You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Coming into law today is a piece of legislation requiring drone and model aircraft operators to pass a competency test and apply for an operators ID which must be displayed on all aircraft, i.e. a registration number. This will have to be renewed annually for a small fee.
Now people have been flying model planes and gliders for decades and like us mountain bikers are a fairly sensible bunch enjoying getting out into nature. I personally got into flying model gliders on hills in the South Downs this year and it's a lovely thing to do (combines well with a bike ride too).
I've no doubt that this new legislation has come about due to the growth of drone use. Indeed 90% of the test questions related specifically to drone usage and all the questions were posed with the word drone not model aircraft in the question. Drones are readily available and can be flown by any muppet. Hours of building and learning to fly are not required. Hence drones have now been deemed a hazard by the CAA and model aircraft have been lumped into this.
When I saw this legislation I could immediately see parallels with the use of e-bikes. We've done all the arguments to death on here so won't bother spell them out. I've personally now met enough e-bikers out in the wild to agree that they help bring people of different abilities together and that's nice. However I thought I'd post this to the people who think e-bikes, and more significantly de-restricted e-bikes won't affect everyone. It may well give those in power the opportunity to restrict our use more than we care to think. So before you blithely de-limit your bike, please have a little think about it for the 'analogue' crew's sake.
I've pondered whether to post this for ages as I don't enjoy the inevitable insults that will follow. I used to hate e-bikes with a passion and still don't like them as a concept for recreational mtb's but like I said earlier I've met enough nice enough folk out in the wild to realise that it's not a black and white argument. I do however worry about the effect e-bikes will have on all our rights. Democracy seems to be going out of the window these days. I just don't want my quiet, lovely sport to be regulated until it's no fun anymore.
Interesting take, but if it was going to happen it have would have already I think
To expand, drones enabled the attacks on that Saudi oil field, taking out 5% of the world's oil production, albeit for a short while. Bikes can't do that. We're not the same sort of potential threat
I reckon it'll happen right after the first goon on a derestricted ebike knocks someone down and kills them, despite the law being set up in such a way as to be able prosecute said goon exactly as if they were riding a moped, for that is what a derestricted ebike is classed as.
Will it stop goons being goons? No.
Will it bugger things up for the sensible users of bicycles/ebicycles? Yes.
hysterical nonsense. There is no parallel, no country in the world has ever produced a workable licensing sytem for bicyclers, ebikes are an internationally recognised standard, there is law in place to deal with goons who derestrict them.
hysterical nonsense. There is no parallel, no country in the world has ever produced a workable licensing sytem for bicyclers, ebikes are an internationally recognised standard, there is law in place to deal with goons who derestrict them.
This.
You can't exactly chuck an e-bike at an aeroplane and shut down one of Britain's busiest airports for a day, can you?
Riding a de-restricted e-bike that's not registered, licensed and insured is already illegal. Just like the 'number plates for bikes' thing that pops its head up every few years, it'll never happen.
Erm...
No.
HTHs
Good post OP, I too worry that the blunt hammer of legislation will cause collateral damage to analog bikers.
Christ. Does the OP write for the Daily Mail?
Drones cause worry due to how easily they are to buy and how easy they are to use for illegal activities, whereas an ebike is a bike with an engine, not many issues to the security services or lawmakers to worry about with them.
I don't think this is purely due to activists disrupting airports. I mean what kind of an idiot would write their registration number on a drone used for this purpose? It's likely more due to the massive increase of use of drones in public spaces. Most of the questions were about proximity to people/buildings and footage taken on cameras.
I agree that no-one has used a bike for major terror attacks but simple little things like proximity to other land users with a vehicle that's perceived as dangerous could become a reason for certain groups of people to have their way. I fear that e-bikes could tip the balance against us.
I see more and more people on bikes commuting up the hills of Brighton, even through the winter - thanks to having electric assistance.
