Was biblical for 40 mins on today's ride and everything was tested to the max....
Jacket - Endura MT500 ii. Was piss wet through. TBF, had it a while now and not reproofed but never was that waterproof I don't think
Gloves - 100% Hydromatics. Wet hands. TBF, didn't actually feel wet. Only really noticed when I took them off/put back on/at the end
Socks - Fox something or other. Wet on the inside because the liners are pretty much plastic bags.
Boots - Five ten Trailcross GTX. Outside of socks were wet, but I think this was only really after breaching really deep puddles and maybe came over the top.
The standout performer - Madison dungarees. Bits of damp here and there, but the outer skin took one hell of a beating and the only bits of me that felt really dry at the end were my arse and legs. They actually looked like they were repelling water for the whole ride. Not sure about breathability as it was a fairly steady (effort wise) ebike ride.
On this basis, I'm going to check out what jackets Madison do though
That’s a good test!
I’ve not really used conventional waterproofs much, I’ve mostly worn things like Buffalo, Paramo and other softshell or windproof laters since the ‘90s. But I notice a lot of people talking about waterproofs not being waterproof, especially now brands aren’t using such effective (but chemically nasty) water repellents.
So when you’ve said your MT500 was wet through, do you mean that the rain was coming through the fabric (or the seams) to do you mean that the outer face fabric had wetted out? (And that usually means it’s feel colder and stops breathing so then gets condensation on the inside which eventually wets out that layer).
This might seem like semantics, but I thought breathable waterproofs actually had to be waterproof, and will stay waterproof until the seams fail. They lose their water repellency (which is what keeps them breathing in the rain) but you can easily wash and reproof to get that back.
Am I making any sense?!
Am I making any sense?!
Yes totally, but pretty sure the water comes through it. It wets out fairly quickly and I'm pretty sure it's not just sweat inside.
I have a reasonably expensive RAB 'waterproof' that I've never worn on the bike, hasn't had much use in the rain, but 100% gets wet inside when it does rain.
All that said, I never felt uncomfortable and I'm pretty sure I faired much better on the ride than if it been wearing a softshell. Whilst I was definitely wet, I didn't feel that wet if that makes sense.
To Chiefgrooveguru - if you have a membrane waterproof, then what you say is true. I was out all day in the rain in a Goretex pro jaxjets thats 5 or 6 years old, never reproofed. The outer material was soaked, but its not leaking.
If you have a waterproof that relies only on a DWR treatnent, then after a few months it is effectively just a,windbreaker
Edit to paragraph one , should be true - but not all membranes are equal. The Endura is Pertex shield , which seems to rely much more on its,surface trestment than its membrane.
As mentioned, I'm keen to try the Madison DTE jacket which is presumably the same material as the dungarees.
Jacket looks decent, but the hood looks pretty useless for helmets, whereas the Endura hood is spot on
Mrsstu has one of those Madison jacket thanks to the STW Megasack last year.
Only ever wears it to walk to the brewery if it's pissing down.
Says it's far to hot for her to do any actual riding in.
I think I'm finally going to try some of these. I really didn't want to spend 200 quid on them.
Any comments about the sizing, or are they fairly accurate?
To be fair all the Fox stuff I've had heavily reduced in Go Outdoors is really good and it's had an absolute pasting in torrential rain a few times. I can't tell you the model names but whatever the bright orange jacket is and the basic no-frills trousers combined with Lidl waterproof socks. I survived an 8 hour non stop deluge and was mostly dry and toasty on the inside.
But I notice a lot of people talking about waterproofs not being waterproof, especially now brands aren’t using such effective (but chemically nasty) water repellents
I think you can still get waterproofs that are waterproof, I think the controversy is that while some jackets will both transfers moisture away from your body and keep the rain out, they cant do both things at the same time. The thing that drives me nuts about jackets is the storm flap design. I actually paid more for a jacket without a hood
This was a 20 minute walk in epic rain wearing my Endura mt 500 jacket. That was 2 years ago , have replaced it with another that’s been fine.
