[Closed] Accident - car driver wants to take my bike for analysis?

Actually I think you're right

[s]Woohoo, I win[/s] good, another person I've educated.

This may be a fairly recent general change/improvement, though certainly most policies always provided cover it's possible some didn't and it's not long ago I first looked at policy documents. As I said above, the wording is almost identical in all the policies I've looked at, so it's possibly something which has been rolled out across the industry.

Apologies for that interlude, back to your regular programming...

My home insurance has cover for accidental damage to the bicycles, but the legal cover is an add-on that I don't have. If I claim on my home insurance, though, surely they will seek to reclaim the cost from the other party?

That's sounding like the easiest option at the moment, without getting the vultures* involved.

It's her choice: she can either pay what you've asked for, or leave it to the insurers. Why not tell her you're going to contact them directly?

Is that a reasonable standpoint? What if I was asking for a very unreasonable cost? I'd be very pissed off if I accidentally damaged a POS bike while I was driving, and the owner turned round and demanded £4k to put it right? I wouldn't want to claim on my car insurance for that sort of thing?

I don't have her insurance details currently, so I don't have the option of speaking to them at present. The police are apparently chasing that up and will let me know, hopefully tomorrow. I'll keep quiet until then.

*No win, no fee lawyers.

You're being to nice to the woman. She's trying to wriggle out of paying. You've had lots of advice on here which you can choose to ignore.

If I knocked someone of their bike I'd expect to have my insurers involved from the off. The fact she hasn't tells me she will do her very best to pay you less than the excess on her policy.

If the police haven't been able to confirm she has insurance and she appears to be mad keen to avoid going through an insurance claim, then I reckon there's a good chance she doesn't have any insurance.

The costs will just keep rising for her now if it is the case.

You've been extremely patient with her, IMO, so credit for that.

She's lied to you (about involving her insurance, when clearly she is trying not to do it.), and is continuing to try to feed you bullsh*t about 'claims being void'.

Either she settles up or you can go down the legal route and it will end up costing her even more.

I was knocked off my bike and the legal expenses element of my household insurance took care of everything.

Took well over 18 months to settle but they stuck with it even when she kept denying everything. Ended up with a reasonable settlement.

Same for my brother in law. The driver kept denying everything until the day before the court date, at which point she caved in. He got a very nice S-Works out of it, but more importantly, money for the physio he needed.

Try legal on your car insurance if you have that.

Buy a copy of cycling weekly, there's 10's of no-win-no-fee cycling lawyers in the back. I suspect (It's the internet I'm allowed to make stuff up :p ) that most of the CTC legal insurance is them passing on your details to the same solicitors for a referal fee, why else would they be happy to back date it!

After all, she's taking advice from her "legal reprisentative" (likley Mumsnet) and it won't cost you.

without getting the vultures* involved.

*No win, no fee lawyers.

Not all no win no fee lawyers are the same as claims direct. Of course if you want make life better for the driver and worse for you, that's up to you.

If you claim on your house insurance you'll pay an excess, your premiums will go up and they aren't obliged to put you back in the position you were before the crash, so you'll probably not get the cost of replacing with something equivalent. There's every chance they won't bother pursuing the other party for what is for them a fairly low value claim, and even if they do you'll probably still lose out.

Heard from the 5'O on the insurance front yet?

So make sure that you have some record of correspondence with her. The initial communication would be useful later if she has been trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

There seems to be some great advice here on this forum so far, I would just add my opinion. It sounds to me like she is in control of the situation. She is asking your for things and making demands. I would now say that she has had her chance. I would proceed in a proactive, professional manner. The usual number of quotes is about three i think. Get four. supply them to her by email, all scans. Then also start to include all of the associated costs that are now piling up, bus to get to work, travel to get the quotes, petrol for the car, telephone calls and everything.

Then politely tell her your plan of action how to get this resolved (i,e, through the insurance comany), and give her a couple of days to respond. Oh, while I recommend the proactive approach, it might be useful to have some legal help with this too. Some solicitors do a 30 mins free consultation, I have used this before to see what my chances are like. If there are further fees, she will have to pay. Again more cost for her.

