[Closed] About MTB brands

I wouldn't get a Cube, personally.

Thanks for your opinion. Any reasons for that ?

Whereas I would.

You'll hear stories about all brands - and the more they sell, the more bad stories you will hear.

Nothing much wrong with any of those so consider whether you want to go down the online-only route or have the support of a good LBS.

Buy one that fits and you like the look of.

If local back up is important to you get the brand that a local shop sells.

Buy the one with the best forks and wheels you can, even if that means its 10 speed. You can make anything perfectly good shifting and a decent range with a 11-46 cassette or better, but you can't fix crap forks and heavy wheels. Well you can but you'd pay as much as the bike again probably. Ideally I'd want Sid forks and something really light and strong like DT XR1501 wheels for an XC 29er (if thats in your budget).

Read some reviews on the bikes, quality of the above brands is all generally fine, so geo and ride style will be more important than whose stickers are on it.

Totally agree with Ben above although I'd want something more burly than a SID.

But then, that's his point.

the only one i'd avoid is canyon, direct sales so little opportunity to try the bike, not the best reputation for after sales service. all the others have many high st representatives to try a bike at in real life.

There's not much difference at any price point, IMO.  How to choose:

- Which ones your local shops have

- Features (e.g. number of bottle cage mounts, rack mounts, ease of carrying on shoulder, tyre clearance, whatever is important to you)

- Future proofing e.g. boost,

- Fork quality

- Reputation for warranty support, although take that with a pinch of salt because people get pissed off that they trash their frame after 2 years and expect a new one to turn up pronto no questions asked.

- Ride them (at said local shops) and decide purely on that

I'd put Canyon near the top of the list, just because there's likely to be less cost-cutting on spec at given price points and OP is more likely to get the "decent fork and wheels" recommended above.

Got to know what you want from a bike though, really.

Read some reviews on the bikes, quality of the above brands is all generally fine, so geo and ride style will be more important than whose stickers are on it.

yes.

I’d put Canyon near the top of the list

Yes - they do a great Job right now. Don't have a Canyon - but like those bikes.

For me: hardtails - also XC hardtails need an excellent fork and enough travel. Wouldn't buy - for my style of biking - an hardtail with less than 120 mm travel. My good old 29 er XC hardtail has a 130 mm fork now. That's so much fun...

But you might be more the "XC race" biker opting for super low weight and 100 mm fork?

If so: maybe add also Radon to your list. The Radon Jealous is maybe comparable with the Canyon Exceed.

The Jealous also comes in an super low weight version (frame 850 g ?) - but don't remember is those are 27,5 or 29 bikes.

Think the Canyon Exceed Carbon has a fantastic price tag - the super low weight Jealous is more expensive.

@scotroutes

I forgot to mention I'll buy most likely from online shops, mainly because availability, but also better prices. So unfortunately no chance for prior testing.

@wwaswas

All models from my list should fit me, I checked the geometry. I don't particularly like the looks of them(regarding geometry), but that's because of the 21" frame size I need. My current bike(with its cracked frame, the reason I'm buying a new one) was a 27.5" 19.5" frame size. I loved the looks of it. I couldn't find the same geometry on the new bikes. Orbea and Kona had some similar looking, but those are either too expensive / have 27.5+ tires / don't have enough gear ratio.

@benpinnick

Thanks for your support again :).  My previous bike (cracked frame, the reason for replacement) had a XC30 120mm Solo Air fork. I believe that's considered a crappy fork here on the forum, but I was very pleased with it. Probably because the fork I had before that was a real crappy coil spring Suntor XCT. The bikes on my list have the following forks: 30 silver, recon silver, recon rl, judy silver, judy gold and 30 gold / reba rl on the Canyon bikes. All 100mm Solo Air.

Geometry is more or less the same on all bikes I believe. I'll take a look at wheels now, to be honest I overlooked these.

Test ride would be important for me.

Also a physical shop I trusted - both moreso than brand alone.

There's unlikey to be any bike that is significantly better or worse than the rest, despite what reviewers say - they get paid to make us buy bikes (their advertisers').

I had great service with my canyon of old, unlike some service I've had from local shops, and big UK distributors. Some LBS owners and workers will tell you any old shite about direct sales, or brands they don't sell.

'Cotic frames are always twisted' stands out as a particular favourite of mine, heard from a local shop owner.

