[Closed] 5-spot, Knolly Endorphin or Spicy 318 for AM duties

I've ridden them all (and owned two).
Firstly, I wouldn't touch a 2010 5 spot (funky geo). The 2011 is a very efficient climber and a composed if not exactly thrilling descender. Brilliant thing to own and the customer support is unequalled.
The knolly is a lunatic downhill and has great traction going up but is not highly efficient so you'll need a lot of propedal to counteract bob. What year are you being offered? The major problem is due to the seatpost angle; correct fit is essential or you'll find yourself way too far behind the bb and struggle to get the power down. Nothing I've ridden since has been such a scream pointing down though.
Limited time on the lappy, but it felt good in all situations if a bit "lightweight" My major concern is that lappy will not sell you a replacement rear or front if you break it unless you are the original owner. Personally, I'd not touch a used one because of this.
In your boots, I'd out for a covert. Ace bikes.

The Knolly is large, as is my Spearfish. Year i'm unsure, I thinkm a 2012/13

I'm 6'0.

The Spicy is something I could risk on the warranty aspect, chganceyou take sometimes.

The Knolly is topping the list, I don't mind a bit of work n way up, if its too bad for XC then I'll buy a 29er HT to run along side it.

Why not that Rocket on the Classifieds?, climbs surprisingly well, better than my old HL 5 Spot and is a superb descending bike.

He's not offered it to me in a swap matey.

If it's a 12/13; I'd go for the knolly. Bit of a no-brainier IMHO.

Wrecker you are talking out of your arse saying the 2010 5 spot has funky geometry!!!!

Just because it has a slightly steeper head angle than what is currently in fashion!!!

Fwiw weeksy you can't go wrong with a 5 spot mate. Would be ideal for you and they are so versatile!!

I'm liking the Knolly i must admit. He's a bit of a drive away though in Yorkshire, but not completely ridiculous to meet him.

I've also got a good cash offer, so looking round and weighing up options etc before throwing myself head first into a deal.

It's very difficult as all 4 options now really appeal lots LOL.

I need to confirm the details on the Knolly, but the guy was on his iphone so the information was a little vague.

I'll go have a little sleep on it and see how it all looks in the morning 🙂

Thanks lads, lets try not to kill one another before then... but by all means, keep the information for good or bad coming.

Wrecker you are talking out of your arse saying the 2010 5 spot has funky geometry!!!!

Just because it has a slightly steeper head angle than what is currently in fashion!!!

Fwiw weeksy you can't go wrong with a 5 spot mate. Would be ideal for you and they are so versatile!!

This.

You'll be okay with a large Endorphin at 6', just use a shortish (60mm) stem.

Wrecker you are talking out of your arse saying the 2010 5 spot has funky geometry!!!!

Have you rode a 2010 five spot mate??

RTFP. I have owned a 2011 5 spot. Have you ever owned a knolly, mate?

Can't comment on the knolly.

I see a lot of people slating the 2009 and 2010 5 spots saying they had rubbish geometry. Dave Turner said himself somewhere that he only changed it due to the bigger headtube etc. Said people are normally riders of the later models who have jumped on the bandwagon.

I actually owned a 2009 and 2010 five spot and also a lot if other bikes and none of the other bikes I've ridden hold a candle to the 2010 5 spot!

I never said rubbish. I said funky, and by funky I meant different. Certainly if you're used to the geo of most modern trail bikes. I've not heard many say they prefer the '10 to the '11. Of course they're good bikes; they're turners FFS. Do not underestimate the knollys, they are bloody brilliant fun.

Well apart from some questions on spares i have also advertised and a mail from what seems to be a scammer, the night didn't really bring anything on the debate.

To an extent i'm still all up in the air really. The list of 'want' out of the 3 swap options changes by the minute.

The only other 'trail' bikes of slightly similar riding style i've owned are a 2010 Meta 55 and a Bionicon Supershuttle, so i'm not convinced i'll really notice even if the 5 Spot is 'different'. Considering all i've ridden is XC bikes lately, i'm expecting a pretty large transition period anyway, plenty of 'getting used to' time.

I'm trying to keep the financial aspect out of the decisions, but i'm guessing the Turner looking at Ebay completed listings is arguably the cheapest of the 3 alternatives above, however that's not really putting me off the bike in any way, just waiting for an updated photo on the Turner.

The Spicy is an STWers, but looking at his recent posts, i rekon he's waiting on a swap for a Zesty before making his final decision on the Spearfish.

I've promised the cash buyer an answer by bed-time tonight LOL. If i sell for cash, then winning the battle of ebay/listings is either an Canyon Nerve AM or i could even throw £600 at the bike and get a new Commencal AM29.

