[Closed] 650b selling

I am very happy for you.

Is it more the way forward than 29ers?

really brings the trail alive

Strange you say this, I always thought the point of 650b was to rollover stuff better/smooth riding out. Though this would dull down trails rather than bring them alive.

Hey Ho.

I love mine I must say really brings the trail alive

I found that as well. Little plantlets were literally (sic) sprouting under my wheels with 650b, something I've never noticed with other wheel sizes. In contrast, riding a 29er has a four horsemen-type impact on my local routes leaving a withered trail of smoking destruction in my wake. I also noted how it combined the advantages of both 26" and 29" hoops in a single compelling package with none of the downsides of either. I am available to write more marketing cobblers at very reasonable rates. 😉

BadlyWiredDog - Member

I love mine I must say really brings the trail alive
I found that as well. Little plantlets were literally (sic) sprouting under my wheels with 650b,

You can get the same effect by applying a 12.5mm layer of horse manure to a 26" tyre

I love mine I must say really brings the trail alive

😆 🙄

It's 9am trolling time.

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Adds bikeind to '[b]the list[/b]'

It brings the trail alive yes as this carrying more speed equates to that special buzz factor

I have worked in bike shops over 25 years well actually all my working life and Saturdays while at school so trust me I know my thing one would say and can hold my own out on the trails

650b is a great improvement to our bikes it will supersede the old skool 26" which will remain obsolete in years to come
It is all we in the shop ride now

[img] [/img]

I am one of the hated who owns a 29er and must say it is like riding a racehorse uphill, the thing just wants to leave you behind. I absolutely love it yet my mates just want to destroy it as i leave them behind every time we approach an incline. Needless to say they have now nicknamed it the "circus bike" ha ha. Would love to see how a 650b rides, may have to trial one

obvious trolls are so obvious I cant be bothered getting the picture

all we ride...kill them uphill etc

You guys are proper funny

Gee Atherton "held his own" in that video, that was a load of balls too

* s****s *

We've not sold any 650b bikes since they came out.
To be fair we are a gift shop.

I'm convinced - which should I buy ?

I rode my 26" past a kitten the other day and the kitten died. 😥

If I ride a 650b will it come back to life again?

o rly? 😐

negativity on here will surpass once realised it is the way forward

I know my thing

supersede

It is all wee in the shop

the only reason you are selling more 27.5 is because major bike brands are only making 27.5
i will stick with 26 thank you cant see what difference 1 1/2" makes altho wife would disagree with me
27.5" not as quick as a 26" in tight trails
27.5 dosent roll as well as a 29er
so what is the point
marketing bull****

As a neutral, I can't understand why there is so much "hate" for different wheel sizes. People have highlighted the very small percentage difference between the 26" and the 27.5" bike, but the percentage difference between a 70 degree head angle and a 67 degree head angle is similarly small, but you won't find many on here arguing that there isn't a fundamental difference in the way the bikes ride. Similarly with tread patterns, tyre compounds, frame geometry (not many on here riding 90s style "gates" I'll wager). Small differences that can mean significant gains dependent on riding style, priorities, terrain etc etc.
For me I can see how bigger wheels do roll better, they are less likely to get sunk into small bombholes or caught on roots, they will handle drops better. By the same token they are less manoeuvrable, slower to accelerate and harder to lift up and over stuff. Horses for courses I guess.
In truth though, I can't understand why there seems to be no correlation between frame size and wheel size. Look at a 26" bike with an XS frame and one with an XL frame. The position of the frame (and therefore the rider) in relation to the wheels is totally different. With an XS the rider is sat much more between the two wheels, with the XL he/she is perched on top. To me it makes more sense to have larger wheels with larger frames. As a 6'4" rider I'm about to buy (subject to trying it out and liking it) a 650b bike, it just seems to me that it will be a better fit.
I can't help thinking that for an industry that is so young, the mtb industry has packed an enormous amount of innovation into its 30 or so years. To me wheel size is just part of that. The 26" size became a standard pretty much by default, but there have been proponents of 29" for at least 20 years (the great Gary Fisher being one) and 650 has been talked about for at least 10 years. I don't see anything wrong with the industry trying different things to see what fits.
Gee Atherton could ride a penny farthing down a given trail far quicker than most of us could ride any type of FS bike. It's a false positive using him as an example. For the average rider, wheel size could be as important as geometry, tyre choice etc etc.
Rant over. Sure the usual posters of "funny" gifs will have a field day. At the end of the day though, just find what works for you and get out there and ride 🙂

I don't think there's hate, there's just a lot of suspicion that the industry is 100% onboard with this new wheel size because they want to sell more stuff. In fact, it's almost like they develop new standards or pretend they've found a new type of riding merely to make money. I don't recall the industry going all gung-ho over 650b when smaller companies made them (including the awesomely named Spooky Horror Taxi).

