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So on Sunday I am road riding 100k for my little girls' school and I have done a few training rides (around 5 or 6) and need to decide whether or not I think I can keep pace with the 'fast' group.
Here's some background:
The longest ride I have done is 53 miles at an average speed of 15mph with 3200ft of climbing (solo with no breaks).
The fastest I have done was 38 miles at an average speed of 17mph with 1650ft of climbing (solo with no breaks).
On Sunday I could go in the intermediate group (estimated average speed of 14/15mph) or the fast with an estimated average speed of 16-17mph (both with a 45 minute break at half distance). There is an estimated 2300ft of climbing so pretty flat really.
On my training rides I didn't particularly eat/drink properly beforehand (alcohol and bad food the night before, normal breakfast) but at the weekend I will abstain from the alcohol and have a good carb meal the night before as well as a decent breakfast.
I reckon I could do the fast group but I might struggle at times, especially in the last 15 miles or so as I have not ridden that sort of distance for a very long time and I haven't trained that hard for it.
What sort of difference will riding in a group make? Will I get much aerodynamic benefit by slipstreaming when I guess the majority of the ride will be at around a 18-20mph pace.
So - Death and Glory or Play it Safe?
Go fast. Worst that can happen is they drop you. Yes you will get lots of benefit from drafting if done properly.
Are you going there to cane yourself and just feel grateful you got round without losing your breakfast or would you like to have a chat, admire the view etc?
Having said that a decent group is worth an mph or two but you'll still have to keep up on the climbs 'cos if you get dropped you might not catch up again.
make sure you don't get your miles and KM's confused on the day!!
Eat properly the night before, have some food on you, eat before you are hungry and take advice from the others. Make sure you have your TUE's in and a warm bottle of clean piss for the end 😉
Are you going there to cane yourself and just feel grateful you got round without losing your breakfast or would you like to have a chat, admire the view etc?
But I don't think I would be caning myself - the long ride I did was completed with a ave. heart rate of 91bpm and I didn't go into my peak zone. I think I would be caning myself if they were planning an average of 18-20mph or there were some serious climbs but it seems pretty flat overall.
And to complete the answer - I am bloody competitive and want to prove to myself that I can pace with the fast group. 😉
I am bloody competitive and want to prove to myself that I can pace with the fast group.
Why were you asking? You were obviously going to do fast anyway. 🙂
TBH riding in a slow group when you can go faster is pretty frustrating so there's another reason.
I am bloody competitive and want to prove to myself that I can pace with the fast group.
Then give in a couple of km's watch for the break and if nobody is showing form go for the solo victory
[i]ave. heart rate of 91bpm[/i]
I don't know how people manage this.
I have a resting heart rate of about 50 but rarely complete a ride with an average below 150 unless it's an mtb one with lots of stopping for faff and chat.
I think you'd already decided to do the fast group, hadn't you 🙂
ave. heart rate of 91bpmI don't know how people manage this.
Neither do I, I'd need to be rolling along not pedaling to get my hr near that.
Why would you need to stop for 45 minutes on a 60 mile ride?
Anyway the fast group isn't really fast so go for that option.
TBH riding in a slow group when you can go faster is pretty frustrating so there's another reason.
Is another thing playing on my mind.
ave. heart rate of 91bpmI don't know how people manage this.
Will it is only on my Fitbit so it might not be accurate, although I can do an hour in peak (ave. of 150) on the spinning bike in the gym.
The problem is, on a road bike in the middle of nowhere I tend to be more conservative so I don't blow up (as I don't have the experience to be able to pace myself).
Why would you need to stop for 45 minutes on a 60 mile ride?
I did wonder that myself.
have you done any group riding ? do you know others in the fast group ? what 'rules' are they likely to ride to ?
If you have a bit of group experience and it's an organised group then the drafting benefits are significant, so based on the figs the faster one would work.
Then again, if they see you as
but a gringo with no group riding skills it could be a painful exit... 🙂bloody competitive and want to prove to myself that I can pace with the fast group.
The longest ride I have done is 53 miles at an average speed of 15mph with 3200ft of climbing (solo with no breaks).
The fastest I have done was 38 miles at an average speed of 17mph with 1650ft of climbing (solo with no breaks).
the long ride I did was completed with a ave. heart rate of 91bpm
Something here does not compute
But I don't think I would be caning myself - the long ride I did was completed with a ave. heart rate of 91bpm and I didn't go into my peak zone.
Plenty of reserve there. Go fast, but watch out for poor group riding skills!
I rode a [url= https://www.strava.com/activities/716561780/overview ]Handicap Road Race[/url] on Sunday. Average heart rate for the 80 km was a mere 170 bpm. I was rather pleased to stay away for 90 minutes and not have to ride the last lap.
You should be done in three hours if you all work hard 😈
I just checked I don't think I got mine under 100 this evening and half of that was downhill!!
So check your HRM!!
So check your HRM!!