I used to have a zesty mate and found it rode very "light" if that makes sense?? I always felt like it was going to snap as it felt quite flexy.

I wouldn't touch a used commencal with a barge pole.

Seriously consider a five spot. I know people that run them as xc rigs with 140mm Forks to other lads that Wang them down some serious trails in Cyprus with 170mm forks on the front.

I've never ridden a knolly so can't comment on that but looking at pics of it that rear shock linkage looks a bit flexy!!

If you are looking at adding money to it now I would have a look at the New canyon strive!

What size is the Turner btw as I had a large and found it to small!

I've ridden the Zesty and felt the same.. but we're talking about a Spicy... I've not ridden one of them, but like the idea of one.. the warranty does put me off them slightly.

The Commencal, well the cracking issues is why I sold mine, by first 2 frames cracked.

The knolly does look VERY focused, more than anything I've ever seen, the seat looks about a MILE back over the rear wheel in pics.

Adding money isn't my preference, but is always an option (within limits of course)

You wouldn't think making a decision would be so bloody tough... but I must admit the Spearfish is making things VERY hard... Because it's the perfect bike for what I do and what/where I ride... However, my goal for next year is to make what/where a bit/lot more AM than now.. but I have a few doubts as to whether that will actually come off and i'll end up with a bike that's WAY overkill for West Berks XC riding LOL. Add to the fact I've got the Spearfish running and setup perfectly.... But in my hands at Llandegla it was ... well, OK... it was fine... but I couldn't help thinking that something a bit more focused would give me more fun.

renton - Member

What size is the Turner btw as I had a large and found it to small

Funny you ask.. I dunno actually, just mailed him asking that question as all the info/pics he sent etc, the one thing left out was the sizing. My Meta55 was a large and felt massive... my Bionicon was a M and felt small. The Spearfish is a L and feels spot on sizing wise.

If the Spicy is the right size I'd be leaning toward that. They pedal very well for their weight and I have almost got one myself a couple of times.

I think the thing about frame parts for secondhand owners was shown to be inconsistent.

But whether Hotlines keep 2010 frame parts in stock still is another issue.

I normally ride a large in most things specialized (enduro, pitch and stumpy) I had a large zesty and a large BFe.

I bought a 2009 large 5 spot and it was to small even with a 110mm stem. Had to get and xl in the end!

Knolly,Knolly,Knolly..i never had a bike longer than a year until i got a Knolly.i,v now had it for 4 years.never had to change pivot bearings and i run my bikes on neglect. just in the process of getting a Chilcotin to go with the delerium. knolly recomend the air CCDB. the delerium weighs 38lb and as long as i,m feeling strong you can sprint in or out of saddle no probs,no bobs....now check all reviews of knollys then check the rest......also you never see a cracked knolly do you?

If you're more at the XC end of the AM spectrum, the turner may be the ticket. The knolly and spicy are/feel more DH focused. I found the 5 spot short, even shorter than the SC I'm now on. The build quality and attention to detail on the knolly is amazing, but as you have correctly noticed due to the STA, sizing is very important and it's not the most efficient on fire road climbs (where the turner excels).
I suppose the knolly is like a crazy uncle, and the turner more like a sensible dad.

what pegglet said, +1 for the Knolly

If it's the out of the dealer build that is a pretty pimp spec - Kashima fork, possibly a CCDB and carbon cranks?

I think it's about time this thread had pictures....

A Knolly Endorphin, bloke is travelling today so not his actual bike
[img] [/img]

The 5 spot (slightly diffrrernt spec to this pic)
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The Spicy
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I can't comment on the others, but I've just bought a 2013 Knolly endorphin and I'd say it would fit the bill for you.

A few people seem to say the rear end looks flexy, in fact its one of the stiffest bikes I've ridden. For DH duties, the knolly feels almost as good as my DH bike. Of course, its only 140mm, so it has its limits, but it feels like its got more than 140mm. The reason I bought it is because there are several comments/reviews (e.g. mtbr) saying its one of the best descending trail bikes you can get. I'm only a few rides in, but I'd agree with that, its blown away my expectations for a bike with so little travel.

Yes the seat angle is a bit slack, but TBH its so light I've really not found it to be an issue - I'm able to get up climbs perfectly quick enough.

p.s. I am taking all this on board lads, so don't think i'm ignoring your words.

However, all the swapees seem to be busy today LOL, so I've got nothing to update you with really.

I'm enjoying it though, it's like Xmas not knowing what you'll be getting

My 5 spot mate!!
[URL= http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/renton1/turner5spot021_zps2d1c423a.jp g" target="_blank">http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/renton1/turner5spot021_zps2d1c423a.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

I've not ridden any of the bikes in question so little help there.