I understand your concern but all the laws regarding motorbikes don’t stop illegal use of them off-road.
Christ. Does the OP write for the Daily Mail?
Not yet, needs to work on the casual racism and hatred for immigrants before getting accepted as a Mail writer but close apart from that.
Leave it out would you?
People who do not ride will not know if the bike that scared them is an ebike or not
In Belgium fast ebikes need a license plate. An e bike is considered fast if it can reach speeds of 45km/hour.
Rules are kinda the same as for mopeds. Government is still trying to figure out if they want them on the bike lane or on the road.
Use of these fast ebikes for commuting has exploded, i see up to 40 on my 45 km commute nowadays. Used to be a few a day last year. Mind this is on a busy bikecommuter highway.
E mtbikes are not regulated, this might change in the future but i think that as long as its obvious that an emtb is being used for sport and not transport that it would be exempt from the rules, kinda like a roadbike used for sport does not need to have reflectors and lights...
An interesting post OP. I doubt it will play out as you suggest, but if an ebiker does kill or seriously injure someone, I wouldn't rule out a knee jerk piece of legislation going further than is needed, in a similar way to the post yesterday about intentional trespass.
As for the tone of some of the responses so far, I'm disappointed,even by the recent piss poor standards of this place.
an ebike is a bike with an engine, not many issues to the security services or lawmakers to worry about with them.
The Viet Cong defeated the French and then the Americans with the help of bicycles. Makes you think doesn't it.
Er. Someone already has knocked over and killed someone while riding an allegedly derestricted e-bike....
Lol you should write for the daily mail.
I think your hate for ebikes is clouding any sensible judgement, why would you hate something that you don’t use ?
Nearly everyone I know with an ebike has a normal bike as well so they aren’t new users at all. Personally I now can’t use a normal bike...but blah blah blah I started to give a shit what others think I apologise for that, carry on as you were 👍
When I saw this legislation I could immediately see parallels with the use of e-bikes.
Utter ****ing shite of the highest order, well done..
As for the tone of some of the responses so far, I’m disappointed,even by the recent piss poor standards of this place.
I had all this yesterday. Within 20 posts we have people fabricating the op when it’s still there for all to see. Personally I think RD has a point. The problem isn’t e bikes per se, it’s the users that will exaggerate thier use and the numpties that will jump to legislate against it with little thought. It’ll need a sensible person to make a sensible decision.
kinda like a roadbike used for sport does not need to have reflectors and lights…
In this country they still need to comply with construction and use regs. Few do, but there's a risk associated with that of contributory negligence, if something goes wrong.
Not sure why either the op or the general tone of the thread is being slated? Seems quite sensible for the most part.
Riding a ebike doesn't make you a dick but it enables dick on bikes to be more of a dick and it allows dicks who otherwise would not get on bikes to be dicks on bikes. Dick enablers.
I reckon it’ll happen right after the first goon on a derestricted ebike knocks someone down and kills them
So. August 2018 then ?
Nice prediction. Bit off the mark though.
God this place has really attracted some arseholes these days. Every thread is brought down by them.
As to the OP: Yes, I suspect that when you reduce barriers to entry to an area that was previously slightly more difficult to access due to fitness, skill etc then you run the risk of things rising above the parapet and attracting more attention. MTB has been on this trajectory for a while though but with the advent of ebikes things have been accelerated(no pun,,,etc). My unit is on an industrial estate and I've had bikes hanging off my car for years whilst parked there plus spun them round the car park hundreds of times whilst fixing them, putting new stuff on etc. Same with my colleague. None of the yobs who work in the other units have ever shown the slightest interest. Suddenly several of them have got emtbs. So we chat to them and guess what - derestricted, footpaths, interest in the proper e-motorbikes but on the downs etc etc They really don't give a toss - the jetski crowd basically. So whilst we talk in endless threads about how emtbs get people out and commuting and all the good things that e-bikes bring, the reality is that they appeal to tossers in the same way that drones do. So good post and we will end up with increased regs - whether it works and whether analogue bikers are caught up in it is a moot point but I for one won't be taking any notice of any regulation that was clearly brought in off the back of ebike increases but catches me.