Some new things are genuine innovation, some new things are bullshit.

I can't understand why there is so much "hate" for different wheel sizes

Your argument that it depends on your size is not without merit

like i can afford to change all my bikes again 👿

load of bollox i tell you that

op you sound like a pure industry tool.

News just in, bike shops agree that everyone should buy new bikes.

New bikes with 1cm bigger radius wheels. All you need to feel this radical change is a new frame, forks, wheels, tyres and tubes! Potentially seatpost, headset, hoses, cables and bottom bracket. Your current saddle will be fine, don't worry, all is not lost.

It brings the trail alive yes as this carrying more speed equates to that special buzz factor

Imagine the buzz a 29er must give!

Check OP's recent posting history - he certainly likes to 'start an informed debate regarding wheel size' 😀

Pack it in, isn't everyone sick of going over it again and again!?

Double post

650b is not 27.5. It does not sit exactly in the middle of 26 and 29.

650b is 27". Amazingly spesh (who normally aren't backward in coming forward with regard to marketing and new "wonder" products)have decided that 650b is irrelevant and too close to 26 to be worth the trouble.

I find that the trail brings the er, trail alive. And in reply to an earlier poster- dig out an old 90's bike the trail feels so alive it'll bite your @rse. 😆

I really am not desperate for an extra inch. Thanks for your concern.

I don't think you've fully considered the consequences of bringing trails to life. What does a trail eat? Will the natural predators (landowners and dobebrs doing skids) be enough to keep them under control, or will they end up driving out less magical life? How do we stop them from wandering off? And is it even ethical to ride over a living trail? I wouldn't ride over a trail made of cats, it's basically the same thing.

For these reasons I have sold no 650b bikes.

Most people I ride with have been using big tyres for that extra inch for years.. now there is a wheel size that matches those needs. Great.

I just made my own 650b bike by sticking some ultra-fat Conti MK ii 2.4 tyres on my trusted 26er. Don't tell anyone :0

Again, would be nice if those involved in the industry could declare thier involvement.

Thanks.

26" wheels are the most common size in the world, people do world tours on them for the strength and ease of picking up spares. The second most common sizing being 700c, which is conveniently the same size as 29ers.

The idea that a totally new size will jump out of no where and take hold seems ludicrous. Especially given how close they are to 26". Given journalists are riding them and claiming to notice no difference, it seems a bit weak.

I don't think you've fully considered the consequences of bringing trails to life. What does a trail eat? Will the natural predators (landowners and dobebrs doing skids) be enough to keep them under control, or will they end up driving out less magical life? How do we stop them from wandering off? And is it even ethical to ride over a living trail? I wouldn't ride over a trail made of cats, it's basically the same thing.

For these reasons I have sold no 650b bikes.

😆 I'm amazed no one had even considered this angle yet 😆

Bike manufacturers are also saying there is little/no difference, well Santa Cruz did. Says allot when you compare their comments and lack of enthusiasm for 27.5 to Giants spin.

Worlds apart.

The hate is not for the wheel per se but the way the industry has just removed 26 ers from sale in order to force us to buy a new size that seems to be the worst of a 29 er and a 26 er. They then BS us that it is the best of both and due to rider demand.

This

glad your bike shop's doing well whatever wheel size you're selling

suppose the forecasted mass exodus of 26inch riders to 650b and 29'ers will mean bike shops selling more full bikes and hence keeping a more buoyant bike business for the foreseeable future

I currently have a couple of really excellent bikes with wheels. As and when the time comes to change them, I'm perfectly sympathetic to buying a complete bike with whatever wheels are then in vogue. I'm not rushing out and buying a new one simply because there are new ones to buy however.