However, I was under the impression that the Zesty & Spicy shared the same frame, with different shocks etc. to change the travel. So if you thought the Zesty was flexy you may find the Spicy the same. But don't take my word for it.

And if you where picking on looks alone, the Knolly looks great.

At the moment i'm picking on "Whoever comes back to me"...

after about a million emails from various people yesterday, they all seem to have lost the ability to mail LOL.

I'm sitting here with a mondeo full of diesel just waiting for one of them to say "OK, lets do it..." I'll then load up and drive...

Time will tell hahaha

I've ridden a Knolly and a Turner..........for me the Knolly was much more fun ...dh biased possibly ...turner more cx biased .....can't comment on the lapierre ...apart from its French

turner more cx biased

I wouldn't want to do a cyclocross race on one 😉

The best suspension design is on the 5 spot, if you get an XL you will have a large head tube, so may feel a bit tall.

I've had a 2010 Flux and 2011 spot, and a 2011 Zesty. All very capable, the Spot has been a shining star for me.

I've got a 2010 Zesty and Spicy (Zesty is going to my Dad). They aren't the same frame and feel pretty different. As noted above the Zesty does feel pretty flexy in comparison to a 160mm 'AM' bike like the Spicy.

Love the Spicy myself, never ridden the others but they look ace too. I have a medium and am 6ft. Fits perfect with 60m stem, reverb, 711 bars. Gave it a good thrashing in Les Arcs and this year and it never felt out of it's depth (I did though!) and it rides well uphill. Not as well as the Zesty, but that's the trade off, right? Great bike.

The Turner is apparently a Medium. I'm right on 6'0. Any thoughts appreciated.

I'm 5'10 on a medium 5Spot, I like a smaller bike but wouldn't want any smaller than it is now, especially running a 50mm stem (which you're going to do on an AM build). I think a large would be more suitable for a 5Spot with your height (that aside I would thoroughly recommend a 5Spot as an all rounder).

Medium well to small for you mate!!

Large if you like them clickable or xl if you like to be able to ride a bike all day!

I had a medium Horst link 5 spot, at 5' 7" on tip toes I found it perfect, might be a bit small for you, Turner has size guidelines on the website.

The best suspension design is on the 5 spot

Bold statement there.

I've ridden and owned both DW bikes and Lapierre OST ones, and much prefer the Lapierres. It's a subjective thing of course.

I would have the Spicy. Hydro formed tubeset, best geo, no crappy bushings, Nico did the R&D blah blah...

I wouldn't worry about the ST angle on the endo, those comments relate to the 1st gen model. The 4x4 design is bang on and I have had little maintainence to do on my first gen endo. The ST angle is fine for me at 5 10 with a medium plus 50mm stem. 150mm white bros loop fork.

As comments above its got a stiff rear end and I've had 2 Ventanas with quad bearings, which are known for their stiffness. I've ridden all but TNT spots and as much as I like them I prefer the knolly.

Never ridden a Lappierre, except a quick spin on a froggy. Never ridden in anger but it felt nice.

Have you considered after sales support on your options?

Have you considered after sales support on your options?

No, not really, its a 2nd hand bike, chance you take.

It would cross my mind. You know if something did go wrong, some of those brands may tell you to whistle, some may be proactive in helping you out, however big/small, despite not being the original owner.

I'm 6ft and found a large 5 spot a little on the small side.

So its getting to the stage where its the Knolly or the cash really. Still waiting to hear from Knolly guy but not expecting him till later.

Pull the trigger on the Knolly. I have a chilcotin and it's amazing. I hear the Endo rides very similarly.

If I had to describe the ride, you know how it feels when you [i]really[/i] nail a section of trail? You get to the end with a huge grin on your face, giggling and probably looking back up to see if your mates are having as much fun (they won't be)? Well the Knolly does that then begs "Let's go back and do it again. But faster." It's ace

I can't 'pull the trigger' he's a random eBay guy who's getting back to me tonight in theory. I don't have any other contact info for him.

Sold a 2010 Spicy this year, sad to part with it, was/is a great bike. Well made too - they did have cracking issues before then, and carbon issues after, but the bike I had was brilliantly put together, cabling and the like was really well thought out, and the bearings were still in decent nick when I opened them up prior to sale. Climbs well for a 160 bike sizing is good, suspension is plush.

I do like the Knolly though. Chilcotin was on the list.

