[Closed] A observational theory

Are you having ago at me there?

I've observed that the more inverted snobbery people display, the more likely they are to be unpleasant people to spend time with.

oh 😀

😉

AN!

[i]the more expensive the vehicle it comes out of is in direct proportion to the amount of time the bike isn’t actually ridden[/i]

You must have hung around the car park a long time to come up with that theory, you should have counted the tax discs whilst you were there.

People spending money on things they want shocka.

You had to sell your soul? Normally only costs me a bit of diesel and a pasty from the garage.

Tsk, trail centres, eh?

You must have hing around the car park a long time to come up with that theory.

Maybe he was counting tax discs.

Badly expressed and I disapprove of your bitterness, but it does seem logical, Jim. People who work hard have more money to spend on shiny things and less time to spend with the shiny things. People who live out of their 1985 Nissan probably have more time to ride their bike.

jam bo - Member
You had to sell your soul? Normally only costs me a bit of diesel and a pasty from the garage.
POSTED 7 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Parking charges these days innit!

Good point. £4.50 for a double espresso last time I ventured to Haldon.

Damn ... my obsession with tax discs is out in the open!

Inverted snobbery indeed?! .... but Jambo, a pasty? ... the food police are onto you!!

racist

Badly expressed and I disapprove of your bitterness, but it does seem logical, Jim. People who work hard have more money to spend on shiny things and less time to spend with the shiny things. People who live out of their 1985 Nissan probably have more time to ride their bike.

that's patent twaddle of almost the same pomposity and ignorance as the OP isn't it?

Its not just trail centres sit in the Woodbine Cafe in Hope for any length of time and you will see the same.
(Sadly during the course of my studies I too have transformed myself into a lardy ***. The moral is don't think about things too much)

Duh yunki.

Inverted snobbery indeed?! .... but Jambo, a pasty? ... the food police are onto you!!
POSTED 2 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Welcome to Devon...

Richie B ... thanks for your support!

Ignorant and pompous ... moi? Nah .... go read “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”

Maybe there's also an element to stages of life people are at? I am in my late 30's have a young family and a good job which I work hard at. Thus I have a nice car, a relatively expensive bike but limited 'me' time due to the aforementioned family and job.

The lack of time makes a local trail centre ideal as its an efficient way to get a ride in outside of family and work time.

Not everyone can bugger off into the wilds for the whole weekend even if they wanted to.

Jam bo ... don't pasties come from Cornawll

.... lights blue touch paper and stands back!!

What about people with cheap cars and expensive bikes, where do they fit into the OP's stereotype hierarchy.

I'd like to know how I'm perceived 🙂

My take on it is.

The amount of time you spend caring about what other people are riding = how much your are jealous.

What about people with cheap cars and expensive bikes, where do they fit into the OP's stereotype hierarchy.

I'd like to know how I'm perceived

I think i fall into that one with a Mk1 Ford Focus and a SC Nomad.

centralscrutinizer - Member
What about people with cheap cars and expensive bikes, where do they fit into the OP's stereotype hierarchy.
I'd like to know how I'm perceived

As a thief.

HTH

Ignorant and pompous ... moi? Nah .... go read “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”

Do I really have to..? Again..? I didn't enjoy it a great deal 25 years ago, I suppose I might now 😕

Cubist ... I totally get you. At least you ride!! It's the guys who bugger about the whole day pimping their bike in the car park that started my theory off.

Don't get me wrong, I drive a nice car (won't disclose for fear of abuse and ridicule :-)), but the other day I was down at Swinley, parked next to a guy fettling a very, very expensive bike. Went off for a ride around both the blue and red routes and came back to him still tinkering and posing around the car park on a spotlessly clean bike (so he obviously hadn’t been anywhere. Went for a cup of tea to return to see said bike been loaded back into car!!

I’ve seen similar. Llandegla being one of the best places to observe such behaviour. Mind you any centre with a large infra-structure is good, but go somewhere like Penmachno and it’s a different story ... just honest riders as there’s no audience there!!!

How are you assessing from seeing people's bikes and their cars how much they get ridden?

