[Closed] Advantages/disadvatanges of long travel Hardtail?

Good - it's more fun.

Bad - the front end is higher, possibility of bashing the rear wheel more (although you do get some suspension effect on the back wheel from the forks).

Back in the day, a 100mm HT was considered a bit crazy.

You go faster....your back wheel takes a beating.
The change in geometry under full compression can be a little jarring.

I had a 140mm Ti 456 - it was a great bike but not really great for where I am (think South Downs) - didn't really need that travle and it got a bit wandery on the steep grassy climbs. Was fun on trips to Wales / Dartmoor though - it was just 'one louder' without lugging the weight of a full suss about.

TL;DR - liked it, but no real advantage for me in normal use.

I am on the South Downs also - I chucked a leg over one and rode it around the pavements - but you don't really get an idea of what it would be like in real world riding!

Your arms will take less of a beating but in reality you probably won't actually go any faster. The rear wheel may still take more of a beating though as the bike won't pump/pop as nicely or require quite the same imput to ride. This can cause riders to get lazy lifting/placing the rear wheel. infact you see a lot of long travel hardtail riders actually sat down descending. Whether they always did that or not I don't know.

I have a 130mm 29er HT, wouldn't really want much more than that. I read a review of a long travel ht once (cant remember what it was) that said "the front writes cheques the rear cant cash"

FTW I really like mine though and it's super fun and made me a better rider after spending all winter on it then swapping back to my full sus once the trails dried out.

I think they hit a limit at about 120-140mm, beyond that the change in geometry and lack of rear suspension negate any benefit that more travel has.

Benefit over shorter travel - you go faster, most components get stiffer to compliment the forks. It's lighter than a FS bike.

Downsides over FS - it's still slower.

I used to enjoy riding my HT a lot more than my FS. Maybe its because I have the wrong FS (although it should be perfect for the South Downs), but I covered so many more miles on my old Saracen Mantra and want that fun 'want to ride' feeling back, so maybe I will avoid the longer travel bikes!

I mostly rode my BFe at around 130mm, it worked with 160 for DH races but 130 was much nicer for general potterage. I wasn't that much slower on it than a Rocket, but that probably says more about where I was riding (twiddly reds at Hamsters and Choppers) and/or my inability to ride FS bikes than owt else!

edit- the BFe would blat down anything I could point the Rocket down. I love hardtails, me.

I was reading a review on MBR of the 2017 Whyte T130 and they were saying how it gets beaten by the Crush Pro, but ones 130 and one is 150?! Surely in slightly different categories?

I like them - 140mm seemed to work pretty well on my Switchbacks. It's not too much travel to get you in situations where the front end is getting carrid away. Climbing wasn't too bad.

Saying that, two of my favourite hardtails had 150mm travel - an original Orange Crush and a Slackline. Both worked for what I used them for (mucking about basically).

I think it depends on the bike though - my BFe felt better with shorter forks whereas my Slackline felt better with longer forks.

Don't stress about it, if you can't demo them - just buy the one you like the best.

140 or 150mm works fine on smaller wheeled HTs and 120mm is plenty on 29in ones IME.

One day I'll get around to chucking my 180mm forks on my old 26er HT. Until then I'll say that 140mm 29ers ride nicely down hills.

Actually, if they're comparable on price just get the Orange - it'll hold it's value best and probably has the best geometry.

They are around the same price at £1350.

hold it's value best

If you're thinking about resale value before you've even ridden the bike it's obviously not the right bike for you.

[img] [/img]

I've spent quite a lot of time on long forked hardtails. Current one is 150mm (it's been 140 and 130mm too). Previous one was 140 and 100mm (only 100 for a few months). I think they're a lot of fun. About half of my regular riding buddies ride them in the winter and/or on our more local trails - various Birds, Stantons, Production Privees, Cotics, Orange, Dartmoors. Lots of 140, 150 and even 160mm Pikes.