I just don’t want my quiet, lovely sport to be regulated until it’s no fun anymore.
Worst I can see happening is licenses and insurance for (current legal) e-bikes. There are moves (in EU, Motor Insurance Directive, but could still apply to UK sales after brexit) toward compulsory 3rd party insurance for e-bikes but from what I've read, it seems those involved with the discussions are confident it won't happen.
Part of this topic has been about reducing how easy it is to tamper with e-bikes, to de-restrict them. The European Commission thinks it needs addressing and you can expect the industry to take it seriously, since the EC bringing in further type-approval needs will complicate development or add costs and compulsory insurance will damage sales. Commercial pressure via regulators with clout tends fix things like this. The legal distinction between bikes/250W e-bikes and derestricted e-bikes/mopeds/motorbikes etc covers the rest when it comes to misuse.
I’d imagine that they want to license drone use because of all the disruption drones have caused at British airports. This may have already been mentioned. I don’t think ebikes are that much of a nuisance.
Given how around 60% of my local riding is technically illegal and no one is remotely bothered I'll carry on riding my normal bikes and my ebike over exactly the same routes I've been riding since 1986.
Feel free to form whatever kind of paranoid long winded rules you want though.
I'll start worrying when people get arrested on a regular basis for riding motorbikes in very sensitive areas.
God this place has really attracted some arseholes these days.
Couldn't agree more.
Please feel free to stop posting. 😉
Some good points about E Bike restricting access. That is my only worry about the increasing popularity of the E Bike.
But apart from that, I can't understand what the hate about E Bikes is all about. On some types of MTB ride (Big solo hilly rides with loads of climbing and massive hills) they are so much faster and more fun than a normal bike, can make the difference between spending most of the ride being happy or miserable.
*Troll Mode ‘on’*
I reckon the hatred is jealousy from people who can’t afford an ebike.
*Troll Mode ‘off’*
I genuinely don’t get the hatred either, literally nobody IRL is like this, it’s only online.
The key point that shows how false this conjecture is is that no non biker will recognise its an ebike.
In my experience is numpties riding paths in the hills at race speed that gives pressure to restrict access. ie is numpties thats the problem not ebikes. Ebikes are no faster downhill and its downhill thats the issue when you go flying round blind corners and scatter groups of walkers. Its numpties who are too vain to have mudguards on their bikes so they ride round puddles widening paths, its numpties who ride on soft and damaged ground churning it up. Its numpties who do not give way to walkers.
its numpties that are the issue.
Like what martymac?
EDIT
Other than the original post where the op states that he used to hate emtb's then he met a few riders and now he just doesn't like them as recreational vehicles, there are literally no posts on this thread stating that anyone hates ebikes
Always it comes down to this. Somebody states that they are not a massive fan of emtbs or that they personally wouln't buy one or that they can see potential downsides of their existence and suddenly they are a 'hater' wtf is that all about? Its called balance, shades or grey whatever. e-bikes are clearly a huge gamechanger and with that comes loads of consequences. Some good, some bad.
As for the jealousy about who can and can't afford one.........really just have a word with yourself.
This isn't necessarily binary.
I have no problem with ebikes but it is still possible to be concerned about any access rights that might change due to their increasing popularity. Whether the basis for change is right or wrong.
I really hope I and others worried about this are wrong but I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if laws and access do change for the worse.
Sorry, i should have made it clear for you, my post was in response to grannyjone (one post above mine) where he said he didn’t understand what the hate about Ebikes is all about.
As for the comment about jealousy, I don’t think I could make it any clearer that i was taking the piss ffs.
I think you’re the one that needs to have a word with yourself, it’s hardly my fault that you’ve had a sense of humour bypass.
paranoid nonsense from the op.
