enough then go for the 50 for a slight gain.

If you’re tootling around cafe stops on them all winter then go for something shallower that won’t put you in a hedge.

If you are racing, yes, absolutely:

Crits - 50-60mm,
GC Road - Two sets depending on location; a climbing pair / windy day pair can be very helpful.

If you don't race:

There is absolutely no need to buy deep section carbon wheels as the rims are short-life consumables.

Frankly the idea of deep section carbon clinchers is a punter-trap if there ever was one.

Just buy a nice set of tubeless compatiable wide-ish rims with excellent bearings that are easily servicable. Hunt aero wide's would be fine, or CERO AR30's or whatever.

How are carbon clinchers short life consumables? Are you referring to rim brake rims? I'm running disks so is there any reason why carbon rims are not as durable or long lasting as alloy rims if you take out the rim brake wear issue?

my logic is that for longer rides you're getting slightly more aero benefit over a longer period of time and therefore better for longer distance...I don't think aero benefit is just for high speed, though that is where it's main benefit is. I chug along the flat nicely though, if no wind I can maintain a good 21 - 23mph on the flat for long periods of time, a bit faster on a nicer smooth road surface, and as I get fitter and maybe loose a bit of timber I'll get a bit faster (definitely up the hills). I've got a half decent body position, so not much to be gained there unless I start dressing like a TT rider.

But my question is (if you’re not racing). What does it matter how much faster they make you?  Faster for what, getting to the cafe or home 22 seconds quicker??  I must admit I don’t get Aero claims for non racing applications.

It's fun to go fast. Innit.

If you're running discs then no - they aren't much more consumable than alloy rims unless cheaply made.

Deep aero rins will be a drawback in high winds or up any ride with an avg grad of 5-6%, but be faster on the flats, steady climbs and downhills.

But if you aren't racing why do you need them? You certainly won't feel the speed increase unless you're sat comparing your power to speed at a consistent position?

Keep your current wheels and buy tubs and a power meter if you want to race. I'd rather be working harder and getting fitter than bragging about esoteric flat ride mph in groups.

It’s fun to go fast. Innit.

agreed, but if you're on your own, would you notice the time difference to the other pair of wheels?  I think not.

looking a berk with an aero lid and speed socks, no thanks.  Never sacrifice style for speed!

IME there is appreciable value in Aero, so of your after some PB’s then go big 50/60 Campag Bullets etc but every day 35/40 is gets some gains and less of the downside.

As others have said its less wind MPH more the riding past a gap a farm hedgerow on a blustery day that pushes you a foot or two to the side that is uncomfortable.

Plus tbh who wants to go on a social ride with mates to a cafe with 60mm rims wooshing away, its just not cool.

surely the 'speed doesn't matter' arguement can be applied to any bike upgrade if not used for race purposes?

Why do you need a carbon frame, lighter wheels,better tuned shock? If speed only matters to racers, then why don't all non racers just not ride bottom spec equipment?

The amount of timesI've heard on here that the latest wonder enduro bike has knocked time off a strava pb...noone ever says 'who cares, you aren't racing'.

Aero wheels are only about speed though, most folk are clued up enough to know that, and that the other upgrades you mention don't make you much faster, if at all.

Why do you need a carbon frame, lighter wheels,better tuned shock? If speed only matters to racers, then why don’t all non racers just not ride bottom spec equipment?

Some kit works better and feels better, so it's worth it, wether it makes you faster or not, just makes the ride more enjoyable.

The amount of timesI’ve heard on here that the latest wonder enduro bike has knocked time off a strava pb…noone ever says ‘who cares, you aren’t racing’.

I would tbh, I don't give a rats ass about strava.  I did my time racing people head to head, not time trialling a leader board.  each to their own though.

Lighter wheels and a lighter frame don't make you faster? Why do folks buy ridiculously long,slack and low bikes? I'm shit yet can get down most stuff on my xc bike relatively safely...as could most folks

Why do folks upgrade, or buy the latest bikes then..I'm all ears ? (obviously there is the tart factor, which similarly applies to carbon aero wheels)

 just makes the ride more enjoyable.

Well in that case if I can go further for less effort on aero wheels then does that count as being more enjoyable? I'd say it probably does

Besides...IMO they improves the look of any modern bike,which is a benefit in itself!

Weight makes very little difference to speed, yes. Does make the bike nicer to ride tho. Aero rims are generally heavier.

"But if you aren’t racing why do you need them?"

I'm not interested in speed, I'd like to get a bit faster over the ground of course, who wouldn't, but I'm not racing.....Is there not also a benefit from being more aero for longer distances, say if you're doing a century ride or something? A more aerodynamic car will use less fuel for a given journey all else being equal, that is a fact, so by the same physics a more aerodynamic human powered a bike will use less energy over a long distance all else being the same. You can cash in that efficiency for speed if you're racing, or even just going out for a short blast on the bike so can give it a bit more welly than you would if you were doing a longer ride, but aero gains are not limited just for speed and the racers. Efficiency will benefit everyone no matter what they're doing on their bike.