I was sceptical about the longer end of the travel spectrum, hence this bike started at 130. But in practice, with the right fork set up, I'm liking 150mm more than any of the shorter ones. But with the long forks, too soft and they're horrible; too hard and they're pointless.

If you're thinking about resale value before you've even ridden the bike it's obviously not the right bike for you.

He's buying a bike without riding it first, so I'm just being pragmatic - if you think about it properly.

About half of my regular riding buddies ride them in the winter and/or on our more local trails - various Birds, Stantons, Production Privees, Cotics, Orange, Dartmoors. Lots of 140, 150 and even 160mm Pikes.

For clarity they're mostly used for ragging around the woods - singletrack, short DH runs, jumps, drops etc. Plus a bit of XC riding. Those of us who do more XC riding tend to have 100-120mm or rigid 29er hardtails.

I personally would say 120mm isthe sweet spot for a trail hardtail although tried 140mm on a Surly once which was errrrm interesting.

There aren't any advantages to a long forked hardtail, apart from there're no rear bearings/bushings to wear out.

For ALL types of riding, a full suspension or a short forked hardtail are better.

They really are shit 😉

There are no disadvantages to my 150mm Shan. It really does do everything and it's the bike I always choose at the moment.

Looking to fit 160mm Pikes at some point.

Love a 160 Yari on my stantons. It feels right. Unlike on a previous older Bfe I've had.

I have a 120/110mm 29" fs and a p7 so similar to the Crush. Go for it, compared to my old 120mm 26" ht there are no downsides. It's not too much travel unless you're a arse up, head down XC'er.

Dialled alpine with u-turn lyriks - brilliant.

I have a C456 with 160mm Mattocs. I didn't particularly want forks that long but I bought them off a friend second hand to replace some very tired Fox 140mm forks.

I have had several rides now and wasn't sure at first. Lots of tweaking pressures and rebound/damping and I feel I've got them about right. The bike feels good, especially down hill, but as others have said, the front gets light on steep climbs. Provides a nice alternative to my 130/120 mm full sus.

There's a pretty big difference between older long fork hardtails (like the original BFe) which weren't that slack up front but had slack seat angles, short reaches and high BBs and the newer ones whose sagged geometry is much more like modern 5-6" trail bikes (so they climb and corner well). My Zero AM climbs incredibly well with a 150mm fork.

I've got a "pig iron" on one 456 with a set of 140mm Fox Vanillas on it.

It's heavy, it's too much bike for XC rides in Southern England. It's bloody brilliant except the 'male chicken' in a sock seat post/tube that has been a source of irritation for the eight years I've had it.

It is not a good climber but show it some flat single-track or point it downhill and ride the fork and it all makes a fair bit of sense and big grins.

It was my only serious bike for six years and it was great fun.

Having said that, it's main use now is riding with my kids or when the weather is / trails are atrocious. My 120mm FS is more capable most of the time and less abusive on my body!

I wouldn't go over 120mm. I think BTR have the right idea with their 'short' travel hardtails.

Going down slow steep bits with a long travel fork can be quite terrifying.

Going down slow steep bits with a long travel fork can be quite terrifying.

If you have nice mountain bike trails around and if your focus is "trail-fun" and not "race":

hardtail:
pick a 27.5 inch PLUS tire (something like 2.8 inch tires) bike with modern geometry and LOTS of fork travel. Minimum 130 mm. Great: 140 mm (but not above 150 mm)
Forget the old style XC 100 mm or 120 mm hardtail with 2.2 inch tires. They are NO fun. If you ride the forks with some "sag" - they bottom out when pushing only a bit harder in the trail!

full suspension:
a well balanced full suspension trail bike doesn't really need so much travel (riding same trail with same speed as above mentioned hardtail).
Front and back 130 mm is perfect in the trail and perfect for climbing. Tires with 2.3 or max 2.4 inch will be great.
(fork: don't go above 140 mm !)
Also here: look for a modern bike design. "Stretched" frame 65 ... 66 deg head angle... and so on.