I guess they just give up.
The pit zips are the thing that keeps me coming back.
Those army goretex jackets are also brilliant at keeping you dry . Not very packable and you look like you are off to the flag shop.
Great post. I had a couple of rides last week where the waterproofness of my gear was severely tested. I had an old Altura Crossfire jacket, which didn’t do too badly, but definitely wetted out, and my jersey was damp in places.
Previously, I used to buy reasonably cheap jackets (the Altura was £60 in a sale about 20 years ago!), and wear/wash them as little as possible. Then, when they inevitably became un-waterproof (which usually took many years) I replaced them. However, I recently took a decision to finally try to get the hang of reproofing jackets. I can’t say im there yet, but I have reproofed a couple of my jackets so far. Since they weren’t cheap (Rab Kinetic), im hoping that my reproofing experiments will yield properly waterproofing which actually lasts.
One thing I’ve come to realise, as mentioned in the OP, is that staying warm/comfortable is probably more important than staying dry. When I’ve felt wet under a jacket recently, it’s the cold which has become the biggest problem. Whereas, under the Altura last week, I had a fleece layer, and I was really quite comfy despite definitely having some damp patches under the jacket.
Note: this sounds like im criticising the Altura Crossfire. But in reality, I’ve owned it at least 20 years and have never reproofed it (until after the soaking last week). It’s been superb for most of that time, and I was still comfy last week. So for £60, im incredibly pleased with that jacket. It’s really breathable too.
I used a Madison Roam for commuting in all weathers and it was great. My commute was quite short, 20 minutes or so, but I'd always be dry underneath even in biblical rain with no mudguards. My only complaint was it didn't have pit zips to dump heat.
Trousers, which I still have, are some Endura overtrousers from 15 years ago which could hold back a river. Not sure of the model.
Any comments about the sizing, or are they fairly accurate?
I'm a medium/large borderline in most things.
Think I have the medium long dungarees, I'll check when I get home. I'm 33" waist currently (33/34 leg) with a little bit of a belly. They are snug but not too snug. Wouldn't want them any smaller, but then not sure if want them any bigger either, so I guess that means they are about right.
I have only worn them on the ebike, they 'may' be on the warm side for normal riding
I've sung the praises of those dungarees before so I'll just come and add a +1 to that.
I'll wear them throughout winter, without a jacket if it's not actually raining. The best thing is they keep you clean. I'll wear shorts underneath, so when you get back home or to your car or whatever, you strip them off and you're good to go, no faffing about getting changed.
I'm 6'2 and fairly skinny. Wear 30" waist pants normally. I'm not 100% certain, I'm not at home to check, but I think I will have got the 30L option and they fit great.
I have the decathlon waterproof jacket, that's been pretty good, I think any dampness inside is actually my sweat tbh. I wore it through the 2 biblical ardrocks that happened in recent years and it remained waterproof throughout.
My previous altura jacket was also really good.
I also have a Madison Roam jacket. It’s really good on cold wet days. If it’s just mild and wet it doesn’t breath the best and can get a bit sweaty. Great for the money though.
Couple of my friends have the dungarees and their only complaint is the top half can get very sweaty across the belly, if worn under a jacket.
The dungarees when I got them last November. No idea why I have white socks on
“This was a 20 minute walk in epic rain wearing my Endura mt 500 jacket. That was 2 years ago , have replaced it with another that’s been fine.
I guess they just give up.”
Maybe the membrane or coating eventually gets cracks in it which leak? Looking at the wet patches maybe they’re from backpack straps and the inside elbow crease? I’m 99% certain that no conventional* waterproofs need the DWR to keep them waterproof (*ie not Paramo). However once the waterproof layer fails then the DWR becomes critical to their water resistance rather than the thing meant to keep them breakable.
Down here on the south coast it’s rarely cold enough to need full waterproofs - last Feb I did a night XC ride in a storm where I was full waterproofed from the knees up (Altura shorts and MT500 jacket) which was remarkably fun! I am now a total convert to over-helmet hoods - with the hood up on the Endura it both keeps the rain out and acts as a big air scoop to stop you overheating.
