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Interested to see which people prefer out of the two and why .... along with what sort of terrain you're covering or if you tend to swap them over between more road orientated to more off road rides.
My concern with 650b is I'll be using it 75% road 20% tracks and they're flat gravel tracks with some small / medium stones so nothing majorly challenging and whilst it'd be nice to have the extra volume on the lumpy bits ... not if it means a heavy sacrifice to road speed .... I could put quite wide 45's on the 700 as an alternative.
Longer term I'll probably end up with 2 wheel sets to swap them out easily but I'm about to click the "buy now" for a bike and have the choice of either .... What does everybody else prefer and which way would you go??
Having just a bought a gravel/adventure bike with 650b x 50mm my preference for your type of riding would be 700cc with max 40mm.
The 650bs are great for more tech stuff and rougher surfaces, but if its smooth gravel and tarmac then 700c with narrower tyres would be my preference.
Just in the process of getting a spare,spare* set built up with 650 rims.
Hoping to use them next spring with some big rubber.
*I already have a set with road slicks on.
Having just a bought a gravel/adventure bike with 650b x 50mm my preference for your type of riding would be 700cc with max 40mm.
Must admit this is pretty much where my head is at the moment with 40's probably being the sweet spot, have some 35's which measure 38 on the rim on my 29er and certainly wouldn't want any less than that.
I did a 600km ride in Tuscany in September on 650b/ 48mm Compass tyres. They were absolutely fine - I don't think that they were much slower (if at all) than, say 30mm, tyres but they certainly gave significantly more confidence and comfort on fast mountain descents and also on a day with very heavy rain and a fast descent and then a big push on small back roads to where we planned to stop that night.
Take a look at Jan Heine's blog about tyre size.
I think that probably the sweet spot between rolling resistance, weight, and feel is 42mm - which is partly why we currently have 42mm Rock'n'Road tyres and will be using those for a week's bikepacking in the Harz Mountains next spring.
Yeah,I looked at those Rock'n' Road tyres,interesting pattern.
Got a set of G-One Speeds in the end
The Rock'n'Road are reasonably fast on road, reasonably fast off road - and they go round corners and work in mud. And on comparison with a cycling buddy with G-One's - they spend less time being taken off and on again 😉
75% road 20% tracks and they’re flat gravel tracks with some small / medium stones so nothing majorly challenging and whilst it’d be nice to have the extra volume on the lumpy bits … not if it means a heavy sacrifice to road speed
700x30/32
i think it depends on how bigger clearance your bike can take, mine can take 700x 45c and have been riding either 40c WTB Nano or 45c Riddlers, and on Torino-Nice rally on soe of the really rocky descents i didn't feel the need for anything wider really so haven't bothered with 650b as both tyres roll really well on road too
I've just built a Vagabond* up with 29x2.1
Depends what you want to do, if you're racing then fastest average speed matters, which could be a TT bike and shoulder it through any real off road stuff. If you just want to go for a ride and be comfortable and not crash then there isn't much argument against going as big and as comfortable as possible. I'm not convinced that even a 2.1" MTB tyre is really significantly slower on the road than a CX tyre.
*Picks to follow later, I'm putting the monster in monster cross with all the clashing anoising!
700c
650b was slower everywhere and only marginally better on rougher stuff.
I’m not convinced that even a 2.1″ MTB tyre is really significantly slower on the road than a CX tyre.
Someone who's reasonably fit but doesn't cycle a lot came and joined us a couple of weeks on a MTB and he really, really struggled to keep up and was completely finished at the end of it despite the rest of us going a lot slower than normal rather than leave him way behind.
The following week he'd changed his tyres on his Cannondale Hybrid so they could accommodate the gravel we go over and for the last 4/5 miles he completely destroyed us, I was giving everything to stay with him and you could see he wasn't even trying .... I was absolutely knackered at the end of the ride ... to the extent I#d say like never before.
I would have thought the difference is similar or maybe more from an MTB to a CX although there was an interesting video I saw recently saying gravel bikes are quite a bit quicker than CX bikes.
Just seen my own grammar and I'm appalled ... why on earth did I use apostrophe and an e in your ... hey ho.
