[Closed] Abuse for not using a cycle path..

Get it on camera before going to police, see if you can get the driver to make brexit comments too.

Would the police do anything?

No.  A high number of reported crimes are not dealt with at all and this 'crime' would be very low on that list that don't ever get looked at.

Camera and Police, it's unacceptable abuse and a very bad attitude for driving. If you have a good police force they will come and say hello to them

There's nothing you can do - for a non-cyclist there seems no sense in not using a cycle path* and if that non-cyclist is a dickwit driver who once was "held up" for 5 or 10 seconds then there's a great opportunity for then to have a good froth

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px;">If you have a good police force</span>

bad news on that score, unless he's moved

If you’re pissed then sobering up would be a good start. Getting a camera would be a reasonable second step.

Regarding the verbal stuff, I know it's not easy to do but you could always ignore it, let it go rather than let it play on your mind. Why make yourself suffer because they're a ****t?

I'd get the camera and next time it happens simply say " hello - you are on Camera"

then a 7 foot knuckle dragger gets out the car and pulls the camera off your helmet and then pulls your head off and chucks it on the cycle path, thereby achieveing his goal. Always avoid confrontation is my take, just ignore him and be on your way.

Pop round the estate in the evening and if you see his car, slash the tyres.

It's the grown up thing to do.

At 27mph, you’re technically going too fast to be on a shared use cycle path anyway, so are in the correct place on the road.

What jekyll said - knobs in all walks of life, don't take it personally.

[b]scaredypants[/b] wrote:

bad news on that score, unless he’s moved

Unlike bad driving, they're unlikely to ignore abuse (I'd be tempted to see if you can get him to also threaten you if you really want the police to take action). It's far less subjective or open to biased juries. If they do ignore it then you report them.

At 27mph, you’re technically going too fast to be on a shared use cycle path anyway, so are in the correct place on the road.

Opinion rather than legislation, no?

Or to the non emergency number using the words slurring, not staying in the lane, unpredictable driving....

Just be satisfied that you’ve held him up for another 5-10 seconds. He’s now experienced another bout of unnecessary stress that will lead him to an early grave.

Calm down, there’s nothing you can do about his attitude. Having a word about the rules of the road isn’t going to change his mind.

If given the chance to have a chat about it, I offer to use the cycle path if they take the bus once in a while. Always amuses me that they won't delay their essential journey by 10 seconds to drive at the speed limit behind a cyclist (but will happily sit behind another car doing the same speed) - yet they always seem to find a couple of minutes to stop and vent their spleen.

It backfired once, driver did a U turn up the road, came back towards me and went the wrong way around a roundabout in order to hit me head-on.

It's absolute crap, and makes my blood boil, but I can't imagine the police will do anything about it

What jekyll said – knobs in all walks of life, don’t take it personally.

This..

Riding a bike on the road seems to currently equate to meeting more fkwits than usual.

There is a reason cars have wing mirrors

27 mph? Stealth humblebrag!

If you’re pissed then sobering up would be a good start

I believe our OP was communicating a certain frustration by utilising the (increasingly popular) US vernacular 🤓

Should they be shouting abuse no.... but it's hardly simple

Playing devil's advocate

At 27 in a 50 you're causing a hazard.

You have a perfect right to do so (ish)... but that's why they built a cycle path.

In a way its like when I have driven home from Wickes with stuff doing 20 in a 30 zone... technically I can be pulled over for causing a hazard for driving slowly.  The correct police response is hire a van or pay for delivery.  Luckily I don't do it often and never got stopped but if I am then I wouldn't try arguing my rights...

Can you go faster than is safe on the cycle path... yep 27mph might be viewed as unsafe for other users... and is it in crap repair... yep but in the same way the car can also go faster than 50mph (by a huge margin) and drive within the conditions etc...

From your side you want to go out and push yourself (understandable but I'm playing Devils Advocate)... but what would we say about a car or motorbike driver doing the same?  Probably go and race on a ***ing racetrack

If the cycle path is unsafe at 27mph then surely the "correct safety answer" from the police is to "ride more slowly within the conditions then".

