OK, useful to know thanks. May well try it to start with as most tyre choices are currently 3.0 or less.
I was out last night with standard 29er skinny tyres and god, I struggled. Maybe I was just having a crap day but I couldn't keep the bike going where I wanted. Wondering if I've got used to the heavier b+ wheels (though I didn't notice any adverse handling when I switched) and now going back to lighter ones is making the bike feel too twitchy...
Riding 4" fat all winter and going back to a 29er does take a bit of conversion time. I'd imagine a similar effect.
Yeah, quite possibly - it was just a bit of a shock since I didn't really notice the switch the other way.
Or I was just riding like a muppet last night...
Yes, I test rode a Solaris with crests on after 8 months of exclusive fat bike riding & it felt like I'd never ridden a bike off road before, absolutely no confidence & cornering was like bambi on ice
I have to echo the above. I spent some time riding with a fat front end last winter and I sold it because it was doing my riding no good.
rOcKeTdOg - Member
Yes, I test rode a Solaris with crests on after 8 months of exclusive fat bike riding & it felt like I'd never ridden a bike off road before, absolutely no confidence & cornering was like bambi on ice
Skill compensators, these fatbikes. 🙂
Compensation welcome here.
The comparison with a 4" 'trail' fatty is interesting, I was pretty close to buying a Canyon Dude before I decided to give b+ a punt. If it works out then I'm £1500 ahead and have got an upgrade in under the wife-radar without triggering n+1 issues.
25mm internal are fine for 2.8" TRs
How would 23mm ones fair? too narrow?
[i]How would 23mm ones fair? too narrow?[/i]
Tough call, it's only 2mm ...
I'm pretty sure you'd be OK for fit-testing and bouncing off the curb, but I would stop there. There has to come a point where the risk of a burp starts to increase dramatically, tho I don't know where that would be.
In the similar vein I once ran Hans Dampfs on Crests but they come up very light-bulby and I decided not to do it again, I stop at 2.3 on Crests now.
honourablegeorge - Member
rOcKeTdOg - Member
Yes, I test rode a Solaris with crests on after 8 months of exclusive fat bike riding & it felt like I'd never ridden a bike off road before, absolutely no confidence & cornering was like bambi on ice
Skill compensators, these fatbikes.
I need all the help I can get
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After trying a bizango frame with 650B+ which worked, but mud clearance was tight I really like the way it felt with TB rear, Purg front. So decided to 'invest' in Stanton Sherpa frame - there is a ton of clearance for the TB on 25mm ID rim - I think could go with a proper wide rim and wider tyre most likely. Either way, I am loving it. The Fox 32 fork fits the purgatory really well because of the shape of the tyre on the 29mm ID front rim. Looks closer in photo than it is - approx 5mm clearance. No rubbing at all. Just loads of grip on rocky rooty descents, very flickable, easy to pick the front end up. Chuffed 😀
3.0 purgatory won't go into revelations forks. It would have a couple of mm each side if it sat centrally.... Which its not atm
daveski1000, that's pretty much the exact bike I wanted to build... very nice
On that, the Suntour Epicon fork I was running before, was surprisingly good, though I added a shim to air chamber to make it more progressive - it's too linear otherwise. Had loads of clearance for the Purg, I can't imagine there's a better 29er fork for 650B+ for fit alone. Performance is another matter of course.
thepodge, thanks - it is so capable, I did a 500m descent on it today that had a bit of everything - rocks, roots, tight switchbacks, fast open singletrack... The confidence it gave was amazing. To add to that, I had the 500m climb at the start - no problems, just grip. Overall, so planted. Maybe finally found a keeper, for a good while at least.
Actually, with some playing I've got 7mm clearance between the fork (revs)and tyre (3.0 purgatory) (shared between both sides) the tyre still isn't perfectly centred and sways a little. It's not ideal ,its just that bulge by the seals.
29" wheels have gone back in for now, going to do the same ride as last Sunday to compare
Actually, with some playing I've got 7mm clearance between the fork (revs)and tyre (3.0 purgatory)
not what I wanted to hear, I was hoping for a little more between the fork legs as that's what I have on my Solaris 🙁
just trawled through the thread and noticed your on 38mm wide rims, is that right alexh?
Yes, 38mm rims.
It's a shame as I think that's a dam good tyre. Well rounded, good side knobs and doesn't self steer
quite big rims then, I was wondering if a narrower rim may help with clearance
A couple of mm maybe but not masses. My understanding is wider rims mostly make the tyre taller, with the sidewalls straighter and less curved, rather than significantly wider.
AFAIK the major advantages of a wider rim are better tyre support so less chance of a burp, and more volume so pressures can be lower.
I really want to try the Purgatory but can't justify £45 just to try.
