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I quite fancy a wee wheel build and trying out this wheel size. My VN Amazon seems to have sufficient clearance. I have a couple of questions though;
What is the overall diameter of a 650x47 tyre once fitted? I'm interested to see what it does to BB height.
What would be an ideal rim width? I'm potentially looking at silver rims which might limit my choice. Something like a Vapour (21mm external) is what I'm currently thinking but could be persuaded to go wider.
For info, I have an Airborne Carpe Diem which I think is very similar to your VN Amazon and I'm currently going through the process of fitting 650b's with 47mm Horizons.
Clearance on the back is a little tight on the chain stays, maybe a few mm either side. Didn't notice it affecting the BB much at all and comparing wheels side to side with some 700x30's there's little difference in height.
I've got some new wheels turning up today which from memory are 27mm rims so it's gonna be tight!
Great feedback. As you say the frames are near identical, though I think mine might have a bit more clearance. I've had 1.75" Marathons in it - but only by inflating the tyre with the wheel in the frame 🙂
There's a really useful thread on LFGSS that covers all 650b tyres in all frames which might be useful
[url= https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/274215/?offset=1475#comment13947896 ]Hipster![/url]
It's 60 pages long though!
I'm running a 29er Project 2 fork on mine so clearance on the front isn't an issue but it is pretty tight on the back. To test fit the tyres I tried some OEM Marin Pine Mountain wheels in the frame (with a bit of pulling on the dropouts) and on crazy wide (40mm) rims they fit fine. Definitely worth doing too, it's soooo comfy to ride.
What is the overall diameter of a 650x47 tyre once fitted?
~685mm. Rims, I started on Arch EXs, can't recall the width. Now use 21mm for the 42mm road tyres and 25mm for 47mm Byways, so about half the rim width feels about right. I'd go wider w/o concerns for the weight but not sure there's any benefit, looking at the volume and tyre profile on 25mm rims.
Sorry I can't get a better pic but these are my 650b X 47 byways on WTB i25 rims pictured next to my Vittoria Corsa 25's on DT Swiss Spline 700 wheels.
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Everything I've read says they come up around the same of a pair of 28's on road rims and that's probably about right.
They've become my commuting wheels of choice now. Perfect for potholed roads in the dark when you can't quite see what's in front of you until it's too late....
Bregante, where did you get the Byway from? Thinking of swapping my Horizons fit them now it’s getting a bit sloppy out. I know there’s not much tread there but it’s more than the Horizon has!
OP, no empirical data but I haven’t noticed any difference in B.B. or toe overlap since swapping from 700c G One to the 650b Horizons on my Sonder Camino Al.
Mattbee, embarrassingly I can't remember for certain but I think it was Acycles.co.uk but it was back in august and I can't see them listed now.
They're not mud tyres by any means but to be honest I've had them on some fairly gloopy bits of trail and haven't died yet.
www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TYTEREW27/terrene-elwood-275-tyre
I have these fitted in the light version. Absolute bargain and ive done lots of varied stuff on them. Even 100 milers plus on the road.
Just seen the Superstar rims - 25mm internal - for £40. Any other suggestions for silver rims in that width?
They're the ones I've bought. When I've driven to the ends of the earth to collect them from the DPD depot, I'll let you know what they're like
Those Elwoods look very similar to the Teravail Sparwood I've got on my Fargo, I'm tempted.... shame only the tough are left in stock.
How are people finding the 650b Horizons?
I'm looking forsome guards to use my Bokeh for winter commuting and can't decide whether to stick with some 700c 30mm tyres or to go for a set of 650b 47mm Horizons. Obviously this will affect which guards I go for.
Are the Horizons noticeably slower than normal 700c road tyres? I'm currently running a set if 38mm Compass Barlow Pass so I'd hope they'd be similar to those.
How are people finding the 650b Horizons?
Very good - I hate to say gamechanging, but compared to the previous 650Bs I was using they're overall a much better choice imo. They have changed what I'll set out to do on a drop-bar bike.
Are the Horizons noticeably slower than normal 700c road tyres?
Depends. Not really, if the roads are poorly surfaced and they're at a low pressure (25-30PSI for me at 75kg) they're no slower - yet they don't 'feel' fast. If the roads are smooth, well they're 550g and a fairly tough/thick trad area so they're not as naturally quick as eg 650x38 Pari-Motos. They're much tougher than Panaracer's tyres though ime so for commuting and touring I prefer the WTBs. As said above, wet, dark and potholed roads are so much nicer on 650x47 compared to skinny 700s, but not everyone will like the softer tyre feel overall.