Are you correlating cleanliness/condition with use? Whenever I see a battered bike I don't think "wow, that person rides a lot", I think "wow, that person shouldn't have nice things".

hairylegs - Member
Don't get me wrong, I drive a nice car (won't disclose for fear of abuse and ridicule :-)), but the other day I was down at Swinley, parked next to a guy fettling a very, very expensive bike. Went off for a ride around both the blue and red routes and came back to him still tinkering and posing around the car park on a spotlessly clean bike (so he obviously hadn’t been anywhere. Went for a cup of tea to return to see said bike been loaded back into car!!

I call bull shit! Or his bike was broke.

If people want to buy nice bikes and not ride them, what's wrong with that? They're putting money into our sport and helping to keep trail centres going without causing any wear and tear.

Sounds like we should be thanking them.

I call bull shit! Or his bike was broke.

+1, either way not sure why it's your job to critique OP? Jealousy I assume.

Trail centre bingo is where it's really at.

Usual bingo card consists of a Yeti, Ibis Mojo, Orange 5, and the riders in fluoro pyjamas/potty helmets, etc.

It's all a bit of fun, at least everyone is out riding, and bike shops stock a plentiful supply of things to tempt the pennies out of our wallets.

but the other day I was down at Swinley, parked next to a guy fettling a very, very expensive bike. Went off for a ride around both the blue and red routes and came back to him still tinkering and posing around the car park on a spotlessly clean bike (so he obviously hadn’t been anywhere. Went for a cup of tea to return to see said bike been loaded back into car!!

Sure he wasn't fettling it before loading it into his car [i]after [/i]having been for a ride and cleaned it?

Or any number of other reasons he could have had to leave that you don't know about.

Anecdotal anecdote is anecdotal.

Yeah OP, you're a liar and a jealous.

I was out for a ride with a group of mostly unknowns and one of them stopped at every the top of every climb to adjust the air pressure in his shock. He also adjusted the pressure at the bottom of each descent. He complained a lot and blamed his suspension for his poor riding. I didn't notice how clean his bike was. Am i jealous, lying, both or neither?

He probably set off after you did, rode the red, then the blue and was cleaned up and ready to go home before you were even finished

The amount of time you spend caring about what other people are riding = how much your are jealous

nah .... you've got it all wrong.Don't do jealousy

What about people with cheap cars and expensive bikes, where do they fit into the OP's stereotype hierarchy

You're a rider ... with right priorities

I have decided

why? To make yourself feel better presumably.

nah .... you've got it all wrong.Don't do jealousy

And yet here is this thread...

njee20 - Member
How are you assessing from seeing people's bikes and their cars how much they get ridden?

Are you correlating cleanliness/condition with use? Whenever I see a battered bike I don't think "wow, that person rides a lot", I think "wow, that person shouldn't have nice things".

+1 - how do you know from your car park observations how often a bike gets ridden?

And how do you know how much it costs?
How would you be able to tell that my £3k carbon FSR started out life as an alloy FSR that I paid substantially less than RRP for, that subsequently got warrantied for the carbon version.....have had quite a few snide comments (probably from people like yourself) while riding about the cost of my bike.

And how would you know that my mate's £3k carbon Haibike was bought direct from Raleigh (he works for them) and so he paid a fraction of the RRP?

Here's another theory for you (also made up of course):-

Regardless of what bike they are riding or what car they turn up in, most riders are actually pretty shit - but have a good time

"Yeah OP, you're a liar and a jealous.
[i]"
ouch ... some people are just no fun. Looks like I've touched a few nerves here!!

Looks like I've touched a few nerves here!!

No, I think you've just made yourself look like a jealous **** - even though you insist you aren't

ha ha Moshimonster .... you say in jest, yet how true you are!!!

This was aimed at your theory not your second post!!

Let's drop the jealous idea ... you're missing the point

[i]Went off for a ride around both the blue and red routes and came back to him still tinkering and posing around the car park on a spotlessly clean bike (so he obviously hadn’t been anywhere. Went for a cup of tea to return to see said bike been loaded back into car!![/i]

So roughly speaking how long were you riding for and how long did you spend having a cuppa?

I'm guessing that you're suggesting this guy was standing in the car park for a few hours maybe?

[i]You're a rider ... with right priorities[/i]

Because you have a shit car and an expensive bike? But yet someone with an expensive car and bike doesn't? You judge people way too much.

[i]you're missing the point [/i] Which is what exactly?

you say in jest, yet how true you are!!!

What? Now you're just not making sense!

If you're a Swinley local perhaps we should go for a ride. I want to see how shit you are, so I can judge you in person.

njee 20 ... re-read the post!