@theartistformerlyknownasSTR how many hours use do you think your MT500ii has had?
Couple of recent tests from me:
A pactimo torrent in bright blue. Excellent pockets on it, good non-yellow hi-viz and cut perfectly for road & gravel. Have had a couple of rides in the hoofing rain and been comfy underneath but it’s been cold enough that I haven’t given the breathability much of a workout.
A clever hood poncho for commuting: makes me look like such a dork th raindrops refuse to associate with me. It’s a bit of a faff to keep it in place when riding but it does mean I can get where I’m going without needing to get changed. The jury is still out on whether it’s better than faffing with waterproof trousers.
@theartistformerlyknownasSTR how many hours use do you think your MT500ii has had?
Possibly 20 hours tops. I'd say 5 of those in actual wet conditions. But it has had a lot of dirty rides
Maybe I'm being a bit harsh. I haven't looked after it in the slightest. Maybe I'm not 'piss wet through', but I am definitely wet on the inside and it feels wet. I might try a reproof. I actually really like the coat and would possibly even buy another. It's not junk, it's just not as waterproof as I'd like right now
If that’s the waterproofing failing then that’s hopeless! However, I’d hope that it’s actually the waterlogged outside (due to the DWR failing) causing a total loss of breathability and tons of condensation on the inside. Wash it with soap flakes and reproof it with TX Direct and see if it works properly.
7Mesh skypilot jacket ... Never leaks, super breathable, sized to enable this fat bimbler. Thoroughly recommended. Endura mt500 fully waterproof and freezing point trousers. Both do a good job of keeping water off. Shimano GE900-Gtx shoes good for keeping water out (old man winter boots if it gets colder than 0). Goretex gloves fine for keeping dry.
I've also got an MT500 II jacket and it also wets through pretty quickly. I won't buy another
“Maybe the membrane or coating eventually gets cracks in it which leak? Looking at the wet patches maybe they’re from backpack straps and the inside elbow crease?
it does look like that.
I’ve always wondered about the jackets that have stretch patches. How the hell does a membrane cope with that? ( they’re the ares that have failed on my ancient endura waterproof, plus shoulders and around neck.)
"I've also got an MT500 II jacket and it also wets through pretty quickly. I won't buy another"
Again, is it leaking or it the outer face wetting out because the (not very) DWR isn't working so and needs cleaning and/or reproofing?
We had fluorocarbon DWR on breathable waterproofs since the invention of Gore-Tex in the '70s. It's also the anti-stain stuff you'd get on carpets and upholstery. It's not very nice stuff because it lasts effectively forever (so it might wear off the outside of your waterproof but then it's on the ground, in the soil, in the water, in your food etc.
Most (all?) outdoor gear companies have now stopped using fluorocarbons and gone to biodegradable alternatives (like Nikwax having been selling for decades and that they use on their Paramo waterproofs). They don't work anywhere near as well so your waterproofs will need more frequent cleaning and reproofing to stop them wetting out. But wetting out doesn't mean they're not waterproof, it just stops them breathing.
TLDR - old waterproofs have excellent but poisonous Durable Water Repellency. New ones have "undurable" WR - but wetting out doesn't mean they've failed, they just need cleaning/reproofing.
Regarding my picture above. I wasn’t wearing a backpack at the time but the jacket mostly got used with one on my bike.
"I’ve always wondered about the jackets that have stretch patches. How the hell does a membrane cope with that? ( they’re the ares that have failed on my ancient endura waterproof, plus shoulders and around neck.) "
I guess it's stretchy stuff! PTFE plumbers tape is stretchy and IIRC Gore-Tex was invented by accident when PTFE tape was stretched so far that it became micro-porous.
But it's interesting to note that the most reliable waterproofs you can buy seems to be the heavyweight non-stretch three layer army Gore-Tex jackets.
