[Closed] 650b+ (and other plus sizes if you like) - rim, tyre, frame, fork combinations,

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3.0 Veetire Crown Gem on a 30mm ID rim in a Sektor fork and a 2.8 Trail Blazer in the back on a 30mm ID rim.

I am going to try a true 2.8 in the back or maybe see if I can squeeze a 3.0 as there is quite a bit of room back there.

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Not the best shots for seeing the clearance but it gives you the idea.

I bet not much gets in your way on that thing!

Hi Matt, pretty sure mines a mk1, bought it second hand but the seller told me it was a 2012 model, so probably built in 2011. Guessing of course. TB fits with a blunt 35 (35mm od) with plenty of room. I'm Guildford based so could meet up if you'd like to take a look. Planning on going to peaslake around 10.30 on Sat 7th. I'll at least have the TB on the rear, even if I've got the hump with the Vee by then!

Rich thanks for getting in touch.

I ride Saturdays, have put 7th in the diary. Can you drop me a mail pls? My mail in profile. You know my first name.

As for wheels I've taken a punt and ordered a set of Hope + i35s (both ends) from justridingalong.com (folks looking at the wheelset deals from other bike companies might want to drop them a line too).

What's up with the Vee?

Side note: my Yelil's been mothballed for a year but I had it back out on Holmbury last night. Such a great frame, glad I kept it.

Mbnut... Thanks for posting...I thought thered be loads of room in the back... Have a RS Pike on front and have ordered some 40mm ID rims - just need to decide on tyres now. Looks like youve got loads of clearance in the front as well... Wonder how Sektors compare to Pikes clearance-wise?

I can pop the wheel in my Pikes and have a look... probably get round to that on Saturday.

Will get some clearance pics to give an idea how it all looks.

That would be fantastic.... Am guessing you like the Singular set up that way - any thoughts? Only done one ride on my frame in 29" guise and having been 100% committed to 650b+ in my head when I bought the frame, I was so impressed by the ride with 29" wheels in there that I'm now wondering

@sheck part of the win here is we get 2 bikes in one, there's a significant difference in the ride with each wheel setup. If you can find a mate with 650b wheels with id 25mm or more (Flow Ex will do), all you need is tyres to try out B+. I've ordered a b+ wheelset but will be keeping my 29s for when I want to cover ground.

While I agree in general and I can't see how bigger, heavier wheels can't be slower, if only a bit, I can't notice any difference in my speed 'covering ground' (ie climbs or non-technical flat) with 29er or my b+ wheels.

Could be you're right. It felt to me as if 29 spun up faster and held speed better on smooth ground, and 29 would still be the smooth track XC racer's choice. But the moment trail crap of any consequence showed up - roots, pebbles etc - the advantage was gone, and the rougher the trail the more applicable was B+. Rolling over, instead of getting hung up on, roots was particularly noticeable.

Maybe 29 felt faster because it was a rougher ride. I didn't measure.

Matt - are you convinced re the B+ size then for the hardtail? The wheels in my QH have been donated to the Prime I picked up from Rich so tempted to go the plus route as replacement. What tyres have you gone for? Can't see the trailblazers being great for getting a wriggle on down the trails in the winter months.

I did my first properly muddy ride on the trailblazers this week and while they're not great on wet roots (though, what really is...), they seemed fine in the mud itself - on the muddy but not rooty trails, I was flying along.

Who sells the ID rims?

> Matt - are you convinced re the B+ size then for the hardtail?

The story is:

I've been thinking about buying a trail-fattie, which to me means 4" tyres and a Bluto. I've been very close to pressing the button on a Canyon Dude or OO Fatty Trail, or even dropping over a couple of grand on a Beargrease.

Then I borrowed my buddy's B+ try out set up which is Flow Ex and Trailblazers and put them on my Yelli Screamy with Pike. It does enough of what I want that I've opted to invest in a b+ wheelset and tyres rather than buy the fattie. It does feel pretty different to 29.

The best way I can describe it is it turns my hardtail into a "softail" and breathes new life into a frame I already like a lot. Another way to describe it is "fat lite". It seems a pretty good option for a true trail hardtail. There's a little bit of pace penalty but a lot of fun upside, and when climbing offroad you get that 'smoothing' feel you also get from a fattie. There's a lot less teeth rattling on the downs.