@andreasrhoen
I couldn't find any 29" hardtail with 100mm+ fork travel in my price range. What's the bike you are talking about ?

I didn't mention my budget limit, since I was just comparing brands. It's maximum(I would also happily spend less) 1200 Euro.
My previous bike had a lovely geometry with a 120mm fork, but 27.5" wheels and 19.5" frame. Which is quite small for me, I'm 192cm tall.

This is my old bike:

So not the "XC Race" type. I'd love to get something with similar geometry and 120mm fork, but as mentioned in the reply above, I could find one.

The 2019 Canyon exceed 6 pro race is a very nice spec for the money.

As the owner of the 2018 Exceed i can confirm they ride brilliantly, are built well and Canyon are very good to deal with.

A bike frame is basically just some pipes welded together. Aluminium frames will mostly be contracted out to a handful of factories in Asia. The tube manipulation, welding, heat treating, etc seem to be well figured out now so I wouldn't worry too much about the longevity of any hardtail frame from a major manufacturer. Warranty is a different matter with buying online. If the retailer closes shop, you will probably have no recourse if anything goes wrong.

I would prioritize good forks, a dropper seatpost, good brakes, wheels, and then drivetrain. The difference between an entry level fork and a decent fork is huge, the functional difference between low-end Shimano drivetrain and XT is barely noticeable IME. If you have good components you can always put them on a different frame if your first choice turns out to be a mistake.

Thats a tough price bracket - there's alot of showroom speccing at that price - just enough to squeeze some XT on there, but not enough to drop that and put better forks etc. on.

Its worth noting that the 'Gold' versions of forks are usually considerably better spec than the other versions in terms of their build quality, so if any of the bikes have Gold forks thats definitely a bonus.

That price bracket, I'd hold on for CRC to bring out the 2019 Vitus Sentier hardtails.

The 2018 ones are sold out, but have a look to get an idea...

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-sentier-29-hardtail-bike-deore-1x10-2018/rp-prod159766

So not the “XC Race” type.

O.k.. Then an aluminium bike with a bit more "trail geo" and fork in the range of 120 ... 130 might be ideal.

I couldn’t find any 29″ hardtail with 100mm+ fork travel in my price range. What’s the bike you are talking about ?

Example, link from chakaping:

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/de/de/vitus-sentier-29-hardtail-mountainbike-deore-29-x-10-fach-2018/rp-prod159766

Other example:

The Voodoo Bizango gets a lot of love in this forum:

https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/mountain-bikes/voodoo-bizango-29er-mens-mountain-bike-16-18-20-22-frames

120 mm travel. This bike gets a lot of very good reviews.

Totally different beast, bike with 150 mm travel:

https://www.commencal-store.com/meta-ht-am-origin-2019-c2x26295105

You pay 1 k for this Commencal all mountain hardtail. But 27,5 - not 29er...

Commencal is a small / mid sized company. Very neat bikes. Geo is for downhill / rough stuff.

In my opinion lots of fun. My hardtail has 130 mm ... but those 150 mm - together with the geo -sound veeery good.

Geometry and bottom bracket standard along with the other parts of the bike that can be affected by using a good or bad standard would be part of my selection criteria. Would always prefer a threaded bottom bracket over press fit personally for example.

+1 canyon, awesome bikes, service and good bag for your £

As a random addition I did get the chance to have a spin on 4 canyons last weekend, OK I was passing through Koblenz but it was worthwhile just to know which one would fit...

As friendly and happy as any good lbs I've been I to too.

Thanks for the additional info. I'll go again trough my options and try to eliminate some more.. Andreas, those bike look really nice, but seem either not to fit me, or not have enough gear ratio.

This was a thread about brands, but since it turned into more than that, I'll list my many options:

• Orbea : Alma H50, Alma H30, Alma H30 Eagle, Alma H30 XT
• Mondraker: Chrono R
• Ghost: Kato 7.9 2018 and 2019,  9.9 2018
• Focus: Whistler 3.9
• Cannondale: Trail 2 and 3 , both 2018 and 2019
• Scott: Scale 960 2018 and 2019,  Scale 980
• Cube: Acid, Acid Eagle, Reaction Pro, Reaction Race, Race One
• Canyon: Grand Canyon 5 and 6
• Radon: ZR Team 8

have a spin on 4 canyons last weekend, OK I was passing through Koblenz

Great! I like that they do a lot of testing and their bikes look better and better...