Have been having similar internal debates since before I got my Pickenflick. I've only got 700 wheels, currently shod with 47mm (wire bead) Specialized Trigger Sport. They're quite a weighty tyre and seem quite draggy for a shallow treaded pattern, a bit rubbish now off road (mud & mulchy leaves) but great on dry, gravelly descents and the extra volume over the 42c continental tyres I was previously running makes them a little more capable on stony/rocky descents.
For me, the sweet spot for rolling speed, off road ability, and weight, has been 700 x 42mm tyres. Think I will only rarely want to go wider, and since I can go up to 47, see no need for 650 wheels.
For me, the sweet spot for rolling speed, off road ability, and weight, has been 700 x 42mm tyres.
Which ones have you been using??
Continental AT Ride. Quite light. Roll better than they have any right to. Good puncture resistance. As good off road as any tyre with 'only' 4cm width is likely to be.
I've covered around 2000 miles on my arkose over the past year (probably 60% off - 40% road) and I've alternated between 47mm 650b byways and various 700c tyres.
I've settled on 38mms G-Ones in 700c flavour as the best balance for me. The jury is still out about how they'll cope with clag in the depths of winter but so far so good.
I'll probably be selling the 650b wheels and tyres for a bargainous price in the near future.
Tried both 700c with Nano 40mm and 650b with 47mm Byways.
700c Nanos around Wild About Argyle route, 47mm Byways on Torino Nice Rally. Both very similar terrain and distance.
Didn't think there was much difference really so have sold the 650bs and will stick with 700c wheels. My new Fairlight Secan can take upto 48mm x 700c so for summer gravel a 47mm 700c Byway or Horizon would be ideal please WTB
650b was slower everywhere and only marginally better on rougher stuff.
I’ll probably be selling the 650b wheels and tyres for a bargainous price in the near future.
Didn’t think there was much difference really so have sold the 650bs
That's a pretty high percentage to the number of replies so far and not looking overly positive for 650b's ... I guess though it probably depends on just how rough the areas you're going are and if you want to do any single track ... although you'd probably be better off in either of those situations on an MTB anyway.
I run 650b Byways on my Marin Gestalt and they're perfect for my mixed surface commute. I can't say I've noticed any problems on the road and they're certainly more comfy and carry loads more speed over rougher paths than the G-Ones they replaced.
The only disadvantage is that they're a bit finicky with tyre pressures, but once you get that settled they're great. They're also loads easier to set up tubleless….
If you are going to go 650b I really recommend byways - I've ridden down red xc trails with them without any dramas and they roll really well on tarmac too.
In the summer I tried 42c, 38c and 25c tyres. All on the same bike.
42 felt too big and MTB like, 38c was better and I got some of my fastest times on 38c on loops with high % of gravel. However, I prefer the feeling of 25c over the wider tyres (especially on the road) - just feel more responsive and nimble so even though 38c are slightly faster on gravel I have stuck with 25c because I enjoy riding them more.
Sounds like you need to try 32c! 😀
Rivendell Jack Browns (made by panaracer, same as the fancy tyres) on PlanetX are relatively inexpensive. heavier puncture resistant ones (blue), or lighter, more supple, flimsier version (green).
I've been commuting on the blues for 4 months, along with some limit-finding xc rides. Great fun, better than 28s for me, and no punctures!
On the other hand,. I took a 3T carbon jobbie with 2" (? - ish) semi slick -!/2 in slick centre line [Edit: Byways]. Great fun and bloody quick!
I've got some Panaracer Gravel King slicks in 700 x 38mm and they are lightening fast for their size. Weight is 320g (which compares to, say, the 400g for a 35mm Schwalbe G-one)
They handle dry and rocky offroad stuff well and fly on the road, I just wouldn't want to take them over lots of very sharp gravel, or if I did I'd ride delicately.
I've also had 43mm Gravel King SK's and 400m Terrene Elwoods and both are fabulous offroad, although much slower on road then the 38mm GK slicks.
From what I can tell, 47mm 650b tyres are substantially heavier than 40mm 700c tyres, and although I've never tried the former I really can't imagine them rolling significantly better than a good 40mm 700c