🙂

I love mine I must say really brings the trail alive

Think of all the years you've wasted riding on dead trails when you could have just stuck some bigger tyres on to bring it alive 🙁

All these years riding 26" feel worthless now 😐 🙁

Just found out that my new 650b (or 27.5" or 27" or whatever it actually is) is ready in the bike shop for me to test ride. I'll be on it at lunch thrashing the pavement trails of central Mcr (as if that's going to tell me anything, though I know a couple of cheeky bits of "off-road" that will help).
It's a Norco Sight Killer B. Had very good reviews from a range of UK and US press.
What interests me is that, other than On-One with the 456, they seem to be the only bike company that I'm aware of, that has produced a bike that changes the length of the chainstays to match the frame size (or in their parlance they change the position of the BB), rather than just extend the front triangle 10mm per size. This seems crucial to me as without that the geometry of the frame (and the position of the rider in relation to it) is fundamentally different for each size. Seems to me to make sense. Bigger frames have bigger wheels and the geometry of each frame is adjusted to ensure that the rider position is correct. Simples 😀

I positively despise my mountain bikes now. I look at them and feel nothing but hatred towards them, with their inferior wheels and overly simple geometry. Make me sick. I'd give them away but who in their right mind would want something with just 26" wheels in this day and age.

Ahhh well, may as well keep 'em.

What interests me is that, other than On-One with the 456, they seem to be the only bike company that I'm aware of, that has produced a bike that changes the length of the chainstays to match the frame size

The lowly Ghost brand do this... I'm sure many others too.

It's a sustained period of dry weather (such as we are enjoying) which brings the trail alive for me. 650b will be dead come the British Winter because those bigger wheels will be clogged with mud and weigh even more than my 26-inchers.

It's a sustained period of dry weather (such as we are enjoying) which brings the trail alive for me. 650b will be dead come the British Winter because those bigger wheels will be clogged with mud and weigh even more than my 26-inchers.

Surely that's entirely dependent on which tyres you use 😉

But that's material for an entirely different thread...

funkrodent - Member

Just found out that my new 650b (or 27.5" or 27" or whatever it actually is) is ready in the bike shop for me to test ride. I'll be on it at lunch thrashing the pavement trails of central Mcr.

What interests me is that, other than On-One with the 456, they seem to be the only bike company that I'm aware of, that has produced a bike that changes the length of the chainstays to match the frame size
The lowly Ghost brand do this... I'm sure many others too.

Fair enough. The more the better I say, just seems to make sense.

In the meantime I have a nailed on excuse for when I fail those really steep climbs due to the front wheel heading skyward 😉

Hmmm I seem to being made out to not know what I'm on about
Well trust me I like my 650b alot and those that have tried one out or own one will back me up

We sold two this morning already
Both admit ably to a couple but still two sales 650b

I love it when a troll gets defensive

Martin (bikeind)

I have worked in bike shops over 25 years well actually all my working life and Saturdays while at school so trust me I know my thing one would say and can hold my own out on the trails

but you bio says

Name martin
About Me Been in the bike industry 20 years now
Location Surrey

I know time flies and that but make up your mind innit.

20, 25, all your life!

Someone's prone to exaggerating.

We sold two this morning already

But that's completely meaningless. You and everyone in the shop are hot and heavy for the format so of course you'll push their sales more.

Question that I've yet to see answered (so feel free to point me in the direction if it has!) is this: if 650b is so good at delivering the best of 26 and 29, then why is it only talked about as killing off the long established 26er and not both wheel sizes?

[IMG] [/IMG]

Hmmm I seem to being made out to not know what I'm on about

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Toasty, that's brilliant 😀

We sold two this morning already
Both admit ably to a couple but still two sales 650b

And that proves what exactly?

a)650b is definitely the only bike to buy now because the couple that purchased were called Atherton.
b)650b is the only size bike you sell so it's Hobson's Choice
c)The purchasers know nothing about bikes and just bought whatever you thrust under their noses as long as it had a nice paint job and a bell.

Feel free to add any other options...

Can you still buy a high end 26" bike though in 2014 spec? Of course he's selling 27.5, unless the buyer wants last years (2013) or a BSO and is too small for a 29er there's nowhere else to go but the trail enlivening mid size wheel route

We sold two this morning already
Both admit ably to a couple but still two sales 650b

So, a couple walk in a bike shop, and say "we want to buy some mountain bikes for our family holidays"... like every other LBS, they push what they have in stock. "Oh, yes, this is just what you want - it has round wheels, and pedals, and a seat. Perfect".

like i can afford to [b]change all my bikes again[/b]
...
op you sound like a pure industry tool.

I love mine I must say really brings the trail alive

[img] [/img]

How long do you keep your trousers on for, op?

Simple equation really

No mind of your own=buy 650b or whatever your told too...

Have some grey matter= Ride what you have !!