It is just a wrist-based Fitbit so maybe not accurate but it is the same device that I use all the time so inaccuracies would be the same inaccuracies all the time I guess? But I do agree it sounds unusually low (perhaps it is because I didn't have it fastened tightly like I do when I am doing intensive spinning sessions)?
I really don't have much of a clue how it will play out on Sunday 🙂
I rode a Handicap Road Race on Sunday. Average heart rate for the 80 km was a mere 170 bpm. I was rather pleased to stay away for 90 minutes and not have to ride the last lap.
Handicap as in an APR? I'm not convinced that going off on a solo effort and failing to complete the distance is doing it right
OP, just go fast. If you blow up you blow up and, assuming fast is off first, the worst that can happen is being swept up by the slower group
Attack in the first 5km and try to drop them, then time trial to a solo victory a la Tony Martin.
It is just a wrist-based Fitbit so maybe not accurate but it is the same device that I use all the time so inaccuracies would be the same inaccuracies all the time I guess?
Does your hr ever go down to single figures 🙂
I always prefer riding with the slowest and least capable people, it's good for my self esteem (normally 😕 )
Go in the fast group, don't stop half way. Gives you a 45min gap. You could keep your HR lower than 100bpm and still roll in before them.
Winner.
assuming fast is off first,
No, it's last so the three groups (there is a'slow' one too) all come in together-ish at the end. At the pub.
8)
Does your hr ever go down to single figures
Well no, it does seem quite 'normal' for most of the time (resting rates, sleeping rates etc, goes up slightly on resting if I have had beer etc.
Handicap as in an APR?
Yes. Handicap as in groups seeded by BC category, so seven of us in the first group, riding to not get caught. Eight groups leaving at 1:45 minute intervals down to the Elites. I was hoping to recover when we were eventually caught, but was dropped on the climb. Just five of us managed to stay away for 90 minutes. In the first HC of the season, the first group of 4th cats won the race (it was 50 km though), and the Elite/scratch group time gap was increased. So sometimes it pays to go hard (and crawl home). Most fun road race all season.
And OP, I suspect your HR monitor was off. It's hard to keep under a 100 bpm, even on recovery. My resting HR is 45, and rises to 60 just standing. You have a decent pace already, but be sure to take care when riding in a group.
but be sure to take care when riding in a group.
Anything in particular to look out for? The only group riding I have done is MTB (mainly social but with a few 24 races in there).
but be sure to take care when riding in a group.
Anything in particular to look out for? The only group riding I have done is MTB (mainly social but with a few 24 races in there).
have you done any group riding ? do you know others in the fast group ? what 'rules' are they likely to ride to ?If you have a bit of group experience and it's an organised group then the drafting benefits are significant, so based on the figs the faster one would work.
a biggish, disorganised group is not a nice place to be on a ride - fast, dangerous, fraught...
[quote=johndoh ]but be sure to take care when riding in a group.
Anything in particular to look out for? The only group riding I have done is MTB (mainly social but with a few 24 races in there).
Have a look at hand signals on youtube, and make sure you pass them back.
No sudden movements, hold your line in corners. Remember outside of pack needs to corner quicker than inside.
Don't half wheel (ride slightly ahead of person next to you) if on the front.
You'll notice who to watch for, inconsistent movements, random braking, accelerating, standing up etc.
Well group riding requires that you can follow a wheel, typically with a beginners gap of about 1-2 wheel diameters. You should take turns on the front, and if an organised group ride either in team time trial TTT formation (peel off the front and drop onto the back - also known as "bit-and-bit", or if a larger group, "through and off" with two lines moving at slightly different speeds; ~1 mph faster up the outside then peel off onto the inside, drop back and rejoin the outside. Communicate when it is safe to pull in and when it is the next person's turn to pull across to the outside faster line.
TTT can be done with two riders. TAO really needs six as a minimum - odd numbers work better.
Communicate "Holes", point to uneven surfaces, drains etc. Call turns. Signal and call to pull out and back in for obstructions, "slowing" and "stopping". Call "car back" it wants to overtake, or "car up", there's one heading towards us so get in!
Above all, CONCENTRATE! We don't say a lot on our group rides, but we do think a lot 😉
Anything in particular to look out for?
Don't get too close, it's not a team time trial.
Don't half-wheel (allowing your front wheel to overlap the rear wheel of the person in front)
Dont brake suddenly
Don't accelerate suddenly
Ride at a steady cadence
Use hand signals to point out any wheel-killing potholes
If you're moving out of line make your intentions clear
Don't evacuate throat/nose without checking behind you to see if anyone's in the firing line.
Don't fart in the face of the person behind you.
Do your turn on the front
Don't worry OP there will be plenty other [s]chancers,wannabees,[/s] people of your ability and fitness,so if you and a few others get dropped by the elite/ex-pros,you can always form a wee mini chase group 🙂
Don't half-wheel (allowing your front wheel to overlap the rear wheel of the person in front)
That be overlapping, half-wheeling is as per mrjmts description (effectively forcing the guy next to you to speed up).