Fun factor and speed when comparing above two bikes:
up to the rider. In some trails the hardtail might beat the full suspension. Riding hardtail means you need to concentrate all the time. But great fun. 27.5 inch PLUS tires are making hardtails more attractive again.
When having a rear suspension you don't need these fat tires.

Price tag for above bikes: the PLUS hardtail might be a bit cheaper than the full suspension but it's more simple to set up and more rugged.

I've got a Chromag Wideangle with 160mm forks. It's an absolute riot! I love the thing. Ride some pretty damn steep trails and never really felt worried. I'd suggest the geomtry has more to do with how the bike rides than the fork travel.

Sounds absolutely right!

Example for PLUS hardtail, frame for forks 130-150 mm:
NS ECCENTRIC DJAMBO
http://www.ns-bikes.com/eccentric-djambo,96,pl.html

The Djambo is a bit of an exotic animal - great, great fun also:

Merida Big Trail

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/merida-big-trail-review-2016.html

Cheapest version "Merida Big Trail 600", 130 mm fork available in winter sale for less than 1 k
More PLUS hardtails to come soon I guess.

Yes - as long as the geometry is right and the fork is up to the job there are barely limits for a hardtail...

Example for crazy downhill fun hardtail:
The famous Dartmoor Hornet:
http://dartmoor-bikes.com/hardware/enduro-trail/hornet-0
150 mm travel fork. Head angle is 65 deg.
Some bolt a 180 mm DUROLUX fork onto the Hornet.

But: this is a real niche product for crazy jumps and really for downhill (also called "Enduro").

But: XC short travel hardtail with "old geometry" is a fun-killer!

But: XC short travel hardtail with "old geometry" is a fun-killer!

One person's fun isn't always anothers. It depends on how you ride and what you enjoy so can't say I'd agree with being that so clear cut.

O.k.. Sorry. You are right.

My brother has a crush and he loves it around Peaslake / Leith Hill, he seems quick enough up and down, expensive for what it is though...................(Bird have what you want) maybe?
🙂 🙂 🙂

Going down slow steep bits with a long travel fork can be quite terrifying.

Yes, I wouldn't want to go down this with my 150mm hardtail:

[img] [/img]

But that's nothing to do with the fork! 😉

A well set up 150 or even 160mm hardtail is fine on really steep stuff. If it's plunging through the travel, then yes, I see the problem. But if shouldn't be.

Forget the old style XC 100 mm or 120 mm hardtail with 2.2 inch tires. They are NO fun.

Hahahahaha
You might want to look at the geometry, travel and tyre wdths of every slopestyle/Jump hardtail out there.
Other than an inch shorter stays they're all really close to a 14" XC frame.
(longer stays only make it more stable and slightly more effort to spin/manual)
[img] [/img]

Personally. I find long bikes No fun.

Main questions was about the Crush Pro 150 mm travel hardtail.

So yes - this is an excellent Enduro bike.
If you like to move on from XC to Enduro this bike is excellent.

Plus tires (2.6 inch?), excellent fork, 65 deg head angle and "stretched frame"...
For Enduro type mountain biking: great!

If the pump track or slope style riding is the goal the Crush Pro 150 might be - indeed - no fun and not the right pick. No question there...
But who would like to pick the Crush Pro 150 for this type of biking?

Some more neat bikes:

Enduro / AM hardtail with 160 mm (!!!) fork:

https://www.commencal-store.co.uk/meta-ht-am-race-650b-metallic-black-2017-c2x19265787

Sporty bike. Designed for speed. 65.5 deg head angle, 2.4 inch tires.
In "winter sale" for 1600 Euros
Other versions of this Commencal HT AM bike - also with 160 mm fork - down to around 1 k right now. Which is - for such a fantastic design - an extremely good price tag.

No idea how this bike pedals uphill. 160 mm fork travel is maybe already a bit extreme for an AM bike?