My guess is that she has no idea how much a bike costs. Many people don't.

If I claim on my home insurance, though, surely they will seek to reclaim the cost from the other party?

bet if it was a few grand for a carbon road bike instead of a £100 wheel they'd have chased.

A couple of grand is still small beer compared to the legal cost of chasing (and the scale of other claims on household insurance) - I bet they wouldn't.

some good advice above.
My tuppence worth is to echo comments above, cut off contact with the driver and seek legal advice. I got hit by a post office van and their lawyers were quite aggressive.
I engaged the services of bikeline and they were great, once they decided there was a good chance i'd win (they were upfront in that they didnt want to take hopeless cases) the first thing they did was contact my insurers to ascertain my legal cover.
They were helpful, efficient and knowledgeable.
Keep the bike, go get legal advice.

I bet they wouldn't.

admittedly the registered keeper got points and a fine.

Was knocked off by a bus and I dealt with the insurance company for compensation up,to a point 10 months down the line before they started to piss me about. I eventually got a bike specific solicitor to fight my case. 2 quotes from an independent and one for Evans and both wrote off bike. At no point did the other company want to see bike. Take plenty pics and get the qoes and send directly to your solicitor to send to her insurance company. You don't deal with her directly in anyway, let the solicitor and insurance company fight it all out.

Any update on this?

Any news?

Ha, just did a search for this thread because I wanted to know if there'd been any further developments! 😛

Alas, the life of the pathologically nosy is a trying one. 🙁

100

Yes, I need closure, update please!

project - Member

http://www.bikeline.co.uk Like i said earlier try , have a look at their website for further info and its free.

If you dont do it legally and correct then she may well go down that road and turn the tables on you.

and stop talking to her, unless you wannt a date.

+1 for Bikeline, they understand cyclists. They were a great help to me a couple of years ago after I got knocked off in the City of London and I can't praise them highly enough.

Sorry everyone I've been busy (getting married) and stuck this on the backburner. We're at a bit of an impasse though; she doesn't want to pay full price and I don't want to settle for less. Neither of us really have a clue how to proceed. But I shall send her an ultimatum email and if she doesn't go for that, speak to the bike lawyer types (shudder).

Put a claim in to her insurers. That'll cost her.

Neither of us really have a clue how to proceed.

You really dont know how to proceed, despite what just about everyone is telling you to do?

Police and Lawyer and get a claim in pronto

Yep, don't let her off. Unleash the legal types on her insurance.

If she gets away with this one, what next?

Issue a mall claims court summons for what she owes you (including expenses but don't take the wee wee), the limit is £10,000 now.

She will have to respond to that, keep records/copies as evidence and all correspondence from everyone.

Nope, I have no intention of letting it slide. I was hoping to get some money from her without resorting to the lawyers (which will only add to her bill) but if I can't do that then I'll speak to bikeline.

You are supposed to report the accident to the police inside a certain time so don't leave it too long! Is it 14 days? Could be in trouble already

I was knocked off on May 3rd still have a very sore neck and damaged hand. I'm unable to ride but have had a replacement bike already as I had cover via my home insurance.

My insurers looked at the photos of my bike and just said replace it.

Waiting to see how much surgery my hand will need, dislocated finger, displaced bones and sore neck mean at least another 6-8 weeks off the bike!

Not sure about the limit for reporting to the police, they say within 24 hours but I don't know if that's concrete. I think the onus is on the car driver to report it - I don't know if she ever did or not, but I did. Either way, the police have been to see her and verify her insurance details etc.

You can claim for damages at any point in 3 years after the accident.

Superficial - Member
We're at a bit of an impasse though; she doesn't want to pay full price and I don't want to settle for less. Neither of us really have a clue how to proceed.

I'm sorry, but it [u]needs[/u] to go to the lawyers now, it doesn't really matter if she does or doesn't want to pay full price, she needs to put things back as they were before the accident, if I, or any reasonable person for that matter, hit, knocked someone off or damaged someone else's property I'd be doing my upmost to put things right, not trying to wriggle out of paying a few pounds, things could have been a lot worse after all.