It's another discussion if the cash investment compared to the small gains are worth it...but that is the same argument for every bit of kit you buy for your bike - but that is where the tart factor kicks in... £160 bib shorts vs. £40 ones, £1000 groups vs. a £300 one etc. the same can be applied to cars, homes, holiday's, clothing labels, the supermarkets we shop at etc. We're all over-life'd full stop, so being over biked shouldn't be a big surprise.

I accept everything people say about 35's vs. 50's so 35's probably the better bet for one Wheelset to rule them all.

Weight makes very little difference to speed, yes. Does make the bike nicer to ride tho.

Nonsense..my 7kg cabon road bike is measuarably quicker up a hill than my 9kg winter bike for the same power - that is a fact based on 3 years of using a powermeter on both

And why is a lighter bike nicer  to ride than a heavy one? One of the reasons is that it takes less effort for same result...a bit like carbon aero wheels. On an mtb there are other advantages, but for a road bike the main advantage of a light bike is that it is faster...Its certainly not more comfortable.its not more durable,  and in the case of my good road bike its also alot less verstile.

Of course weight matters on climbs, pro rata against power, but nothing more. Overall, it's much less significant than people believe (and want to believe).

The gains from aero wheels are so small they cannot be felt.

The lighter bike feels more responsive, that's why it's nicer to ride.

aero wheels make a difference in my experience.  for the same power I'll be around 0.5-1mph faster depending on wind conditions.

switching from my steel commuter (which is quite nicely spec'd but sensible) to my carbon aero bike is worth about 1.5mph average at the same power over the same routes.  I've ridden the same courses on the carbon bike with rs10s not 404s and it' about 0.5 to 1mph difference for the same power depending on the wind.

that' over 2 to 3 hour loops.

when chasing segments there is a much bigger margin

any way.  if you have the money buy what makes you happy and want to ride more!

if it' just about speed get yourself a tt bike.....thats worth another 1.5mph average

For me it is about long distance riding.  Saving energy on a 200 miler in the alps, when spending 15 hours on the bike seems like a good idea.

plus the new deeper rims are not much heavier than the so called climbing wheels.

Of course weight matters on climbs, pro rata against power, but nothing more

So you admit that less weight equals faster then as I originally said? Unless of course you never ride uphill?

The gains from aero wheels are so small they cannot be felt.

I can only assume you don't have aero wheels then. They have been proven to be around 2km /h faster than standard wheels at 200 watts. That is a significant increase..ill happily post the link to the test if you are going to argue otherwise

I don't care whether the op buys aero wheels or not, but to argue that they are any more of an unnecessary upgrade for the average cyclist than any other bike part just doesn't stack up.

Quality Tyres, weight, better suspension.. They all enable even average riders to go faster. Im struggling to see how that can be argued.

Please do post up the link....and actually read what I have said.

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/videos/cycling-tech/how-much-faster-aero-wheels-video

This is the link..

You said

Of course weight matters on climbs, pro rata against power, but nothing more

And as you know higher power to weight equals faster ... So lighter is faster. Whay else do you expect I was to take from that?

You also said..

The gains from aero wheels are so small they cannot be felt

The link shows that they are not so small, I'd definitely feel the effect of having to put in more effort over a long ride to get that extra 2km/h.

Do you actually have aero wheels may I ask?

I said

Weight makes very little difference to speed

I didn't say no difference.

I also said you wouldn't feel the difference <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">with aero wheels, and I stand by that. You might measure it with speed (i doubt it), more likely with power of course, but that's different</span>

I feel it by being less tired through less effort...

Unless of course you put in the same effort and just go further/faster.

If you mean the feel of the bike, then yes I agree .

Cool, ta for the vid too.

I have multiple pairs of aero wheels, but they're tubs. Because I use them for racing.

If training alone or with teammates, I ride reasonably light, comfortable tubeless hoops. Most of the time, I would train on my 1* cyclo-cross bike with gravel tyres. Much more comfortable.

Yes, aero wheels (if matched with the correct tyre and pressure and frame combination) can bring you some speed gains that you can quantify. However, you cannot FEEL them. You will feel geometry, wide soft tyres and lightweight components, but the aero wheel? Only in perception.

The only justification is fashion or hunting Strava KOMs. Which personally, on this front, I see to be for posers. If you ride a fast bike, you should ride fast and race it. Otherwise, ride a comfortable bike and stop trying to persuade passers by you're nibali. If you actually want to GET faster, buy a power meter and employ a coach. And do some races.

The gains from aero wheels are so small they cannot be felt.

By anyone under any circumstances? That's a very bold statement.

The only justification is fashion or hunting Strava KOMs. Which personally, on this front, I see to be for posers. If you ride a fast bike, you should ride fast and race it. Otherwise, ride a comfortable bike and stop trying to persuade passers by you’re nibali. If you actually want to GET faster, buy a power meter and employ a coach. And do some races.

So there is no reason to have some aero wheels except for racing or posing?

I have a power meter, and have used a coach, but I don't "race".  I do long distance events, challenging myself.  Sorry I don't fit into your idea of what is acceptable.

I stand by that njee, the human body is a rubbish measuring device.

