[Closed] Advice on Crashing

If you're not crashing you're not trying hard enough. That's what I tell myself anyway.

Crashing will happen, more experience will help... So will coaching.

I don't personally think at your stage you need coaching, but time/practice and experience..

I'm sure many will say now is the ideal time for coaching though

Skills course without a doubt. IF you're near Ed he's got a great reputation.

Oh and a dropper post 😉

Save the time and money of a skills course and just slow down; you don't have to blast down everything. Ride within your capabilities and you'll be fine. Smooth competent cycling is a sign of experience, same as smooth competent driving.

[i]Smooth competent cycling is a sign of experience, same as smooth competent driving. [/i]

But no one ever thinks they can become a smooth competent driver without having any lessons to start with?

Experience helps but being taught the basics (i.e. don't jam your front brake on half way down a steep bit) can save a lot of pain.

1. Yes it's normal.
2. Yes, go see Ed. He's ace. And he has a course called Stop Crashing, might be useful... 😉

Hope you were wearing a helmet at least?

Gloves, knee pads needed by sounds of it.

Hope it doesn't put you off and you recover soon.

At least ride with some 'better' riders you'll pick up a fair bit very quickly

Unless you're young or want to race and win then I think crashing isn't normal. Occasionally maybe but not consistently.
You're going beyond your ability and coaching will help. Coaching and practise.

I very rarely crash as my primary motive when I'm out is to get back in one piece. I used to be very slow on the more technical stuff but coaching and practise has made me a lot more comfortable, well in control and much faster.

I had a one on one session with some guys in the peaks and a group session with Jedi - both different, both well worth it.

Ed is on your doorstep and like mintim says, has a course called [url= http://great-rock.co.uk/courses/stop-crashing/ ]Stop Crashing which even has spaces this weekend[/url]! Its is the best upgrade you will make - go do it, no excuse as he lives in Hebden himself!

Also worth riding with some people better than you, you can learn a lot that way.

Crashing is riding beyond your skill level. Fine when you are 12 but not so sensible when you have a job and a mortgage. Either slow down or get better. Skills course should help and then practice.

Crashing is riding beyond your skill level

😆 no its not, accidents happen

Crashing is normal, it is a inherently dangerous sport and you should expect the occasional off.

Three crashes in three weeks is well over what would be considered normal however. Skills courses can accelerate learning but there is no substitute for putting hours in on the bike.

I got some skiing lessons recently and my instructor said that he always tried to identify which type of learner his students were, as visual learners, more pratical, more conceptual etc. he said I was a conceptual learner and recommended that I read some web pages on basic technique as to see why I had to do certain things on the skis. I have also found reading technique books for MTB to be useful (the one by Brian lopes and some other guy)

I would recommend a course as they have been beneficial to me personally (Ed is great).

Skills courses are definitely worthwhile. Poor/panic braking was the primary cause of my crashes (unbalances the bike, puts weight forward, encourages death grip/body to freeze etc). Also what ahsat says, riding with others better than you is a big help. Also I am 52 and crashing is less cool than it used to be !

Thanks so much for all good advices.

" just slow down" this- I may have exaggerated- I'm still very slow.

"Yes, go see Ed. He's ace. And he has a course called Stop Crashing, might be useful.." Yes- it does feel very appropriate!

"Hope you were wearing a helmet at least? Gloves, knee pads needed by sounds of it. Hope it doesn't put you off and you recover soon."

Yes wearing a helmet. I have a big cut over my right eye and my glasses smashed. I spent 10 minutes lying on my back testing bones and thinking who I might call before I got back on and rode slowly down. Knee pads might be a good idea.

"At least ride with some 'better' riders you'll pick up a fair bit very quickly"
This. I've been riding with a group who all started at the same time and watching Youtube. I'll find some better ones to follow. Cheers

Many thanks for the swift and responses. Lots of good advice. Cheers

Hope you were wearing a helmet at least?

Gloves, knee pads needed by sounds of it.

Hope it doesn't put you off and you recover soon.

I'd second slowing down and riding within your abilities. At our age (I'm 49), crashing and recovery takes longer to get back to normal. I did a skills course with Dirtschool after a horrid smashed face hospital job crash end of 2013 and it helped iron out bad habits gained from 40 yrs of riding. It also increased my post crash confidence and made me go down stuff a bit faster, which brings its own increased risks....

Oops double post.

Just go and ride with some other mountain bikers - you need to pick up what normal, raise your skill level by trying and by looking and asking.

That's all free. Do a course after you have a bit more experience.

Learn from experience a bit more, don't expect it all to be taught to you via the internet or coaches.

