Having to replace my large Santa Cruz Bronson MK1 due to a theft. It apparently had a reach of 435mm. Had a car park test of an XL bike that had a reach of 500mm and was 29er Vs the 27.5 Bronson. It felt good and not to big, but is obviously a lot longer. I don't think I am going to be able to get a proper test ride due to covid. So any thoughts on a 65mm longer reach plus 29er. It feels a big step. Most of tye other bikes I am looking at are around 470mm reach
Am I pushing it a bit far? This is a trail bike rather than enduro and I don't smash down big mountain trails that often. Right now it is south and north downs single-track. Alps trips and Wales, peaks etc maybe once or twice a year.
What's the ETT on it?
At your height, for a modern geo bike I'd want maybe 480-490mm reach so you're not that far away from that - at 6ft 3in my 29er is 510mm reach, 660mm ETT.
What’s the seat tube angle?
I’m 5’9” - hardtail is 465mm reach and a 75 STA. Reach on hardtails increases with sag, and reduces on FS bike with sag. I had a long term shot of a (medium) FS bike with 480mm reach and 76.5 STA which was a good fit. Awaiting a large Sentinel which has 475mm reach and an effective STA of approx 76.something depending on saddle height.
All very personal, but I suspect if I was your height, I’d want something in the 490-500 range with a 76ish STA.
Older SCB had short reach and slack STA - newer ones less so, but still relatively conservative.
Old bike was EFT of 610 and sta of 73. New bike is 649, sta of 77.
Wheelbase is 9.5cm longer as well. I am worried that it might be a handful on corners and will be hard work
Yeah, steeper seat angle means a shorter ETT even with a longer reach, so it'll feel similar when pedalling. Once you're out the saddle, you'll gain the benefit of extra reach, but also be aware if it's particularly slack that'll also increase the wheelbase and make it feel more like an enduro rig to smash things with vs a nimble handling trail bike.
Reach is just one thing out of many that matter.
Starling murmur here with 500 reach and 30mm stem.
I'm 5:10
Feels perfect for me.
It's not super slack, I had it built at 66 degrees so I don't feel like I have to be really conscious of weighting the front the way I would if it was a few degrees slacker.
Head angle of the new bike is 66. I think it is the jump to longer reach abs 29er that is worrying me. I do a fair amount of woody single-track, not steep or techy, with roots etc rather than Rocky trails. Does a longer reach slow the bike down?
I do a fair amount of woody single-track, not steep or techy, with roots etc rather than Rocky trails. Does a longer reach slow the bike down?
The new bronson might be a little overkill for those trails, its hard to say as its really a preference!
The loner reach wont slow the bike down, the longer wheelbase overall will have a calming effect as the longer wheelbase is more stable.
I'm 6'1 and on a bike with 511 reach and love it.
I think you probably need to find a way to try one on a longer ride & get some adaption time.
As someone who is 6'1" I have tried bikes that big, and slightly bigger & yet come back to something around the 480mm reach (although it's not easy to isolate a single measurement).
I'm consistently quicker on the smaller bike (although hardly small in reality) & have more fun.
Will try and get a proper test but will be tricky. Not going for the new Bronson as it is overkill for me . Looking at 130/140mm bikes. So the 5010, Whyte t140, orbea Occam (this tye XL, all the rest I can get in large), orange 5 Evo.
I'm 6ft 1" with long arms and a 459mm reach on my Reign. 50mm stem. I'd like to try something a bit longer, but it really does come down to how it feels. The big numbers aren't everything.
I did a similar change last year. Perhaps even bigger jump. From a blur 4x (26er, reach 420, ett 604 ha 66.5 sa 71.5 wheelbase 1136) to a 29er with 487 reach 643 ett 1263 wb and 76 sa, 64 ha. Immediate difference in feel- so much more stable. Just wants to go in a straight line all the time. Bigger steering inputs required. More composed. Less likely to crash. Faster. Better on steep downhills. Better climber too.
Now if I ride the old bike it’s as twitchy as anything and frankly scary. More fun? Maybe but not in a good way.
I’m 1.81m on a good day.
I’m not sure if 500 reach really would feel too much, but if a L is available with bit less reach and shorter seat tube it might be easier to handle. I would choose a seat tube around 460-460 as that allows a 170-180 dropper. Had an xl hardtail with 500 seat tube and 435 reach. Felt horrid not because it was too short but because I couldn’t get low enough.
Will try and get a proper test but will be tricky. Not going for the new Bronson as it is overkill for me . Looking at 130/140mm bikes. So the 5010, Whyte t140, orbea Occam (this tye XL, all the rest I can get in large), orange 5 Evo.
500mm reach sounds quite long at 5’11 but it depends what you like / your body proportions. I’m 5’9 and found the ML size enduro bike I had for almost 3 years a touch long (481mm reach). I’d have thought it would be the perfect length for someone 5’11.
You could add the Bird Aether 9C to that list as a playful 29er trail bike (or 7 if you are happy with 650b wheels) - might also be easier to test ride and they do an ML or L that would probably fit you. If you’re also considering 29er then also the Tallboy/ Hightower from SC.
