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Just curious, did 506w for 3 min and nearly died (on an exercise bike). No hills or suitable straights to do it around here on the road unfortunately, a turbo trainer is tempting however..
Figure a bigger rider like van der poel might pull it off? Or perhaps an endurance track sprinter?
I reckon it wouldn’t trouble anyone paid to ride a bike, and a fair few who aren’t. For hours, rather than minutes.
All the time, doing it now. Whilst sipping a Martini.
What's that in W/kg?
Serge Pauwels did perhaps 470 watts at 64 kg..
Listening to magnus backstedt casually throw his old numbers out in commentary on Eurosport is astonishing. He’d be knackered in the alps but on flatish roads he was doing 500w for 20m and his 3-4 min attacks were 800w or something. 🤯
I stand, sort of, corrected. Wiggins apparently averaged 440watts over his hour record.
Magnus Backstedt claimed 535 watts for 20 minutes which is really nuts https://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/350313-wattage-backstedt-2.html
Only the one time and it was on a climb, which always over-estimates the power for me. Around 6.5w/kg. Not sure I’d get close on a trainer or want to even try. I’ve done plenty of 450-500w 5 minutes though so I would have thought that 500w wouldn’t be hard for any decent hill climbers or racers.
Bear in mind that Serge Pauwels profile is during a 127km stage not just a 3min. effort.
To be clear I don’t have one 500w effort in me but i understand it’s not the ability to do one which is exceptional it’s the ability to recover very quickly and do 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. in a race situation which sets MVDP apart as a bit of a freak. Others can put out more but not repeat it close together.
(on an exercise bike)
I'd say it was a fairly tall order for mere mortals.
I did go off and check zwiftpower. Most of the top riders were high 400s for 5 minutes but didn't see any with 20W of 500.
A friend of mine is a continental pro for Ribble. Fairly handy on the hills. He was 8th at the Nationals and must be 75ish Kg.
I checked some of his number and he has 476W for a 6minute climb.
Nearly. Think it was a 445w average over a 4’58” timed hillclimb. Usual club format of a 35 mile loop before then PIN numbers on and timed hillclimb for end of season.
I’d say there’s plenty of club riders who could do it. Wasn’t pleasant.
Data from crank pm.
About 20 seconds for me 😥
Here's a lad under 90 kg that did it!
Just the once ~13 months ago, when my 4iiii's battery was practically dead and decided I did a world class ride. 😆
Apparently I've done 400w for 5 minutes. 500w is just obscene.
Next question, anyone under 80 kg done it ;p
Andrew Coggan's chart any good?
It depends what you mean by 'watt' and 'minute'.
That’s a very interesting chart! I don’t ride road bikes but I commute on my Levo which apparently has quite a good power meter built in, if I bother to connect the app. Will have to see how good/bad a pedaller I am, in a more objective way.
W/Kg chart doesn't scale properly with weight, heavier riders are at a disadvantage.
Think a 100 kg rider could do 760 watts (7.6 watts pr kg) for 5 minutes? No I don't think any human has done that and if such a human existed it would win the tour easily.
Also such a 100 kg rider would have an FTP of 608 watts, this would enable them to average 67 km/h in a time trial at 2560 mos.
A 60 kg rider doing 456 watts for 5 minutes however? Definitely.
450w for 5 min on the flat was my pb at 72 kg. Nearly killed me and I needed a couple of days off...
That's impressive.
The chart may not scale well but realistically someone 100kg is not in the right ball park.
I was 82kg. My ftp that year was 335w.
I way for me. That’s right in my weak spot of my power profile. My PB puts me in the “good” spot. That was recorded a while ago though, as my current 20 min power is only 20w lower, so maybe if I tried again I’d improve.
Good chart but can we see the rest of it please...there seem to be a couple of rows missing 😂
My FTP is around 4.25W/kg at 72kg and I can do about 3mins at 500W or 5mins at 375-390W. My average across a 2-3hour ride is 225W.
500W for 5 mins would be a killer for me. I’d need a lung transplant at around 3.5mins.
Looking back at my old rides I managed 425W for 5min back in 2017. This year my best is 405W. Interesting though due to my weight loss this year my W/KG for 5min is better in 2020. 5.3 as opposed to 4.94. So I’m guessing I’d be quicker uphill with the new me compared to the old fatty bum bum me. I really need to train more doing V02 efforts more though, being a Diesel engined long distance TT’r I don’t do enough short, sharp intervals.
5.53W/kg according to Strava. Not convinced by that chart.
Are you saying your FTP is 5.53W/kg @Flaperon? >400W output for an hour? Impressive if true.
No, 5.53W/kg for five minutes 😭
No idea what I put out. Strava thinks 230w on a climb. So not 500w
700w for a few min.
Same as a toaster!