@cpper

or not have enough gear ratio.

This is an very good point. In the Alps you see lots of E-bikes now and other bikers take the lift... I still pedal uphill and gear ratio is an important issue also for me as well. 2 x 10 or 2 x 11 is what I personally like...

Others: in January / February (!!!) the bike dealers go nuts. Some rebate stuff started already - but in February you can expect fantastic deals. That's the time of the year I try to buy lots of my bike stuff. Detail brakes: the Magura MT2 is on some lower cost bikes. The MT2 is rubbish. Had the MT2 for a short time and had only trouble (put a Deore on and all was fine).

Andreas, I think January/February might be too late. The shops I'm browsing on have deals on the 2018 bikes but many are already out of stock.

The only bike with Maguras from the list is the Radon. The rest have M300-M400 / MT200-500 Shimanos. I suppose those are also considered low end brakes, but on my old mike I had an M447 which worked fine for me.

those are also considered low end brakes, but on my old mike I had an M447 which worked fine for me.

Yes - those brakes are good. The "low end Shimanos" aren't bad at all.

I think January/February might be too late

Mmhh. Hard to predict.

Fun bike - more trail than XC:

Merida Big Trail

Had a test ride (Big Trail 800) in 2017 and was impressed. The price tag was too high for me at this time.

But:

I think the Merida Big Trail 600 (2018) version is available for a bit over 1 k.

The bike is a "Plus bike" and totally different from the bikes on your current list. Geo is more "trail" and fork 130 mm. And the fat tyres make a lot of sense on an hardtail (if you are not racing!).

Yep the Big Trail 600 is in my price range and has that nice geo. But it doesn't have enough gear ratio, and I'm also a bit hesitant about RST fork and Tektro brakes.

Also, I don't want plus tires, I think they would be a bit overkill and also slow me down on tarmac/climbs. Talking about the Trail geo, a company in my country makes this bike aggresive 27.5"+ :

The specs are very good for the 1200eur price mark, I believe: Here link

Cube or Cannondale.

Trev, I was looking exactly at Cube and Cannondale.I think I've narrowed it down to 3 bikes:

• Cannondale Trail 2 2018
• Cube Race ONE 2018
• Cube Reaction 2018

There are some geometry differences:

Apart from the differences in the drivetain,the Cannondale has a Judy Gold fork, the Cube Reaction Race a Judy Silver, and the Race One a Recon Silver. I'm not sure how much better the Judy Gold is, since it seems it has the TK damper, like the other two.
What about Judy Silver vs Recon Silver ?

If the retailer closes shop, you will probably have no recourse if anything goes wrong

If the retailer closes you just go to another retailer who is a dealer for the brand. that won't happen with canyon though as they don't have any.

Devron Bikes: new for me.

Great these new companies which start producing mountain bikes.

Below 1 k for the "Zerga" for example sounds really good. And personally I love the front mech - which this bike still has!

120 mm fork sounds fine. Personally would like a bit wider bar so. But that's a minor issue. The web site won't show me the geo. Stem looks a bit long. Personally would pick a shorter stem and maybe a size bigger frame...

There are three Zerga's:

Zerga 1.7 : 750 euro, RST Fork, 2x10 drivetrain

Zerga 2.7:  960 euro, Recon RL fork, 2x11 NX drivetrain

Zerga 3.7:  1180 euro, Recon RL fork, GX Eagle drivetrain

They all come in 4 frame sizes. Unfortunately no geo info. As said, I like this bikes, but won't get one because of the exaggerated geo and fatty tires.

What about my choices from the last post ? What would you choose ? Would the a bit more trail-oriented geo of the Cannondale make a very big difference ?

Also, if anyone is interested in the Zergas, there are some lower prices on some sites (romanian brand, romanian shops), and I except the prices to get even lower when the 2019 series come out.

My current bike, with its cracked frame is a 2015 Zerga D5.7. I was very happy with it, but am now not so sure about the frame quality. I didn't abuse the bike whatsoever, and the crack appeared out of nowhere.

Warranty is a different matter with buying online. If the retailer closes shop, you will probably have no recourse if anything goes wrong.

Just as well warranty is with with the manufacturer not the retailer.

I wouldn’t get a Cube, personally.