Crush Pro 150 and Commencal AM HT both for technical skilled riders and harsh Enduro races. Sporty and fast.
Bikes like the Merida BIG TRAIL (130 mm fork) are more playful, fun bikes for "entry level" bikers which like the PLUS tires (2.8 inch) and like the modern mtb geometry.

Dartmoor Hornet: pure downhill bike. Extreme hardtail. Heavy. Nothing to pedal uphill. Excellent price tag. Fits forks up to 180 mm travel?

beautiful, modern, hardtails, NUKEPROOF:
130 mm and 140 mm travel versions

Nukeproof 275 / 27.5 , 2.6 inch tires, 140 mm fork:
http://nukeproof.com/products/scout-275-comp/
head angle 65 deg !

Nukeproof 290 / 29 inch , 2.3 inch tires, 130 mm fork:
http://nukeproof.com/products/scout-290-comp/
head angle also 65 deg !!!

These bikes aren't for people which like the old fashioned XC, short travel and short frame stuff.

In my opinion so: the 27.5 inch bike with 140 mm fork is a blast!
Not cheap so.
More for "trail" riding.

Downside, in the shops here around: sold out!

I have recently bought the new 2018 Commencal Meta HT AM, and love it. 2.8" tires work well for me with both grip and smoothness good. 160mm fork at 65degrees but climbs wells well with steep seat tube angle.
[url= https://news.commencal.com/news/New-META-HT-AM/183.html ]Commencal Meta HT AM 2018[/url]

META HT AM ORIGIN

EUROPE: 1.099 €
USA: USD 1,099
CANADA: CAD 1,499
AUSTRALIA: AUD 1,599
NEW ZEALAND: NZD 1,799

META HT AM ESSENTIAL

EUROPE: 1.599 €
USA: USD 1,599
CANADA: CAD 2,149
AUSTRALIA: AUD 2,299
NEW ZEALAND: NZD 2,599

The Crush Pro seems to get decent reviews as an all rounder regardless of its travel but having read everyone’s opinions as much as I love the look of it, it’s probably not the right choice!

I put 160mm Yari forks on my Mondraker Vantage hardtail and it was fantastic! As a trail bike it was really good, much better than when it had 140mm on it. Climbed really well and was just "fun".
I sold it because it was a little harsh at the back and have now got a Scott Scale 650+ bike with 120mm - to be honest I have a bit of "buyers remorse" and wish I hadn't have been so hasty in selling the Mondraker!

I had a PP Shan with 160mm lyriks and it was loads of fun, point where you want to go, release brakes, scream 'til you get to the bottom, what's not to like. 😆 It'll have a go at most things. Forks need careful set up mind, and get a bike with right geometry and it's no bother climbing either.

They're not for every-one, but then it'd would dull, wouldn't it?

I’ve got the Vitus. It’s pretty good.

It’s no more squirrely that my previous 120mm hard tail, and not much different to the full suss I had before. Slower on rough stuff obviously, but not massively when I’m on it, cornering skills and bottle are my limiting factors.

I do agree that shorter travel and slacker angles are better though, probably 130mm is better. But a good long fork will be better than a cheap divey short one anyway

Why isn't a Bird on your list?! Honestly, sometimes I despair...

The Commencal Meta HT AM was mentioned now a couple times. Excellent hardcore Enduro / AM.

If you doubt that this type of bike is the right one for you - Commencal has a blast of a full suspension trail bike:

Full suspension META TR 4.2:

https://www.commencal-store.co.uk/meta-trail-v42-origin-yellow-2017-c2x19920844

price around 2 k
Excellent balanced travel:
130 mm rear
140 mm front
Head angle 66.5 deg
front tire 2.3 inch, rear 2.25
If you are interested search for some reviews.

In my opinion - when not going for a long travel, plus tire HT:
the TR 4.2 is pretty close to the "perfect" full suspension bike when NOT doing harsh Enduro races.

130 mm rear and 140 mm front is excellent. Modern geometry. Great, great bike.... Commencal picked - for a full suspension trail bike - also pretty much the ideal tire size.
Just as an idea!
This bike is no overkill. Just a great modern well designed bike from people which really know mountain bikes and which sell them for a fair price tag.

