Mrs Rickmeisters Orange 5 is heading towards a winter rebuild and tidy up....
In the process of this if I file all the welds flat so the frame is smooth, will what remains in the joint, hold it together or will it be a deathtrap ? ( its way past warranty btw )
Or, do they look like they do because it costs too much / Orange are too lazy to do it and smoothing will make no difference to the strength.
Thoughts please ?
i wouldn't do it.
Chuck up some before and after pics if you take a file to it.
Personally, I wouldn't.
I think the weld scales help with the integrity - but someone who knows about welding will be a long soon.
However, even as an ex orange owner, they are not things of beauty, are they! It seems like a lot of effort for what gain?
Not entirely sure that "smooth welds" on bikes are smooth because they've been filed flat - aren't they that way because they get filled in and then smoothed over or are double pass welds? Don't really see any reason not to, other than sheer time, the fact that the frame may be weakened at strategic points, plus you may well file right through the metal.....
All filler no killer 😆
Agree with bikebouy fill in and smooth if you must, though I quite like the welds as they are.
Probably need some thoughts from a welder.... hopefully someone will pop along soon...
You can't polish a turd.
You can't polish a turd.
Yes you can :-
Canondale certainly used to smooth their welds, but Im not sure if they still do.
Whilst not a welder per say, the general rule I was told is that if you file down the welds, you are likely to be weakening the join to some extent. Now whether thats to the extent of compromising the integrity of the part to the point of failure on a bike ... unknown.
Also be careful about how much you over-file the join and go into the parts being joined ... they will be thin walled pieces likely.
Why risk it?
You'd probably be okay filing some welds - the tube-to-tube ones you'd just be filing the edges off the scallops, like Cannondale do. The beads on the flat plates I wouldn't - you'd need to file away a lot of metal to get them flat, removing quite a bit of the strength.
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/aluminium-welding.htm
Can you afford to replace the bike when it falls apart?
The weld "pool/puddle" where the strength is. Under that hobby weld you cannot be sure of full weld penetration or consistent penetration therefore filing away the "puddle" is likely to weaken the weld.
Alloy usually fails at the edge of a weld. Have you not seen broken 5s ? 😉
I would imagine if the frames were not built by hand but built by machines the welds could look better. home made, in a shed in Halifax they look not too bad 😀
I suppose if I was thinking about the wifes life insurance policy, I'd weaken her bike frame as well.
I don't even trust the welds on mine as they are never mind with bits ground off! Looks like it was welded in the dark by a drunk. All functional but... no.
I'm not a welder, but I am a welding engineer. If you're careful and take the bare minimum of material you'd [i]probably[/i] be fine, but it's definitely not something I'd ever recommend.
There's not much metal in bike frames, and by filing it down you'll have even less, and you'll undoubtedly add stress concentrations and make the weld even more likely to fail.
You'd probably get a nicer finish with some filler anyway IMO.
My bike has all the welds filed smooth. But its a Niner Air 9 which is welded once, then has a second layer of weld put over that which is then filed smooth so that there is still enough material to hold everything together.
On an orange 5 I dont think you should be doing any filing - it would weaken the box section joins, particularly where the angle of the join between planes in the box section are not acute.
All good info, thanks.... Davey, there might be something in that before her next trip to Morzine....
Lots of probably and maybe words.... I'm going to ponder a little on it....
Would it make a difference if the edges to be welded form an inwards V and the weld puddle fills the V, rather than the edges butting up against each other ?
ChunkyMTB - MemberYou can't polish a turd.
No, but you can roll it in glitter!
I weld a bit, although on thicker material than a bike frame normally. I'd only consider grinding it flat if I could see the other side of the weld, and could be sure it is a good weld. So on a bike, no, I wouldn't.
i wouldnt
Need some pics of a broken one... cross sections ideally..
I reckon u could lose a pound in weight with the amount they put on them! Rough ****s! 😀
As mentioned above you don't know if you have full weld penetration, so it's a risk. You could RAD shot every weld before filing, but all that effort for nowt but cosmetics seems silly.
I wouldn't do it because there's no weld on the inside. Strictly speaking a welded aluminium frame is a monocoque because the heat treatment after welding raises the temperature of the crystalline structure to a level where the whole frame becomes a homogeneous mass rather than several parts joined together with weld.
But unless the welds have a backing run on the opposite face, it's likely that there will be far less material in these areas and they will still be a weak point.
Cannondale used to smooth the welds by building them up much bigger than they needed to be before dressing them smooth and then heat treating. This is why Cannondales used to be so horrendously expensive back in the day because the process was incredibly time consuming.
Thats said, you did say it was your other half's bike, so crack on!
Filing welds smooth? I barely have enough spare time to clean my bike.....
So you're aiming to spend lots of time filling welds smooth for the Mrs bike rather than spend time with her....
So you're aiming to spend lots of time filling welds smooth for the Mrs bike rather than spend time with her....
Maybe he's gonna have her do it; it is her bike! 😀
You sure know the way to a womans heart.
Darling - I've decided to spend XXX hrs filing your welds.
Even if it's safe this has to be the most incredible waste of time - ever as O5's are so incredibly ugly no amount of weld titivating is going to improve their looks.
Just buy her a new frame.
Cover it in fibreglass
Get her some life insurance if you do it, just in case.
[5joke]If you really want to do some filing with it, return the bike to its original role... break up all the welds and fold it back into the shape of a filing cabinet[/5joke]