Convinced? I'd say "convinced enough" to drop 500 on this rather than maybe £2k on a Dude. It's still something of punt but it's not a huge risk, I can sell the parts on without a big loss if it doesn't work out.

I don't have my wheels yet so it's still early days. I do have reservations about the Trailblazers on our grease-muck, Ranmore side. New tyres are coming tho not everything will fit.

I do think this format will stick once people try it out. If I was buying another 29 frame I'd insist it was B+ compatible too.

29 is still going to be flat-out faster, especially for a racer willing to endure the discomfort, and proper fat will win in the snow and the sand, but there is a huge space in the middle where b+ makes a lot of sense.

You're welcome to a go when I get my wheels.

I saw my first 650b+ yesterday they looked much bigger than I'd imagined. They were on a spesh with wtb scrapper rims and some 3.0 tyres. I'm interested in seeing a 29+ too but I'd imagine they would be just too big and cumbersome

@mattjg agree 2 wheelsets is ideal... Was originally thinking 650b+ for summer and/or rockier locations, 29 for the local winter mud fest and/or long distance, however was so impressed with the ride of my new Singular Buzzard frame as 29 am now wondering whether a burly 29er wheelset, with wide rims and Hans Dampfs or similar could be the way to go. Conscious this isn't a Singular Buzzard thread though!

Yeah I have a friend who runs his Buzzard like that, doesn't seem to hold him back. He's not tried b+ yet.

Maybe there's less benefit with a steel frame that has a little give. My Yelli's brill but is a bit harsh in the back.

Interesting. I can see a lot of potential benefit from sticking those wheels in an aggro orientated hardtail. I think the wider rim will make a noticeable difference as well based on previous faffing around with 29+.

You're welcome to a go when I get my wheels.

That would be grand if possible. Bit tied up for the next few weekends but will drop you an email after then.

> Interesting. I can see a lot of potential benefit from sticking those wheels in an aggro orientated hardtail. I think the wider rim will make a noticeable difference as well based on previous faffing around with 29+.

Yes. The more 'trail' the riding style the more benefit, I'm sure.

As for rim width I've recently come to the conclusion narrow rims for rough terrain mountain bikes are a stupid idea. Whatever were we thinking?

However the benefit is more about volume, and therefor lower tyre pressures, than tyre shaping from the rim width itself. Depth helps with volume too - and part of the deal with b+ is the tyres are taller as well as wider.

Mr Derby writes an interesting tale at about narrow rims at http://www.derbyrims.com/wide-rims.html (see "A Brief History").

B+ is significantly different to Flows and 2.4" tyres.

Some non-scientific opinion backing up my purchase here, but it's a forum right?

Rolling down a tarmac road with no input, using my pa on a 26" stumpy with 'normo' tyres as a comparison, the extra drag created by the + tyres was minimal, he was may a metre ahead after about 100m.

So they take a bit more effort to spin up (not a lot, just a couple of mashes on the pedals), but the inertia seems to mostly nullify the drag.

With that carefully controlled experiment in mind, I kept my fat tyres on for an off-road duathlon yesterday, where the bike part was 20k of soft mud, hard mud, stoney gravel, tarmac and grass. Basically I kept pace on everything hard, and any time it went soft or rough, I passed people.

So am now convinced that for at least 6 months of the year the + size is the way forward.

Considering taking it to Afan next month, where I've always used my Spesh Pitch, so I'll see how I fare on the monster fire road climbs and rockier terrain. Hoping well as I'm not convinced on using 2.5" inner tubes if something dreadful happens to a tyre

BTW Matt, I can't seem to send to your email

Used mine on a natural xc trail at the weekend.

I wasn't very happy with the front end grip but at least a comfy ride. I'll be switching back to 29" and doing the same route to compare.

Trailblazer on the rear handled mud well. Trax fatty wasn't impressing me when lent over on the front.

Trailblazer at the front in lots of mud this weekend - pretty slidy really - certainly not a patch on a 29er mud tyre. [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/what-275-plus-tyres-for-wintermud ]My quest for a b+ mud tyre[/url] continues...