I hardly ever wear waterproofs for MTBing - either a light softshell (double weave stretch unlined thing) or a windproof as my outer later and I have an emergency super-light roadie waterproof which gets worn maybe once a year. If it's really horrible then I've got the MT500 jacket but I only got that two years ago so I've been relying on the Pocket Rocket as my emergency waterproof for twelve years!
But when the weather is nasty I'm always wearing a polypropylene base layer (like a classic Helly Hansen or my fetish-wear Brynje mesh) which don't get wet like polyester or merino base layers.
Here's a depressing (but properly referenced) read on the DWR chemicals that we used for decades:
https://nikwax.com/en-us/environment/pfas/
I tried reproofing with Nixwax but it had minimal effect. I'll try the Endura spray and see if that's any better. The outer layer of the jacket absorbs water with no beading unlike a 7-8 year old Rohan walking jacket where water forms into beads and runs off the surface
"I tried reproofing with Nixwax but it had minimal effect."
It's a palaver but the Nikwax only sticks if the fabric is properly clean. So that means washing with a detergent strong enough to remove all the grease and oil and dirt and to strip out what's left of the proofing. Then washing with soap flakes or tech wash to remove any traces of detergent on the jacket (and in the machine). And then do the proofing stage.
I've had problems with two MT500 jackets delaminating. My buddy that I did the Great North Trail with had a fairly new (few months old, worn a couple of times) MT500 jacket which wetted through the first time that he used it, it was also bubbling and delaminating.
I've got a Gore Jacket and trousers. In terms of waterproofness they're night and day better than that Endura stuff, but then again, they're more expensive. I have had a few issues with a couple of press studs falling off on the trousers.
WRT shoes, I've had great results using waterproof socks with Five Ten Trailcross shoes. As the shoes are relatively lightweight, they don't retain water and dry out really quickly. I do have the Trailcross GTX too, for really filthy weather, but again I'd only wear them with waterproof socks.
Gloves, I use the Sealskinz MTB gloves, and they're great, however I do need to keep the cuffs covered by my jacket cuffs to stop water wicking up into them.
When it's really filthy, my Dirtsuit is amazing. Even if it does make me look like a telly tubby.
I recently tried the spray on stuff. After one attempt with Nikwax, I stopped using that stuff because of the smell of vinegar. But I’ve since used the Granger spray on, and so far, the DWR seems well reinvigorated. I tumble dry at a cool heat setting after spraying the Grangers onto a damp jacket.
Even just tumble drying seems to invigorate the DWR on some jackets (Rab).
Going on this review, just ordered the Madison Dungarees from Balfes Bikes for £99
They are £109 but £10 off voucher in top left corner of website.
Great price in my eyes
If you have a waterproof that relies only on a DWR treatnent, then after a few months it is effectively just a,windbreaker
I hate to point out the obvious, but if you have a 'waterproof that relies only on a DWR treatment' then you've been miss-sold something which isn't and never was a 'waterproof', it's a softshell or windproof with a DWR treatment - arguably unless it's Paramo, in which case it's sort of somewhere in the middle ground of weird voodoo technologies.
And then there's Gore's Windstopper/Infinium stuff which is sold as 'windproof' but uses a membrane which is functionally waterproof and mostly - bar a PU smear layer - the same as the one on Gore-Tex waterproof clothing. Seam-tape Windstopper / Infinium and it's effectively waterproof, at least to begin with.
The way round the failings of DWR treatments was the discontinued Gore-Tex ShakeDry or Columbia's OurDry Extreme, both of which use some sort of PU-based, non-absorbent outer layer which don't need a DWR. The Columbia stuff isn't the most breathable fabric ever, but it's still at the same sort of medium breathable level at the point where most conventional waterproof fabrics have wetted out and barely breathe at all.
DWRs used to be better than they are now, for sure, but they still failed eventually with regular use.
The problem with pretty much any waterproof on a bike unless you run cool and ride slowly is that you will rapidly overwhelm the breathability capabilities of the fabric anyway and get wet from the inside out. Faster if your DWR has failed already.