Crashes happen. It's important to know/remember that the majority of them are not serious/injurious. If you ride tight, slow and cautiously then that's probably when you'll have your worst crashes. Loosen up, relax and think about being smooth.

Find an open area with a gentle gradient some camber and some corners. Or mark out some corners. Drop your saddle and mess about for a few hours, let the bike get away from you, get muddy. Consider a skills course.

If all else fails buy a Santa Cruz Bronson/Ibis Mojo/Yeti SB6C etc. If this doesn't work consider carbon wheels or getting a 29er. If this doesn't work consider E:I shocks....

this as well

[i]"Poor/panic braking was the primary cause of my crashes (unbalances the bike, puts weight forward, encourages death grip/body to freeze etc)"
[/i]

This basically sums up what happened last night! Were you there?

Many thanks. I will
1. Return the call of the nice man who I met in the square who said "come out with us."
2. Book on a "Stop Crashing" course with Ed in a few weeks time.
3. Look for some knee pads.
4. Consider saving for a dropper post (totally un-necessary except that 2/3 crashes have been over the front going down stuff because I was too lazy to stop and lower saddle).

Again thanks all. I have to work now but this has been great. Cheers

I've been riding since 1987. I crash just as much now as I did then. But experience has meant I ride way more challenging terrain / jumps / gaps / daft things now than I did before.

As your skill rises you raise your aim and look for more challenges. There will always be a gap between your ambition and ability, if not your likely to get bored or static.

Oh, get a dropper, that will save your ass.

Knee pads are a really good idea imo- you're something like 10 times more likely to sustain a knee injury requiring hospital treatment than a head injury, knees are pretty vulnerable and they don't always heal well either. Obviously if you have the choice, you'd choose a *ed knee over a *ed head but I'd rather have neither! And it's not just the big, rare injuries- it's the little knocks that spoil a ride or leave you limping and sore at work. Good pads are really uninvasive and no real bother to ride in.

Crashing, well. I did my basic learning as a kid. Crashes are still part of most people's riding, and you just get up and laugh most of the time, but not so many. Skills coaching is a good option, it's not just about gaining skills you lack, it's also about gaining confidence in the skills you already have. Equally just doing a lot of cautious riding is a good one but slower. Just as long as you're having fun and not smashing yourself to bits, it's not wrong.

I'd add the more you crash you get better at it. What would once be an over the bars becomes a leap over the bars landing on your feet whilst the bike tumbles past etc.

You also recognise it happening and catch it more and more.

So by crashing, you'll crash less and less badly.

Though I do find nowadays that my crashes are either:

a) Really minor ending up with me standing there and my bike tumbled off somewhere.

b) massive, massive accidents*

*glares at sore knee after 4 weeks off the bike

Crashing to some degree is normal if you are trying to improve, if you're just content to ride at the same level and within your abilities then you will rarely crash other than as an acident.

If you're pushing and trying to get better (as it sounds like you are) then crashing is a natural part of that as you find your limits, the bikes limits, and the trail limits.

Remember you also need to actually go an actively practise, not just ride, but practise. Pick a bit of trail and session it, or pick a 'skill' or technique that you want to work on and just spend an hour or so doing that somewhere*

I've been riding with a group who all started at the same time

Also, this ^ may be great for getting egged on, and getting support, and the social aspect, but if you all started at around the same time then you may all be falling into the same bad habits or missing the epiphany moments that come from riding with people with more skill and experience and learning from them.

*somewhere can literally be anywhere, 30mins in a car park learning weight balance/transfer and the limits of where your body can be on the bike can be just as useful as 2 hours cruising around an easy trail you already know.

There are pretty much 3 reasons for any "crash":

1) You miscalculate the severity of some trail section, and as a result, crash (coming flying into a corner, that turns out to be tighter than you expected for example)

2) You fail to perform the necessary physical actions required to complete a section of trail (fail to drop your seat and hence cannot control your mass, and go OTB on a steep downhill trail section)

3) An unusual, practically unforeseeable event occurs that causes you to crash (say a berm collapses under you, as your rip round it etc)

Basic bike handling skills mean that number crashes due to 2) are every much reduced, and a skills course will make you much more pro-active on your bike rather than re-active, which is what is required to ride really difficult terrain.