Based on a sample of one 🙂 .  Mate of mine had one, poorly finished frame, and lost of issues (was a full susser, though) and terrible spares availability.  Spent more time in the workshop than on the trail until he finally fixed it and sold it on without riding for fear of it breaking again.

Geo of the Cannondale: yes - very small differences might have a huge impact. But if better / worse depends onto the biker. His size, his riding style, the home trails.

O.k. when start talking about cracking frames... personally wouldn't buy a Cannondale based onto "cracking frame" experiences. One brand I stay away from.

Devron Zerga: "new", small brands might have to fight more "cracking issues". No money for testing, little money for quality control...

Cube: if you like to go that route maybe check bike-discount.de

Sometimes they have tons of cheap Cube frames. XC Aluminium frames sometimes starting from 99 Euros...

Totally different proposal:

https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/calibre-bossnut-v2-mountain-bike-p403001

Calibre Bossnut V2 for 899 GBP or shipping to Romania:

1015 Euros, shipping costs 12 Euros

And if you order from a foreign country you don't need the "Gooutdoors card" to get the low retail price!

This bike has a great gear ratio (2x10 Deore) and is a great design. I own one... Love it!

Downside: Calibre bikes has low pre-assembly quality. You have to spend quite some work (or the local LBS) to get everything into a proper shape.

Paint is soft like cheese.

And the RockShox Sektor fork quickly needs the "small service". RockShox quality issue - they barely put oil into the lowers. Put some PM600 grease onto the upper seals / foam ring and fork oil for 3 Euros into the lowers.

Fork is a blast now - before it was like a piece of wood....

Suspension bearing kits you get for little money from Gooutdoors - all others are standard parts.

Original tyres: front tyre is very good. Rear tyre easy to puncture..

But I bike with tubes "plus 100 ml sealant" in the tubes. I don't have any issues there.

Formula hubs are not great. Made service once and they still hold up. If they fail I order some low cost custom wheels from actionsports.de  - using DT 370 hubs.

In my opinion: best full suspension bike for 1 k?

And - of course - if you go too wild you will bend the WTB rims. But that's clear. The bike is a trail bike no Enduro!

Just as well warranty is with with the manufacturer not the retailer.

First port of call under UK Consumer Rights Act is with the retailer. Your contract is with them and your rights often trump the manufacturer warranty (though some manufacturer warranties provide extra bonuses, like lifetime frame / bearing warranties with some brands, but the retailer will sort it all out anyway). Approach the manufacturer direct if having problems with the retailer though. An issue with some manufacturers is they will only deal through approved dealers.

the only one i’d avoid is canyon, direct sales so little opportunity to try the bike, not the best reputation for after sales service. all the others have many high st representatives to try a bike at in real life.

If the retailer closes you just go to another retailer who is a dealer for the brand. that won’t happen with canyon though as they don’t have any.

I know a few who've had issues with Canyon in terms of after sales, though just being direct sales doesn't mean bad. Case point - Bird. Many of opportunities for demo despite their small size and direct sales approach. They've also just won best online service by readers of Singletrack by the way 😉

Canyon in terms of after sales, though just being direct sales doesn’t mean bad.

Canyon: great bikes.

They do a lot of testing and they try to do a lot of quality control (at those places in Asia which make the parts).

And of course - the world is not perfect...

Canyon, recent 2028 Spectral trail bike: had cracking issues on the rear suspension (aluminium). Most likely heat treatment issue of some welds. Problem was detected, batches of bikes identified and recall / replacement procedure started.

In other words - Canyon fixed it. For me Canyon bikes are fine. If they have issues they try to fix them.

Aluminium / Carbon: Carbon has much more quality problems. Every single step in the complex manufacturing process might go wrong - and all is done in some very "remote shops" which are hard to "control". The aircraft guys were fighting ages before they had proper procedures to use Carbon...

Cube hardtails are great,I have an extrememly lightweight ally bike,XT throughout and stepcast forks all for £1300.Not a bit of bother with it.The ally version is a little lighter than the exact bike in carbon so went for the ally version obviously.

Not all at Cube is "shiny" and "neat"...

One of my bikes is an aluminium Cube Stereo 150/150, 27.5+ bike. Bought the frame for silly money at bike-discount and put it together. Bike it with 35 mm inner rim and 2,6 inch rubber.

This bike is a blast. Had an "all mountain bike" in mind but use it now for downhill as well. Crazy bike. Goes downhill like on rails and like a 170/170 bike (with 2,3 inch rubber).

