[Closed] 650b - feel alittle underwhelmed

i was hunting for the right bike for ages. the small 16x is perfect for me and i'm buying a 14x too 🙂

Mine was the 140 version too, great bike.

Hora, seriously check your front wheel, the tyre is coming off the rim, no wonder 650b has felt 'wierd' recently!

I bought a 27.5 hardtail - a Giant XTC Advanced, so biased towards 'race' rather than the default STW 'hardcore'. To my surprise, it turns out that where it really makes me quicker than my 26" full susser is on fast stuff like Pink Heiffer at CYB.
From this I conclude that you are all overbiked and sales of anything apart from carbon race hardtails should be stopped immediately.

Checked -its part of the graphic. Good job too- on the last bit back towards Hope you hit 35mph+ 😆

**** though- fitting a tyre onto that Tactic rim is HIDEOUS. Matey had a tubeless problem on his i23/Hope wheel yesterday- it took us a couple of minutes in total to get a tube in and pumped up! The SS rim- you'd need to scream at the sky in frustration..then you'd nip the innertube with your lever.

Everyones different and everyone has different feel/quirks/what they 'like'.

I've always liked a shorter cockpit and lower BB. Took me a few years to realise that after taking what a bikeshop said I should ride. This is obviously the opposite when it comes to road bikes.

why not swap to a V3? Buy some 160mm lyriks, stick a spacer in the shock and away you go in 26 inch bliss.

Deviant- I think the angle of the shot along with the top of the gate slant makes it look like its angling downwards towards the back. In the flesh you can't tell when its on the bike.

Worsecase -if I don't get on with 650b/27.5 I'll run 26'er with slightly bigger tyres as it rocks in this format. It bloody rocks in 67.5'er tbh too.

Anyone want to buy an almost new Hope Evo2 40T and Arch rim 650b in almost new condition? 🙁 can also throw in the same age tubeless setup 2.25 Ardent rear tyre.

deviant - Member

Bloody hell Hora!....check your front tyre down at the 'tactic' logo where it meets with the ground in your photo....looks like the tyre is partially off the rim?!?!....I know Tactics are a bugger to get a tyre on but that's ridiculous

Ha, that would explain it then...case closed...next.

hora - member

I've found the frame that I love

Ooh, exciting. What are you getting now?

Ooh, exciting. What are you getting now?

Cheeky bugga. If you want I can let you covet my Ritchey 8)

Everyones different and everyone has different feel/quirks/what they 'like'.

Yeah my brother likes bikes with short cockpits, and he's likely a much better rider than anyone on this forum.

Can't get my head round it personally, he prefers my old mans MK II Nomad to my 2015 Reign - even on high speed steep stuff.

Each to their own, glad you've found something that works Hora. Now stick with the bike and just play around with sag settings to improve turn in etc.

Can someone summarize the 7 pages for me in a few lines please?

Overpaid overbiked underskilled middle age middle class stw members with too much spare time and money trying to blame bikes for their disappointing performance rather than themselves. Just the yooj.

I wouldn't be so sure of that, there are some very good riders hidden on here - Jedi included - who apparently hates 650b as well.

overbiked

Its about [i]feel[/i]

I don't want a bike that smooths out everything. Wheres the fun? I also don't want a bike that makes me go faster. I'm not racing.

I want feel and fun. Not pace and flatten the trail.

If a matey goes balls out and bangs it down a trail to feel like hes KOM/a frustrated world cup racer- all the power to him.

For me though I want to feel/enjoy/have more involvement.

I keep meaning to have a training sesh with Jedi one day. One day I'll get round to it.

i dont think there is any much better fun than racing with, not against, your mates down a dry fast swooping twisty track. it happens a couple of times for me, and each time i have a massive grin.

I was being tongue in cheek. But you should all just stop worrying and ride your bikes 😉

Damn right. Ride hard and fast mofos!

I don't want a bike that smooths out everything. Wheres the fun?

No no no no. Long travel flattens out the obstacles in the trail. This is a bad thing. Bigger wheels roll easily over the obstacles in the trail. This is a good thing.

Honestly Hora, have you not been paying attention?

i dont think there is any much better fun than racing with, not against, your mates down a dry fast swooping twisty track. it happens a couple of times for me, and each time i have a massive grin

Just back from 4 days riding Llandegla, Coed-y-Brenin and Nant-y-Arian with Munqe Chick. Whooping like a 12 year old may have been involved.

