prawny - I've seen people run a taper with an external bottom cup in the bizango, but I agree with the clearance, there's plenty with a 2.2 but not sure there's enough room for a 2.4
That was my thinking but...
----------------------------------------
> From:
> Subject: Re: sent from the voodoo website:
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 06:18:19 -0700
> To:
>
> That frame will fit straight steerer only.
>
> Joe
>
> Enviado desde mi eyepad.
>
> > On Jul 8, 2015, at 5:31 AM, matthew wrote:
> >
> > matthew () wrote:
> > Hi, can you confirm if with the correct headset I could fit a taper steerer fork
> > to a Voodoo Bizango. Here is a pic of the specific model / year.
> >
> >> >
> > Thanks.
Having not seen it done first hand I assumed youd struggle to get the taper through the lower neck of the headtube
.
good point, self edited
Now I look like I'm talking to myself
@ Thepodge - This is from a post by clink on this forum a bit (5 months apparently) ago
[img] 
[/img]
@nemesis with a B+ tyre having a bigger contact patch, it should have more grip, so the front would break away first giving the bike a tendency to understeer? Possibly? But I'm just supposing, generally I fall off because I ride straight off the side of the trail and hit something or fall off the top of a berm 😳
Ah well, I've gone for something a bit posher now. Slightly disappointed in Voodoo for giving me incorrect info.
I'm not sure, how much Joe Murray (if it really is him that replies) actually knows. I emailed the address on the website for something ridiculously simple like seat post size and they told me to contact halfords.
Something posher would be a much better bet, but it'll have to do me until the kids move out...
Kind of but do you drift your tyres normally? I'm not convinced that's how it would actually work out.
thepodge - they'd be right if you're talking about using an internal headset which is what the frame is designed for (assuming 44mm semi-integrated) - the Hope headset is a bit of a bodge isn't it so that's probably why they're not aware of it or at least not recommending it.
I Like to think I do, this is how I like top imagine I look
[img] 
[/img]
But I'm afraid I'm more this style
[img] 
[/img]
LOL - and that's the thing - I reckon most of us don't actually drift much at all.
Maybe they don't know about external bottom cups so I'll let them off.
Halfords lease the name and stick it on slightly different bikes to meet price points if I understand correctly so Voodoo US might not know exactly what Voodoo UK seat posts are like.
A few pics of mine...Medium SIR.9.
Knard on a Dually up front, 2.8" TrailBlazer on a cheapo 30mm Alex something (from an Orange Crush) on the rear.
Plenty of room, so will be going for a 27.5 Dually at the rear after the hols.
A Scraper would run too close. Doesn't look like the Blunt is ever going to come back in to stock. 🙁
Ride wise, its great. I'm a big fan of the 29+, works really well.
Running the front at 15, the rear at about 19.
No problem with the lower bottom bracket, I just rotated the EBB the other way. Would love to get the Niner modified to run 29+ (or full fat..) at the back. Some major work involved in that though, so the Chinese carbon 29+/Fatty might be an option after all.
Its such a supple ride.
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/289/19656229373_bef432c52c_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/289/19656229373_bef432c52c_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/vWXjbr ]IMAG0119[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/345/20282731581_6fc14967a0_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/345/20282731581_6fc14967a0_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/wUjisD ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/390/20090572029_28fe673c47_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/390/20090572029_28fe673c47_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/wBkr7V ]IMAG0134[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/393/20088785630_b6701773ae_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/393/20088785630_b6701773ae_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/wBbh5W ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3720/20282730871_de6243f6af_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3720/20282730871_de6243f6af_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/wUjifp ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3751/20250942336_d879fbde4c_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3751/20250942336_d879fbde4c_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/wRvnCd ]IMAG0124[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
OK, got an answer back from SSC on the rims :
Hello the 27MM version of the DS25 is 4 weeks away, and there is a 30mm version of a high end rim in 3 months or so. Plus we will have Alexrim Supera 35 (35 outside 30 inside) in 4 weeks too, DT FR570 coming back instock in a few weeks, loads of choice coming
Canfield Brothers Yelli Screamy MK2 will fit a Scraper/Trailblazer combo.
Pike will fit a Trax Fatty 2.8/Scraper.