I think I'd try once more, out of courtesy saying she has x amount of days to pay x amount or you'll be going through the insurance/small claims, it seems to me as if you've been more than reasonable enough so far, a lot more reasonable than I'd have been.

Yep, take it to court ASAP. It takes ages to get seen anyway, and there's nothing to stop her just paying up before it gets there once you've got the ball rolling.

please just file this with the police and get her insurance details and make a claim. Use one of the bike specific lawyers if you need to but this has gone on long enough with enough lies.

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[quote=andyl ]please just file this with the police and get her insurance details and make a claim. Use one of the bike specific lawyers if you need to but this has gone on long enough with enough lies.

This Simple and effective and means that another bike getting hit actually makes it onto the stats. If you don't report it you have let every other vulnerable road user down. Forget any kind of poor feelings go for that route.
When you have her insurance details (which is why it's compulsory to have insurance) tell her you will be claiming from HER insurer. There is not much she can do about that as you are making the claim. She will be forced to deal with it then.

I was hoping to get some money from her without resorting to the lawyers (which will only add to her bill)

Why on earth are you worried about the size of her bill? She's had her chance, all that's happening here is extra trouble for you.

Neither of us really have a clue how to proceed

No [u]you don't know how to proceed[/u]. She is hoping that she gets away with it. Which at the moment she is!

Ask her either for the value of the bike or her insurance details. If she refuses to provide her insurance details go to the police.

I was hoping to get some money from her without resorting to the lawyers (which will only add to her bill)

Remember it isn't her bill. It's her insurance companies bill.

What are insurance companies for? You damage somebodies property. You can't afford to repair the damage. The insurance steps in and pays for/repairs the damage. Simple!

Superficial - Member
Not sure about the limit for reporting to the police, they say within 24 hours but I don't know if that's concrete. I think the onus is on the car driver to report it - I don't know if she ever did or not, but I did. Either way, the police have been to see her and verify her insurance details etc.

You can claim for damages at any point in 3 years after the accident.

Now the 24 hour bit.

If there is no one about who would have an interest in being furnished with those details, then the driver of that motorvehicle must report the collision to the police as soon as reasonably practicable, AND IN ANY CASE within 24 hours.

In other words if they hit another car/cyclist/pedestrian/animal/bit of roadside furniture/fence/wall/shrubbery then they must stop and tell them or the owner of that object their reg number and name and address of teh keeper and driver if different.

They only have to give insurance details (and then only the name of their insurers) if they have caused personal injury to any person.

If there isn't anyone around to give their details to (eg they hit a wall in the middle of the night) they need to report the accident to the police as soon as they can. That means they go to the nearest police station to report it as soon as that station is open. The 24 hours bit is only in the worst case scenario,. It assumes even the most catastrophically stupid people would fail to find a cop or an open station within 24 hours. It doesn't give them a leisurely time period to think about telling the cops while they tweet or post the incident on facebook.

when I was hit I was just required to get an lbs to check it over and assess damage, which was charged to the insurance company.

I think I can see where she is coming from. If She hit another car, lets say a 10yr old Mondeo. The Mondeo cot £19k new, but is now worth £1400.
The insurance company , if it were to go through them , would give the Mondeo driver £1400 probably. Not £22k for a new Mondeo.

She wants to give you the second hand value of a used bike, and you want a 'new for old' replacement like they do with household goods.

You want a brand new shiney bike @ £999 to replace the one you were on , that , if put on Ebay / Classifieds would get hmmm dont know what you were riding or how new so lets say £600.

You , being a man and understanding car insurance knows she will have to pay her excess and suffer increased premiums and loss of no claims bonus over the next 5ish years. So its well worth her while to settle away from insurance.