I'll be running i35's on either Pike or Revs. 7mm at the sidewalls sounds fine. My stooge had the same clearance and it worked fine on my local rides.
What's the chance that the local Specialized concept store will let me try..
For info, I was running a 2.8 TB on a 23mm internal rim. No burping issues running ghetto.
Now on a Dually. Ride wise it's not noticeably different, but the tyre takes on a much squarer profile.
23mm rim...
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/289/19656229373_ada97979de_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/289/19656229373_ada97979de_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/vWXjbr ]IMAG0119[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3720/20282730871_31f3060fac_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3720/20282730871_31f3060fac_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/wUjifp ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
Dually (45mm)...
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/766/22497396485_9d49aba90d_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/766/22497396485_9d49aba90d_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Ah23bi ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5738/22731182501_f778b6ee9f_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5738/22731182501_f778b6ee9f_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/ACFfBF ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
(Not got round to trimming the ghetto tube yet.)
The purgatory has grown a bit too. The only way it will have any clearance to revelations is with a trim to the side knobs.(the carcass size is ok but the side knobs protrude to a point that's exactly where the bulge is) . Being as its now a useless 45 pound tyre to me, I'll probably trim the side knobs, but I'd advise not to buy this for revelation 29" fork.
Nobby nic/ rocket Ron's are due soon in 2.8 from chatting to my lbs
Cokie, that was 7mm shared between both sides. It appears to wobble a bit at present. So 5mm one side and 2mm the other (it's now grown enough to physically touch the fork this am and won't turn) I'll try reseating the tyre and trimming it. I think its a no for revs and pikes.
I think its a no for revs and pikes
bugger 🙁
how was that WTB on the 23mm rim takisawa2?
alexh- thanks for clarifying! Saved me hassle and time.
I'm now wondering what aggressive mud tyre will fit.. a stretched DHR or HRII?
To be honest, putting the 2.8 trailblazer next to my maxxis 2.35 hr2 on flow rims...there wasn't much difference. A good 2.5 dh tyre is probably similar.
Alexh, I'll buy the purgatory off you if you'd sell it as I'm about to buy a new one and it'll fit my rigid fork fine. Email me if so.
You know, this picture cemented somethign I've suspected for a while... We need a slightly bigger rim size 😆 A bigger rim would equalise wheel height with equivalent 29ers and put the tyre in the widest part of the fork. Someone get on the line to the Bike Industry Secret Hideout.
Hey, maybe if 27.5 had actually been halfway inbetween 26 and 29, it'd work better 😉
^ crazy but true.
Nemesis, I've just trimmed a bit off each side of the tyre so no use to you.
Anyway, I'm going back to 29" and testing. If it's unfavourable I'll probably just sell the hope/light bike carbon 38mm rims and tyres I have off.
650 A+ anyone 😉
I'm just waiting on a warranty cassette, then I'll be able to test if a lightly shaved 3.0 purgatory will actually ride. Clearance looks the same as the Trax fatty now (2-3mm) at pinch point. I'll post a photo too.
I think it will spin and work now I'd trimmed the side knob shamfer closer to the casing. Showroom clearance at the pinch points though.
3rd shot is of the un inflated Trax fatty next to the purgatory. Quite similar, but the trax doesn't give a uniform round profile once inflated, which is my gripe with it. I suspect it needs Hugo wide rims to make it more uniform
Mk1 Yelli Screamy, WTB i35 rim, Trailblazer at 15psi - in the stand DS chainstay clearance is in the region 2.75mm (a 2.5mm hex clears with no contact, a 3mm goes through easily but with contact). Clearance on other stays and to seat tube is noticeably more, I didn't measure.
It looks bigger than it sounds, I think it's rideable but I can't ride at the moment.
By eye, the tyre carcass is wider than the tread, and I measured it at about 64mm (2.5 inches) with a tape. '67mm' is embossed on the tyre, that's on a wider rim perhaps.
That will rub I reckon - My lurcher has a bit more clearance than that and the stays showed clearly that they tyres had been rubbing slightly (polishing rather than actually wearing through but it was dry and just one ride - more riding would no doubt eventually start to wear the frame and/or tyres).
It doesn't. Same frame/tyre but a wider rim. No issues in the 100 miles I've done. The pinch point on the frame coincides with the sidewall of the tyre where there is no tread, and holds no debris. There is plenty of room elsewhere where the tyre has tread.
Interesting. I must be more radcore then 😉 (it's the sidewalls, not knobblies that rub on mine too)
How stretchy are these tyres? I hadn't given it any thought til I discovered my Bud has (sort of) adequate clearance at riding pressure but jams solid against the frame at higher pressures. With 25 or 50 psi in normal tyres it doesn't seem to make much difference, like they're already stretched to the max but fatbikes seem to operate in the area where the tyre's still growing, made me wonder if B+ is the same.