People have concerns about all sorts of stuff and people are also paranoid about all sorts of stuff.
I can't see ebikes making any difference as they are just bikes. They are no better or worse than any other bike. If government wan to restrict use of bikes then they will and it will be nothing to do with being using derestricted ebikes.
Just carry on riding and stop worrying about stuff that is just in your head
The Viet Cong defeated the French and then the Americans with the help of bicycles. Makes you think doesn’t it.
If they'd had e-bikes it would have happened more quickly? Which sounds convincing until you consider the parlous state of charging infrastructure along the Ho Chi Minh trail. Of course you could solve some of those issues with larger capacity batteries, but that in turn would bring other factors into play - larger, heavier bikes, the need to buy loads of cheap batteries on amazon etc. I don't think it's a cut and dried argument tbh, but that's counter-factual history for you.
In my experience is numpties riding paths in the hills at race speed that gives pressure to restrict access. ie is numpties thats the problem not ebikes
And as I and other have said it's the fact that ebikes are bumpy enablers that's the problem. More numpties being even more of numpty-ish, and as you say people will not recognize the difference if it's an ebike or normal bike, but it's more numpties being more numpty-ish.
I do however worry about the effect e-bikes will have on all our rights
I don't think in all the time I've been mountain biking (close to 30 years, bloody hell) there hasn't been some-one suggesting a "sky-falling-in" existential threat to the sport. Whether it's land access rights (which haven't changed in the UK in all the years people have been worried about various restrictions) to now e-bikes. It's the same in climbing and kayaking circles. I don't know if you've noticed, but mountain biking is no longer an insurgent sport, we are part of the mainstream of outdoor recreation now, and there is no significant threat to it. I don't think there's much legislative appetite for "tackling" an issue that affects almost no-one in a draconian way that would affect the livelihood and recreation of thousands
Interesting point.
But how would it be policed?
Just like the drones the 'sensible law abiding' folk will register them - the 'dicks' won't - nothing stopping them picking one up on eBay or faceache market place and flying them like a dick.
E-bikes on trails can't be policed just like the knobs on dirt bikes that regularly bugger up the local trails.
Best thing about this thread is the self-referential title.
I think the problem is that the OP does have a point. It's maybe tenuous to compare RC aircraft to E-Bikes but the logical leap isn't that great.
New technologies have made a subset of something that wasn't as popular, more popular and with it brought some additional risks. The response has affected a group who were, hitherto, not considered to be a "problem" and managed to conduct their activities without the need for additional regulation or intervention by the authorities.
Most of the public can't/won't notice or will barely be able to differentiate between analogue/E-bike/de-restricted E-Bikes and so heavy handed, blanket regulations and restrictions that affect all "two wheeled things with pedals" (especially given our current social/political climate) are a possibility.
Despite all the nasty (and sadly predictable) hyperbolic responses calling the OP "paranoid" and "jealous" he made a balanced post and certainly wasn't calling for an end to E-Bikes.
But if you can't see them as a potential catalyst for those that govern us to invent some new rules and revenue streams then clearly we live in different dimensions...
I’d imagine that they want to license drone use because of all the disruption drones have caused at British airports.
Who are "they" ?
They is someone, somewhere see's an opportunity to make money.
If the opportunity is big enough to pay MP's and write a narrative for them it will be pushed.
Luckily there's still plenty of people (like everyone I work with for example) who think mountain biking is boring, cycling is for losers etc. Who think £300 is a bit too much to pay for a bike.
cookea - I simply do not see any pint thew OP is making that has any =validity. Maybe because I live in Scotland but even in england over the last decade there have been movements to improve access not reduce it
I'll accept that living in the more densely populated (perhaps in both senses) SE, I probably see a different picture to you TJ.
Sad to say this is home turf for both DM readers and the elected arses that jump to attention when DM readers are displeased...