If you want to go fast then the "correct safety answer" from the police is "go do it on closed roads or a velodrome"

So Devils Advocate played I'd say go with Jekkyl ...

They are acting like arses.... but from their PoV so are you...

The Met have a team of police officers going around catching people doing close passes; it also seems to be quite a good way to catch other offences.

        https://twitter.com/MetCycleCops

Perhaps worth writing to the police commissioner for your area to ask why they're not doing the same thing?

Operation Close Pass, unbelievably, only lasted weeks in the Southampton area back in October... Yet there are plenty of twonks on the road between traditional rush hours and the numbers at ~0600 are increasing too.

<span style="color: #444444; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: #eeeeee;">At 27 in a 50 you’re causing a hazard.</span>

Oh don't be bloody ridiculous.

I've taught myself to call  "Thanks for the advice!"

It gets it off my chest without inflaming the situation.

If they stop, I follow it up with "Thanks for the advice, I'll consider it next time I'm next to a messed up cycle lane" and if the circumstances call for it "Wow, you really are as stupid as you look".  That usually helps calm it down a bit.

knobs in all walks of life, don’t take it personally.

Opinion rather than legislation, no?

Legislation, the approved code of practice says no more than 18mph or 30kph on shared use/cyclepaths.

code of practice is not law.  any link to this?  I have never seen it

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 24px; font-style: italic; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">knobs in all walks of life, don’t take it personally.</span>

If they're in my space and a threat to my safety I'll try and remember that.  I may not always succeed.

had the same experience in Germany  few years back. Was a quiet Sunday morning, bike fully loaded with touring gear, bike path was terrible so I went on the road. At the lights  a local pulled up and went mental - in german of course. I just smiled back and said good morning and pulled the foreigner card 😉

Cycle paths are there for a reason,  use them whenever possible I say. Abuse from other road users is OTT and out of order, but still cyclists love to moan about having better infrastructure and when it is put in and some decide not to use, some abuse is probably to be expected. If you decide not to use the infrastructure put in for you then you should do it in full knowledge that some 'erberts out there will not be able to help themselves. I just swear under my breath and shake my head in a disapproving manner when I see it. If cyclists want peoples attitudes to change towards them then the ball is just as much in their court as the other road users. People don't respond well to others demanding things from them so are more likely to dig their heels in and resist which is where I think we currently are on this whole issue - a big fat stalemate with no side wanting to back down. A bit of give and take from both sides is what is required.

A cyclist who wants to 'make progress' on public infrastructure wether it be road our shared cycle path still needs to observe and be respectful of other road users just as cyclists demand from car/lorry/van drivers and pedestrians. These are not racetracks at the end of the day, so just as you'd expect a speeding car to slow down and take care as it approaches other road users, so should a speeding cyclist. It's not their personal raceway.

Code of practice is definitely not law. Not much of the HWC is written down in law, it is mostly a set of rules that we should adhere to in order for everything to work nicely rather than something that is enshrined in law - hence why it's the Highway Code and not Highway Law. I learned this when I passed a car turning right who had, unbeknownst,  flashed an oncoming car to turn right in front of them, so we had a coming together. I said I was in the right because the HWC says if you're crossing the path of a carriageway you need to give way and proceed with caution (or words to that effect) and they argued I was undertaking. The Police were not interested as none of this is written into the Road Traffic Act, so neither of us had 'broken the law', so we left it for the insurance companies to fight it out. I won.

[b]wordnumb[/b] wrote:

At 27mph, you’re technically going too fast to be on a shared use cycle path anyway, so are in the correct place on the road.

Opinion rather than legislation, no?

There's no legislation saying you have to use the shared use path, so how does that have any relevance at all?