She sees a second hand used bike that looks like any other bike you can get on Ebay for £250.

sorry for the slight hijack, but wouldnt mind a quickish answer on something that happened yesterday.

a young kid, riding on the road, went into the back of my daughters car, smashing a headlight and scratching the bodywork. car was parked outside our house.
daddy came along, a neighbour suggested an ambulance for the kid as it looked like a broken arm, and was told "i dont know how you do things round here, but we dont call for ambulances"!! wtf??

anyways, he went off with kiddy saying hed be back. he didnt. obviously the kiddy is main priority and we werent too bothered bout him coming back yesterday evening. im going to have to visit him later tho if he doesnt pop round today.
where does my daughter stand on this? obviously the damage wouldnt be covered by mateys car insurance as that wasnt involved. home insurance? nothing? if he wanted could he tell her to do one?

hope you can give me a bit of info before i pop round.

thanks

A car is a tradeable commodity - that's why it's valid to quote equivalent replacement cost for cars.

A bike however is not a commodity and that's why it costs more to get one in the same condition.

singletrackmind - as explained up thread, he's entitled to be put back in the position he was before the crash. With a car you can just buy an equivalent replacement. It doesn't really work like that with a bike. In any case, his bike is damaged not totalled, so he needs new parts. Undoubtedly like most people she doesn't realise how much nice bikes cost, and/or doesn't appreciate the difference between cheap and expensive bits (that or she's just trying it on).

sadexpunk - kid/daddy is liable, so you can ask him for the money (and sue via small claims if he won't pay). Common misconception about insurance - it covers him for 3rd party claims against him, not the people making claims, if he doesn't have any it comes out of his own pocket. As also mentioned up thread, he'll almost certainly be covered under house insurance if he has that though.

...went into the back of my daughters car, smashing a headlight...

Christ, exactly how fast was the kid going?! 😯

haha, oops, obviously meant a rear light 🙂

apparently the blokes been in touch and said either my daughter can claim on her insurance, and he'll pay the excess (wont that have a negative effect on her premiums in future?) or she can get the work done and then tell him. what that means i dont know. cant imagine him being too quick to pay up a few hundred quid if thats what it costs.

so.... according to the advice given

sadexpunk - kid/daddy is liable, so you can ask him for the money (and sue via small claims if he won't pay). Common misconception about insurance - it covers him for 3rd party claims against him, not the people making claims, if he doesn't have any it comes out of his own pocket. As also mentioned up thread, he'll almost certainly be covered under house insurance if he has that though.

thanks

You are supposed to report the accident to the police inside a certain time so don't leave it too long! Is it 14 days? Could be in trouble already

as it appears she has stopped and gave details to you she has met her obligations so the reporting to police bit is moot.

Have you got her registration? www.askmid.com will tell you whether she is/was insured. I'd be talking to lawyers now, sadly, as she is messing you about and I'd be suspecting she doesnt have insurance.

tbh, I've lost patience with the OP.

I don't know how many people are going to have to say 'She won't pay any money unless forced to either at gun point or by the law' before it sinks in.

OP, you are clearly trying to be nice. I commend you for that. You're trying to be reasonable, but I think the above advice is bang on. Lawyer up. It may well cause her to just stop arsing about. I suspect she can't pay for a new bikie, and doesn't want to get insurance involved, but that's what insurance is for, so she doesn't really have much choice.

@sadexpunk

He's right. The presence of your daughter's car was a contributory factor in the injury to the child. Legally, as the user of the motorvehicle involved she is under an obligation to provide him with details and inform her insurers of the incident. There will now be a tirade of posts pointing out it was the child's fault, but that's actually down to the insurers to settle, not your daughter.

To the letter of the law she is under an obligation to furnish details and the small print of her insurance policy will insist she tells the insurers about the collision and injury to the child. How they deal with it from there is up to them, not up to your daughter, or the father of the child.