But for "ready assembled bikes"... Cube has some assembly quality issues and some of their designs are a bit weak. Like older Stereo 140 rear suspensions.

Hardtails, Cube: would go the "frame" route via bike-discount.de then. If you have older parts to swap and if you find a frame where the stuff fits ... cheapest route to get a bike. Wouldn't care if the frame was made for 100 mm fork.

If you have a 120 or 130 mm fork ... even more fun!

I have old parts to swap, the entire bike actually, since the frame is cracked, but wouldn't. I'd buy a new bike, which fits me better(geometry) and also consider it a small upgrade. After I buy the new one I'll also buy a 27.5" frame, swap the old parts and give the bike to my brother. He is 1.80m tall and currently has a S size Kross bike, with a Suntour fork which has some crazy play in the legs. My just serviced XC30 air would definitely make him happy.

Ogri, and others, a couple of members on a local forums suggest  that "the current Cube Reaction bikes are XC bikes with an long ago outdated geometry". Is this remotely true?

Cube Reaction bikes are XC bikes with an long ago outdated geometry

I'am no expert in XC geo.

XC geo didn't change a lot - or?

Very different from trail bikes, all mountain bikes and enduro bikes. These bikes really changed a lot over the recent years. And with those bikes Cube isn't following the "long and slack" route. And was sceptical as well. But my 150/150 27,5+ all mountain bike from Cube is an blast. Bought all the stuff for it last winter. All parts from winter sale... Complete bike with Fox fork and shock for 1,5 k ...!!!(but there was this crazy Fox winter sale last year. Fear this won't happen again.)

If you like to swap parts and give the bike with the new frame to your brother: in the case you get such an "blow out sales" Cube frame from bike-discount.de this would be the best deal ever. Cube XC frames starting from 99 Euros?

For your new, complete bike: a Canyon?

Wow, nice deals you got there. I'm also dreaming at a full suspension since 2010 when I got my first proper MTB, a Trek 3700. I remember I was happy it had the same colors as the Trek Session 8 from that year.

Regarding my new bike, after some more hours of research regarding geo, parts, availability and prices, I think I'm gonna go with the Trail 2. I believe the geo fits my riding style better. Also it's nice that it has threaded BB.

I'm a bit confused about the "Custom BOOST QR Formula" rear hub. I read it's some strange rarity. Hopefully I'll be able to find replacement parts if anything goes wrong.

Formula” rear hub

I have some Formula hubs on my Bossnut V2.

It's impossible to get spares for the Formula hubs. They only sell the stuff to OEMs.

The hubs are based on "cup and cone" designs like XT hubs. But quality is worse. No spares...

But if the deal is good I would still buy a bike with Formula hubs. Not too expensive to buy some replacement custom-wheels from actionsports.de with some DT370 hubs. In winter time they always have some rebates going...

Good luck!

I dont think brand maters so much once you are out of the carpark. I would go for the following in priority order

1. Best geometry / fit for what I want to use it for

2. Best fork

3. Best wheels

4. Best brakes

Anything else can be replaced / upgraded as it wears our or you break it or fancy a chage

I ended up buying the Cannondale. I got it for 950 euro, a fairly good price I believe. The store I got it from has a shop in the capital, some 180km away. Still better than ordering from Germany. Also they might have some partnership with a local LBS, so maybe in case of malfunction I could use the warranty at the LBS.

1. The geometry was the most "aggressive" from my long list of options. Longest wheelbase, smallest HA, longest reach. All this comparing frames of ~ same seat tube length. I know there are benefits as well as costs for having a long WB, but I believe I made the right choice.

2. Forks in my list were: 30 Silver, Recon Silver, Recon RL, Judy Silver, and Judy Gold on the Cannondale I got. It still has the TK damper, so not sure how much better, if any, it is than the others.

3. I read the wheel ain't the best thing on this bike.

4. Brakes are Shimnao MT500, which I believe is the same M447 I had on my old bike. Although low end brakes, I was pleased with them.

But brakes are very cheap and if any problems I believe I can get an upgrade.

Great!

950 Euros is fine.

All sounds great - and yes, the brakes are fine.

If the drivedrain is Shimano don't forget to re-torque the crank after the first rides. The Shimano crank bolts will loose prestress - re-tigthen after the first rides is important...

Have fun!