3) is what causes even the best riders in the world to get it wrong occasionally

and 1) comes from a mixture of experience and observational skills. Observational skills that are critical to "reading" a trail accurately and hence setting an appropriate speed can be learnt, but generally rely on your basic physical bike handling skills being automatic and "second nature". This is because it you are busy thinking "hmm, wonder which foot i need to drop for this corner" etc, you haven't got time to be thinking "i need to look round this corner and see what's coming up"........ 😉

I took up MTBiking last year and in 7 months I've had four biggish offs and have spent at least a third of that time nursing injuries. I'm 61 so not healing so fast as I once did.

I found three things have helped:

1. A dropper post, as others have said, since you will just not get your centre of gravity above your cranks until you can get lower and further back and generally move your c o g around smoothly depending on conditions.
2. Armour - I used the Troy Lee Designs Shock Doctor kit for knees, elbows plus undershirt and hip protection undershorts if I'm doing anything challenging. I've always done outdoor sports such as caving, rock climbing and sailing where having really good safety equipment is essential but I have come across an attitude in mountain biking that considers it a bit sissy to use that kind of protective equipment. I've had a couple of recent offs when I've waited for the pain to start and it hasn't!
3. Coaching. This really helped me especially advice to drop the heels in the ready or attack position. The further you can drop them the more any forward momentum which might tip you over the bars can be absorbed at the ankles pushing into the cranks. As an experiment (on somewhere soft and grassy and at not much more than walking pace) go up on tiptoes then gently tap the front brake. You will feel an immediate tip forward. Do the same with your heels dropped as far as possible and notice the difference.

When i started - from road though i did BMX- i had crashes every week or so

now i have one spectacular crash a year with perhaps the odd dab*.....its overdue 😥

* this is not becaus ei am awesome but because I know what I can ride and tend to not exceed it - the one bad one is just because sometimes things happen [ or I have ridden with Grum]

My piece of advice on crashing is if you are anticipating it DO NOT ask passing females to wait around in case you need picking up of the floor.

I'm reasonably quick and I hardly ever crash.

However I'm almost 40 and started riding off-road when I was 16, so I've had so much practice that skills are completely ingrained. You just need practice, and more of it because you're starting older.

Yeah crashing is normal, it can become an art form as you get better at jumping off your bike and landing on your feet, watching your bike disappear down an 8ft ditch, or dropping into a muddy drop to be thrown over the handlebars and managing to get your legs over the handle bars to land on your feet much to your waiting friends amazement / laughter. Of course eventually you will loose the front end at 30mph on some slippery bedrock and slide along several metres with the rock flashing past your eyes as you inhale deeply the smell of alloy sparking on the smooth hard surface, ouch that hurt a lot and has taken nearly a month to get over. But yes we all crash eventually, its inevitable! 🙂

Console yourself with the knowledge that, if you do eventually move over to road riding, the skills you are acquiring now will stand you in good stead. I've been on the road for five years now and have yet to suffer a big off.... I'm still waiting to have my bum skinned or worse. My cycling buddy is faster than me especially up hills but he always holds back and lets me go ahead on the descents.

I was MTBing for 12 years before I took my first skills course. It transformed my riding - much smoother, fall off a lot less.
Can also recommend pads - partly it reduces the harm when you do come off, partly it relaxes you so you fall off less in the first place

Lots more good advice and reassurance. Thanks all.

but I have come across an attitude in mountain biking that considers it a bit sissy to use that kind of protective equipmen

I'm guilty of this a bit. Not vocally to other people or anything, just in my own head really. And probably exacerbated by comments I've seen on threads on here. But in the last 12 months I'm doing much harder stuff than I ever used to, riding with people a lot better than me, and while this is generally a good thing, I have had two fractures in the last six months from crashing. Thankfully quite minor - a pinkie and this week a rib, both from OTB crashes - but enough that I've started to realise I'm not as invincible as I used to be and maybe I should think about something other than a helmet and gloves. That said, not sure what would have prevented either of those - one landing on the outstretched hand, the other flat on my back on rocks?

Advice on Crashing

don't do it. it hurts.

Helmet, kneepads, gloves and safety glasses of some sort are minimum for riding singletrack if you feel you may crash. Tbh, apart from the pads maybe, I would wear gloves helmet and glasses any time I'm on a bike. Stuff in your eye at speed is damn dangerous and if you crash, torn palms are the final indignity to pushing out.

Ed Oxley is ace. Tell him what you want and be honest, he'll tell you what he recommends. Stop Crashing isn't quite 101 and may not be suitable yet. Ask Ed, belive the Beard.