However, back here in reality what the father has proposed sounds perfectly reasonable. He appears to acknowledge his liability and appears to accept he's going to be out of pocket. Best case scenario is a trip to a Mr Scratch type chip repair centre and a new light cluster , and shifting through the spectrum of options to a proper insurance quote a bodyshop repair costing the father £200-£500 in excess (or whatever the excess actually is) to the worst case scenario where the child is unable to pursue career as violin virtuso, father sues your daughter because the car wasn't parked lawfully and she becomes uninsurable because she hasn't complied with her obligations in her insurance policy agreement.

right, thanks. spose i dont totally understand all that, but in the first case she rings her insurers and tells them of the incident and gives details. i assume she'll need mateys name, address and insurance company too? house insurance yep?

and in the meantime get quotes for the work? and i also assume she cant get the work done herself, the insurers would have to nominate a place to do it?

at what point does she tell the insurers tho? after shes got the quote, matey says no im not paying that, tell your insurers? or right now, even if matey would prefer to pay the cost rather than the excess?

thanks again

EDIT: that advice also seems to contradict aracers advice above, where daddy is liable, ask him for the money, he has to claim through his insurance and small claims if he doesnt pay?

will both bits of advice have no effect on daughters insurance premiums in future? she obviously doesnt want to have 'made a claim' for something that wasnt her fault as that would have a negative impact in future wouldnt it?

sadexpunk - Member

sorry for the slight hijack, but wouldnt mind a quickish answer on something that happened yesterday.

a young kid, riding on the road, went into the back of my daughters car, smashing a headlight and scratching the bodywork. car was parked outside our house.
daddy came along, a neighbour suggested an ambulance for the kid as it looked like a broken arm, and was told "i dont know how you do things round here, but we dont call for ambulances"!! wtf??

anyways, he went off with kiddy saying hed be back. he didnt. obviously the kiddy is main priority and we werent too bothered bout him coming back yesterday evening. im going to have to visit him later tho if he doesnt pop round today.
where does my daughter stand on this? obviously the damage wouldnt be covered by mateys car insurance as that wasnt involved. home insurance? nothing? if he wanted could he tell her to do one?

hope you can give me a bit of info before i pop round.

thanks

A kid dashed out between some parked cars on his BMX a few years ago and t-boned the side of my car. His handlebars smashed my door glass, and the door was smashed in. Amazingly he was fine, which was good. I had to pay for the repairs myself, the police weren't interested, and the father basically said 'tough sh1t'.

tbh, I've lost patience with the OP.

^+1.

It's all very well being nice, and you have given her every chance to settle this the way she wanted to settle it (not involving her insurance company) but you need to get a grip, realise that she's trying to wriggle out of paying all/some of what is owed and do something about it.

Get her insurance details, phone the insurance company and tell them the situation. Give them or refer them to the police statement/witnesses and let them sort it out. Easy. If she doesn't give you the insurance details, go back to the police.

she obviously doesnt want to have 'made a claim' for something that wasnt her fault

Case law has recently said that a parked car can amount to careless driving ie. the courts have concluded the accident doesnt have to be caused by a person driving a car, but also having driven a car. So if your daughter's car was dangerously parked she could still be held at fault. And its always been the case that you have to declare making a claim regardless of who was at fault, as far as insurers are concerned if you've made a claim you are at a higher risk of claiming again (eg. if you park on a busy road and keep getting hit, live in a rough area and keep getting it broken into).

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2013/2/12/court-rules-leaving-a-vehicle-in-a-hazardous-position-amounts-to-careless-driving/46180/

@sadexpunk

A similar thing happened to me a few years ago.

A kid went into the rear light of my car and looked pretty hurt. His dad came along a few moments later, stopped, muttered something and we both kinda looked at each other as what to do.

As I went into get a pen an paper I kinda thought what's the point, the kid was fine and so I said not to bother.

For the sake of £45 for a replacement from ebay it really wasn't worth getting insurance involved.

Weigh up the situation. I may have been lucky with the cost of the replacement (and I'm not overly precious about cars) but sometimes it's not worth the hassle.

@OP on the other hand - Get on with it! 😆

I had to pay for the repairs myself, the police weren't interested, and the father basically said 'tough sh1t'.

..and you didn't try pursuing it legally?

re: kid on bike hitting car.

How bad are the scratches and can you get a light cheap enough on ebay etc?

What is the car and how old is it?

I would probably go down the route of being sympathetic to their side and if the scratches were not too bad/car already scratched and it was cheap enough not bother and just fix it.

Or get a quite from a scratch repair place and find a 2nd hand headlight and see how much it's going to be. Then get a quote from an expensive place and say to the dad you would be happier with the cheaper option.