Like it or not two wheeled things with pedals are on DM readers shit list, So the motorised version are an ideal opportunity to apply some rushed through blanket rules to keep the old duffers in Kent, Surrey and Buck's on side without really considering the consequences...
And if there is one thing we don't do in the UK these days, it's 'consider the consequences'...
We live in an unprecedented age, our infallible government deciding to regulate all bicycles because a few deliveroo-ists turned their BSO's into twist 'n' go death chariots, isn't the craziest notion I've heard lately...
cookea - where I live - Edinburgh - we have some hills right on the edge of the city. Huge usage by both mtbers and walkers. Not a hint of anti ebike noise. almost no bike / walker conflict
As non bikers cannot differentiate then I do not see how ebikes contribute to anti bike feeling.
Then let's agree to disagree before we go any further into the Spiral of disagreeable nonsense that is an STW E-bike related thread...
cool
Think you’ll be OK. Air authorities would normally only begin showing an interest at over 400ft. However, I could possibly foresee a multi-hobby STWer arguing with himself over the plausible conflict between his high-flying MTB and his low-flying glider 😀
our infallible government deciding to regulate all bicycles because a few deliveroo-ists turned their BSO’s into twist ‘n’ go death chariots, isn’t the craziest notion I’ve heard lately…
I really don't see this getting past DM front page frothing and it'd have to be a really quiet week. Since licensing or registration of regular bikes is unworkable, the worst likely to happen is compulsory 3rd party insurance for e-bikers (and there'd be a sound argument against that applying to the current 250W / 25kph type since they're already 'a bike' tfh no compulsory insurance needs). The laws on moped/motorbikes already cover any action the police might want to take on derestricted e-bikes.
It's not impossible to see how compulsory insurance for all road users could come in to cover normal bikes, but like helmet laws, there's a lot of good arguments against it based on lowering use or barriers to use. Kids riding to school, insurance? Not very practical.
cookea – I simply do not see any pint thew OP is making that has any =validity. Maybe because I live in Scotland but even in england over the last decade there have been movements to improve access not reduce it
Remember when Cd player's were going to crash airplanes? People using tablets in hospital were going to shut down all the life support machines? Using a mobile phone in a service station next to a device specifically designed to ignite petrol vapour was going to blow up the area ??
None needed a proper reason to ban, more they didn't have a reason not to ban.
Once they worked out how to make money from them the bans magically disappeared.
New technologies have made a subset of something that wasn’t as popular, more popular and with it brought some additional risks. The response has affected a group who were, hitherto, not considered to be a “problem” and managed to conduct their activities without the need for additional regulation or intervention by the authorities.
According to this graph showing cycling from 1993 to 2018 graph
It has actually dropped down since peak in 2014. So what are you basing your "more popular" on and how does that relate to ebikes ? (not many people had them in 2014)
blanket regulations and restrictions that affect all “two wheeled things with pedals" [...] are a possibility.
No they aren't. It wouldn't get pass the lightest scrutiny. Besides, there isn't the capacity to enforce it, and there simply isn't the will to impose it, as we've seen in both Wales and Scotland the direction of travel in this country (no pun intended) is broader access rights not narrower
there simply isn’t the will to impose it, as we’ve seen in both Wales and Scotland the direction of travel in this country (no pun intended) is broader access rights not narrower
Certainly broader for Scotland and Wales... though broader rights often comes with the price of increased legislation.
It wouldn’t get pass the lightest scrutiny.
2-3 years ago some legislation made it through the commons that amongst many things gave a PSCO the right to give a child an on the spot fine of something quite astounding (can't remember the exact amount but it was something no child could possibly expect to pay on the spot) for cycling on the pavement.
There was a whole load of bizarre stuff but not enough MP's bothered to turn up or read the Bill... and it went to the Lords. I'd never quite seen the point of the non elected body and instinctively against it but it drew my attention to the sort of stuff that can just get passed in Parliament.