Fitted my 650b+ (TB 2.8") wheelset to my new Gryphon.
I'd imagined that since the frame and fork is nominally designed around 29, but can take 29+, that the smaller 650b+ would be a little too small, but after it's first shake down ride, I have to say I'm not that bothered about it. It rides brilliantly, traction is great, and while 29+ tyres are still so spendy, I'm in no rush to buy some just for this frame. (if anyone wants to sell me some 29+ tyres for a good price though... 😉 )

from Singular website:

- Clearance for 2.4" tyres on 35mm rims at rear

- Clearance for a 29x3.0" (29+) tyre on 50mm rim in the fork.

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Nemesis - shwalbe are doing b+ nobby nice now...

Are they a mud tyre? Guess they do look a bit like a Bonty mud

Can't actually find them in any shops though

I can just about remember when my Gryphon was that clean and new, brilliant bikes they seem to be able to cope with anything you can throw at them.

what wheels/tyres do you have in yours jossie?

I'm still bothered that the 2.8 WTB Trailblazers on 30mm internal diameter rims don't corner as well as my 29er 2.4 Ardents do on a 25mm internal rim...

So, the search is on for another front tyre for my 27.5+ to fit in a 29 Reba fork. What do yo suggest?

Too wide for a Reba I think but there's an Aus Ebay Power Seller (came up on the UK site) got some EXO Chronicles silly cheap (29 & 650), hope they're legit!

I keep chopping and changing, started out with skinny 2.2s on some Mavic rims, 29+ front, 29+ front/27.5+ rear and now back on skinnies. Want to try 27.5+ front and back next but not overly impressed with the tyre choice available at the minute, rim wise I have been using Mulefuts and one of those Kris Holm 29er rims, it's very strong but weighs only slightly less than the moon.

it's very strong but weighs only slightly less than the moon.

one reason Im inclined to stick to 650b+ with TBs as these dont weigh much.

Maybe I'll get a chronicle s/h and put it on a normal 20mm rim and see what happens.

I tried a chronicle in a Pacenti dl31 rim (think it's around 25mm internal) and couldn't get it to sit right, but a Knard is fine even though it's meant to be a bit bigger? Maybe a dirt wizard would be better, little bit smaller but pretty draggy in the dry.

there's a guy in the classifieds trying to shift a knard and rabbit hole for £210 which is a bit rich really.

Does the chronicle not like narrow rims then?

Didn't seem to, I did get the bead on equally all the way round the rim but it always felt a bit precarious for some reason.

£210 does see a little high, think Charlie does a new build kit including tyre for around £250.

The Buzzard is currently in a Frankenbike state.

A failed hub has left me with a 26'' rear wheel with a Conti 2.4 Rubber Queen.

It rides better than I would have hoped and is actually great for wheelies...

Great day out in the Autumn sunshine today..... I will try and sort those clearances photos...

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Considering taking it to Afan next month, where I've always used my Spesh Pitch, so I'll see how I fare on the monster fire road climbs and rockier terrain. Hoping well as I'm not convinced on using 2.5" inner tubes if something dreadful happens to a tyre

BTW Matt, I can't seem to send to your email

Rich I bust my collar bone on Saturday so won't be riding with you this weekend. Have a good one.

I took my Nimble 9 on 2.3 tyres to Afan a while ago full of 'hardtails can do anything bravado', and hands up I got pretty shaken up on The Wall, it wasn't the best experience.

But I reckon B+ may well be a different ballgame, a lot of that shaky trailcrap will be mitigated better by soft tyre volume than a shock could. I say give it a go!

MTFU - I'm pretty sure that hardtails at Afan is hardly that extreme 😉

That said, I am quite looking forward to riding a trailcentre on b+ just because I'm really enjoying riding the bike that way.

@Stoner - not silly-cheap, but next day tyres have 29 Chronicles for £55 a pop...ended up getting a pair from them rather than alltricks (think they were a fiver cheaper).

http://nextdaytyres.co.uk/details.aspx/MAXXIS-CHRONICLE-MTB-29/1168

Interesting reading about problems seating on DL31s...grabbed a cheap pair from SS until I get something wider sorted out, will see how/if they go up OK at the weekend. Might finally get the Rooster finished... 🙂

So has anyone actually ridden a Spesh Purgatory b+ 3.0 in sloppy and/or claggy mud? Any good?