That's 700w or a bit less for 1 minute no? I've done 745w for 1 minute on the road and 904w on an echo bike. Show me someone who can do 1000w for 1 minute..
The KWh they stated suggests he did 3 min (correction, bit under 2). Not sure a sprinter was quite the best man for the job - I wonder what that sky/ineos TTer (or anyone else who's been a pursuiter) boshes out for 5 minutes
Ah yes so 700W for 1 min 48 seconds - that's something, but yeah probably not the best man for the job.
360w for 5m, can hold 500w for about a minute and a half so it’s safe to say I’ve got no hope of managing that!
My best's are something like 606w for 1 minute and 389w for 5 minutes, from about 5 years ago when I paid a lot more attention to my numbers and actually trained, thats with a 20 min best of about 312w.
Peak power was around 1320w IIRC and did 5 second max of about 1100w.
Those values got me to 2nd cat, winning 4 out of the 5 crits I entered that season, including a 2/3/4. I didnt get any top 10's in road races though, always survived the cut but tended to dip out on the final climb. Thats all at about 72kg.
I reckon I know a couple who could do 500w for 5 mins, but they are big guys. On the return to Pollenca last year it felt like I did 500w for 5 minutes just trying to sit on the wheel of one guy!
506w for 3 minutes is seriously good too, assuming of course your exercise bike is accurate, which is a big assumption.
Can you translate for those of us who aren't roadies? How much is 500 watts in football pitches?
I see the fastest time up the Alpe du Zwift is 28mins at 503W.
Personally I’d be happy to do 500W for 28seconds.
It's prob quite rare, even amongst pros. On the one hand, if strong amateurs can dish out 400+ for 5 mins then obviously some pros can do 500, given the geometric progression in ability as you go up the levels.
But to do this raw wattage you'd need to be a big strong man and almost all pros are sub 80 kg. Stijn VDB and Taylor Phinney are low 80s and look(ed) like giants in the peloton. Outside of the velodrome it might be an unusual physiology to see in road racing.
Pros average surprisingly normal power outputs when riding in the bunch on stage races. In fact, you would be surprised how low and would likely be able to achieve that with club-level road fitness. What they can do is 1) recover daily, 2) turn it up when the road goes up. A few can really turn it up in the last 500m.
I'm a diesel. 200W. 12hr is my best (2.9 W/kg when race trim). I have little top end and can't sprint to save my life!
Can you translate for those of us who aren’t roadies? How much is 500 watts in football pitches?
I don't know anything about football but in biking terms 500W for anything longer than a minute is absolutely hauling and I think there is some dodgy calibration going on with some of the posts above. I did a lab test (ramp test) a long time ago at peak fitness and managed 484W, peaking just over 500W for the last minute which is ignored in that test. At the time I had FTP of around 350W and although of course a heavier rider than my 63kg would produce more power, I would be surprised if there are more than a handful of riders in the country who can manage 500W for 3 mins and certainly not for 5 mins.
For comparison just over 500W for 3 mins will win you the national hill climb championships https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/dan-evans-national-championship-hill-climb-2014-strava-ride-141454
An absolute machine like Filippo Ganna will manage 500W for 10 minutes but his power output is on a different level to even most of the other pros https://www.strava.com/activities/3567142726/analysis/5290/5871
Nowhere near, according to the "gospel" that is Zwift Power I'm on 310W for 5 mins and only a bit less in reality at 272W for 20mins, but my 60min power isn't much less than my 20min power, guess that's why I've been OK at 12 & 24hr stuff previously. FYI I'm 78kg at the mo and down to 74kg in race mode.
For comparison just over 500W for 3 mins will win you the national hill climb championships
Not if you weigh 95+kg it won't. Wattage is pretty meaningless it's W/kg that matters as soon as the road is anything other than flat.
I see the fastest time up the Alpe du Zwift is 28mins at 503W.
But it's not by people verified on zwiftpower? so it doesn't count IMO. Not sure how much faith id put into those results, could have hacked trainers, use trainers that give watts too easily etc. I haven't seen anyone getting close to those numbers on zwiftpower and we're looking at the top guys up to 100 kg.
An absolute machine like Filippo Ganna will manage 500W for 10 minutes but his power output is on a different level to even most of the other pros https://www.strava.com/activities/3567142726/analysis/5290/5871
/blockquote>525 watts for 13 minutes actually, beast.
Not if you weigh 95+kg it won’t. Wattage is pretty meaningless it’s W/kg that matters as soon as the road is anything other than flat.
True. I meant it as an example of how hard 500W is, for the previous poster who asked for a football pitches measurement, and it's true that a pro level 85kg rider wouldn't find it so intense, but it's still out of reach for almost everyone whatever their weight.
500W for anything longer than a minute is absolutely hauling
Quoted for truth. I can't even do it for a minute (65kg).