2-3 years ago some legislation made it through the commons that amongst many things gave a PSCO the right...
You assume, incorrectly, that this was an oversight.
It's actually been reassuring to read the sensible comments about the unlikelihood of increased legislation. Some good balanced discussion with a lower proportion of bile than anticipated so cheers guys.
Im suffering from a cold this weekend so instead of doing the bike race I intended I went for a fly down at Bopeep hill on the South Downs. Kept me interested for 4 hours and it was a beautiful morning.
Malvern rider you made me laugh with your post. Had to duck on one of my low height fly passes. Probably could have jumped the plane on a bike.
The reason this CAA legislation hit a cord was that when I first looked into model flying (I wanted something creative to build in the evenings rather than sit around watching TV),I could see that powered flight was pretty restricted to permitted areas whereas unpowered gliding was allowed anywhere subject to some local bylaws. Then out of the blue about 4 weeks ago, BAM! BBC news story; 'You have one month to register yourself and your planes or you're breaking the law'! Furthermore if they publicise a few cases then everyone will know the proximity rules and then half of the flying hills will have walkers stating their rights to clear airspace around them. Probably won't happen to this degree but thanks to the invention and uptake of the drone, this new cool hobby I've found has the potential for angry walker confrontation, something that really spoils a ride for me sometimes.
Anyway I appreciate it is a stretch to transpose this particular scenario onto ebikes. It was the similarity between "analogue" flying and electric flight that made me think of it. That and the 'making the sport instantly accessible for all' rather than putting up a few barriers to slow down the learning process, allowing time to hear a few opinions and requiring commitment to enable progression. Three things that I personally feel helps to select for the more thoughtful people in society. (Now there's a massive assumption if you want it!)
the worst likely to happen is compulsory 3rd party insurance for e-bikers
TBF thats a great idea for everyone.
I've always had insurance via one organisation or another. Never used it and been riding since the mid 80's but it costs so little it's not a problem.
Some people really do think the sky is falling in.
All this talk of ruining my sport.
It's riding a bike in the woods FFS and as pointed out some where in this thread no one cares about a few sad cyclists. The general public aren't going to be flocking to your local trails because they can go a bit faster and further after splashing several grand an an electric assisted kids toy.
Come on they aren't even slightly interested in going outside never mind riding a bike through some woods.
Interesting point.
But how would it be policed?
Just like the drones the ‘sensible law abiding’ folk will register them – the ‘dicks’ won’t – nothing stopping them picking one up on eBay or faceache market place and flying them like a dick.
I was going to say exactly the same thing.
In another parallel we have the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 which means people can't buy certain weapon parts via mail order or "black" airsoft kit without a licence. Unless they just buy it from outside the UK. Then there's the Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2015 - you can't buy an air weapon without a licence. Unless you buy it in England or Wales. Or mail order from abroad.
These laws only serve to punish the law abiding and hamper the furtherance of the respective pastimes, if folk want to circumvent them and be arses they will, look at the MX and quad bike gangs. Legislation already existed to prosecute people for misuse in all the above scenarios, why is more legislation going to make a difference?
I read this thread earlier and thought the OP was being more than a bit melodramatic. I mean c'mon, they're ebikes, they are not going to cause chaos like a drone.
But then I saw this video and can't help but think that things like this 'ebike' will eventually ruin it.
Apparently this is classed as an ebike and that you can choose pedals or throttle to power it but it can't be legally an ebike becasue of the sheer power it produces.
Bogles the mind that people think this is OK.
Apparently this is classed as an ebike
Throttle to power it, and more power than is legal makes it an electric motorbike.
Apparently this is classed as an ebike
Not by UK law.