“The only justification is fashion or hunting Strava KOMs. Which personally, on this front, I see to be for posers. If you ride a fast bike, you should ride fast and race it. Otherwise, ride a comfortable bike and stop trying to persuade passers by you’re nibali. If you actually want to GET faster, buy a power meter and employ a coach. And do some races.”

I race a comfort bike with 60 mm carbon rims. I “won” a sportive yesterday on a race bike with 60/90 mm rims. I’m a coach. Ride what you want, where you want

I agree it’s hard to feel the difference, but even simple timings will show that my HED Jet 6/9 combination is faster than a set of Open Pros. About a minute over 40 km for most riders here, and two of you are a 19 minute man.

They are also great handling in the wind.

you can however gat bigger gains from a skinsuit!

I stand by that njee, the human body is a rubbish measuring device.

You feel it when you are blown into a Bush by a cross wind  . although tbf that can't really be seen as a benefit  😉

Cool, ta for the vid too

It was pretty eye opening I thought. Like you I thought there would be a very minor increase in speed. Seeing that vid persuaded me to get some!

Although if I'm brutally honest.  The biggest factor was that they look ace.. And that alone means I want to ride my bike more.

I had previously been going on the video where they do a similar test but on aero frame, sperm helmet, wheels and tri bars.  I don't think wheels came out so well, but it is older IIRC

EDIT here we go

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/how-aero-is-aero-19273/

10W @ 40kph - but for full on aero wheels against "regular" aero wheels

Ha, I sought that article yesterday too, the aero benefit of wheels is derived as well, and by their own admission based on one test with one person.

I do agree with you that people are terrible measuring devices, I didn't realise you were talking "feel" in the most literal sense, as opposed to "tell the difference". It's obviously a very difficult thing to prove though, as in the right circumstances there will be quantifiable evidence that they're faster, so disproving that someone can 'feel' that is very difficult.

Personally if someone wants aero wheels then let them crack on. If someone wants a faired recumbant with Di2 to ride to the pub then equally, crack on! I've got a pair of 38s on one bike and some 50s on another. The 'aero' bike with the 50s is slower than the not-aero bike with 38s, the 50s are noticeably more of a handful in strong crosswinds (the 38s are no different to a very shallow wheel in that respect), but not horrifically so. I've not done a road race in about 6 years, and when I did I swapped to aluminium wheels because I didn't want to trash my nice carbon ones in a crash in a crit!

Remember to take your mitts off. The MIT Cycling Club did some wind tunnel testing a few years ago, and found that wearing gloves created more drag than a non-aero front wheel. If you are not fitting tri-bars, the biggest gain you can get, by some margin, is wearing an aero helmet, but there don't seem to be a lot of discussions about which TT helmet to use with your road bike!

I think people like the appearance of deep section aero rims, and they "look fast", but in reality, the gains are tiny. If you are not racing, I wouldn't worry much about a few mm of rim depth.

> I "won" a sportive yesterday

Yr honour, the prosecution rests.

> So there is no reason to have some aero wheels except for racing or posing?

Yeah pretty much.

ok, I'm sure my logic is flawed here, but here goes. The savings are marginal gains at best it appears, and you'd not notice it....or would you?  IF the energy you saved due to aero gain from the wheels was an average of 5w over a 3hr ride (assuming flat terrain for the sake of argument), then that saving is equivalent to the additional energy needed to carry 10kg up 550m of ascent. If you're more conservative and assume an average of 2w of aero gain then its 10kg up 220m of ascent.

Think I'd notice carrying and extra 10kg up 220m of ascent. 10kg is almost the weight difference between my mountain bike and my road bike - actually maybe 1.5 - 2kg more than the weight difference between my MTB and road bike. I climb alot on my MTB and know it requires a significant amount more energy to climb than my road bike (ok rolling resistance to take into account) and is much slower than my road bike.

Or another way of thinking about it is like completing the 3hr road ride with aero wheels at the same speed as I would with non-aero wheels, then, to ensure I expended the same energy as doing the ride with non-aero wheels, at the end of the ride pick up 10kg and climb 220m - I'd definitely notice that. I could do it, but I'd notice it.

So next question, what wheels?

The Roval CLX 50 look good, but they’re specialized.

the Industry Nine i9.45 also look very good, but not sure on availability in the UK.

Both of those offer good internal width for 28 tyres, and don’t cost the earth.

 10kg is almost the weight difference between my mountain bike and my road bike – actually maybe 1.5 – 2kg more than the weight difference between my MTB and road bike.

How heavy is your mountain bike!! 😬 ? Do you mean pounds?

I think it does all add up.. You can go the same distance in the same time for less effort, or faster and further for the same effort which is appealing to non racers.

I would not have them as my only wheels if I'm honest, mine are rim braked and you notice that in the wet.. I would not want to take them down an alp on a rainy day! But if you can afford them, As a luxury then I don't think you would regret it. They don't transform your ride, but then again most upgrades don't.. Only one I can think of that I couldn't live without is a dropper post!

For me one of the biggest things is that they look awesome on a carbon bike. .And if you like the look of your bike you are more likely to ride it.. Or at least I am.