I don't subscribe to 'ride 10times and you'll forget about the old wheelsize'. That means you are having to adapt to something that is different to what you particularly like. You are being forced to adapt what makes you work/your skill to something else.

I don't subscribe to 'ride 10times and you'll forget about the old wheelsize'. That means you are having to adapt to something that is different to what you particularly like. You are being forced to adapt what makes you work/your skill to something else.

thats it for me...
tried 27,5 and didn`t liked it..
but still very happy with 26",29+,and 26x4.0 so.... 😀

Its about feel
I don't want a bike that smooths out everything. Wheres the fun? I also don't want a bike that makes me go faster. I'm not racing.
I want feel and fun. Not pace and flatten the trail.
If a matey goes balls out and bangs it down a trail to feel like hes KOM/a frustrated world cup racer- all the power to him.
For me though I want to feel/enjoy/have more involvement.

Tried a Bandit 26 Hora?

I can't understand why people seem to think that people wanting to go as fast as possible are doing so at the expense of fun. Since when is the idea of speed being fun so strange?

I like to go as fast as I can cos it's fun to do so.

There was a Top Gear thing a while ago where they sent a Group 4 escort round the track and then a focus RS road car. The modern focus was much quicker but I don't think the escort managed to keep the front and rear wheel pointing in the same direction at any point on the track.

I know which one I'd rather be driving. Perfect example of fun vs speed.

I put 3" tyres on 24" rims on my Nomad because it's more fun. I'll pay that extra two seconds it takes me to get to the bottom of the hill for the grin factor. And on some of the really tight tracks I ride it's probably quicker.

Going fast without having to do anything/just by hammering the pedals = not much fun

Going fast because you've done a section well and created the speed through good technique = loads of fun

I dont know about anyone else, i got over tarmac hill bombs pretty quickly.

Going fast without having to do anything/just by hammering the pedals = not much fun

Going fast because you've done a section well and created the speed through good technique = loads of fun

Going fast without having to do anything/just by hammering the pedals = not much fun

If you think that's what it's like on a big bike you have no idea how to ride one. That's like complaining a BMW M3 is boring as you do 100 down the M4.

Tbh, i see where you're coming from. I like small wheels with big tyres because it makes it easier to get corners quicker but i pay the price when it comes to very rocky sections where it's easy to lose momentum. I think rocky technical sections are where i'm strongest wheras tight switchbacks and off camber loose turns are where i struggle so i like having a bike that compensates for my weaknesses.

I run non-standard wheels because my bike (2007 nomad) was quite clearly never designed with someone my size (5'6") in mind. Even on the small there is absolutely no standover height and the bottom bracket height makes it feel like trying to bike on stilts. A sensible person would have realised that santa cruz just added a small to their range so that they didn't lose out on market share rather than design a bike that small people can actually use and sold it and bought something else. However, i'm stubborn and decided to reduce the size of the wheels and increase the length of the fork to make it useable and i actually ended up with a pretty fun bike. It does get some funny looks though.

I think the problem is that if a bike wasn't designed with someone your size in mind then you're probably going to have to put up with a design that has been compromised to the point of being an absolute pig to ride. And all the car park test rides in the world aren't going to help. Magazine reviews that bear little relation to reality don't help much either.

100mph on the M4 would see you banned with a couple if miles so I guess its living life on the edge

Dump the brakes, big tyres and suspension then. You don't need much to live on the edge.

Ha, i've got a big bike, certainly know how to ride it, hence why it only gets ridden a few times a year.

Trail bike gets ridden 95% of the time (120mm 29er), on most of the "DH" stuff near me, even stuff like cwncarn (im sure BPW too), im faster and keeping up with fast DH boys on DH bikes on it.

Just take gwin winning chainless, far stiffer suspension than anyone else, ride right, got fastest through the speed trap, in a pedally section (i didn't imagine that right?), won the race too, through riding right.

IE riding right is the fastest, bikes just get you marginal gains.

Though "fun" is a personal preference thing, i personally dont have fun on my MTB unless im doing lots of jumping or having to think about/work at things to do it well, which normally results in it being fast once i've figured it out, ie it being quick is a strong indication i've got it "right".

If you get your buzz from being a passenger, who am i to critique?

We can enjoy different things, it's fine.

IE riding right is the fastest, bikes just get you marginal gains.

Agreed, my cousin is rapid on a drainpipe B1 hardtail with rim brakes.

deanfbm - Member
Trail bike gets ridden 95% of the time (120mm 29er), on most of the "DH" stuff near me, even stuff like cwncarn (im sure BPW too), im faster and keeping up with fast DH boys on DH bikes on it.

