[Closed] 650b that is all.

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I'll see your pooch and raise you a cat
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Ok... I see your cat counter with a Baboon
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But... Krampus 29+. 3.8 on 26. 2.4 on 29. All make 650b look like a tiny gesture barely worth the effort.

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And a bum...

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I do wish the industry could settle on size and be done with it. I don't care which.

The bike industry has always been drawn to pointless middle-of-the-road compromises that please nobody and achieve nothing apart from requiring new parts... 650B is the new QR15. Let this new disaster come, it makes but one more.

The contents of my shed and the thousands of pounds I have invested on 26" wheels, frames and forks over the last lord knows how many years begs to differ.

650b marketing
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As said in a Bike Mag piece last year - the companies hyping 650b are those that missed the 29er boat. A big 26" tyre comes pretty darn close to 650b. 26" isn't going away. Installed base, innit?

And a big 650b tyre comes pretty darn close to 29" innit?

One big advantage of 650B is that it allows people who jumped on the 29er wagon and now regret it a chance to go back to smaller wheels without admitting they were wrong. It's still bigger (just not enough to actually make any difference).

Although, I suspect that Northwind has got it pretty close to the mark too.

Yes it has been done before

Thread closed.

If you want big wheels, buy a 29er.

word on the inside is all the companies are going this way and that is that 😕

To quote the OP .....

Yes it has been done before 🙄

So why do it again 😐

If you want a reaction why not start another 911 thread 😉

And a big 650b tyre comes pretty darn close to 29" innit?

No it is much closer to a 26er, barely worth the bother.... See picture above between arses.

And you are all wrong 29+ is the future. Lets not forget the latest "standard"

word on the inside is all the companies are going this way and that is that

Does this include "Niner"?

There is no profit in riding old bikes... you need to buy new bikes... our new bikes... so we show you a new wheel size which we say is better than the old wheel size... and were going to stop with the old wheels size so you have to buy a new bike.

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"[i]Most defiantly[/i]" you say. Hmmm...

70mm stems are dead on their bums, 75mm is just too long, we need 72.5!

that's rubbish, real proper bikes have stems of 110 or more;-)

If you want a reaction why not start another 911 thread

911 is dead

n Korea now 😉

may have meant 29er been done before too much 🙂

that's rubbish, real proper bikes have stems of 110 or more;-)

+1

but with 29" wheels.

70mm stems! My god, I thought we'd moved away from huge long stems. 🙂

I will not pass judgement till I've spent time on 650b. But that picture above comparing the wheels does bias me alot. And the fact that I've lots of 26" wheels.

Last time I checked I'd never had a problem with 26" wheels. I'd not died and I ride at the limit of what I feel capable of (quite often a bit beyond that too).

Why would I go 650B?

bikeind - Member
word on the inside is all the companies are going this way and that is that

Not if we don't buy them it's not. They can only sell what we buy at the end of the day.

If they discount it enough we will buy into it (never mind the consequences) 🙄

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What is the problem with 26 inch wheels again?

Not new enough.

Ahh I see. Apparently I was told by someone that had them that 29 inch wheels really smooth out the trail and take all the bumps away, he seemed really keen. I couldn't help thinking that very smooth trails sound a bit like roads?

911's a joke in your town.

nealglover - Member

If you want a reaction why not start another 911 thread

The conspiracy industry has declared 911 is outdated, it's all 912.5 now.

Ahh I see. Apparently I was told by someone that had them that 29 inch wheels really smooth out the trail and take all the bumps away, he seemed really keen. I couldn't help thinking that very smooth trails sound a bit like roads?

Some enjoy climbing, while others just see it as the way to reach the next descent, some like speed, some like nadgery techy bits, some like jumps, some don't - the idea that there is one perfect wheel size for this passtime is laughable. Just make sure you have wheels, and you'll have fun.

Excellent somethingion klumpy.

If I made my local(ish) trails easier I'd go faster, have less fun and probably break some bones. 18" unicycle for me next

Whereas for me (at the moment) it's all about being able to access as much of the mountain as possible. There are still lots of (natural) trails nearby that I can't ride down (but more skilled riders than me can). With time I'm sure I'll learn to ride them, but if a new bike (or a new wheel size) lets me get down them safely now that's quite tempting too. After all, there is always something even bigger to tackle round the corner.