I've been told it will also fit a 3.0 Trax Fatty but not tried it myself.
[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3672/19672575293_841fffc6d2_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3672/19672575293_841fffc6d2_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/vYp6fD ]IMGP0458[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/stu-b/ ]multispeedstu[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/416/20299494381_f28d0c61d5_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/416/20299494381_f28d0c61d5_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/wVNdsr ]IMGP0461[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/stu-b/ ]multispeedstu[/url], on Flickr
2Souls Quarter Horse, Santacruz Tallboy LTC and Canfield Nimble 9 will also fit the same combo as above.
Though it's a bit tight on the N9.
Trailblazer fitted to Scraper.
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/396/20122664671_7e116695ed_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/396/20122664671_7e116695ed_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/wEaV9k ]69mm.[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/stu-b/ ]multispeedstu[/url], on Flickr
Edit just measured the Trailblazer again and it's stretched over a few days to 71mm.
Nothing particularly ground breaking from Superstar, I was hoping for a bit more
I would imagine they'll wait until this month's 15% off wheels offer ends before releasing anything new.
So I just ordered a pair of 650b tech 4 wheels with the ds25 rims.
25% off with code tech4aug until Sunday.
That's £140 for the pair!
that's a good price but with a 25 rim I'd feel I was only getting minimal benefits of the whole system
Beat me to it. I've also just ordered a set of DS25's they apparently are releasing a 27mm in 4-6 weeks.
Not sure if this is of interest to anyone but how about some 24+
2007 Santa Cruz Nomad with 3" Halo Contra tyres on 24" 47mm wide Trialtech rims
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
That Canfield looks hilarious fun 😀
I might be happy with minimal benefits tbh.
Want something I can still ride fast and i like what I've read about extra grip and fun.
That nomad looks interesting, maybe that's the future for 26" frames.
Picked my Kona Honzo up today, just need the cash to build some b+ wheels now.
It's not minimal in my view. It significantly changed the ride of my bike. Ymmv of course but I reckon that 25mm works well and at least one person in stw who changed from a wide rim to a 25mm internal one said it didn't make any noticeable difference
Could somebody summerise the difference between 29er vs 650b+ in terms of say speed verses comfort/fun etc?
I've just bought an original blue Swift the same as nemesis' but run it single speed. I use it mainly for fast, XC training rides round my local country park and think it is excellent. What would be the 650b+ pros/cons be in comparison?
That's surprising but good to hear from a financial point as some of the really wide stuff is silly expensive
That nomad looks mint. Like a pedal powered pit bike.
How does it ride?
Forza, for my experience:
Pros
- noticeably better over rough ground, particularly rocky trails
Cons
-heavier - nothing silly but there's definitely extra weight over a normal 29er set up
According to strava at least, there's no significant difference in speed over the trails where I thought it might be slower with the fatter tyres like bridleways, gravel trails. It also seems no slower in climbs. In fact I've set personal records on some climbs recently on it.
How you finding the Trailblazers for durability Nemesis?
I'm pretty much decided on a pair but just a bit concerned they won't be sturdy enough for my usual fast & rocky riding.
Forza, for my experience:Pros
- noticeably better over rough ground, particularly rocky trails
Cons
-heavier - nothing silly but there's definitely extra weight over a normal 29er set up
According to strava at least, there's no significant difference in speed over the trails where I thought it might be slower with the fatter tyres like bridleways, gravel trails. It also seems no slower in climbs. In fact I've set personal records on some climbs recently on it.
Thanks for that nemesis. I'm guessing the speed up climbs might be down to better traction offsetting the drag of the weight. One thing I have read that 650b+ is not good for mud which we do seem to get a fair amount of for a good part of the year. I guess that will be time to go back to skinny 29.
I've only had them a month so too soon to really say on durability but they're not showing any signs of abuse yet despite a reasonable amount of rocks being thrown at them while riding rigid.
Forza, the climbs I'm talking about are non technical so grip isn't an issue. It is noticeable in step climbs that they have a lot more grip.
I haven't really done any really muddy rides on them yet.
OK that's a positive sign.
Which part of the country are you riding out of interest?
Assuming you're in the UK at all.
Mendips so a bit of everything
One more thing nemesis, some people have commented on the drop in BB height going from 29er to 650b+. Have you noticed any issues?