.... I'm definitely shit, but at least I own up to it!!!

Let's drop the jealous idea ... you're missing the point

Okay, but remember that's how your post comes across. It really does smack of the green eyed monster.

But anyway about your theory - I say it's a load of complete and utter bollocks. My theory is definitely closer to the truth - kind of analogous to a motorsport open track day v professional racing. Who actually has the most fun?

njee 20 ... re-read the post now I've edited it to make sense!

FTFY

But anyway about your theory - I say it's a load of complete and utter bollocks. My theory is definitely closer to the truth - kind of analogous to a motorsport open track day v professional racing. Who actually has the most fun?

Why must there be a correlation between spend and enjoyment? 😕

I have a comparatively expensive bike, it's the latest in a line of comparatively expensive bikes, I enjoy riding them. Would I enjoy a cheaper bike any less? Yes, almost certainly. A quantifiable amount? No, but a cheaper bike would be heavier. As I can afford the expensive ones why wouldn't I?

I still don't get this 'guy in the car park at Swinley story'. So you went for a ride in the region of 14 miles, which probably took you around 2 hours, got back and they guy was still 'pimping his very, very expensive bike'.

What bike was it and what level of pimping took two hours?

I'm intrigued.

My most expensive bike only ever gets ridden at trail centres. On local trails and commuting it'd be totally wasted. I've got other bikes for that, at least one of which I ride almost every day.

I used to ride at Swinley quite a lot and all I saw was a load of people from all walks of life on all sorts of bikes having a good time. But there was always this one sad bloke sat in the carpark staring at everyone with an expensive car/bike combo 😉

Hairylegs - I'm all for a bit of inverted snobbery, it's good for moral and shows them that while they may [i]think[/i] that they're ahead, we're still actually winning.. but you've shot yourself in the foot here I think.. 😆

I must say Swinley does seem to have the most diverse range of bikes/riders I've ever seen, from proper BSOs to some very expensive bikes! It's great to see.

I’ve enjoyed the robust debate with you guys but as it’s POETS day am off for an extended commute home now so, I’m sorry, I’m going to have to leave you to your procrastinations.

In the meantime, I suggest you all read (or re-read) “Zen and The Art of Motor Cycle Maintenance” and you may understand the philosophical tenant of the original (albeit light-hearted) theory and not be distracted by debating whether or not I’m jealous or telling tall tales.

Enjoy your weekends!

now I'm the jealous one! Enjoy your ride while I type here with a broken toe 🙁

Edit: obviously I'm not actually typing with my broken toe.

Might limp to the garage later to have a look at my £4.5K mtb and £85K car though.

I suggest you all read (or re-read) “Zen and The Art of Motor Cycle Maintenance”

If we re-read it everytime somebody said that we'd be able to recite the flipping thing word for word by now 🙄

This, or similar posts to it have been done to death since year the year dot, get off your high horse, and go ride your bike, whatever it cost 🙂

[img] [/img]

In the meantime, I suggest you all read (or re-read) “Zen and The Art of Motor Cycle Maintenance” and you may understand the philosophical tenant of the original (albeit light-hearted) theory and not be distracted by debating whether or not I’m jealous or telling tall tales.

Isn't that verging on the Edinburgh Defence?

I have the same theory but about socks.

Whenever I see a battered bike I don't think "wow, that person rides a lot", I think "wow, that person shouldn't have nice things".

I see it and think to myself "they've got their priorities right".

But what's right or wrong ay?

I do find it ridiculous how grown men can have reason to be self-conscious whilst out riding, it's pretty sad that people are consistently being judgemental about one another over something as meaningless as riding bikes. This thread is a good reflection of that.

I don't get "treasuring" items either, it's a bike, as long as it works as it's supposed to, i'm happy. But then my definition of working as it should is faultlessly, but generally when you get a bike to a faultless state it takes naff all effort to keep it there. A bike can look tatty but be in perfect working condition, it's one thing cleaning and polishing, a whole other thing it being mechanically perfect.

Off all the immaculate bikes i've worked on, they've hardly ever been mechanically perfect, just cleaned within an inch of their life.

I do find it ridiculous how grown men can have reason to be self-conscious whilst out riding

I agree, and yet how many people wear baggies, rather than lycra?