I can confirm that the trails most certainly didn't [i]come alive[/i] for me riding a 650b'er 😆

Either they are not the fast DH boys or you need to get you and that bike up into North Wales sharpish in the mornming

My next door neighbours, uncles, mate rides a hardtail and is faster than the top guys on DH bikes. Oh and the fish was this big 😀

yeah I once kept up with Rachel Atherton (for 4 corners dropping about a second a corner - about 9 years ago)

Dump the brakes, big tyres and suspension then. You don't need much to live on the edge

That is exactly what I did for the last few years. I was using a brakeless fixed gear track bike with 24c tyres and riding the exact same routes than I ride on my MTB.
I still haven't beaten most of the times I did on the track bike since moving back to MTB this year.

Why did I move back? Riding the MTB is just more fun...

That is exactly what I did for the last few years. I was using a brakeless fixed gear track bike with 24c tyres and riding the exact same routes than I ride on my MTB.
I still haven't beaten most of the times I did on the track bike since moving back to MTB this year.

Into some epic willy waving territory now

Well, I have different bikes, and they are faster and slower up and down hill pretty much in alignment with what you'd expect according to the stats. So there 🙂

This is so typical singletrack world.
A bunch of middle aged mincers moaning about bikes.

The fast lads are riding there's lmfao.
It hasnt changed, it doesn't matter what aspect of a bike is changed, there are always the singletrackworld officionados, moaning that it doesn't suit them.

A poor workman always blames his tools.

A goodworkman revels and excels with the best tools to hand...

A good workman will excel with what they have.

Yawn 🙄

This is like a sword fight in a sausage factory. Enguard!

Ok, I propose this as the bottom line.

Fast riders are fast.
Slow riders are slow.

Fast riders will be somewhat faster on a bike that's more appropriate for the terrain.

Slow riders will still be mincers on any bike.

Fast riders are fast.
Slow riders [s]are slow[/s] blame their bike.

There fixed it for you.

Should have added that on terrain that warrants a big bike, fast boys on DH bikes leave for for dead when im on the trail bike. Plus the DH near me isn't exactly DH, which means a DH bike is normally the wrong tool and a trail bike is the right tool.

I guess the points i was attempting to get across is doing stuff right gets you 95%ish of your speed, right bike for the job maybe gets you that last 5-10% and that what most people i see out riding/what i imagine a majority of STW think is the right tool for the job, is most probably the wrong tool for the job, typically going on the overkill end of the spectrum, IMO becoming a hindrance.

And I guess most STW'ers wont be grrat riders, some maybe XC/race gods and some trail centre warriors but a rare few that can ride techy smooth.

I dont many stw'ers who would podium in amateur non-XC race. So anyone who claims others are mincers, your claiming you arent overbiked then?

Alll righty-then

doing stuff right gets you 95%ish of your speed, right bike for the job maybe gets you that last 5-10%

That depends entirely on the terrain. A good rider on an XC race bike would probably take twice as long on Ft Bill than on a DH bike. You'd just have to back off.

Anyone care to try it out? 🙂

your claiming you arent overbiked then?

No such thing as overbiked. You ride the bike you want to ride. You can still enjoy it even if you are mincing.

Dean, you make a lot of good points but you fail to consider that a big part of riding well (and thus fast) is having confidence in your ability to execute the moves, confidence that you can balance a bike on the limit and confidence that when you don't get it right you won't immediately hit the floor. Bikes like BMXs are easier to execute moves on whilst bikes like DH bikes are easier to balance on the limit and better at looking after you when you get it wrong.

If you get two riders with similar skills but differing innate confidence the more confident rider will get more out of the shorter travel and less slack bike whilst the less confident rider will benefit more from the bigger bike. I speak from experience as someone who owns two bikes which overlap in character, struggles more with confidence than ability and is quicker on a bike which someone like you would consider overkill for my local trails. Another aspect could be strength vs timing - my timing on the bike isn't as good as I'd like but I'm a fairly strong rider who will get quite physical with his bike, so I can manhandle the bigger bike whilst the travel blurs my temporal imprecision...

I knew I shouldn't have looked at this thread.

[img] [/img]

Ignore the new Reverb dropper cable that I fitted in the carpark (since sorted)..

Back to 26'er

[img] [/img]

I kinda hesitate to do this, but I'm curious: how's it going?

🙂

Been a week, he must have swapped it for something else by now.