Heb is HARD as daft local trails go. If you've just hopped on a bike and hit the trails there, crashing is not shameful although you may want to take it a bit easier. Learn about weight placement and transfers. Going Downhill in the saddle with the seat up is already unsettled as the weight is on the front wheel and the rear is light. Brake and the front will pack down and the bike will flip you OTB. The physics is conceptually easy, learning the moves takes time. Try not to hang off the back as a get out. It will work to a degree - weight low and back is reasonable for descending but the front will be light and you'll not really be in control. You'll be aging onto the bike rather than actually riding although you may well get down. 🙂

Who to call. Sort this out as a matter of urgency if you're riding solo and crash prone. Mountain Rescue may be best if regular Ambulance will jot be able to get to you. You get Mountain Rescue by dialling 999 and asking for the Police.

Good luck, and have fun! 🙂

My mate (who ironically got me into MTB) was actualy pretty slow but despite this he crashed more or less every ride. Some years later, analysing his ride it was pretty clear that he was very tense, didn't shift his weight around, would not lift his head and he constantly target- fixated on obstacles. All basic stuff that any skills course should help with. Despite encouragement, sadly, he quit several years back.

Low speed crashes have always hurt me more than fast ones. Try and stay relaxed. Ride a fewsections slowly thinking about body position and line to take then ride them faster!

There's an element of luck if you crash and don't get hurt but it can be useful if you can learn how to crash. Maybe that stop crashing course will cover a bit of controlled bailing?

I was lucky* in that i spend most of my youth, up to my late twenties riding a lot of bmx. Some days when trying to learn new stuff, i'd be off the bike more than on it, but you get into a mindset when actively learning and are anticipating things going wrong and generally it was more falling off the bike than crashing, if that makes sense.

I still fall off the bike once in a while and unfortunately still have the occasional crash - despite not pushing anywhere near as hard as i could or used to. It's the unexpected ones that hurt the most, regardless of speed, and in my experience the fast one DO hurt more.

More of a story than actual help, that. So here's a top tip...stay relaxed, not just when riding but when crashing. And as odd as it may seem, take up Judo or something similar that will teach you how to spread your body weight to minimise the impact when you do hit the deck.

* Lucky as in, i'd hate to be learning how to crash now as a 45 year old man.

Lots of interesting replies. Many thanks all for taking the time.

Crashing is kind of normal if you are pushing your limits. Skills course will help raise your limits and improve your skill but if you still push your limits you will crash. Still I would recommend you go to a course.

This may help in the meantime

After you have gained experience in crashing you will get better at anticipating them and therefore crash less, also you will respond better to each crash to minimise the consequences. I would recommend knee pads, gloves, helmet, eye protection.

When you are choosing knee protection fit is really important and I think you would be better off with some like Fox Launch Pro or 661 evo rather thank G-Form or FOX Launch Enduro.

Hb70 - I guess you are around Hebden Bridge?

If so I'm happy to meet up on the odd evening my and try and offer a bit of input if you fancy? I'm no world beater, but happy to try and help 🙂

I echo sentiments above and say get some coaching. Ed is fantastic and honestly would be the best 80-100 you will spend.

Is this normal? Do I need to get used to regular crashing? Because at 44 I have a job and responsibilities and mortgages to cover. Is it just a phase I need to get through that everyone does?

You can get insurance for mtb that pays out in the event of loss of earnings whilst you recuperate, I don't think you'd be fired for injuring yourself once or twice in a major way.

Crashing is part of the sport. I don't agree with slow down as other riders are probably far faster...

If you're unsure of something - get off and have a look first. Being able to read the trail properly is key.

GCN-mtb are doing good stuff for tips...

It's what makes bikers (both motor & push) what they are! you can be bowling about billy big b@llocks one day and on your face grinding the gravel another.

Staying on two wheels takes skill, experience, concentration and a wee bit of luck. We might laugh and poke fun when it goes tits up, but I've never met a biker who would not help or would intentionally cause injury to other people! Usually most will share similar or more humiliating stories of daft crashes we've all had, the scars and broken bones are not fun, but are part of it, a risk averse two wheeled life is not for me just yet.

To the trails my two wheeled compadres and forever we shall rip 😆

As you get older it becomes harder to learn new stuff. As you get older injuries become easier to pick up, and things break easier.

Ride with other better riders if you can. A skills course would definitely help.

As OP has said when you are young you can afford to crash, but as you get older you have responsibilities and can not afford to be in plaster for weeks at a time.

I find it odd that people think crashing is part of biking. Generally if you are learning new skills you increase the chances of crashing, but if you get to a skill level, you shouldn't really crash, unless you go beyond that limit... Maybe there are a few people on here who have responded that are not as skilled as they think

As to pads, undoubtedly they offer some protection, as in for scuffs etc, but IMO to some extent they offer psychological protection more than physical. They won't stop broken collarbones, wrist injuries, knee ligament injuries etc etc

Crashing is over-rated IMO. I'd rather spend the summer riding than in plaster, but I'm happy to acknowledge that others have different priorities. Going just a touch slower makes the downhills last longer!