There are plenty of cases of the tyres seeming to expand a little if left overnight, etc. Possibly because the pressures are typically lower, the tyre takes a while to fully seat after initial inflation, possibly even needing a ride to get it done fully (Mind you, I inflate to around 40psi when fitting them)
Not ideal for winter then Mattjg.. How are they in the Pikes?
Hoping mine has a bit more clearance. Sounds like there is now way they'll fit the T129 then 😡
ive put an ad for a pair of plus tyres in classifieds if anyone is interested... WTB trailblazer & maxxis chronicle
wtb fits fine with loads of room in rear of a Karate Monkey
I suppose it depends on the type of mud. We don't tend to have a plastic clay here. More of a mudstone that's wet and fine and doesn't stick/clag up.
I've found they haven't stretched much once inflated.
Go careful on pressure seating the plus tyres. The purgatory has a max pressure rating of 20 psi (which I dismissed rather foolishly as absurd). I wasn't sure it was seating correctly and took it to 38psi for a moment. It popped off the rim, showing everything in sealant and deafening me in the process. Lesson learnt on that tyre.
Good point to note 🙂
Well, my 'purgatory' arrived. Problem is it turns out I actually ordered a ground control by mistake 👿
Proper tyre ordered now.
FWIW though the Ground Control 650b 3.0 weighs in at 949g
Not ideal for winter then Mattjg.. How are they in the Pikes?
I think the frame will be OK, proof will be in the riding.
I've no concern re the Pike however I haven't unboxed the second TB, in the hope we (someone else!) find something grippier that works.
Hoping mine has a bit more clearance. Sounds like there is now way they'll fit the T129 then
Dream on. Absolutely no go in the Following too!
It popped off the rim, showing everything in sealant and deafening me in the process
Been there. Rite of passage for every home mechanic. Covered in splurge and hearing weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
So what is the best available front tyre (in terms of cornering grip) that fits in a revelation on a 35mm internal rim?
I'm also pretty unsatisfied with the lack of cornering grip I get with the trailblazer. I'm thinking of running a trailblazer rear, 29er with big tyre front on my solaris!
Ian, I tried that and it worked well. Just looked odd. Steering felt light, nimble and retained the comfort on the rear.
The trax fatty is the best plus front tyre I've found that fits in revs. The purgatory needed a shave to have some clearance but I've not tried it in anger yet. Hopefully the schwalbe 2.8 nobby nic/ 'rr will fit and maybe something from maxxis. They are thin on the ground.
Just seen these mentioned on another thread, another choice of b+ tyre:
http://www.mantel.com/uk/vittoria-bomboloni-tnt-275?gclid=CI7drY_7l8kCFQ26GwodeaAIcw
Doesn't have vittoria's graphine (sp) compound though. I was looking at this at my lbs in their book. No idea what size it actually blows up to. Needs a guinea pig.
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A Spesh Purgatory 3.0 in a Pike 29er fork. The tyre is mounted on a fattie rim, 29mm ID, and is inflated to 20psi.
Sadly the same set up out back on my Enduro is super tight to the driveside chainstay. I could fettle with the dishing of the wheel to give me an even gap but it would still be close and would only be usable in dry conditions.
Well that proves pikes have a good bit more clearance than revs.
@mbnut thx, it's hard to tell from the pic - are you happy that's rideable? Good news if so.
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A better look at it.
I would be happy with it in the dry for sure. Wet, loose mud and say trail centre grit type mud would be fine too I reckon. Sadly I live in a chalk and clay area so that would probably scupper its chances around here.
For the record the tyre comes up very similar in size to the Vee Crown Gem 3.0 i'm running in a 140mm Sektor 29er fork.
I have a Fox 34 that i'd like to try them in as well but that'll have to wait for another day!
Hi mbnut... How would you compare the Purgatory to the Crown Gem?
My Chronicle arrived from Oz. Took 19 days. 120tpi Exo for £36 delivered
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I'm liking the purgatory as a front tyre fitted on a hugo. Held up well in the sticky mud and cleared well last weekend Running WTB TB on the rear 25mm rim which did struggle for grip at times especially when climbing it is on a single speed though so I was standing at times. Thought the TB was great in the summer on the front. Didn't think it would as came up very square on the Hugo but this seemed to help it dig in on corners.
I have noticed if the plus tyre is on a narrow ish rim 25mm it needs a bit more pressure to stop side roll especially on the back. For full affect I would say 30mm or wider is best.
Tool is a high latitude with Maverick SC32 forks.
I was really enjoying the WTB TB tyres (on a Solaris) when it was dry. Not so keen on them in the wet though. I've lost the back end a few times now. Mostly braking into corners (when you are still on the brakes as you start to lean the bike over into the corner). Not lost the front yet, but not exactly feeling secure either.