If you have a waterproof that relies only on a DWR treatnent, then after a few months it is effectively just a,windbreaker
I hate to point out the obvious, but if you have a 'waterproof that relies only on a DWR treatment' then you've been miss-sold something which isn't and never was a 'waterproof', it's a softshell or windproof with a DWR treatment - arguably unless it's Paramo, in which case it's sort of somewhere in the middle ground of weird voodoo technologies.
And then there's Gore's Windstopper/Infinium stuff which is sold as 'windproof' but uses a membrane which is functionally waterproof and mostly - bar a PU smear layer - the same as the one on Gore-Tex waterproof clothing. Seam-tape Windstopper / Infinium and it's effectively waterproof, at least to begin with.
The way round the failings of DWR treatments was the discontinued Gore-Tex ShakeDry or Columbia's OurDry Extreme, both of which use some sort of PU-based, non-absorbent outer layer which don't need a DWR. The Columbia stuff isn't the most breathable fabric ever, but it's still at the same sort of medium breathable level at the point where most conventional waterproof fabrics have wetted out and barely breathe at all.
DWRs used to be better than they are now, for sure, but they still failed eventually with regular use.
The problem with pretty much any waterproof on a bike unless you run cool and ride slowly is that you will rapidly overwhelm the breathability capabilities of the fabric anyway and get wet from the inside out. Faster if your DWR has failed already.
Absolutely spot on👍 @BadlyWiredDog and the Bib Trousers in this discussion are DWR so where does that leave us?😉
the Bib Trousers in this discussion are DWR so where does that leave us?
I'm seeing two versions of the Madison bibs - the ones I have are the DTE 3 layer waterproof fabric with a DWR coating and the ones most recently linked seem to be a 4 season bib with a waterproof and DWR 'panel'
“the Bib Trousers in this discussion are DWR so where does that leave us?
”
My best guess is that’s it’s twofold - the DWR is working better on the trousers so less condensation, and my other guess relates to a combination of where we sweat most (more on the torso than the limbs) and warm damp air moving upwards through the bibs as he pedals and then condensing within the jacket.
Some actual science!
TLDR: Sweat per unit area is about twice as much on your torso vs limbs when you’re young, rising to about triple in your sixties.
Interesting to note quite how much more we sweat on our backs than anywhere else. Is that because we travel forwards so our back is less well cooled by air movement? Explains why hip packs are so much nicer than back packs on a bike!
The MT500 jacket I had was spectacularly bad being waterproof. We were cycling in the hills near Ballater and got caught in very heavy rain when quite high. The jacket’s wet weather performance was similar to a tea bag leaving me very wet and getting cold. I would not risk wearing this jacket again and binned it as soon as I got home.
it was not a failure in the DWR coating or condensation it just leaked.
the Bib Trousers in this discussion are DWR so where does that leave us?
I'm seeing two versions of the Madison bibs - the ones I have are the DTE 3 layer waterproof fabric with a DWR coating and the ones most recently linked seem to be a 4 season bib with a waterproof and DWR 'panel'
Balls, I've ordered the wrong ones !!
IME no jacket breathes once it's been used for 6 months. Waste of money. For jackets I either go thickish 'n' waterproof with main front zip that isn't a pain to use (for venting). Or for short and/or less full-on rainy rides I go with a glorified windshell (Alpkit Gravitas) and pair it with warm base layer, and hope the windshell dries out a bit during the ride.
Best tip: take multiple spare gloves in ziplock bags. And for feet I haven't found anything better than Leatt Hydradri things with built-in overshoe upper.. things.
"IME no jacket breathes once it's been used for 6 months"
Have you ever done any testing on cleaning/reproofing solutions? It strikes me this would actually make for a really valuable article, in helping people get the most out of their gear and stopping people throwing away gear that could work well if looked after properly.
I go with a glorified windshell (Alpkit Gravitas) and pair it with warm base layer, and hope the windshell dries out a bit during the ride.