FunkyDunc

I find it odd that people think crashing is part of biking. Generally if you are learning new skills you increase the chances of crashing, but if you get to a skill level, you shouldn't really crash, unless you go beyond that limit... Maybe there are a few people on here who have responded that are not as skilled as they think

There's a saying in off-roading(4x4) "As slow as possible, as fast as necessary". I like to think the reverse is true for mountain biking. If someone's built a jump over a fallen tree, you need a modicum of speed to clear that, same with a section of wet roots, or off camber, or off camber wet roots!. Once a trail gets to a certain steepness then carrying speed is your friend. Slow, hesitant, ponderous riding will cause accidents. Especially when learning.

That being the case, unless you ride in the desert then trail conditions are constantly changing. Dry, dusty in summer, muddy in winter, slippery wet leaves in autumn etc etc. Unless you pre walk every trail accidents will happen.

From what I've heard ..if its coaching spend the money on Jedi. I too live up north and if I was going to go the coaching route I'd do the drive/spend a day with this fella rather than someone more local.

You also ride somewhere that does have its challenging bits - mossy/off-angled stones, mis-shapen drops and thats just on the bridleways/public parts available to riders. Nevermind the cheeky stuff so no wonder you crash. Ace place though. Why not spend every other ride at somewhere like Gisburn? I'll be riding Hebden etc at somepoint this weekend if you are free? I've crashed a fair bit myself and I could give you an opinion.

I'm firmly of the opinion that you have good riding days and so-so riding days. You shouldn't ride the same trails the same way every day. You tend to crash either when your not 'at your best*' or you are going over your skill threshold IMO (i.e. too fast).

*The descent off the back/top of Heptonstall for instance- the last time I rode the roll in/over the drop bit. I got off and walked it as I just didn't feel great that day.

im thinking about booking Jedi. 1 to 1 coaching is £210, 2 to 1 is £140 per rider. 210 is a bit steep for me - anyone wanna pair up for the 2 to 1?

wanna book in asap really.

Post up a topic- I think its fair to create a new one to get more exposure on that.

I thought this had closed so apologies for rudeness. I have hooked up with a new group to go out with and learn from. I am going to do that for a bit before the skills courses to try to understand just where I am and what's best. Many thanks again for all of your kind offers and advices. Cheers

You only started the topic a day ago 😆

hb70, if you're in Hebden then come out on the Monday night rides if you can. There's a fair few people on them with a range of abilities who can give you some tips. Not that we're downhill gods or anything, but we ride a wide variety of terrain without much incident*

*present company excepted

For my 2p, this is what I usually tell new people (all obvious stuff, so probably not even worth saying).

1. Relax
2. Keep the bike moving, front wheels like getting stuck behind the tiniest of rocks or bumps if they don't have the momentum to bounce over them
3. Look ahead, not at your front wheel
4. Drop your heels
5. Ride the bike, don't just sit on it.

hb70 - the most important skill in relation to crashing, is learning to recount the incident to you family/mates without it sounding like you're 3years old and just had your stabilisers removed!

funkhouser - which Jedi course were you looking at? I've been thinking about his jumps and drops one. Got a bit of an injury niggle at the mo, so might not be available soon enough for you.

jumps and drops is a public course. can get on any of those for £85.

next available dates are the 22nd June, 29th June or 13th July.

i preferably wanna go before i go to Morzine but the 22/06 is while im there.

the private courses are more tailored to what you wanna achieve, but Jedi is fully booked till August anyway. the other fella Nathan is available on the 3rd June - anyone used Nathan?

so basically im either not gonna get it in before going away or it wont be with Jedi...

probably hang on for the 13th July public...

Hmm some of the Heb trails are bloody tech. As per Dazh,

look at where you're going rather than what's in front of your front wheel, try to lay off the front brake on super steep tech, weight through your feet. turn your hips in corners, the bike [b]will[/b] go, it's probably your head that's holding things up.

Jimjam - I disagree. Conditions change week to week, but you should be able to recognise this change in condition and compensate accordingly.

I haven't mtbd much in the last 3 years and have started crashing more, I'm not doing more difficult trails, just my skills have decreased. In my teens I'd just get on and increase my skills by practicing and crashing and improving. Now in my 40's I don't have as much time to practice, and my body doesn't react so well to crashing. That's why I've but my self on a course.