"had the same experience in Germany  few years back. Was a quiet Sunday morning, bike fully loaded with touring gear, bike path was terrible so I went on the road. At the lights  a local pulled up and went mental – in german of course. I just smiled back and said good morning and pulled the foreigner card"

Until recently in Germany if there was a cycleway you were legally obliged to use it.  IIRC its been changed in the last couple of years

A quick squirt from your water bottle while he had the window down would've been good. Shame you bottled out of following him home. I'm guessing he wasn't up for a scrap or he'd have stopped sooner. Failing that take his mirror off. Remember a hard downward strike to it. If he complains tell him he wasnt using it anyway so what's the problem.

@ aracer. Just curious. The phrase "technically going too fast" sounded like it may relate to something official, of which, like TJ, I am unaware. Because the legislation doesn't exist.

Is strict thread relevance a new rule of the new forum? Is there legislation to back it up? *smileywinkyemoji*

For every clown in a car telling you to use the cycle path, there's another on the shared cycle path to shout at you for going too fast/not ringing a bell/ringing a bell etc.

You can't win.  Some people are just absolute bell-ends with an overwhelming sense of personal entitlement.

Cycle paths are there for a reason,  use them whenever possible I say. Abuse from other road users is OTT and out of order, but still cyclists love to moan about having better infrastructure and when it is put in and some decide not to use, some abuse is probably to be expected.

This is part of the problem.  Lots of cycle paths are appallingly poorly thought out, so they are not "better" infrastructure.

If they were "better", there would be no reason to continue using the road.  There is usually a very good reason that people don't use them.  They also might be "better" for some cyclists e.g. old ladies and kids....but not for a commuter travelling at ~20mph.

But people like to make it "black" and "white", "them" and "us".

to be fair it does sometimes get irritating when you get stuck behind a cyclist as there is no way to safely pass and there is an empty cycle lane next to them.

But

I can completely understand why some cyclists are on the road rather than on the cycle path at times. Cycle paths can have a bit of conflict due to bimblers, seasoned riders, congestion and then other users if mixed use or adjacent to pavement. People in this country are just not educated enough on correct cycling behaviour.

And then of course there is the problem of cars parked in the cycle lane. Any vehicle blocking a cycle path should be crushed immediately.

I think the "legal" aspect of Daffy's post is that cycle lanes are typically not designed for such fast cycling. There's no law against it but you can expect to find a bend or a bus-stop in the way.

Tbh, I thought there was a fairly low actual speed limit on cycle paths- around 13mph or something.  Not sure where I got that idea, but I had a feeling it was due to their shared nature.  20-30mph around pedestrians and kids is clearly unreasonable whether you have brakes or not...

I would just mutter "dick" to myself and carry on. Confronting them physically or verbally 'might' make you feel better for a while but it wont do anything towards changing their opinion or reducing the chances of them doing it again and it might escalate into who knows what which would just ruin your day even more.

Idiots gonna be idiots the best you can do is limit your interactions with them.

[b]wordnumb[/b] wrote:

@ aracer. Just curious. The phrase “technically going too fast” sounded like it may relate to something official, of which, like TJ, I am unaware. Because the legislation doesn’t exist.
Is strict thread relevance a new rule of the new forum? Is there legislation to back it up? *smileywinkyemoji*

Fairy nuff 😆 - I was mistakenly assuming arguing rather than seeking clarification <insert blushing emoticon here if I had an emoticon button>

Though as pointed out, the code of practice is something official even if it's not legislation.

"Why aren't they riding on the cycle path?"

https://twitter.com/bollocksinfra

Blimey. Thought that would just be a link rather than occupying three screens' worth of the thread and missing out all the embedded tweets, making it confusing and kinda useless. Hey ho. Yay the new forum.

I’ve heard about the speed on cycle lanes thing and I think it comes from some long lost scroll.

Another interesting snippet arises from a Department for Transport consultation document that never turned into anything other than a consultation. The 2004 Local Transport Notes on Walking and Cycling document had an annex D  Code of Conduct Notice for Cyclists which recommends "As a general rule, if you want to cycle quickly, say in excess of 18 mph/30 kph, then you should be riding on the road."