Apparently this is classed as an ebike
I think the salient point is that members of the general public won't know the difference
Laws...does it matter what laws are made up as who is going to enforce them ?. I regularly ride the green lanes in the peaks on a motorbike and an emtb, I keep completely legal on the motorbike but even if I didn’t there is no one there to tell me not too. If I get lost on the emtb which I have done and end up on a footpath what is gonna happen ?, the bobble hats have had loads of green lanes closed in the peaks which has impacted my hobby of green laning, I still stop for them when I’m on a legal lane and I’m polite, half of them aren’t, if they did the same with access for cycles I’d just ignore it, maybe not the best attitude but I like my 2 wheels too much to give it up.
I think the salient point is that members of the general public won’t know the difference
[img] 
[/img]
I think they probably will
This is what the guy in the video above was riding.
I'd like to see that E Bike in the vid do a long straight section to see what sort of power and speed it's really capable of
If they have more the 250w motor and provide assistance over 15.5mph then they are not bikes and require motorcycle type approval. No new laws are needed, just enforceme t of current law.
hysterical nonsense.
You might not agree with the op but there's nothing hysterical about the post.
On a (slightly) related note, CTT the pointy-hatted time trial body voted at the weekend to make rear lights mandatory for all riders in all events......so that includes daytime events, circuit events & closed road events.
I will bet it won't be long before some lawyer uses the fact a non-racing cyclist didn't have a rear light on to mitigate blame after their client has hit them with a vehicle.
A vote to make helmets compulsory was only just unsuccessful.
The majority of non-cyclists see no difference between a yoof on a BSO, an old boy on a Hetchins, a tester on the E2 or one of us on our best Gnarpoon; we're all just 'cyclists' so why shouldn't we all be subject to the same rules....in the same way we all jump red lights because they saw one do it once.
I have no strong feelings on e-bikes, but don't think the OP's thought process is too far-fetched
I’m sure somewhere on the internet is a discussion from glider modellers about how ‘these new drone thingys will impact us all’ with a bunch of arguing from polarised opinions. I mean it’s ridiculous isn’t it? How would these new craft be lumped in with hobby of spending hundreds of hours building models then trekking to remote hilltops to fly them? A pastime that has been going on for over half a century?
When I first saw the legislation I thought sod that, I’m not registering, however very quickly I realised I couldn’t get third party insurance without it and that was that. Compliance.
If you can write a ref number on a bit of balsa and carry an ID then it’s not inconceivable that you would be forced to affix a number plate to your bike.
Musing on it all though I think growing environmental awareness will help here. I doubt politicians will be keen to be seen as anti-cycling. Also the cycling lobby is undoubtedly more forceful than the British Modellers Association.
A couple of points:
1) ^^ That's not bicycle of any type, the rider doesn't pedal at all but is able to accelerate using a throttle; it's a motorbike ^^
2) Licencing of pedal bikes or riders and enforcing those licences etc will never happen... where do you draw the line? Most riders with families have 2 or 3 kids bikes in the shed, as well as their own N+1 quiver of bikes, and what about the millions of casual riders who just have a pub bike, old commuter bike they occasionally use, or kids on BMX's on their paperround and riding to school etc etc.
I agree with you about de-restricted e-bikes though. However, laws are in place for this right across Europe and the UK, they just need to be enforced.
I tend to worry like the OP. A lot of posters seem to see how daft any legislation would be and how E-Bikes are not like human powered bikes etc, and quite logically assume daft rules wont be implemented.
But logic and rational thinking is often in short supply when it comes to outraged voters or bobble hatted nimbys, never mind those who make up the laws.
Ive seen it with off road motorcycling, I used to do a lot of Green Lane riding years ago. Now its pretty impossible. I rode respectfully as I also ride a mountain bike and rode horses. I had a number plate and insurance. But due to some ****ts, who probably continue to ride about like ****ts, the laws have been changed so there are almost no places left to ride.