I was told by my LBS last week (with a straight face) that 650b:
a) had [b]all[/b] the advantages of 29"
b) were virtually the same size (and therefore weight) as 26"

They sound [i]magic[/i] to me.

I overheard a chap at the hub at glentress, who had put really skinny tyres on 650B, which he reckoned took away all the disadvantages of the bigger size. Congratulations sir, you've just invented the 26 inch wheel!

Whereas for me (at the moment) it's all about being able to access as much of the mountain as possible. There are still lots of (natural) trails nearby that I can't ride down (but more skilled riders than me can). With time I'm sure I'll learn to ride them, but if a new bike (or a new wheel size) lets me get down them safely now that's quite tempting too. After all, there is always something even bigger to tackle round the corner.

Well 29ers have been around for... What over five or six years now so obviously it's time to add something else to annoy us or think about. The mountain bike wouldn't be where it is today without innovation (road bikes change very little) but some of things done over the years have thankfully been scrapped. We will no doubt be laughing at these tiresome arguments ten years from now when instead we'll be discussing new bottom bracket/hub width or whatever other standards we must endure for 'progress' .

On the other hand a shop owner I respect said he'd never ride a 26 inch bike again, however he does have a rather nice line in 29r's.

Ahh I see. Apparently I was told by someone that had them that 29 inch wheels really smooth out the trail and take all the bumps away, he seemed really keen.I couldn't help thinking that very smooth trails sound a bit like roads?

Not as much as suspension 😉

Ha I'm not getting away with this am I?

Does everyone realise the 650B is an old standard? And 29er is just a 700C, which is also an old standard. Both old standards that predate mountain bikes. All that happened is somone made off road tyres for an old standard and called it "new" and declared it a must have.

29ers are just hybrids, like your mum rode in 1998 😛

Local group out on their 29ers... 😀

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I don't get the wheel size debate, can't think of any other sports/passtimes where stuff like this creates such a debate, take skateboarding; massive range of boardsize, wheel size, truck size/height etc, no one cares you just ride what you want. Same with snowboarding, surfing, the curse of the skateparks scooting, rollerblading you name it, who gives a fk.

I don't get the wheel size debate

Well don't join in then 🙂

Seriously though, the issue is that the vast majority of frames are not backwards or forwards compatible. If you buy 26" you can't then decide a year down the line to put some bigger wheels in or vice versa. It's such a fundamental decision to make and most of us have little more than the marketing blurb to guide us.

I don't get the wheel size debate, can't think of any other sports/passtimes where stuff like this creates such a debate, take skateboarding; massive range of boardsize, wheel size, truck size/height etc, no one cares you just ride what you want. Same with snowboarding, surfing, the curse of the skateparks scooting, rollerblading you name it, who gives a fk.

Well don't join in then

Point taken 🙂

Golf! haha.

word on the inside is all the companies are going this way and that is that

Not all will, and the ones who don't will do very well.
IDGAF what spesh and Scott do, I don't buy their stuffs anyway (not that there's anything wrong with it). As long as younger, smaller more vibrant companies will continue to do 26" I'll be happy.

Meanwhile those of us with the old style reel and five iron remain more than happy with the number of cans we sink sitting next to the green, it was never really about the fish was it?

Same with snowboarding, [b][i]surfing[/b][/i], the curse of the skateparks scooting, rollerblading you name it, who gives a fk.

Ever been surfing?

Long board, short boards, mal, mini mal, fish tail, SUP, that custom one you had built as you were convinced it would be the best thing ever then it was crap but you wont admit it, cheep board for leanding to mates to learn, summer wet suit, winter wetsuit, boots, hoods, gloves, rash vets and board shorts that you'll never wear on a board in this country, but own anyway.

And a T4 to put it all in when in reality the roof of an estate car is just as good.

You think surfing is that different to MTB?

Can't wait for my new Spesh to arrive. So excited!