Sounds like a ridiculously high figure to me, and I'd be very impressed if any non-professional could achieve that.
Apart from Daffy, who must put out those kind of figures on his commutes, obvs.
😉
500W for anything longer than a minute is absolutely hauling
Quoted for truth. I can’t even do it for a minute (65kg).
If Wattbikes are accurate, I could maybe hold it for five seconds or so.
I have managed 450w for one minute, 323w for 5 minutes. I think my power curve is quite flat though. I am aiming to hit a 300w ftp - I don’t think I am for off. There is a dip in my power curve at about 18.5 mins which means a bit more endurance and I should make it (in theory).
Couldn’t imagine doing 500w for 5 mins!
In recent years 502 is my one minute best, 365 my peak 5 min. 68-73kg depending on beer. Not that close to those numbers this year...349w peak 5 min and about 450w peak 1 min
Around 500W for 5 minutes for the British Hill climb champ at 65kg just messing around for the cameras
Slightly longer segment with a bit of flat at the top and Feather did it at 462W for a little over 6 minutes.
https://www.strava.com/segments/1393060
So anyone here who isn't porky and reckons they have a 500W 5 min CP should be right up there with the National best
My 5 min CP is 4.5W/kg which Coggan's chart has me as "Good" (which is consistent with my FTP but my 1 min CP is way off) and I can tell you that is not anywhere near 500W even at a higher than average weight 🙂
My numbers are super flat - 400W for 1 min and 300W for 20min. Not even held 500W for 15 secs.
Need to work on my strength! 63kg weakling ;p
I surprised myself in April, up the final nasty little incline I sometimes do on the road bike, often the way I come home from work too on the commuter because I'm sadistic. Easily my best 60-75sec power of the last few years, 578W scaling down to 503W (7.5 to 6.6 W/Kg at the time), 500W+ 1min efforts are definitely not my forte!
https://www.strava.com/activities/3347515536/overview
Checking my intervals.icu my PB 5min is 482, but it was 502 for about 3m50. I was about 75 at the time. My power trails off pretty quickly though; down to around 340-350 threshold. That's on about 4-6hrs a week on avg?
As a student I could do 400W for 8 mins, it was a standard test (and not a particularly impressive number, plenty could do better). On a rowing machine (2500m on a CII erg), which may or may not be easier/harder than cycling but I'd expect about the same.
30+ years later quite pleased to be not all that far off at 350 for 8 mins cycling. And I'm 5kg lighter.
I reckon if I was sensible (not going OVER 500W) I could hold 500w for a minute..
Will see as on zwift currently...
Just doing a workout.. Will try after..
DrP
Edit...Ok... about 520w for the 30 second free ride section... yeah... a min will be tough!
According to Strava my best for 500w this year was 1:37 at 71kg, the climb ran out (and I started much higher than 500) so maybe I could have done a little longer at a steadier pace but 5 minutes is insane! FTP is about 300w for what it's worth.
Can you translate for those of us who aren’t roadies? How much is 500 watts in football pitches?
It's approximately the weight of an adult elephant.
@DrP - should be easy for you, just use the ‘other power meter’ that takes you up the epic KOM in 5 mins
Going back to the Coggan's chart, a straight line across would be a theoretical all-rounder. In fact real riders can't read straight across, your performance moves around in the rows depending on your particular strengths. Power Profiling
So it is possible for say a track sprinter to have a power output near the top of the left hand column but lower down for the longer durations. That's why yohandsome's 700W for 5 minutes guy couldn't win the TdF.
The correct use of the chart is to test yourself for each of those durations to find your own profile which then tends to indicate where your strengths lie (if you don't already know).
I can't do it these days, but looking at my notes, my best 5 minute power was 481 Watts, which was about 7W/kg. I only really took notes of (not tested) 5 minute power during the hill climb season though, which is when I was lightest.
Someone won a Zwift race I was on recently with an average power of something like 360W. Impressive, but he was listed as 105kg. If you're all muscle then you will be producing big numbers but it won't make you a pro because you weight so much.
Making big numbers whilst weighing 65kg is the trick!
That’s why yohandsome’s 700W for 5 minutes guy couldn’t win the TdF.
Let's make some guesstimates here. Conservatively estimating FTP to be 80% of 5 minute power = 560W and bodyweight 100 kg.
Let's say the avg gradient of de tour is 2.5%, then for each 10 kgs weight loss a rider has to do 5% less work. A 60 kg rider would need to do 20% less work than our 100 kg beast, to best him they would need a 450W FTP.
The beast's watts pr kg is still just a meager 5.6, whereas the 450W FTP 60 kg climbing god would need to hit 7.5 watts pr kg to beat him.
Watts pr kg only makes a big difference on steep hills and is a silly way to compare riders' capabilities outside of pure hill climbing.