OP, how big are the groups expected to be? Open roads? If so, that'll be interesting when the different groups meet up late in the ride.....
I believe there will be about 60 people in total, and the last 5 miles is through town on pretty busy (and open) roads!OP, how big are the groups expected to be?
They have done this before so I am trying to trust them but some of the 'advice' on their leaflet doesn't seem the best advice (such as 'ride in single file so you don't block the road) - I thought a group was meant to ride two or three abreast to make the chaingang shorter and quicker to pass?
I'm not having a go here, but if I was doing this event and discovered there was a fiercely competitive bloke with limited group riding skills, riding close to his limits, but determined to prove a point, I'd probably decide to ride it solo.
Above all, CONCENTRATE! We don't say a lot on our group rides, but we do think a lot
That just reminded me of the lad I know that managed to crash into a motorbike in his first RR 🙂
3 Groups of 20 (or whatever mix they end up on) on open roads will be a joy, especially if strung out 😯 We limit groups to 12, 14 at the absolutely most. Hopefully someone will organise and split the groups down into sensible sizes. You're right that one of the reasons for going 2-up (never 3) is to make the group a lot shorter
discovered there was a fiercely competitive bloke with limited group riding skills, riding close to his limits, but determined to prove a point
It isn't a race and no-one is going to be treating it as one - it's a family bike ride for charity. Yes I will be pushing myself a little (but what I believe will be comfortably within my physical capabilities based on what I have done so far in training). I won't be elbowing people out of the way like Mark Cavendish in the final 100 metres 🙂
ride with the fast group but surely if you are doing a charidee ride of 100 km then the fast group's average speed will be 25-27 km/h with 700 metres of climbing.
If they are averaging 16-17 mph then you are doing a 60 mile charidee ride with 2300 feet of climbing #dontmixnmatch
But seriously, get the route on Garmin so you can follow it home if you get dropped, take some gels/energy bars cos if you are pushing harder than normal you will more than likely bonk if you aren't replenishing food and water and go for the fast group.
What's the worst that can happen?
The leaflet passed out by the organisers says the 'fast' group is aiming for 16-17mph over the set course.
I have downloaded Mapometer and the route guide to my phone .
Sorry - mixing and matching purely because I am of an age where I grew up with both units (born 1967)
Just looking at my heart rate - it's clearly a million miles out, I'm averaging 115bpm on lunchtime walks! Doh!
I think most of had figured that out. Or you have a heart the size of my thigh muscle 🙂Just looking at my heart rate - it's clearly a million miles out
The wrist based HRM are notoriously unreliable, even though they may be, as yours seems to be, unreliable in a rather consistent way. Can pick up fairly cheap Bluetooth HRM (H7 from Polar) and check with your smartphone - should give you a much better idea of where you really are.
If you do get in a serious chain gang of rider who know each other watch out for their own idiosyncrasies. Eg above someone says move up on the outside. Not with those I ride with. Outside is always moving back as its easier to brake out of trouble than accelerate. Of course that assumes trouble is cars not holes in the gutter.
Just hang on the back until you know what's what.
I will have to tighten it (it's what they recommend for strenuous exercise) on my final training ride on Saturday morning and see what it says 🙂
Yep tighten it mine was skipping beats if it wasn't tight, had me at 40bpm while blowing from my arse...
Chances of all three groups coming together on the final run in is both remote and stupid.
I suspect the fast group will be catching both other groups on the road. Probably at about 20-25km for the middle group and shortly after for the slow group (at which point the middle group will probably stop chasing the fast group......) As long as you can hang on until the middle group is caught, you'll at least have somewhere to drop back to.
And you've not got limited group riding skills, you've got none.
And you've not got limited group riding skills, you've got none.
It's a charity group ride... neither will anyone else in any group!
Yeah I had given up explaining that 🙂
Have you checked with your doctor if any of the drugs you are taking will need a TUE? Just claim to never have injections if anyone asks.....
Go in the fast group, sounds like it's the right pace for you and if my experiences with other big events are anything to go by, there will be plenty of people over-estimating their fitness.
Go in the fast group, sounds like it's the right pace for you and if my experiences with other big events are anything to go by, there will be plenty of people over-estimating their fitness.
Cheers - that is the sort of advice I was wanting 🙂 😉
So "they've done this before", is something of an exaggeration?It's a charity group ride... neither will anyone else in any group!
And if that is the case, i'd take the fast groups average pace claims with a pinch of salt! And take some body armour.
So... That didn't go quite as planned! Found a crack in the steerer tube (head tube?) on my trusty old Allez on Saturday afternoon and finally managed to source a stand-in bike (which was too big for me).
Anyway, I pressed on with the fast group and then that group split at the halfway point but I managed to stay with the lead group (and took my turn on the front). I really enjoyed it and was very pleased that I didn't get dropped (it was close in the last 8 miles but I stuck on the wheel and just managed to stay with them).
Great fun 🙂