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All it will take is a downhiller to win the world champs on a 650b and the rest will pick up and notice and evolve.........Top level racing is always looking for the slightest advantage. This trickles down to us lot.
You may call it marketing BS, somewhat true.
But here's a thought
Will The Orange 5 be around in 5 years time in its present state? Doubt it, if so it will go down down like an Austin Princess.

This thread is now repeating posts from a previous wheelsize thread!

'All it will take... '. What a load of

I am in the market for a new bike at the moment. The different standards in MTB are giving me a bit of a headache.

Maybe I will just buy a road bike.

wobbem - Member

All it will take is a downhiller to win the world champs on a 650b and the rest will pick up and notice and evolve.......

Every world champs ever has been won on 26 inch wheels, yet some people choose 29 inch wheels 😉

And a big 650b tyre comes pretty darn close to 29" innit?

Where are you getting these 650b tyres from?

Is it the new format Surly are working on?

650B Fat sound kind of cool. 😆

I had a sit on a quarterhorse with 2.35 tyres 5" bolt thru forks and 800mm bars. It felt like it would roll over anything and big wheels is only part of that. You have to take everything in the round and wheel size is just one factor. So don't get too exercised about it.

Soon all MTB races will be won on either 650b or 29" as that will be all the bike manufacturers will provide. Most if not all mainstream bike manufacturers think the future is in these two wheel sizes and there is no future for 26". I'm not saying that spells the death of 26", but it will be relegated to a nostalgic 'old school' niche market rather than top of the line, cutting edge bikes and factory race bikes. All the main manufacturers are going that way.

The reality is with this debate is that it really doesn't matter. Are you really going to sell your perfectly good 26" wheeled bike solely for the purpose of going to a larger wheel size? There may be marketing men at work here, but you don't HAVE to listen to them.

Same with snowboarding, surfing, the curse of the skateparks scooting, rollerblading you name it, who gives a fk.

I'm guessing you've never seen all the rocker vs camber vs TBT or 'is magne-traction marketing BS' debates in snowboarding then. It's exactly the same.

650B Fat sound kind of cool

Soon all MTB races will be won on either 650b or 29" as that will be all the bike manufacturers will provide. Most if not all mainstream bike manufacturers think the future is in these two wheel sizes and there is no future for 26". I'm not saying that spells the death of 26", but it will be relegated to a nostalgic 'old school' niche market rather than top of the line, cutting edge bikes and factory race bikes. All the main manufacturers are going that way.

Donning my tin foil hat, I get the feeling that most of the manufacturers, got together in a bar after a trade show last year with someone like say Kirk Pacenti and agreed that after all the cock-ups on BB standards and headset standards, what they really need is a new wheel size they can all agree on to invigorate sales. Otherwise it seems a remarkable coincidence that they all started producing 650b in the same year without any really customer driven demand.

I get the feeling that most of the manufacturers, got together in a bar after a trade show last year ... Otherwise it seems a remarkable coincidence that they all started producing 650b in the same year without any really customer driven demand.

Marketing depts earning their corn imho.

The 26" mtb demand has dropped thru the floor for most retailers so they have to find something to fill the gap. Its been a few years trying to get 29 going and it hasnt really taken off so they are looking around for something else and 650b (or 27.5" as its being called in the trade) is this years attempt.

In my bike collection I have three 26" wheeled bikes & have built up a collection of about a dozen spare tyres. I switch tyres according to conditions & the bike I'm riding at the time. I have no desire to change this setup.

I have tried a 29er, but not a 650b yet. 29ers weren't for me, but I can see the point of them. I can't see the point of 650b - for me the potential gains are only marginal & not worth the expense.

How many of you have ridden a 650b specific design bike???

Ride one,then make comments.

mmmmm, I think i'll keep [b][u]riding[/u][/b] my 26" wheeled bike with the 1 1/8 fork, qr wheels and square taper bb

nicolaisam - Member

How many of you have ridden a 650b specific design bike???

Ride one,then make comments.

I have. (Also tried 24,29,700c, 26x4 and 26x5) 😉

Felt like a 26er to me.

Been hoping for a 650B x 3.3-3.5 tyre

Now that would be interesting to try.

How many of you have ridden a 650b specific design bike???