Well I decided to swap my forks over to the Marzocchi 350's. They are about 5mm shorter than the Fox's on A2C which surprised me as Mazz always come up quite long don't they? Anyway I thought would it affect the BB/pedal strike combined with 'the wrong sized wheels'? Maybe the 40mm offset (as opposed to the Fox's 44mm) helped as the steering is also a smidge sharper and the bike abit more playful. Different- I prefer it like this. (On faster trails maybe the Fox would be better). I might also retry the different wheelsizes with the Mazz to see how it feels but I'm not really in that much of a rush as I'm enjoying my bike. It feels very much 'in'. I'm not sure it'd work on all bikes or all sizes as designers will prefer higher/lower BB's etc and wheelbases so yours might not work...although it may actually suit your taste more.

If I go to the Alps this Summer I'll definitely take the 650b front though. Its a fantastic 67.5'er. For all day to day trail though- 26'er is spot on.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

The 40mm offset is more 'right' for the 26" wheels than 44mm is. Shorter offset increases trail which slows down steering (like slackening head angle does).

Ah that explains why it feels soo good 8)

I'm surprised the 350 is 5mm shorter I thought they were same length as rock shox and slightly longer than fox.

I just compared the travel of my 150 RS sektor and supposedly 160 350 cr and the 350 only has 2-3 more travel. I need to get something to measure them.

Yep - I didn't break out the ruler but side-by-side it was very obvious that the Fox 160's were a clear almost 10mm heigher. I can't find any A2C measurements online. Very weird, as I said historically Mazz have always come up long for some reason.

^Fair play that descent looks slick!

v666ern - Member
^Fair play that descent looks slick!

The Beast ?

More likely Gores / Lockerbrook

^Fair play that descent looks slick!

It's gritstone, it's much grippier than it looks, even when wet.

[s]Lockerbrook[/s]

bit late

How many rides have you actually done in 650b mode?

Should of just bought a 26er !!

Should of just bought a 26er !!

A 5 spot ?

Hope you don't get here with it 😉
[img] [/img]

What a stupid thing to put on a sign!

yep somebody has got round all the signs in the Redwoods in Rotorua on the quiet 😉 Seems to infuriate those with no sense of humour

ah, it's not official.. thank f.

Should [s]of[/s] have just bought a 26er !!

But you know that would have been wrong in some way too. These bike companies have no idea of what they are doing.

The 350CR 160 27.5 is 547mm A-C. The same Pike is 552mm. I believe the new Fox 36 is shorter than the Pike too.

Haha that sign is brilliant. I recently had an invite on Facebook for a group ride to some new trails that had been built near me, jumps, drops etc . The event organiser stated 'no 29ers'

No idea what sort of stone that is as I ride the same everywhere. All I know is theres a chicken line to my right that I avoid as 26'er wheels handle anything funnily enough and it feels more fun.

'How long did you try the 650b's'?

Long enough not to like how it makes you go quicker at the expense of other aspects and smooths out the trail.

I dont want it to smooth everything out or make things easier to ride. Refer back to my second line of this post.

One day I'll switch to 650b (as Ive bought a decent 650b hope/stans). But not today or anytime soon.

looks like lockermouth?

I'd buy the meta v4 frame off you but I already have one! I'm liking mine with 650b wheels. First ride on it I finally felt like the bike was the right size and proportion for me, helped by the slightly larger wheels. Bb is low enough. Wheelbase is a bit shorter than my last bike but it feels fine. Don't know why you'd want to go back to smaller wheels unless you're about 5 foot tall? Maybe you just like having new stuff?

You don't want wheels to make it easier but a shed load of suspension is fine. Comedy gold.

On that reasoning it'll be even more fun on a Brompton.

MrTrotter it doesnt slow me down nor feel wrong sized. Refer back through and you'll see Im not struggling with the size or fit.

I've echoed my comments on other 650b's that I've tried and test ridden. I don't like how they smooth the trail. I like it lively and fun.

Your post is timely. I think the topic has run its course as people can't read. Some can. Some are too underwhelmed with 650b's like I am.

I've ridden more than one 650b. So stop the size angle. Its feel.

Edit- and Troll Dragon comes along and nails any discussion opportunity shut.

Ciao.

chiefgrooveguru - Member
The 350CR 160 27.5 is 547mm A-C. The same Pike is 552mm. I believe the new Fox 36 is shorter than the Pike too.

Are you sure?

Marzocchi site say 150 350 is 547 and 160 557....

Even I'm not this bad.