Having ridden the model 5010 before the one you’re looking at it was pretty playful but I thought the headangle felt a bit steep (think it was in ‘high’ on the flip chip). I was riding it back to back with my Aether 7 which has a 65 degree headangle. On the flatter trails the 5010 was more fun I’d say but as soon as it got a bit steeper I thought it felt a bit nervous vs the Aether. Both had basically the same reach, chainstay length and length of stem. The 5010 pedals brilliantly on the flat / uphill though - with a slackset it would be almost the perfect trail bike for me.
Rather than focus on your height, how long are your arms and/or upper body vs legs.
I'm taller than you, but short in the arms, with 485mm reach on my Cotic Flaremax in large.
I've ridden the new version Flaremax and the 505mm XL felt better with a 10mm shorter stem, I reckon it was due to the steeper seat tube.
Longer/lower/slacker bikes do feel a bit lazier, but then I find I can go down steeper stuff on them. WinWIn
Just checked on geometry geeks. Xl occam has 508 seat tube? I’d say that’s too tall for you unless you’ve got really long legs and short body. It would be too big for me for sure. You need a large
I think i might have long legs as it had a 170mm dropper and it was not slammed on the collar.
On the 5010 I was thinking of running the fork at 140 in order to slacken off slightly and raising the BB! The BB is already 12mm lower than the Bronson and I get enough pedal strikes! ( I know some of that is technique!)
It seems so much if it is down to preference and riding style. Think I might play it a bit safe and get a shorter bike. Will look at the bird
So the 5010, Whyte t140, orbea Occam (this tye XL, all the rest I can get in large), orange 5 Evo.
No Tallboy?
When I went for the bike with 511 reach, I got the bike so I could enjoy the places/terrain I want to ride but felt my current bike with 465 made it difficult. I am happy that I wont be able to ride a trail centre and get a KOM uphill or downhill, but when I ride somewhere rough, steep and fast the 511 bike comes alive and I love it! Its made me visit more of those places in a few months than I have in the last year or so.
Almost confirming that size is a preference you've got 3 people posting who are all 6'1 but all ride bikes with diff reaches! 511, 480 & 459!
Maybe the question for you should be, what do you want to ride and how do you want to ride it?
Yep you must have longer legs than me. My hardtail has a 450 seat tube and there is about 25mm below the collar of a 180 one up dropper...
So ignore me!
Kind of want a 27.5, the Occam was just what the local shop have! Tye rest will be online purchases.
Sadly tye days of heading off for weekends somewhere exciting to ride are long gone. So want a bike that is ok for south downs type xc, fun on woody single track, can tackle proper rides and be ok for the occasional Alps trip (family allowing). So I want it all! But 90% of riding will be local bridleways with woody single-track. So I think shorter might be better.
All very personal, but I suspect if I was your height, I’d want something in the 490-500 range with a 76ish STA.
I'm 182cm. I agree with the above.
Existing HT is 493mm reach with a 76.5° ST.
You're right on what would be my personal limit and you're a touch shorter.
Thanks all, interesting to see what everyone is riding numbers wise. I guess that is part of the problem, numbers only tell you part of the story. But have to start somewhere. Lack of bikes and options for test riding are a problem right now!
I was thinking shorter now I starting to go the other way. I also have weird desire to go back to a hardtail which confusing the picture as well.
Hardtails you probably want a shorter reach on than an fs (as long as the manufacturers of both are quoting static angles) - as the reach extends under fork sag on a ht. The same doesn’t apply with an FS.
650b trail fs’ a mate and I put together earlier into the year were:
Aether 7 (I have this one and it’s one of the slacker / longer bikes on this category but with short chainstays so it’s still pretty easy to manual etc)
Last gen alumnium Transition Scout (if you can find one) - the pale blue is lovely and it was between this and the Aether at the start of 2020 for me
SC 5010 - mate bought this - it’s the 2019 model before they switched to the lower style linkage
Whyte T140 - although I don’t like how they look tbh
Nukeproof Reactor 275 - I decided the frame was too expensive frame only for alloy for me
Cotic Flare - I wrote this off as expensive / bit heavy but lots of people love Cotic so they must be fun to ride
Evil Calling - too expensive for me and the seat tube height was a bit too high for my mate on the size he’d want for the reach- love the look of them though
Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt (bit more on the xc / down country end I think)
Personally I wouldn’t buy an orange as I know a few people who have them and have cracked swing arms.
Another one to consider is Ripley V4 am 181cm tall with long torso & riding an XL 500mm reach with 40mm stem & 140mm fork. Could have gone large ride in woods in Kent & Friston
Cotic Flare – I wrote this off as expensive / bit heavy but lots of people love Cotic so they must be fun to ride
About a 1lb.
It’s about 40mm longer than I’d ride and I’m the same height. But if you have short legs and thus a long body, and ride faster straighter rougher trails it could work, as long as your arms aren’t too short. If you have long legs then I think it’ll be a size (or two) too big.
Went for a shorter bike, so will find out soon if I made a mistake! Still 30mm longer than my current bike. So a step towards a longer set up.
What have you gone for?
Santa Cruz 5010, V3 in large. So 460 reach. So a lot more conservative but I think it will be quiet a lot longer for me compared to the old one. Will find out soon.