Me, very briefly. Felt good. Just like a decent 29er or 26er feels good.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this as purely a marketing exercise. There are clearly benefits to the larger wheel sizes. In this months MBR mag there is an interview with Norco's chief designer who was saying this and that the real battle is 650b vs 29er and thinks we'll eventually settle on both wheel sizes with 650b for the long travel downhill orientated bikes and smaller bikes for smaller people and 29er for the XC/trail bikes. He mentioned there was no area where 26" bikes were not out-performed by either 650b or 29er. Norco are clear where their future lies. It would be a huge risk for other manufacturers not to folliw suit. However for the average recreational rider, or even the above average recreational rider, I'm sure wont probably notice those benefits hence my earlier comment about would anyone really change a bike purely for the reason of getting a larger wheel size. It would be like selling a bike just to change the colour.

How many of you have ridden a 650b specific design bike???

The thing is though, in order to make any meaningful decision on the merits of 650b, you'd really have to try several 650b bikes, and compare them to several 26" wheel bikes (and maybe 29ers too) over similar terrain/conditions. I'm not sure I can be bothered.

Otherwise you are just saying 'I like this bike better than that bike' (probably with some heavy confirmation bias from how much you believe mates/magazines etc).

mmmmm, I think i'll keep riding my 26" wheeled bike with the 1 1/8 fork, qr wheels and square taper bb

Well you will for as long as you can get spares to replace damaged/worn out bits. How long before all forks are tapered steerer, bolt through and optimized for a different wheel diameter? Unfortunately (IMO) if you want to keep riding the changes will be forced on you eventually (when was the last time you saw a fork available with a one inch steerer for example?)

Managed to get a fork with a 1" threadless steerer and disc mount on ebay. Didn't want to pay £80 but had no other choice really. Now looking for a un72 with a short spindle. Think I'll just end up buying another HT2 in the end

I own a oldish nice 26 FS bike and a really old a bit rubbish 26 er hard tail. It will be years until that changes.

But i expect that when I next buy an off road bike it'll have bigger wheels.

I'm really quite ignorant about this but it does look like 650b is the way to go. Precisely because it so close to 26 with a huge tyre.

Forks etc will be only really need one lower moulding as that should be able to accomodate both standards. It will either fit a large 26 er tyre or a thinner 650b tyre. An ideal one bike solution for me would be a bike with 2 sets of wheels set up like this. When we fit thinner mud tyres, to cut into the mud, we don't really want a smaller outside diameter. So the thinner tyres should be mounted on a larger rim. Same for fitting road slicks or thinner tyres for fast smooth trails.

I even wonder if thats why the bike industry is pushing for 650b. 26 and 29 is really 2 very different systems. What they want is 2 wheel sizes that overlap to cut down on the range of design and mouldings.

I think that 26 tyres and 1 1/8 headsets have been around long enough for us to be confident that we can continue to get parts for our current bikes for many decades. 1" was never really an MTB standard in the suspension age

Well you will for as long as you can get spares to replace damaged/worn out bits. How long before all forks are tapered steerer, bolt through and optimized for a different wheel diameter? Unfortunately (IMO) if you want to keep riding the changes will be forced on you eventually (when was the last time you saw a fork available with a one inch steerer for example?)

hope xc hubs, just need cartridge bearings, ditto wtb headset, forks are currently available in both and will be for a long time yet, square taper shimano units will be available for ever as too many "normal" bikes use them

if I do have to change, i'll do what I always do, buy 2nd hand for a fraction of the cost 😀

oh and wait until the bunfight is over to see who wins,
bit like vhs/Betamax
blu ray/ hd dvd

bit like vhs/Betamax
blu ray/ hd dvd

I just steam from Apple now. I wonder what the MTB equivalnt of that will be?

I'm sure we all know the physics now of better attack angle of a larger wheel, better rolling etcetc BUT it does come with increased weight. I have a humble Cotic Soul parts in special weight is 23.5 lbs, I am not going to get a Solaris down to that weight easily without a lot of carbon!
You still have to pedal/push these bikes up hill.
Everyone seems to forget the weight side of things frame wheels tyres forks all by default are heavier as they are larger whether 29 or 650B
Certainly as one gets older power gets less so bike weight is important!

How many of you have ridden a 650b specific design bike???