🙂

edit.

New bikes with 1cm bigger radius wheels. All you need to feel this radical change is a new frame, forks, wheels, tyres and tubes!

This!

The bike industries use of 650b is essentially doing by force, what 29 failed to do by conviction 🙁

We've not sold any 650b bikes since they came out.
To be fair we are a gift shop.

I think the thread ended there

Ninfan has it right, 29ers failed to take off in the same way they did stateside so 650b seems to be another attempt to generate the sales that didn't come from the 29er 'revolution'....
Thing is, if demand is there for 26 inch parts thrn some enterprising company will cater for the demand and do rather well.... will the big companies then give in to demand and start making 26 inch parts again?
Of course I could be wrong and 650b takes off next year but I have a 456-evo in 26 inch flavour and a Dialled Alpine frame waiting to be built up over the winter....a new bike is potentially years away for me and I suspect I'm not the only one in that position.... to be honest I'm more likely to buy a new road bike before I buy a new MTB.

We're at a point where modern 26 inch bikes are considered 'good enough' and developments like 29ers and 650b are nice to have available but won't revolutionise people's riding in the way disc brakes, slack angles and dropper posts have.

Look at the problems the phone network EE are having trying to sell 4G contracts.... it's not taking off as they'd hoped because current 3G data signals are good enough for most people. Music can be streamed faultlessly, videos are played without buffering.... what are the benefits of 4G again?
Mountain biking is in this position with big wheels, 26 inch wheels do the job, what holds me back is my fitness and lack of skills.... bigger wheels won't change that.
26 inch kit is 'good enough' that I don't want to spend my money on incremental differences or improvements.

funkrodent - Member
Just found out that my new 650b (or 27.5" or 27" or whatever it actually is) is ready in the bike shop for me to test ride. I'll be on it at lunch thrashing the pavement trails of central Mcr (as if that's going to tell me anything, though I know a couple of cheeky bits of "off-road" that will help).
It's a Norco Sight Killer B. Had very good reviews from a range of UK and US press.
What interests me is that, other than On-One with the 456, they seem to be the only bike company that I'm aware of, that has produced a bike that changes the length of the chainstays to match the frame size (or in their parlance they change the position of the BB), rather than just extend the front triangle 10mm per size. This seems crucial to me as without that the geometry of the frame (and the position of the rider in relation to it) is fundamentally different for each size. Seems to me to make sense. Bigger frames have bigger wheels and the geometry of each frame is adjusted to ensure that the rider position is correct. Simples

POSTED 7 HOURS AGO #

I've had a Sight Killer B1 for the last 6 months or so. The best all round bike I've owned, seriously, so I'm pretty sure you won't be disappointed (I've been riding for just over 16 years now so have had a fair few different frames/bikes over that time, for various disciplines, from trials to downhill to xc).
Now, as for how much of it is down to the wheel size, I'm not sure. It does seem to roll over stuff exceptionally well (both up and down), but would a 26" version of it be as much fun, yes I'm sure it would. Would it be quicker, not so sure. Whatever wheel size it's a damn good bike.

Just because a bike/frame is 26"/27.2"/650b/29"/700c etc etc doesn't automatically determine how good it is, there is good and bad frames/bikes in all those wheel categories I'm sure, and far more goes into it than wheel size.
Saying that I've tried a few 29ers and they did feel a little cumbersome for the type of riding I do. But that's specific to my riding and I can see how one would make sense for other types/styles of riding (and probably be quicker). I've got my cx bike for that though 😉
Currently building up a steel hardtail jumpy/4x/f.a.b bike (dialled holeshot), that is of course 26" and I wouldn't want any bigger wheels on it, thats for sure!

I can understand the frustration in the changing standards thing (eg. having to spend money is what it boils down to for most people), but I've been doing this long enough to realise that some of it is definitely for the better (maybe 650b is, maybe it isn't).

Enjoy what you've got and if your in the market for a new bike [b]pick it based on what you want it for/your riding style[/b] not what some 'thinks he knows it all' on the tinternet/works in a bike shop tells you what you need.

😀

Well the comments on here beggars belief really!

Certainly caused a stir in the shop this one

I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

[quote=bikeind ]Well the comments on here beggars belief really!
Certainly caused a stir in the shop this one
I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

Is this a troll machine? Picking random lines and posting them???

bikeind - Member - Quote
Well the comments on here beggars belief really!