That is wrong on so many levels especially when related to *Le* Tour, the dynamics of riding in a team, where stages are won, how the GC is won, how W/kg work, etc, etc but hey 🙂
The conclusion is still likely right even though the details are let's say grossly simplified. 700 watts for 5 minutes is so insane and there's no way this person also wouldn't have a beastly FTP (you need good endurance for 5 min!).
People focus too much on watts pr kg..
For a flat, non technical road race, racing as an individual (eg flat TT) then mega Watts regardless of weight is a huge advantage but the less powerful lighter rider *could* also still be faster due to being more aero. Whatever scenario you dream up total power never trumps everything regardless of all other factors. You can take your argument further to say people focus too much on power and fitness as the only judge of progress or success is race results and that is all anyone should focus on 😉
Let’s say the avg gradient of de tour is 2.5%, then for each 10 kgs weight loss a rider has to do 5% less work. A 60 kg rider would need to do 20% less work than our 100 kg beast, to best him they would need a 450W FTP.
Can someone explain these numbers to me?
Or are they junk?
Ballpark correct based on the equation:
Power needed to go up a hill (watts) = gravitational constant 9.8 (m/sec^2) * gradient in %/100 * total mass (kg) * speed on the road (m/s)
To take a more realistic comparison, comparing Ganna (rider 1) assuming his FTP is 480 watts to a lighter shorter 65 kg rider, it actually looks like a smaller rider like Remco _could_ beat him if they can hit 400W FTP due to aero advantages (Cd the same, A calculated from height and weight).
Comparing a 20 km/h climb it actually looks like you'd need to get well above 10 degrees for Remco to gain an advantage over Ganna.
In road racing there's normally a kick to establish a gap before the 5 minute effort. So you have to stand up, hit 8-10W/kg for long enough to get a gap then sit back down and hold 5-6 to grow then settle down to something you can maintain for the duration of the race.
It's what makes Pros so impressive. You look at their 5 minute power and realise they can do it at the end of a stage on week three of racing. Or the numbers they put out in sprint are after a threshold effort in the last few km.
I think weight is less of an issue amongst lean riders as it is mostly just down to height and body type. It's more likely a problem amongst us mere mortals where its a bit of extra padding.
Let’s say the avg gradient of de tour is 2.5%, then for each 10 kgs weight loss a rider has to do 5% less work. A 60 kg rider would need to do 20% less work than our 100 kg beast, to best him they would need a 450W FTP.
The beast’s watts pr kg is still just a meager 5.6, whereas the 450W FTP 60 kg climbing god would need to hit 7.5 watts pr kg to beat him.
Watts pr kg only makes a big difference on steep hills and is a silly way to compare riders’ capabilities outside of pure hill climbing.
The maths there might be right, I haven't checked.
But that's not how a grand tour is raced. It isn't a few hundred km of a gradual slope.
The flat sections are dominated by riding in a peloton where on,y those on the front are working. Those drafting are saving energy & trying to avoid silly crashes taking them out or losing them time.
Unless it's a cross tail wind when it's chaos & fascinating to watch.
Rarely is much time made between favourites on the flat stages.
The TTs have some relevance to the data above, but really they're down to aero not power output alone.
Then there's the hills - the steepest bits ridden at the slowest speeds and with least aero benefit from drafting have a disproportionate affect on the outcome, and that *is* down to w/kg and to the ability to recover.
I realized that Remco has beat Ganna 3 out of 3 times, and it's said his FTP is up to 420w so that makes sense.
I reckon I could nail 500 wotsits in 5 minutes, easy.
I think I'm a competent club cyclist. My best 5 min power was about 5 watts per kilo, or close to 330 watts at 66kg. Scaling that up I'd need to be 100 kg to put out 500 watts at the same watts per kilo. There probably aren't many 100 kg roadies out there.
However..
I reckon a good competitive amateur roadie would be able to put out around 6w/kg for that period of time (coggan's chart appears to agree with me). To hit 500 watts they'd then need to be around 84 kg, which whilst big for a roadie isn't unheard of.
So yeah, I reckon 500 watts for 5 min is probably doable by most large built cat 1 roadies out there.
For me it would be a distant dream however.
Here's 1927 watts for 25 seconds
No chance for me. Too light at 58kg.
Let’s say the avg gradient of de tour is 2.5%, then for each 10 kgs weight loss a rider has to do 5% less work. A 60 kg rider would need to do 20% less work than our 100 kg beast, to
Why 5% less & 20% less?
He's 4x10 kg heaver so 4x5% = 20%. It's ballpark correct even when factoring in the probable height and in turn drag difference, look:
I’m very average club rider but heavier at 90kg and short surges is what I’m best at
Managed 500w for 2:24 in the last couple of weeks
5 min power was 420 but that’s not max as 10 min power was similar
These were indoor rides on a Kickr