That 4.2 is around £1800 which seems good - everything sorted bar a dropper post. Put my height in and I am bang on between sizes!!!

Talk to Commencal about the size.
If you are "between sizes" - and for modern, stretched frames like the Commencal META TR: when picking the smaller size you get a very sporty, agile bike (I would pick this).
If you are more a heavy guy enjoying "cruising" - the bigger size might be right.
Commencal will advise.
Right now, winter sale: perfect time to buy.
Quality, price, design: Commencal is top notch and their trail bikes are an blast.

Quality, price, design: Commencal is top notch

I beg to differ after an email exchange with Greg The Liar who works in their customer 'service' department. I will never, ever buy anything from them again, ever. Ever.

Yes, I wouldn't want to go down this with my 150mm hardtail:

Thats cos you don't own:

[img] [/img]

(although you may want to swap tyres!)

😉

Quality, price, design: Commencal is top notch

hmmmm, they are overly fond of internal campy style headsets and press fit bottom brackets for my taste.

Ex[alt] FTW! I loved mine. Here it is being all small and short travel and no fun...

[img] [/img]

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaagh! Must... not... search... ebay...

An alternative to Commencal META TR full suspension trail bike:

YT Jeffsy AL One 27:

https://www.yt-industries.com/uk/detail/index/sArticle/1363/sCategory/508

Bit more expensive than the Commencal. High quality parts. Excellent design.
The Jeffsy is a 150/150 full suspension trail bike.
The Commencal Meta TR with 140/130 suspension might be more fun, more balanced and the better deal.

YT is more into the "very long travel" Enduro stuff - like the CAPRA.
Personally would opt for the Commencal.

Good: FUN!
Bad: Not as fast as fullsusser with the same fork length/geo...

Current MTB is a 140mm forked 29er Hardtail (Chromag Rootdown with Pikes). I have never ridden a 27.5/650B bike but the front/rear disparity is reduced significantly on a 29er as the wheel skips over more stuff compared to a 26er.

I would defo try and ride 27.5, 27.5+, 29 and maybe even a 29+ bikes before you make your decision, even if it's just to get an idea of how the wheels feel.

Some 29ers are 27.5+ compatible so the possibility of swapping between to two is there.

"fun" and modern geometry and long travel trail hard tail:

not too many fun options around. Lets say bikes like the Crush Pro 150.

if the thinking moves into the direction of moderate full suspension trail bike - let's say with modern geometry:

many options around. The mountain bike manufacturers concentrated onto this type of bikes in recent xx years.
Means if 130/140 or 130/130 or 150/150 and "aluminium" is the goal: many, many excellent options also in the price range "below 2k".
Time right now, winter sales: there are many very good deals out there.
You will find a bike which you will enjoy for the next 5 - 10 years!

I beg to differ after an email exchange with Greg The Liar who works in their customer 'service' department. I will never, ever buy anything from them again, ever. Ever.

Yeah, Commencal are a shower of the proverbial - I will never buy another one having been thoroughly dicked about after cracking one of the under-sized hardtails.

Long travle hardtail are great if you want a long travel hardtail, currently have a Scout with 160mm Pikes - the plan was to drop to 140mm but with the controls slammed the thing is a holigan.

There's a chicken and egg thing here, if you're making a slack "progressive" hardcore bike, you tend to make it longer travel. So if you want a hardcore hardtail sort of thing you tend to end up looking at long travel, just because that's what's out there. But the fork travel isn't really the important bit imo, it's the overall package- I put a 130mm fork in my Soul for the geometry not the travel (when it was rigid it had a 29er fork in it, to give it a suspension-corrected equivalent of a 130mm fork) My Ragley was built for 140mm and worked a charm but if it'd transferred the same geometry into a 120mm or even 100mm package I'd have ridden the same stuff on it.

Fun is a really unhelpful word, some people pay dominatrixes to step on their balls for fun. Some people play bridge.