Certainly caused a stir in the shop this one

I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

All those trails you are bringing back to life, I'm going to ride them on my 26" bike and kill them. Killing stuff is more fun that making it come alive 🙂

Sounds like you are desperate to sell these as your walk in customers aren't being sucked in by the 2% bigger wheelsize bullshit. Stw is a cynical hive that will be hard to convince that trails will miraculously come to life with wheel diameters many are already riding with bigger tyres. But keep trying, it's amusing to watch a desperate salesman.

I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

Having been in the bike industry for so long you as much as anyone should know there really is no standards, yes there are sizes but they will change as fast as the wind does, take bottom brackets, bb30/pf30/bb386 and that's without the trusty BSA, what did the very early bikes run push fit, industry goes full circle and hails it as new.

As for wheel size, i'm happily sat on a 29er when I'm not on my cross bike (skinny 29er 🙂 )

Just for the record I would ride over a trail made of cats. But I'm not sure what wheel size would be best or furry trails that meow.

Well the comments on here beggars belief really!

Certainly caused a stir in the shop this one

I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

Well, I for one am totally convinced by your argument and would like to revitalise my riding experience by buying into the new standard. Where is your shop so that I can benefit from your obvious expertise and make sure that I get exactly the right bike for my needs?

Where is your shop so that I can benefit from your obvious expertise and make sure that I get exactly the right bike for my needs?

I for one thought that the majority of stw users would be buying into what will be the standard

Top trolling 😀

Seriously though, I'd love to see what the European sales figures were for 29'ers in the big brands over the past couple of years - I'd be willing to bet that those who went 'big' on 29, which was huge in the states (to the point where you couldn't buy a 26) dropped though their arses in european sales.

All I'm worried about is parts. What about newbies? We've gone from 1 wheel size to 3 for MTB. Sounds to me like it's just going to leave a lot of people really confuzzled. What about all the [s]bidet[/s] budget brands - Carrera etc - are they going 650b or 29"? How many tyre choices am I going to have in a few years with 26"*

Also I am basically pissed because I finally built my dream wheels a couple of years ago** and the frickin' things are only going to get more difficult to get tyres for now, esp. cheap ones - cheap things only exist due to volume production and the more "standards" there are the less volume of production of each type OR manufacturers are just going to scale back their range to only include the popular shizzle. Either way I see my options reducing and my wallet taking a pounding [so I won't need to buy that fancy slimline wallet I keep seeing advertised here anyway]

* This also works both ways - what budget tyre for 650b - "I'm just getting into MTB, I love in sweet sweet mountain terrain and the only shop near me sells 3 types of tyre for 29", one Tub and one 26" with a centerline the vicar uses to visit his goats. Woe is meeeeee"

**321 Disc Ceramic, DB Black DT's and Blue Hope Pro2's in 20mm and Bolt-on. Yes I know they weigh about as much as a walrus and I don't care one bit because they will never ever break unless I crash so hard I die. And then I doubt I'll care.

They then BS
us that it is the best of both and due to rider
demand.

This +2

A mate of mine works for a prominent company in the bike industry and sprouted that bullsh#t line above. I asked him who were these thousands of riders who wanted a wheel size they had never ridden and how did they suddenly have influence over a product that didn't exist when the bike industry rarely listens to the consumers! Funnily enough, he didn't really have much of a response.

I was looking at spending around £2500 on a new 26" bike recently, but with many manufacturers changing their wheel size standard I've just decided to buy an old 26" frame from 2008 and save some cash, don't really want to buy a bike i can't get parts for in a few years time if this 650b thing does become the new standard.

Loads of riders are riding 650b now(more or less) and have been for years.. Mahoosive tyres on little rims.
Now there is a wheel that gives you this size as a base rather than stretching a 26er to the limit with balloon tyres. I like the idea of a high volume xc lightweight tyre taking you up to a 28er or running a low profile aggressive knobbly taking me back to a 26er with big boots.

Even my XC race bike has High volume tyres on it now so why would I (or you) be against a bike evolving to this 650b standard.
The bike progresses to what riders have been asking for.. no big change but a new middle ground scenario.

If a company has been flogging bikes with big high volume tyres for half a decade doesn't it make sense that a bike evolves to this standard instead of an elastoplast fix?

650b makes sense to me and I think it will give new options as long as tyre producers play the game.. many other strange standards over the last few years are far worse IMO (mainly because I'm happy wih a 650b type set up on my 26er I suppose)

Interested to see how it pans out (and what we are all riding in 5 or 6 years.)