That nomad looks mint. Like a pedal powered pit bike.How does it ride?
Really good fun. It's almost like it was designed to run with a 24" rear wheel. The bottom bracket height is about 14" with 26" wheels so the 24" wheels lowers it to a reasonable height. Cornering feels much better.
Another thing I've noticed is that I get loads of warning if I'm about to lose traction in the corners but I've no idea if that's because of the treads or the size.
I definitely didn't build it for climbing but it's surprisingly capable, especially on technical climbs.
It would be nice if there was some more (or any) tyre options. The tyres weigh in at around 1500g but the rims are only 564g. [url= http://www.freeflowbikes.com/Dirt-Street/Wheels-Tyres/Rims/Inspired/Trialtech-Sport-Lite-24-Rear-Rim-Single-Wall-/ ]Here they are[/url] if anyone's interested.
Who knows, if people decide they want plus size on their 26" frames then we might see more options but I won't be holding my breath. Until then I'll be doing my tyre shopping at the unicycle stores.
Going from my 29 spesh storm control 2.0 tyres to my b+ combo, there's no change in wheel radius. My other 29er with 2.1 or 2 tyres has around 7mm bigger radius.
I certainly haven't noticed any difference on the bike
Can you get 26+ tyres?
That I would assume would go in a 650b frame?
May as well add another size
Had a PlayStation with a trek starches+ yesterday, they look ace!
May I ask a two silly questions:
Let's say you have a 650b frame designed for fat tyres.... (thinking Marin Pine Mountain) and want to enter a local XC race.... would there be any gain in fitting skinnier XC tyres (and possibly rims) to increase speed... or would this lower BB height so much as to make it a daft idea?
Does fitting 650b fat tyres to a 29 frame mean that you are still in effect running 29" tyres?
[quote=andykirk ]
Does fitting 650b fat tyres to a 29 frame mean that you are still in effect running 29" tyres?If you're going from a reasonably large 29er (say a 2.4 Ardent) to a reasonably small B+ tyre (say a 2.8 Trailblazer) then you'll get a drop in BB height and in rolling circumference. Whether or not this is enough to affect you will depend on your riding skills/technique and the terrain you are on.
I've gone from 2.4 Ardents on a 29er hartail frame to a 2.8 trailblazer on the rear and a Trax Fatty 2.8 on the front.
The Trax being a fair bit bigger than the Trailblazer.
I've not noticed the drop in BB height. But I have noticed the slightly lower gearing.
I plan on trying the same wheels and tyres in my Tallboy LTC.
I'm expecting to notice the drop in BB height with this setup as it's a full suss and also has a low BB to start with.
I'm also thinking of fitting 165mm cranks to try and offset this.
I fitted my b+ wheels to my lurcher today. In short it's brilliant and on rocky stuff it was my fear that was the limit way before I reckon the bike would have struggled.
Unfortunately the rear clearance is too close to be something I'd run regularly - approx 3 or 4mm clearance either side to the chainstays but the tyres clearly did rub the stay (only lightly by the looks of it but still) probably when pushing it over into corners.
It was noticeable just picking the bike up that the b+ wheels added a noticeable amount of weight to the bike though it wasn't particularly noticeable actually riding. I'll maybe weigh them at some point.
[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3bDxNMZzTa2hqbii0-s4G_of_SwuHufVx_ocamZBp2s=w1280-h720-no [/img]
[img] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/h-kgbnx4ivmDzUt1lUR8GYQZCnT3wtHQKZNdgSmLuTk=w1280-h720-no [/img]
To the question about BB height, this set up lowers the BB by approx 8mm compared to the 29er wheels I normally use. I didn't notice the difference but as above, if you run bigger 29er tyres normally, you'd see a bigger change.
If there is anyone in the S Yorks / Peak District area with a set of b+ wheels I'd be interested to see if they fit my frame & forks
v9gss - Member
Can you get 26+ tyres?
That I would assume would go in a 650b frame?
May as well add another size
Not many, but yes. See my Dekerf on page 3. 2.75 Dirt Wizard on Stans Hugo.