Nope but I can confirm that leaning a vee Trax fatty over on some slop was pretty useless.

That purgatory looks interesting

A Butcher-lite would be nice if Spesh are getting into this market. 2.8 ish would probably do.

@Nemesis, not ridden yet, still waiting on the frame, but certainly looks a lot grippier than a trailblazer. Frame is due next week, all the bits ready to go on, so should be able to report soon after

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Literally just got off the phone ordering the same. Not sure if it will fit into a 29" fork...

Thomas George, what's the max width of that? About 75mm?

Trying to work out what tyres to get for my i35's to fit into Revs..
I really want the Purgatory but not sure what the clearance will be like.

thomasgeorge- could you measure the width of your setup please?

Likewise, Purg looks OK, thx for pics, a bit beefier than 29x2.3. If it clears a 29er Pike on an i35 I want one.

Thanks guys - Think I may just take a punt on them since they're reasonably priced (£45 unless anyone's seen better).

How wide/tall is that set up, thomas (and how wide is the rim internal width)?

I've got revs and 38mm rims. I'm a touch worried the bulge may foul the tyre. I'll find out soon enough!

45 pounds from my local spec dealer, much cheaper than the trax fatty

They were 75.2 measured with a digital vernier, and the Derby rims are 40mm external, about 35mm internal. They are on boost size hubs, but I'll see if I can get them in my 29er pikes later, and report back.

That would be great. I suspect they will fit in pikes, maybe not revs though....

Do 2011 revelations have more clearance at the arch than similar age rebas (both pre-black stanchion era forks)?

I'm just building a wtb i35/i29 combo, and have a choice of forks. If the rev would let me use a 3" tyre I'll go with that...

Also, what tape are people using for tubeless for these wide rims. The i35s are huge compared to flows which is as wide as I've gone before...

Thanks thomas.

ian - you're welcome to try out my wheels in your frame/fork though it's maybe a little bit of a trek these days.

I just used standard tape but only for 25mm internal - for wider rims I'd just double it over I reckon.

Clearance at the arch isn't an issue. There is a bulge by the dust seals that's an issue

Yeah, they are the bit's I'm worried about..
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Alexh- mine are in the post. Do you have a set at home you could measure the gap on please?

I'd say the 29er Pike minimum spacing is about 71mm, taken by eye with a tape measure at the top of the DS bump.

(Rats).

Thanks Nemesis - you're down Mendips way now aren't you? I'm just back on the bike after an interesting summer of having cancer and major surgery, so maybe I'll come down and join you for a nightride when I'm a bit more capable of riding without my heart, lungs and legs exploding!

Yep and glad to hear you're on the road to recovery...

I wouldn't worry about pace though I'm not exactly a rocket these days and I'll take any excuse for a break on the climbs 😉

Earlier in the thread I confirmed the purgatory on scraper rims (45mm) doesnt fit in std 29er pikes. Rubs on the bulges when turning due to flex. May work on slightly narrower rims.

Waiting for Rekon+

Balls, I suspect the revs will be worse.

Tyre shaving.......?

Well, I put the wheel in my 29er pikes, albeit not securely, as I had to remove the cap/spacer from the boost hubs, which probably made it sit a few mil higher than it would, but the 3in spesh purgatory did fit, just. Not a lot of room for a mudguard, or any mud build up.
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hmmm

let's face it - that's showroom clearance not trail riding clearance ... you think?

I guess tyre manufacturers are shooting ahead at upcoming B+ forks and ignoring the 29er aftermarket, which seems a bit of an oversight too me, it's 29er riders that are seeding this market.

Looking at these photos the concept seems to be a solution looking for a problem....whats the point of tyres so tightly squeezed into the forks that they'll foul up with mud on the first crappy ride?!

Didnt the last Mega winner do so by playing the conditions and putting 26 inch wheels in his 650b frame/forks for added mud clearance?