Hopefully I will be wrong, but I wont be surprised when legistlation starts to creep in, or places start to restrict riding. Its easy for a non cyclist just to suggest we should all be confined to Trail Centers. Look at places like Swinley, where confilct has resulted in the Official Trail being the only trail we are supposed to use. Sure, most of us ignore that, but whats the next step, having to carry a ticket to show you paid, making that ticket look like a tag to attach to your bike, etc.
This is how things slowly slide towards the sort of legislation you really dont want.
Theoretically, current legislation is perfectly adequate for the control of derestricted ebikes. Anything over 250W or 25kph is a motorcycle requiring registration, insurance and a driving licence (and excise and construction & use requirements). Riding a derestricted ebike on a road should lead to a Section 165A seizure for riding without insurance, with no hope of getting it back as it can't be insured as a road legal motorcycle as it doesn't comply with other regs. I've used this legislation to seize mini motos and owners do get a 'tad' upset that their expensive toy isn't coming home.
Defining a 'road' in law may seem straightforward but there are stacks of contradictory court findings, generally involving gates and public access, that muddy the waters.
If ridden off road, it can still be seized under antisocial behaviour legislation if a warning has previously been given either to that rider on any motorbike or any rider on that motorbike within the previous 12 months. There is also an offence of riding elsewhere than on a road, often used in tandem.
The difficulty comes in a) the police being thin on the ground, busy with other things and largely unsure of their powers, and b) the CPS / Fiscal not being particularly keen to take technical cases to court, particularly if no one is injured. This assumes they too understand and care about the fairly obscure statutes (EAPC Regs anyone?) that apply, which they don't.
I would suspect that now't much will happen until an ebike, restricted or otherwise, has a 'Charlie Alliston' moment. The press will have a field day and certain politicians will feed off the outrage, taking us who knows where.
Anybody that buys a modern ebike and decides to derestrict it for shits and giggles only has themselves to blame if the laws of physics or parliament subsequently bite them on the bum.
There is also an offence of riding elsewhere than on a road, often used in tandem.
I hadn't heard of a general offence of this nature, which is it?
no country in the world has ever produced a workable licensing sytem for bicyclers
Not for bikes, but here's some German e-scooters:
There is also an offence of riding elsewhere than on a road, often used in tandem.
I hadn’t heard of a general offence of this nature, which is it?
Grab a coffee, you'll need it!
I’d like to see that E Bike in the vid do a long straight section to see what sort of power and speed it’s really capable of
Not the same bike but gives an idea of the speeds possible, the same guy has uploaded vids riding (and pushing, believe it or not DOWN SPOOKY WOOD descent after getting a flat 🤣) around Glentress red route. E mtbs and Ebikes are not the same thing, if it moves without pedalling it's an electric motorbike, 16000w motor puts it firmly in the not allowed where a MX bike wouldn't be category imo
I would suspect that now’t much will happen until an ebike, restricted or otherwise, has a ‘Charlie Alliston’ moment.
As mentioned earlier, this has already happened. In August 2018.
The press will have a field day and certain politicians will feed off the outrage, taking us who knows where.
This didn’t happen as a result though.
(Kind of proven by the fact so many people don’t seem to know it even happened)
Despite how the YouTube hooligan above chooses to caption his own clip, ebikes and emtbs are both very much electrically assisted pedal cycles. For example Riese and Muller utility ebikes and full suss Spesh Turbo Levo emtbs may have different uses but their legal status is identical; EAPC. We need to be very clear on differentiating between pedal cycles, restricted EAPCs and motorcycles (including de-restricted ebikes) that require documents and C&U compliance.
Calling a motorcycle an ebike (as above) because it happens to be propelled by an electric motor rather than an ICE creates the risk of tarring everyone with the same brush. There's a world of difference between them and we need to hammer that home before the MSM and wider society make sweeping generalisations and ill informed judgements to the detriment of all lawful cyclists and ebike users.
A Tesla has a driver's seat and is powered by leccy but that don't make it a class 2 or 3 electric wheelchair. Important not to make that mistake with ebikes.