HIghway code sort of mentions

• The use of cycle routes, advance stop lines, cycle boxes and toucan crossings may make a cyclist’s journey safer but the use of these is not compulsory – Rule 61

and Also mentions the non compulsory motorist rules

• When passing cyclists, motorists should allow plenty of room – Rule 212

• Cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Motorists should therefore give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction which the cyclist may have to take – Rule 213.

I was also going to suggest incanting ‘ Bez’ three times as this is his thang 🙂

IMHO You can’t really argue well with a 2 ton armchair.

Abuse for not using a cycle path...is there anything you can do about it?

Yes, you can use the cycle path.

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: #eeeeee;">Yes, you can use the cycle path.</span>

Because, as any social historian will tell you, if you provide crap facilities for a minority group and force them to use them against their will by shouting abuse at them or assaulting them if they refuse, that group clearly has no grounds for complaint and it really works out well and everyone gets on just fine.

Or maybe if everyone used them they would build better ones and more of them due to demand.

[b]wobbliscott[/b] wrote:

Cycle paths are there for a reason,  use them whenever possible I say.

Yes, the reason being that councils have a budget to spend and/or in order to get cyclists out of the way of proper road users. Sure somewhere underneath there is an intention to improve things for cyclists, but that tends to be lost by the time implementation happens more often than not. The vast majority certainly aren't there in order to make it easier, faster or safer for cyclists. As for using one wherever possible, it's certainly possible to use [url= http://wcc.crankfoot.xyz/facility-of-the-month/June2017.htm ]this[/url] or [url= http://wcc.crankfoot.xyz/facility-of-the-month/May2016.htm ]this[/url] or [url= http://wcc.crankfoot.xyz/facility-of-the-month/April2014.htm ]this[/url] - are you sure you're using the correct wording there, or would something different be more appropriate?

Abuse from other road users is OTT and out of order, but still cyclists love to moan about having better infrastructure and when it is put in and some decide not to use, some abuse is probably to be expected.

Your point is? Because as a rule, if cyclists aren't using the infrastructure, then it isn't better infrastructure - there's a simple rule of thumb here, make the infrastructure good enough and cyclists will use it. Personally I'd love to have better infrastructure, and I've been actively involved in pushing for it - that doesn't mean I have to use every rubbish bike facility there is which makes my life less convenient and less safe. There's a fundamental failure of logic with your argument here. It also seems that you think the abuse is justified...

If cyclists want peoples attitudes to change towards them then the ball is just as much in their court as the other road users.

Bingo. The good old "if cyclists want drivers attitudes to change argument". I've got news for you, when I'm riding a bike I'm not "cyclists" - I don't see what the behaviour of anybody else riding a bike should make to the attitude of drivers to me.

A bit of give and take from both sides is what is required.

You write as if it is a balanced situation - it isn't, motorists already take far more than their fair share, cyclists don't have to give them anything in order to obtain fairness.

A cyclist who wants to ‘make progress’ on public infrastructure wether it be road our shared cycle path still needs to observe and be respectful of other road users just as cyclists demand from car/lorry/van drivers and pedestrians. These are not racetracks at the end of the day, so just as you’d expect a speeding car to slow down and take care as it approaches other road users, so should a speeding cyclist.

I'm not sure how you think a cyclist isn't being respectful of other road users when they're just riding along the road. Nor am I sure what you think constitutes speeding for a cyclist - 27mph certainly isn't on a 50 limit road.

If you're referring to the use of shared paths, then of course you should slow down and take care when approaching other users - which is why if you want to get somewhere without being unduly delayed a shared use path isn't suitable. Hence shared use paths aren't "better infrastructure" - mostly they're just a sop. Of course in the same way if drivers don't like having to share the road with cyclists and want to go faster without being held up behind them they should be on the motorways.

[b]rene59[/b] wrote:

Or maybe if everyone used them they would build better ones and more of them due to demand.