The Gravitas isn't a 'windshell', it's an ultra-lightweight waterproof. It also retails for £200, which would make it a stingingly expensive windproof.
My experience is that waterproofs that light - Berghaus does or did a similar one - 'feel' less protective because of the filmy fabric, but can still be waterproof. Not ideal for crashing, mind.
Fwiw, with the exception of Gorewear and 7Mesh, most mid-market brand's waterproof fabrics are a bit meh. I'd be pretty confident that a riding jacket made from, say, Gore-Tex Pro would still be waterproof after six months use, then again mountaineering jackets made from the stuff cost upwards of £500 and rising and most mountain bikers are going to pay anywhere near that.
Now I'm riding emtb I'm finding that I need new clobber, I no longer get any where near as hot & sweaty as I did riding analogue. I can still put effort in and get warm, but then I can regulate/cool down on a flatter mundane section. I used to be happy with damp & warm but I'm leaning more towards waterproof, warm & dry.
The only solution I can find is Columbia "Outdry Extreme" which is actually waterproof and repells water. It does not wet out and it does claim to breathe, in effect the "goretex" membrane (equivalent) is on the outside and no DWR. They sell a suitable jacket but the only trousers are for "fishing" not good for riding. The material is a bit rubbery but latest versions are now not shiny, so it would seem it's akin to a breathable "oilskin" better than a straight PVC material.
I've just picked up a Madison DTE 3 layer jacket and it kept me dry in sideways rain on Friday on Exmoor. I was walking rather than riding but I was very glad to be wearing it.
Think I have the medium long dungarees, I'll check when I get home. I'm 33" waist currently (33/34 leg) with a little bit of a belly. They are snug but not too snug.
Madison size chart:
I have the DTE Jacket in extra large and I'm normally large upper body and medium lower. Odd size chart as a 32 inch waist I'd call medium?
The only solution I can find is Columbia "Outdry Extreme" which is actually waterproof and repells water. It does not wet out and it does claim to breathe, in effect the "goretex" membrane (equivalent) is on the outside and no DWR. They sell a suitable jacket but the only trousers are for "fishing" not good for riding. The material is a bit rubbery but latest versions are now not shiny, so it would seem it's akin to a breathable "oilskin" better than a straight PVC material.
It works pretty much as advertised. It's not as breathable as the top-end fabrics, but water doesn't soak into the outer surface so it maintains that level of okay-ish breathability when those other fabrics are wetting out and keeping you damp, it's just kind of the same as it was to start with.
The other thing is that Columbia is kind of lower-mid market in US terms rather than high-end tech, so stuff like hoods and adjustment and cut are a little functional rather than flash and the last time I looked, they didn't do anything bike specific. Tbf one of the top finishers in the Spine Race a few years back, an Irish guy from memory, was sponsored by them and seemed happy with the kit in pretty rough conditions.
In an ideal world, Gore would produce some sort of updated, more robust version of ShakeDry with the same excellent breathability, but a lot more durability. I'm pretty sure it was canned because the membrane contained fluorochemicals and Gore is committed to eliminating PFAs in its fabrics, hence the new ePE membrane replacing the original ePTFE one in the latest Gore-Tex fabrics.
Madison size chart:
Interestingly that does not agree with the size table on the Balfe's site where the DWR tights were linked above, they list L as being for a 35-37.5" waist.
Annoyingly Biketart, who are in driving distance of me, had a pair of Large 3-layer waterproof ones in stock, I was going to try and go and try them on, but they're now changed to "In stock with supplier".
This is the size I ordered in the bibs. I'm 5'11", 32 waist, 33/34 leg as mentioned before and around 87kgs - see pic further up the page for how they fit me
Chiefgrooveguru - I've never found a reporoofer that worked!
MTBing.
UK.
Waterproof.
Breathable.
Pick two 😀
I'm too tight to buy an expensive waterproof and then liberally spray it with grit and clart. In the last few years I discovered that when it's really wet and cold I can get away with wearing my old Buffalo shirt. But for most rides a decent riding jersey and a windproof gilet does the job.