Glad I saw this thread. In future while grinning from ear to ear after throwing my 100mm xc hardtail with 2.2" tyres down yet another rocky jumpy or steep descent I will be careful not to think I'm having fun.

The crush is simply a hardcore hardtail but the P7 is better ..

The Whyte 905 with boost and 2.8 tyres sould be given a good look over too long and slack plus the larger 2.8s on the rear give a little back in terms of rear bounce and with Maxxis doing 2.8 minion dhfs no worries about the grip levels , perhaps a p7 with plus wheels and 140 forks would be a good idea ?

You're very brave, sideshow. #prayforsideshow #thoughtsandprayers 😉

It touches me in a special way to know your thoughts and prayers are with me... hold on a sec, that might be bruising from the top tube.

😆

I need to not rush! I do hate being bikeless, but then again, I would rather make the right choice as its a bike I want to keep for a few years.

I'm going to be selling my recently acquired old shape BFe 275 frame (small, 142x12 rear, 44mm headtube) if you're interested...

I need to not rush! I do hate being bikeless, but then again, I would rather make the right choice as its a bike I want to keep for a few years.

Seeing as you're bikeless, I'd make a quick decision. Fitness, strength and skills trump anything about the bike when it comes to having fun and they're only getting worse whilst you're not pedalling!

I don't think anyone could accuse you of rushing your decision.

I've got a 2016 Hornet, size large i'm 6'2"
160mm fox 34's on 26" wheels

I find it ok on jump trails but boring as sh!t on normal trails, hardly feels like it wants to pop and not very playful.

Is it just me?

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Nope.

I have a Hornet 4X. it's the exact opposite.

gwurk - Member
Nope.

I have a Hornet 4X. it's the exact opposite.

Hmm, Can you get the seat post length to pedal it?

I have a 160mm Saracen Ariel so I can go on pedally rides on that worst case

Love my P7 with 140mm Pikes. It's never out of its depth at the front end, and that's riding rocky natural Pennine trails and steep and cheeky Hebden tech. Great fun. I had a 160mm SubZero which was also good, but that could be a bit of a see-saw when the going got really choppy. Mind you, forks and damping have improved loads since then. For me, 140mm is the sweet spot for a fun, capable and versatile hardtail that also climbs, maybe 150mm max.

Hmm, Can you get the seat post length to pedal it?

chakaping - Member
I don't think anyone could accuse you of rushing your decision.

Sorry but I did 😆

wl - Member

For me, 140mm is the sweet spot for a fun, capable and versatile hardtail that also climbs, maybe 150mm max.

120mm was always people's sweet spot in the past - I think modern forks like Pikes, etc are better at providing support and not diving, and most bikes are on bigger wheels now too, 27.5 or 29. 140mm on my Last is spot on, IMO

gwurk - Member
Hmm, Can you get the seat post length to pedal it?
Yes. But with a 450mm seatpost. although I haven't ridden it any way other than completely slammed (shorter seatpost) since before the summer.
I'm only 5'11" (33" inseam) though.
I don't also mind riding a bike stood up everywhere.

That would be quite some post!

I guess a dropper with some extension could work.

How do you find the reach?

120mm was always people's sweet spot in the past -

🙄

"Hardcore hardtail" originally meant something short travel with BMXesque parts you rode everywhere, hit proper dirtjumps on and weren't afraid to use at a skatepark. It now means something with powerful brakes, massive forks, big soft tyres that are generally skittered down slightly steep tracks in the woods with all the flamboyance of a duck.

Reach is perfect. when standing (which is all that matters)
it's longer than my BMX, shorter than my 170mm travel mtb

longer reach would be stupid on a bike you want to ride like this. If you're used to a longer bike while climbing seated. just bend yer elbows. 😉

I also have a 250mm drop dropper post on order.

It now means something with powerful brakes, massive forks, big soft tyres that are generally skittered down slightly steep tracks in the woods with all the flamboyance of a duck.

Hello! You called? 😉