I reckon for it to work properly forks would need to have a radical redesign too...at that point things begin to get prohibitively expensive for most people....ditto the rear end of the bike, stays would need to become so wide to allow mud clearance that heel rub would be a common factor on plus sized bikes.

This is a part of MTBing that is just going to pass me by i'm afraid, i've never found myself lacking grip with a 2.5 Super Tacky Maxxis up front....and i've had the bonus of decent mud clearance to boot.
It's interesting to watch the early adopters and maybe this will sort itself out into some kind of affordable mass produced system whereby we all enjoy the supposed benefits of the additional grip on offer.

Still more clearance than the back of my T129 😆 !

I guess tyre manufacturers are shooting ahead at upcoming B+ forks and ignoring the 29er aftermarket,

I had a rabbit hole and knard combination on the front of my Gryphon but it felt quite heavy and slow to get up to speed. It's a much faster bike on some old Crests and a Hans Damph 2.35 at the front but I'm getting a blunt 35 built. That with a Chronicle has been fantastic on the Jones. Will probably stick with the Damph cause the Blunt makes it's footprint look not that far off the Chronicle anyway and it's slightly more speedy. Main thing for me anyway is mud clearance at this time of year. I wonder how some of the clearances shown cope with clag?

Deviant - I think you've mixed y up the point of this thread with the concept of b+ itself. A dedicated b+ frame and fork won't have clearance issues. This thread is about getting it to work in some combinations of 29er frames and forks that already have sufficient clearance.

As posted above, it's clear that the fatter b+ wheels don't suit many existing 29er suspension forks.

On the other hand several other combinations that still offer the benefits of plus size do work without clearance problems.

Thanks Thomas for taking the time to post that up. To be honest that's about the same clearance as the Trax fatty.

Anyone seen the purgatorys online anywhere?

Anyone seen the purgatorys online anywhere?

Lots more on Google- search for 'purgatory 27.5x3.0'

Add Evans to the list.

I think I'm going to get one and only use it with the rigid fork (which has plenty of clearance) rather than with my Reba.

What fork(s) are the b+ 3.0 tyres intended to work with?

Boost models I expect but not certain - as I said previously we're really looking at what existing ones they work on for this thread.

Yep - Boost front axles are 110mm and the forks are wider to give more clearance

Doh.

Cheers Cokie.

I had looked a few weeks back and couldn't find em.

Ordered.

Lets see how they look with the Solaris and the Sawyer.

I will be on two 650b+ bikes by the end of the week.

Cotic Solaris currently running Scrapers and Trailblazers, with an X-Fusion Trace 29er Fork.

Trek Sawyer running Asym i35 and Purgatorys with original rigid forks.

May try combinations of Trailblazers and Purgatorys.

And a Genesis Longitude running 29+.

I am a right chubby f**cker.

OK, so i've pretty much decided to try 650b+. I'm going to get a wheelset that will have dual duties in a rigid inbred 29er + Krampus fork, and a Parkwood with Reba. Both will swap between 29er/650b+ whenever I feel like it. I know some of you have used Superstar 25mm ID rims, are these wide enough? Especially as I plan to use 3.0+ on the front when rigid.

I'd need a wheelset with swappable front axle for both forks, and wondering if light bicycle/ICAN etc. wheelset is easy to get hub spares for, anyone have any experience? I really want SS to hurry up with the Alpine rims/wheelsets as that would be ideal...although i like the idea of a light and stiff carbon wheelset.

[quote=faustus ] I know some of you have used Superstar 25mm ID rims, are these wide enough? Wide enough for what? There's no distinct cut-off to define when 650B becomes B+ . Think of it as a continuum. Whether a 3.0 tyre on a 25mm rim will give you enough +ness to make it worth your while is something only you can really define.

25mm internal are fine for 2.8" TRs. I'm going to be trying them with 3.0 Purgatorys but I expect they'll work. That said I'm sure they'd be better with a wider rim which I may go for eventually.

I read of WTB sending out demos with 25mm rims with Trailblazers, and that's what I tried, it was plenty wide enough to get a significant effect.

A wider rim would give more volume, a taller tyre (I believe) and the option of a lower pressure at, possibly the expense of less clearance and more weight.