Or maybe if everybody used them they'd build more rubbish ones because they'd think the existing ones were fine. Honestly that's about the most rubbish argument for using cycle paths I've ever seen - even if all cyclists used the paths and none used the roads I doubt that would result in a single meter of high standard infrastructure being built.

Yep, best plan i would say! Just carry on with your day serenely and chuckle when you realise dicks will always be dicks and they can't affect you if you don't let them.

Most but not all cyclepaths are worse than useless

Anyone who thinks all cyclist should use them all the time obviously never rides a bike around town or on roads.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Wow, that is quite special (the first one, damn you for editing and making your images work) - exactly what purpose is that supposed to serve?

Dunno aracer - can't figure it out at all.  Starts and finishes at the central islands.

this one is my favourite

[img] [/img]

Abuse from other road users is OTT and out of order, but still cyclists love to moan about having better infrastructure and when it is put in and some decide not to use, some abuse is probably to be expected.

So, if women feel unsafe on late night trains, and women only carriages are provided, but those carriages have no seats, no windows, and a leaking roof, would a woman who refused to use one expect to be told "GET BACK IN THE WOMEN ONLY CARRIAGE YOU F****** IDIOT!"?

(Shouty text is deliberate)

As usual, people are perfectly happy to behave, on the road, in ways that they'd never dream of, in other everyday situations - which is kinda weird, if you think about it.

Use the all the time in Denmark because they have same priority as road along side so no worries a junctions and everyone respects them. Only issue on a fast road ride you have to contend with a lot of slow cyclists as so many Danes commute and shop by bike.
Here I never use them for all the reasons listed above.

If you want to check out the stretch it is in Southampton, I was heading north along rownhams road to north baddesley from bakers drove.  According to strava looks like my max speed along there was 30.9mph I go plenty quicker on the summer bike.  It is a short stretch of 50mph, maybe half a mile tops between 30mph limits.  The cycle path is fine if you are bimbling along on a mtb at a sedate pace, it is under tree cover and covered in slippy dangerous debris (as well as dog walkers, give ways and a bus stop) So I don't use it, plus I'd have to cross the main road to get on to it, and off of it.  The road is plenty wide enough for safe passing as every other  driver seems to manage.

if I was commuting in in rush hour, I probably would use the cycle path despite its condition  When I'm out for a 45min training ride at lunch time when roads are quiet I stick to the road.

if anyone else rides there regularly and gets abuse if it is a convertible metallic gold merc it is the same twonk.

Edit looks like it is a bit longer.  1.21miles

https://www.strava.com/segments/7216206?filter=overall

I was told off on Thursday in the Cowgate area of Newcastle by an old chap (I believe "awd gadgie" is the correct descriptor) for stopping my cycle on a red light at a pedestrian crossing. He seemed to think I was giving the area a bad name.

Or maybe if everyone used them they would build better ones and more of them due to demand.

Ahh, the old

Argument, how quaint*....

*(Read as 'Naive' ).

Isn't that the wrong way round?  Kevin's idea was build first, come later, not come first build later.

As it were.

You're right.

But it's still bobbins.

It's bobbins because it's the wrong way round - if you build the infrastructure (proper integrated infrastructure, not stupid shared use paths) then people will come, that's what studies show happens.

OP.. just smile and wave enthusiastically at him and shout back that you can't hear him.

Become immune to cockwomblery. Smile, ignore and don't let these eejits ruin another of your days.

I've not been up Rownhams Lane by bike ever as far as I can remember and it's been 6+ years since I was a passenger travelling along it, so I'm unfamiliar with the fine detail despite being quite local.

I don't go out of my way to use cycle lanes around central and eastern Southampton, in my experience most are not fit for purpose. About the only exceptions are the shared pedestrian/cycle path over Northam Bridge (which lost most of its shared path signs that were embedded into the pavement when the bridge lost its solid central barrier a few years back), which I use pretty much every time if briefly using the A3024 towards Bitterne (into town before 0700 I stick to the road), before I use Quayside; Chessel; Brownlow; White's before then using the shared path past Bitterne Leisure Centre (the underpass by it officially became shared use in the last few months, I've cycled it for years with caution).