@sticky what fork are you running the Purgatory on?
> Tool is a high latitude with Maverick SC32 forks.
Edit: Ah got it thx.
Had a bit of time today and a few new tyres to try out for size/volume. I've measured to the carcass in all all cases and height includes the depth of the rim (it was easier that way).
650b+ on a Sun Mulefut rim.
Fat B Nimble - 3.5!!! - 73mm wide, 76mm high - I have tried this but can't remember how it rode, didn't die if that helps.
WTB Trailblazer - 2.8 - 68mm wide, 74mm high - been out in the slop on this today as rear tyre, was ok but did spin out a couple of times.
Duro Crux - 3.5 - 74mm wide, 79mm high - feels heavy in your hand and looks massive, does have very big and square knobs not a million miles away from a dirt wizard.
Chaoyang Big Daay - 3.5 - 72mm wide, 79mm high - feels quite light with pretty small knobs, might be better suited for summer use?
I went out on my El Mariachi in 97.5+ mode this morning, had a Chupacabra on the front which did very well in the mud even though it seemed to clog up very easily. As others have said I do not see how the manufacturers come up with the tyre sizes apart from tossing a coin?
Finally got my purgatory and have it on my 25mm internal rim.
Interestingly the actual tyre carcass is very similar in width to my trailblazers but while the tb knobs don't protrude beyond the carcass, the purgatory ones do significantly and as such they look a lot wider. So that's a carcass width of approx 65mm. With the width including knobs nearer 80mm.
I tried the purgatory in my Reba and it's basically zero clearance. Certainly not rideable.
Thx for info. I measured my Pikes at about 72mm at the pinch point, so no go really. Rats.
Here's hoping the 2.8 Nic comes in.
I remeasured the Purgatory and I reckon it's more like 72 or 73mm including the side knobs.
It seems to sit fine on the 25mm rim which given what appears to be the same size carcass as the TB is no real surprise but I haven't ridden it yet.
I did 27 miles in the slop with the purgatory yesterday. It's an improvement over the trax, but it still doesn't bite enough in the real slop patches. I locked it up on a couple of very steep descents (could have been conditions with lots of leaves).
It doesn't really look like a mud tyre though with aggressive knobs and a large footprint, I'm hoping it'll do the job.
I think the conditions (awful) probably took the gloss off how well it performed.
had a carpark play on an Orbea Loki today, great bike, loads of clearance at the rear for something more nobbly than a chronicle too
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sorry for the stereotypical plaid shirt and beard
Here's my codiene with a purgatory in the front and a trimmed ground control running in the back .Purgatory far superior to the TB i was running and haven't been out with the ground control yet will update when i have.[img][url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/704/22729337997_ee9730cca9_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/704/22729337997_ee9730cca9_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/ACvNiT ]DSC_0845[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/136996011@N06/ ]RYAN KENT[/url], on Flickr[/img]
Things are getting a bit sketchy for the Knard & Trailblazer.
Fab in the summer, but a fair bit of slip' slidin' through the woods yesterday.
Able to drop a few psi from the back now I've built the Dually on.
[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5834/23162331612_3268780222_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5834/23162331612_3268780222_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/BhM1e3 ]Sloppy Wood, Lichfield. Sneaky afternoon amble.[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
Ryu that must be an absolute animal!
ordered a nobby nic 3.0 Snakeskin trailstar. Will get a purgatory as well and work out the best front/rear combo between those and the ground control as a bit bored of having no grip in mud now...
wiggles - Memberordered a nobby nic 3.0 Snakeskin trailstar
From where?
@sticky
What's the clearance like in the back of the high latitude? Do you think it would take a tb on a 30mm rim?
What's the ride like in general? I'd been looking at a Stanton Sherpa but noticed Rutland Cycling have the high latitude for £199.
@Infernocup, Yes I would say the TB would fit on 30mm rim clearance is plenty on the 25mm. I can try and sort some pics out but will be later in the week.
I like the ride but its only had a couple of outings and still tweaking bits. Id check the head angle between the two frames and make sure its slack enough for your style.
mattjg - Member
Thx for info. I measured my Pikes at about 72mm at the pinch point, so no go really. Rats.Here's hoping the 2.8 Nic comes in.
bike-components.de have the 2,8 Nic in Pacestar in stock now, and Merlin have the 3,0 Trailstar.
Would very much like to see a pic of either in a 29" Pike (non boost) if anyone has them.
honourablegeorge - Member
wiggles - Member
ordered a nobby nic 3.0 Snakeskin trailstar
From where
Merlin, not sure how they have any as I work in a bike shop and none of our schwalbe suppliers even have it listed yet!
wiggles - MemberMerlin, not sure how they have any as I work in a bike shop and none of our schwalbe suppliers even have it listed yet!
🙂
Interested to hear how they size up once you get it