I think we have problem with our commitment to bike branded waterproof apparel. If you look at sites that provide outdoor clothing for bushcraft etc you will find much better quality items. They will often have reinforced seat pads which is handy for us being sat in the saddle and jackets etc tend to come with ample ventilation options and a good length that stops them riding up your back when hunched over.
Also gives you some clothing you can wear on dog walks and whatnot.
Chiefgrooveguru - I've never found a reporoofer that worked!
Do you mean “worked as well as the original proofing” or do you mean “worked at all”?
I don’t see how you can be reviewing breathable waterproofs in the magazine and suggesting they’re worth buying, but also stating that none of them breathe after six months of use. To me six months old is NEW! It feels similar to reviewing a bike where the shock’s damping fails after a year but it can’t be serviced so you have to buy a whole new shock if you want a spring (waterproofing) and damper (breathability) - and then saying that’s the case with all bikes…
Old style toxic factory-applied proofing works like magic - the chemicals repel water, dirt, oil, grease and more and are remarkable durable.
Eco (and human-friendly) reproofing only repels water so it gets contaminated much more quickly. You have to (correctly) wash them much more. You have to reproof more frequently too. That’s why I only wear waterproofs on a MTB when it’s so cold and wet I actually need a waterproof - a windproof or softshell over the right base layer(s) is a better solution most of the time.
Chiefgrooveguru - I've never found a reporoofer that worked!
Do you mean “worked as well as the original proofing” or do you mean “worked at all”?
I don’t see how you can be reviewing breathable waterproofs in the magazine and suggesting they’re worth buying, but also stating that none of them breathe after six months of use. To me six months old is NEW! It feels similar to reviewing a bike where the shock’s damping fails after a year but it can’t be serviced so you have to buy a whole new shock if you want a spring (waterproofing) and damper (breathability) - and then saying that’s the case with all bikes…
Old style toxic factory-applied proofing works like magic - the chemicals repel water, dirt, oil, grease and more and are remarkable durable.
Eco (and human-friendly) reproofing only repels water so it gets contaminated much more quickly. You have to (correctly) wash them much more. You have to reproof more frequently too. That’s why I only wear waterproofs on a MTB when it’s so cold and wet I actually need a waterproof - a windproof or softshell over the right base layer(s) is a better solution most of the time.
This ^
For riding round a trail centre, the woods for a few hours, etc I use light wind proofs if need be or a cheap/old vaguely waterproof cycling jacket. You get damp or even wet but it doesn’t matter as you are warm and also muddy and sweaty anyway.
For longer rides in the hills and bikepacking and touring, if I don’t just take the above approach, I use a Paramo smock. Yes it can be a bit hot in the summer but usually it is fine. It’s the only coat I can find that keeps me dry enough to get in a tent and wear the same top after riding and I have tried loads of jackets in the past and had given up on the idea I could stay dry.
I mentioned above that I’ve decided to have a change of heart, and really try to get on top of the reproofing thing. If I wear them when biking in properly filthy weather (which is not really a choice here in Belfast) then waterproofs need washed quite regularly. In my experience, no matter how expensive or cheap the jacket, that means the DWR will need to be revived.
so far, I’ve found that the spray on Grangers does work well. Im no longer really concerned with how long it lasts, since I’ve now accepted that his is something I will have to do reasonably often. My jackets are beading perfectly after the reproofing with Grangers.
Im still new at this, but tumble drying after spraying on the Grangers seems to be absolutely essential to getting the thing to work.
the madison bibs are epic.
bit hot for non-motor rides but then its a waterproof babygrow so its always going to be a bit warm! but they are not bonkers hot (i`m a sweaty bastard)
Not sure how long the waterproofing lasts and i got them ridiculously filthy last weekend so teh repellent finish (really - whats the point??) is almost certainly gone in 2 rides.
but they are comfey and kept my arse dry.
PS - - i`ve never managed to successfully reproof anything. Ive tried a range of proofers (even one for tents!!) and it just never works.