Not tried horizons but i did a little experiment with the terrane elwoods. 2 completely different bikes my fast roadie giant propel with 25/23 tyres
Im about 30- 31 kmh average on my work 30 km commute.with my tripster and the 650 47mm elwoods that have a slight tread I was 28kmh. so slower but not a massive amount.
I might give them a go, nothing to lose really!
flange - any feedback on the rims, or have you not made it back from the depot yet?
Keeping an eye on this post interested in trying 650b on my caadx if I have clearance on the rear, anyone tried 650b on the caadx?
My wheels and horizon tyres should be here over the next couple of days, so I'm able to 650b-erize my sequoia. I'll report back when done
Scotroutes, I think CRC still have WTB KOMs in 23mm going for some obscenely cheap amount of money, something like twenty pounds. At that price it could be worth rawing them up yourself?
I've run nanos (in 700) on a 23 and they handle it well, I imagine 47 would be brilliant.
I thought I should at least pop up a photo of the finished article.
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4775/40807950762_259fbdbc0a_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4775/40807950762_259fbdbc0a_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/25b4q2Y ]20180311_122015[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/druidh2000/ ]Colin Cadden[/url], on Flickr
Only been out on a couple of rides so far. Conditions have been a bit "variable" but the Horizons seem pretty sure-footed. I ended up using Shimano hubs. I got a great deal on a XT 8000 rear (£38.00) and found a matching XT Dynamo front for around £85.
I set the tyres up tubeless earlier today and, so far, they seem to have gone perfectly.
Looks cool Scotroutes! I’ve done the same on my new Vaya, been getting some advice from the forum as to bikepacking, hope to get out soon on it. I’m running Hope pro 4 hubs on cheap wtb sti25 rims from Planet X with the wtb byways
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Just fitted some WTB Horizon 650b x 47c to my GT Grade (the widest 700c tyre I could fit previously was 35c). Not ridden them much yet so still adjusting pressures etc.
The 650b wheel and 47c tyre is supposed to fit into frames which will normally take a 700x30c tyre (hence it fits my Grade with a few mm to spare each side).
The info with the tyres stated suitable for 17-27mm rim internal width, although on the true sidewall it says up to 30mm rim width. I'm using some Sunn-Ringle Inferno rims which i think are 20mm width.
FWIW the Byways were 42mm across when I first fitted them (with tubes). They'd stretched to 45mm after a few days. That's on a 23mm internal rim.
Has anyone fitted 650x47 wheels to a Genesis Croix de Fer? From @downhillfast's comment it appears that you can but it would be nice to know for sure.
Cheers scotroutes for that I must take a look at them , I’m running them tubeless at 30 psi not sure if that makes a difference but they are surprisingly fast and comfortable
Don't discount narrow xc race tyres, I've put spesh fasttracks 27x2.0 on my RAG+, I ride through muddy stretches and my resolutes weren't grippy enough. Quite like the fasttracks apart from them being wider than the mud guards.
@scruff how do you find the fasttracks on tarmac roads between gravel roads
fudge9202, they are OK really, not fast obviously but not draggy like a 'normal' mtb tyre.
Out again this afternoon, gradually getting onto softer, rootier trails. The tyres are still surprising me (and the folk I was riding with).
I set them up tubeless last night. It was easy - too easy.... I'd already cleaned the rims and applied the 25mm tubeless tape, so it was just a matter of breaking one bead, removing the tube, inserting a valve (cheapo ones off Amazon), refitting the bead and inflating with a track pump. They popped straight on. Remove core, insert tubeless gunk, refit core, inflate again and shake. No leaks, no loss of pressure overnight. It's always difficult to be objective with these things but the tyres seemed a bit more compliant today.
I'm liking. A lot.
Lucky you Colin I nearly lost the feeling in my thumbs trying to fit my byways onto the WTB rims but once on like yourself went up tubeless 1st time, I’m thinking of getting a 650b set of Soma Cazaderos for knarlier stuff but none in the U.K. Will probably have to look at the Germans
Lovely bike btw.
The 650x47 (byway) set up is easily my favourite set up on my Arkose now. They're ok in all but the worst mud and they're remarkably quick along the pot hole strewn roads in my neck of the woods. Last weekend I rode out to the Wirral from Manchester along roads, canal paths and around 20miles of bridleway and they didn't miss a beat and I got a load of PB's on the road sections that I've ridden countless times before .
Ace
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Hi Colin
Hurry up and update your blog! Your public (ie me!) are waiting!!!
cool thread. I've just fitted 2 inch Pacenti Quasimotos to my gravel frame test bike of Italian loveliness. Looking forward to seeing how they ride. Lots of grip but very light tyres.
Sanny