I guess it comes down to three options, as regards verbal abuse...

Let it fly over your head, don't do anything rash and carry on your ride

Use the carp cycle lane(s)

Buy a camera or two, to record the abuse and then hand footage over to police

Use the all the time in Denmark because they have same priority as road along side so no worries a junctions and everyone respects them

Which is exactly how ours should be but the strange thing is although other countries have nailed the cycling infrastructure ours still seems to be unable to look at how it’s been  properly done and implement it here.

if I was commuting in in rush hour, I probably would use the cycle path despite its condition  When I’m out for a 45min training ride at lunch time when roads are quiet I stick to the road.

I find where I’m riding that rush hour actually slows the cars to around 20 mph and actually makes it safer as you can take a primary position (gasp) and be more car whereas when it’s quiet you’ll get a close pass at speed.

Its a tricky shout this riding a bike on the road thing there’s definately a knack to it but in reality it shouldn’t be this hard.

If it is just the one driver and the ride is a loop you do in your lunch time, could you not just reverse the route and avoid the numpty

Maybe beg / borrow/ steal a camera and report him once before changing, so at least it is bringing it to the attention of plod, but certainly not post it all over forums and twitter etc - all you need to do is bring it to their attention, not get involved in an interweb war.

Life's too short to get bogged down with 1 person annoying you.

Thing is, it is a little more than annoying.  someone pulling alongside you within arms reach when you are riding pretty quick and giving you verbal and looking at you rather than the road is dangerous.

I've ignored the first three times and only this time have I paid attention to the car and thought it is probably the same person.

I've ridden that stretch 55 times and had abuse 4 times now (over the last year).  compared to 0 times with the rest of the country....

I do vary the lunch time loops, but being in a city means whatever direction you ride you end up on a fast road for a stretch at some point.

Biggest problem: that such assholes are around.

Personally don't like these conflicts and avoid fighting these idiots. Ruins my whole day.

Personally I vacillate between thinking Dutch style segregated infrastructure is "the answer"  and believing that it would  just have the effect of validating all the angry motoring arses in their persistent belief that roads are for motorised transport only.

For me the response to Chief Constable Anthony Bangham's comments this week frames the whole issue of behaviour on British roads.

(warning; frothy mail click bait)

http://www.****/news/article-5348791/Police-chief-wants-drivers-film-law-breaking-motorists.html

For those not inclined to click, basically The DM have likened a police chief to the stasi for daring to suggest the police actually enforce the law...

God forbid twunts in Mondeos have to look at a speedometer,  dab the brakes or (gulp) wait till its safe to steer round a person out on a bicycle,  on their way to the next traffic light queue...

I can't help thinking everyone seemed to be getting along reasonably well on the road until about  20 odd years ago, something seemed to change in the late 90s/early 00s and and slowly the roads have become an increasingly tense, fraught environment...

Just shout at them back asking why they are not using the nearest motorway? After all motorways were built just for cars!

Btw, can’t believe some of the replies on here, do many of you actually even ride a bike??

The best step would be presumed liability as in most of the rest of europe.  We might get a bit more respect then

the next best thing would be only to allow cycle lanes to be built if designed by people who cycle regularly.  the final think would be to completely ban the stupid and useless painted on the road stuff.

Face it, they don't get it,  your just. In the way. I have been driven into for not using cycle lane. Even doing 40 in a 30 zone. You can't win. Now I no longer commute on a road bike. I use an old mtb so if I get in a situation just ride into the car and play dead. Or stay on the path plodding  through the cack.

I climbed out from under a punto and the dashdboard of a corsa. Police were not interested. Don't end up a smear on the road.

Joe Public simply doesn't understand the poor suitability of a lot of our cycling infrastructure. The Highways Authorities need taking to task.