[i]I don't get "treasuring" items either, it's a bike, as long as it works as it's supposed to, i'm happy.[/i]

I'm like that with my commute, looks like shit, works well(ish) but I keep my best road bike very tidy. So depends on the bike for me.

agree, and yet how many people wear baggies, rather than lycra?

So people can ride whatever bike they feel most comfortable with, are free to drive whichever car they desire but shorts. That's different altogether.

[i]I agree, and yet how many people wear baggies, rather than lycra? [/i]

They're self conscious because the majority are [s]fat bastards[/s] a bit overweight.

I go to trail centres maybe once or twice a year. I never see these mythical "ATGNI" riders. I generally see, blokes, kids, wives, boyfriends and girlfriends, on shoppers, Halfords BSOs, lovely shiny top shelf kit, and generally see people having a great time.

Must be doing it wrong

So people can ride whatever bike they feel most comfortable with, are free to drive whichever car they desire but shorts. That's different altogether.

Eh? I don't give a shit what people wear (I rode in baggies once, I hated it), I was merely countering Dean's point that most people won't wear lycra on a bike because of how they look.

Can't see owt in deans post that mentions lycra (edit maybe?). Just seemed an instant reversal on your part. CBA reading page one again if it's there so if it is I apologise.

Can't see owt in deans post that mentions lycra (edit maybe?).

Nope, he just said what I quoted:

I do find it ridiculous how grown men can have reason to be self-conscious whilst out riding

I've no idea if he's ever made comments about lycra, it was a general one that a lot of people [i]do [/i]make comments about it, I was just pointing out that whilst I agree with him, a lot of people don't actually subscribe to that.

hairylegs - Member
I suggest you all read (or re-read) “Zen and The Art of Motor Cycle Maintenance” and you may understand the philosophical tenant of the original (albeit light-hearted) theory

I don't think the lycra v baggies argument is quite the same though. A middle-aged fat balding IT consultant wearing lycra is going to look like a dick to everyone else whether they care or not. That's why they don't do it. Nobody really wants to look like a dick except possibly for skiers you occasionally see wearing jesters hats.

I go to trail centres maybe once or twice a year. I never see these mythical "ATGNI" riders. I generally see, blokes, kids, wives, boyfriends and girlfriends, on shoppers, Halfords BSOs, lovely shiny top shelf kit, and generally see people having a great time.

That's because you see the reality of the situation rather than something made up just to make you feel better about yourself.

Njee - read it wrong-ish so apologies but still a bit presumptuous on your part to assume that everyone would be happier in lycra if only they could get over themselves.

Hang on, can we rewind a moment as I'm still stuck on the point of rereading 'Zen and The Art of Motor Cycle Maintenance'.

Why the hell would I want to reread that interminable guff? I thought it was dire trudgery first time round; why would anyone want to read it twice?

I don't think the lycra v baggies argument is quite the same though. A middle-aged fat balding IT consultant [s]wearing lycra[/s] wearing cycling kit is going to look like a dick to everyone else whether they care or not.

FTFY. The public think we all look ****ing stupid irrespective of what we wear.

Njee - read it wrong-ish so apologies but still a bit presumptuous on your part to assume that everyone would be happier in lycra if only they could get over themselves

A bit of a leap of faith there, I've not said that, but the usual defence (as exhibited beautifully by Moshimonster) is that people don't wear lycra because they look silly.

scotroutes - Member
what is a philosophical tenant anyway?

I've got that Bertrand Russell in the back room. 40 quid a week keeps me in tyres.

I wear lycra most of the time (on my road bike and on my MTB), I also sometimes wear baggies for rides where I'm more likely to end up sliding around on my arse or other bits of me.

I look just as silly either way.

I have no idea what any of this has to do with Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. Aside from a loose link to Pirsigs companions attitudes to their bikes, but that seems to be a quite different idea to the old nicer bike equals more car park time topic. Or just an intro to the main idea the books get at.

Love the way that Car As Status Symbol is so ingrained that it's impossible to see someone's mocking of posh cars as anything other than inverse snobbery and the one doing the mocking would buy a posh car themselves if only they could afford it.

And another thing...
I don't even like riding a bike. I only do it because it gives me an excuse to wear lycra in public.

I usually come in a tranny! Where does that put me 😉

The phrase "[i]I usually come in a tranny[/i]" could be taken in two different ways, particularly in a thread about both vehicles and men in lycra. 😉