Are you sure that the Knolly is the 2nd gen as they are very very different, I have got a first gen endo that cracked in the swing arm as a lot have. Knolly were awesome as it was out of warranty, took awhile due to manufacturing issues but ended up with a chilcotin at accident damage rates. Would have had an endo but weren't out at that time, mates just in the process of building a new endo now so not ridden one as yet but the crazy seat angle has gone which was an issue for me at 6' 2 on a large. Meant I was well over the back wheel. Wouldn't hesitate recommending a knolly in any flavour, fantastic grip climbing, very stiff and a machine down hill. Have owned Horst link 5 spot and ridden various other 5's and is a very different bike, not worse just different.

The best suspension design is on the 5 spot
Bold statement there.

I've ridden and owned both DW bikes and Lapierre OST ones, and much prefer the Lapierres. It's a subjective thing of course.

Same here, and I prefer the DW link. I've had a DW Ibis Mojo too, and the implementation isn't as good as Turner's. But like you said, its subjective.

Being objective, the DW link is licenced to quite a few top end manufacturers, while the OST is not.

😉

Medium well to small for you mate!!

This.

I'm 5'11" and the large was the best fitting bike I've ever had (2010 model). They have tons of standover and the frames can be had for a song. Also worth considering that Turner have a brilliant reputation for after sales support and the warranty is transferable unlike the other brands.

I wouldn't say the DW link is the best suspension though. I couldn't get on with it and never achieved full travel. That said, it was remarkable how quick it was - every pedal stroke seemed to make it surge forward and I found I was generally pushing a higher gear everywhere. They are great bikes and I was saddened that I couldn't get the back end working the way I wanted.

I wouldn't say the DW link is the best suspension though. I couldn't get on with it and never achieved full travel

That's the opposite that everyone complains about on the DW spot. Generally they blow through their travel too fast, so need a volume reducer to ramp up the spring rate at the end of the stroke.

If you never got full travel, you needed less pressure, or damping. Definitely not a well known, or noted complaint of the DW link turners.

The Turner DW link bikes need a very low compression tune, which they have from the factory, but if some numpty replaces the shock with something they think is 'better' that doesn't have a low\low tune, it'll ride harsh.

I'll stop banging the Turner drum now. Its obvious I like them. I've had over 20 bikes in the last 5 years, and the only suspension system I liked as much was the Maestro, which is a short link DW copy.

As above too, medium will be waaay too short for you. Large or even Xl for you.

Mine was the shock from the factory, which was actually light compression medium rebound. It was setup correctly for my weight and it just didn't feel right; I played around running more/less pressure but no avail, it just never got full travel in any situation. I don't mince around either and purposefully started looking for hard hits to see if I could get it into the last bit if travel. I've been used to Horst link Nicolais for some time and Single pivot oranges before that so maybe it's just me that didn't like it.

Thanks guys,

We've struck a deal and on Saturday i'll be collecting this. Although it means I need an hour with the spray polish on mine... I never knew a used bike could be so clean !
b

Knolly Endorphin size large

Fox Vanilla R 140mm forks, recently serviced with new seals, no marks on stanchions, very minor on lower legs

Truvativ bars 720mm, truvativ stem 50mm

Hope mono mini brakeset

Hope headset

Hope seatpost clamp quick release

Sram x9 shifters, running 2x9 speed

XT front mech

Sram X9 rear mech

Mavic X719 rims on Hadley USA hubs probably better than Chris King and cost me £550 for the hubs alone

Fox float RP23 with boost valve

Race face evolve XC crankset-with Hope bashguard, NO PEDALS supplied

Schwalbe Racing Ralph evo snakeskin F&R tyres

[URL= http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/weeksy59/Knolly/DSC03304_zps79005875.jp g" target="_blank">http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/weeksy59/Knolly/DSC03304_zps79005875.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

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That actually looks really nice weeksy!!

That's the older model. Around a 2009 I think. Great bike, enjoy!
Let us know what you think of it yeah?

You're mad if you're swapping your Salsa (just had a look, pretty smart!) for that.

There must be something better out there, or split it and sell then spend the money on a bike that's actually decent.

The forks are fairly whack, as are the brakes, and those wheels - ARGH! Why would you ever want them when you could get Hope hubs on Flows! Then the fact it's got 9 speed and cheap finishing kit.

You're mad if you're swapping your Salsa

^^^^^^this

Yep as mentioned that's the older model, think they also get good reviews though

singlecrack - Member
You're mad if you're swapping your Salsa
^^^^^^this

Which goes to prove that beauty is in the eye of the beholder; neither are my cup of tea but I've got to say that Salsa looks like an end if season sale throw together. I know there's some good kit in there but brown saddle with blue forks on an orange bike with red bits.... Pass the eye bleech..!

What does the Knolly weigh?

Yeah goodd piont about the forks....I'd spray them or swap them out

Knolly for me! I am just waiting on the 2014 650B knolly warden in March