There's also a 3" Knard, which I'll probably try, as well as some 2.4 tyres which aren't a lot smaller than the DW measured bead to bead eg conti x King. that should come up about 2.7" on the Hugo, and might be a good choice if the tread profile isn't completely messed up by the extra rim width.
nemesis,
Could you possibly clarify what the current set-up is on your Swift?
i.e. Details of wheels/tyres front and back. Also what forks do you have, are they the old Swift or the new wider ones? If they are the new ones what is the widest tyre that you could comfortably fit on the old ones?
Overspokes tried my canfield yelli mk1 with 40mm carbon rims and a 2.8 vee tyres which are a good bit bigger than the wtb 2.8. Clearance was fine. (so great having a shop willing to build stuff, just to see what's possible)
Ive ordered the light bicycle 38mm rims, which arrived a few days ago.
Just waiting for overspokes to re open from hols to build them up.
I thought why not, being as I'd just killed my arch ex rear rim. I'll update when it's done.
Sorry for the slight hijack, can anyone tell me where I can find 2.8 trailblazers? Or what other tyres are as tall without getting too wide? For a Solaris/Reba conversion with LB rims, 30mm internal.
jamcorse - MemberSorry for the slight hijack, can anyone tell me where I can find 2.8 trailblazers? Or what other tyres are as tall without getting too wide? For a Solaris/Reba conversion with LB rims, 30mm internal.
I'm not getting at you jamcorse but I'm always curious why people type queries like that rather than just opening Google and entering "WTB Trailblazer". Hope this helps.
Thanks Forza, now I'm embarrassed as all the shops that came up on my Google were out of stock 😳
Whoopee, now I just need to convert j-bend spoke calculations to straight pull, will do some Google research.
Anyone got a Panaracer Fat B Nimble to work tubeless - they seem slack and fragile.
The Fat B's stretch a fair bit when first inflated - became a few mm wider overnight. They only just fit in the Rev 29er forks now on a Dually 45mm rim. Nice and light though.
Superstar announced a 30mm internal alu rim today.
Might be good for 2.8in b-plus in 29er frames? Wide but not too wide?
I decided to hold off doing it on 25mm rims for now after reading up a bit more, worried about tyres flopping and burping in corners.
30 internal at superstar prices sounds very good
chakaping - MemberSuperstar announced a 30mm internal alu rim today.
Might be good for 2.8in b-plus in 29er frames? Wide but not too wide?
I decided to hold off doing it on 25mm rims for now after reading up a bit more, worried about tyres flopping and burping in corners.
Is that new rim in their list chakaping? I can't seem to see any reference to it on their website. Also, have they said what the cost will be?
Hi, just caught this as you posted!
It's a new rim called the Alpine - look at their FB feed for pics - no price or date yet.
27.5 and 29in versions coming.
In fact I'm feeling kind so I'll embed you a pic in case you're one of those FB refuseniks...
[img] 
?oh=33144616510eab714eb0cb0ad302c42b&oe=566C5ED0[/img]
In fact I'm feeling kind so I'll embed you a pic in case you're one of those FB refuseniks...
I am LOL! Thanks a lot for that chakaping.
Easton Arc 27.5 x 30mm in just at Wiggle (at least, I just got 1 of 2 in stock) and 1 at CRC. I'm going with that in a WTB TB 2.8 rear and the Dually 45mm with Fat B 3.5 on front.
It'd be interesting to hear how you get on with the rear boxelder, you will come back and update us won't you?
3" RoRo
[URL= http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y394/dansipods2/Screen%20Shot%202015-08-28%20at%2014.34.13_zpslc4hmx8w.pn g" target="_blank">
http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y394/dansipods2/Screen%20Shot%202015-08-28%20at%2014.34.13_zpslc4hmx8w.pn g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
And interestingly they're mounted on a new dt swiss 44mm wide rim xm551 based on my beady eye and subsequent google.
Canfield yelli screamy mk1
2.8 vee Trax fatty front, 2.8 wtb rear. 38mm light bicycle carbon rims in dh layup.
Great fun, enjoyed riding it this am in some mud. Doesnt feel any heavier. Much more comfortable to ride.
Not sure on the front tyre/rim combo. Once you get on the side knobs it really grips and pulls the inside of the bars back. Quite an odd feeling that I got used to over time.