But if the cost will be more than the excess it will be hard to justify them paying for it. But don't be fooled into assuming that your daughters insurance won't go up. It will, regardless of blame so I would want to factor it in to the remuneration.

Regarding the legality make sure the car was parked legally and when you settle the financial aspects (or not if you don't want to) you probably want to get a piece of paper signed absolving your daughter of any blame/saying they won't sue her etc. There is a term for it but I'm not a laywer. Talking of which it might be worth asking one for advice, get your daughter to check her home insurance or car insurance for free legal cover.

any news yet?

I sent her an ultimatum today, and gave her 7 days to reply before I go to bikeline / her insurer. I kinda realise this is just what I should have done from day 1 but never mind. Feels like progress, but just waiting to hear from her now.

I sent her an ultimatum today, and gave her 7 days to reply before I go to bikeline / her insurer

That was what you could have done a while back. Today was your time to get lawyered-up and get them to write the letter.

Give her 168 hours and no more. She's running rings round you, as things stand.

Am I missing something? I don't see what the rush is?

I can make a claim on her insurance within three years of the accident, so a couple of weeks is neither here nor there. Obviously people on here want to read a happy ending to the story but she doesn't 'win' from this unless I give up (which I won't) or the three year clock expires (which is 2.9 years away).

The issue is that it's causing you a lot more hassle than it should and she thinks she's winning.

And she has time to come up with excuses, defences, accusations, false witnesses to support her. And the recollection of your witnesses becomes more vague, they become less supportive and interested in helping out.

You were in a rush to ask for advice, the choice to ignore the consensus (much based on experience) is yours, good luck with the final outcome.

Well done for being so patient, it's sad that your patience did not yield any results. There is some good advice on here even if the majority wont be happy until you've stormed round this woman's house, shat on her doorstep, kicked her dog and called her cat a bastard.

JonR - Member

Well done for being so patient, it's sad that your patience did not yield any results.

+1 - nice to at least try to sort it amicably.

The amicable bit was 3 weeks ago, since then the driver has apparently lied to and misled the OP, who seems to be issuing elastic deadlines. In 11+ years as a copper I've never known a case dragging on unnecessarily (eg not waiting for forensic evidence) to benefit, especially those involving witnesses who's sense of duty has a short sell-by date.

Ah well gents, it's his f up. Let him make it.

Basically OP you are being really nice about this and she is trying to **** you over,I assume you are not desperate for any money hence your laid back attitude .

I can only assume the lady in question is a very sexy, and the OP is only being this reasonable to curry favour.

It's. The. Only. Explanation.

Ummmm curry flavour 🙂 The best super noodles

I'd ask her for more money or threaten contacting her insurance company. Because being a blackmailer is still better than having to speak to an insurance company.

The week's ultimatum is nearly up. She coughed up yet?

UPDATE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The week's ultimatum is nearly up. She coughed up yet?

Yep. She replied to my ultimatum with a counter offer of pretty much what I had in my head, and the money is now in my bank.

The amount probably wasn't quite as much as I might have received from her insurer, but overall it seems like a fair amount and I'm satisfied that I haven't ripped anyone off / put money into the hands of lawyers / insurers / driven insurance premiums up etc. So basically I'm about as happy as I could be, really.

What did I learn? I think the main point was that I was always in complete control (whether I realised it or not). My 'ultimatum' could have been made from the start and this may have been over a bit quicker, but I feel better for having at least given her a chance.

So yeah, I'm happy. I've already bought a new helmet and I've got some money to spend on another bike. Thanks for all the advice and criticism!

Happy ending. Good job for being the reasonable man in this unreasonable world. I've been following this with interest so glad to see you got a good result.

Great news.

Cool!

My 'ultimatum' could have been made from the start

Surprising that no one advised you of this earlier. Ah well, good to hear it's all resolved.

Good. you've got a pay out much quicker than you would through the courts or insurers.

Great news that you got good offer from the driver and the cash in the bank; especially without all the extra hassle and wait of having to go through more official channels.