Looks like DT Swiss have a new rim offering: (two actually but the 551 sounds good)
http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/eurobike-2015-new-rims-from-dt-swiss/
http://www.actionsports.de/en/dt-swiss-xm-551-black-650b-only-possible-with-black-or-red-dt-pro-lock-nipples-16581?c=557
89 EUR plus shipping
[img] 
[/img]
I'm still holding out for the Superstar ones, well actually I'm still holding out for someone close to get a set that I can borrow & try out for fit as the chainstay doesn't look to have a huge amount of clearance on a 2.25
I'll do you a sketch of my wheel measurements if you like - stoner did it for me and it helped confirm that it'd fit my frame.
Cheers but there seems to be so many different variations in size depending on rim & tyre combo I'm not guessing some might and some might not fit
Well I'm using trailblazers which seem to be a pretty standard choice but if you're set on something else, no worries.
Now I'm wondering if I could get a 26x3.0 tyre in my old Patriot. It has wide rims and tons of clearance... Would it be good I wonder?
Right had fun tonight.
Scraper rims, DT Swiss Comp Spokes on Hope EVO2's with brass nipples. NOt cheap in the end..ouch.
Rear tyre WTB Trailblazer - 2.8inch
Front tyre Spec Purgatory 3inch
Didnt fit on Whyte 829 frame as intended (chain stays weld right in the wrong spot which is a shame),
But DID fit in the Transition Smuggler with quite a lot of room to spare at the back.....All in black looks MEGA!!
Get some pics up then.
Yes, pics please!
Did you ride it, or just look at it 🙂
Here we go.
Ride is great. No noticeable drag. The 3inch front tyre is VERY tight in the pike and has been tweaked again to try and stop it rubbing on the disk side of the fork when really leaning on right hand corners. Rubbing is only buzzing but will need some helitape I think on the top of the fork leg. Loads of clearance in the back for the 2.8TB. Loads of grip this morning on the slightly damp trails and greasy bits I found. Ploughs through mud on the bridleways we crossed. Really impressed. Will be taking it to Afan and BPW in the next couple of weeks...now that will be fun.
[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5660/21168540201_c0035cbb7c_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5660/21168540201_c0035cbb7c_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/yfAiv4 ]photo 1[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/92473379@N08/ ]varifle[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5740/21168534951_235df65269_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5740/21168534951_235df65269_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/yfAgWx ]photo 2[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/92473379@N08/ ]varifle[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/565/21134501856_e33ff9e4fe_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/565/21134501856_e33ff9e4fe_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/yczR63 ]photo 3[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/92473379@N08/ ]varifle[/url], on Flickr
Any chance of measuring the front tyre at the widest point please?
Nice.
So a 3in Purg [i]should[/i] go in a Pike OK if mounted on a slightly narrower rim than the Scraper.
Thanks for the pics!
That's my plan, WTB i35 Asym rims (whenever they start appearing for sale that is) and 3" tyre. You think there's clearance for 3" tyres in the rear?
I've created a 29+/650b+ frankenbike from an El Mariachi, had a couple of little rides and all seems good and was meant to be testing it today until yesterday's stupid slipping lock on grip crash.
Is the Purgatory tyre a 650b size and where did you get it from? Had a quick search but couldn't find anything.
That Smuggler looks normal, nice normal but normal all the same. Like a mountain bike should
No noticeable drag
That's my experience too and definitely different to proper fat bikes where you can definitely feel them slower. My strava times back this up too and I've set PRs on various climbs with b+ wheels.
The extra weight though is undeniably there but whether it makes that much difference is going to be the usual subject of debate.
I think extra weight will depend on what you start from, surely?
I currently ride 2,100g wheels with tyres around 900g on my FS 29er.
There was very little weight difference for mine. Carbon rims and shorter spokes offset against the old, plus I was running pretty tough tyres in 2.35/2.4 on the 29" anyways
That 3.0 tyre looks pretty close to the fork, shame as it looks a nice tyre profile. I'm looking for another 2.8 for the front that's more uniform than the Trax fatty as it self steers too much for me. The trailblazer is really only about 2.6 wide.
Smuggler looks good
Good info cheers Alex, do you think the Vee tyre would be different on a narrower rim, with a more rounded profile?
