[Closed] 5 grand to spend - Carbon high performance super bike or 24 year old hardtail?

Me too, looks mint condition. Probably have more fun on that than a 5 grand carbon jobbie, although I'd be afraid to scratch it.

no... carbon full susser for me.... no matter how good that bike was in the day, it'll be awful to ride by comparison to anything modern, and nostalgia will wear off very quickly indeed

You'd never be able to ride it.

That's 'museum grade' - I'm not sure I'd ever even build it up if it were mine.

Nice, but it's only "new" until the 1st ride.

fuselage

Do you want to ride it or look at it? If the former, buy a carbon super bike, if the latter buy the Klein.

I'd buy that, but as art, not as a bike.

1990s mountain bikes, however fondly we remember them, suck to actually ride, compared to modern standards. Discuss.

<ducks>

No, not for me, £5k is too much for nostalgia, how many times do you reckon you could ride it before it just becomes another old Klein.

Whooosh!

Gorgeous bike!

I'd stick it on the wall, but that's sacrilege when it really should be ridden..hard. But then you'd ruin it.

I really miss my Attitude (green/white/pink) but would I love it now?

Yes, yes I think I would.

someone please take a moment to summarise why that frame/bike is so special? Tar..

The money's not right for it to be ridden. 3 figures and I'd buy it to ride. If I did bike art and I wanted to splurge I don't think I'd see anything more worthy of the money than this and I'd buy it. Oh yes, I'd buy it and smuggle it into the bedroom I think.

Oh yes, I'd buy it and smuggle it into the bedroom I think.

What? Are you going to ream the seat tube you dirty boy.

jekkyl, can I ask what age you are? If you're between 32-40 you should understand.

Not that klein

As others note you will both ruin it and it will ride like shit

jekkyl - Member

someone please take a moment to summarise why that frame/bike is so special? Tar..

Very desirable bike in the 90s they, were one of the first to use over-sized alu tubes to make their bikes much lighter and they were known for very outlandish paint schemes.

I think Trek bought them and slowly killed the brand.

It's a bit like the Audi in this forum

http://www.classic-audi.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=31588

I can't find the exactly link but someone found a 'new' un registered Audi UR Quattro, in it's day it was innovative, expensive and very desirable - by todays standards it's old fashioned and modern cars of it's type are better in every measurable way.

Someone bought it for £50k or so, if they actually use it much it'll just become another UR Quattro and worth maybe £20k but it'll never be used - it's valuable because it's rare, not because of it's tangible value.

glasgowdan - Member

jekkyl, can I ask what age you are? If you're between 32-40 you should understand.

I'm 38 and don't understand. Saying that, I only really got into cycling 6/7 years ago.

sofa if you were into biking at 14 when this came out you'd probably never forget it! It's funny, bikes we lusted after as kids are ALWAYS going to be special to use through our lives. If I see a Marin Bear Valley or a Diamond Back DBR response (I wish) I want it, no matter the logic! Beauty and a value far greater than the sum of it's parts.

There was more to it than just paint and fat tubes, some things that Kleins* had in the 80s/90/s

> Massively oversized, thinwall and butted Alu tubing
> Internal cable routing
> Pressfit Bottom brackets
> Integrated Headsets with oversized steerers

There was also the fact that they rode differently to most other things out there at the time, as well as being very light and very bold visually in an era where most bikes were skinny steel with 1 inch threaded headsets and quill stems.

As with most things like this they divide opinion, and as with most things that divide opinion both sides have valid points 😉

*yes there were some others too that did some of these things, and earlier, but the only guys really doing them all, and successfully, and with flair were Klein.

Nice, but it's only "new" until the 1st ride.

Someone bought it for £50k or so, if they actually use it much it'll just become another UR Quattro and worth maybe £20k but it'll never be used

Whilst this sentiment is true, it'll still depreciate slower than the £5k superbike / stone.

As for the audi, there was an ex rally barn find on ebay not so long ago, went for ~£10k. I was saving for a deposit at the time but it could very easily have been the best/worst thing I've ever bought.

glasgowdan, amedias,

Thanks fellahs, an icon of it's time. 🙂

Shame there isn't a 'like' or 'rep' button on this forum.

Those klein hard tails were gorgeous, the colour schemes were mint, however those klein mantras - not so much!

To be honest if I had £5k to spend on a whim on a retro bike that came up on ebay I'd probably already have my dream bike 🙂 I'd buy it and ride it - probably even turn up to some races with it for a laugh

1990s mountain bikes, however fondly we remember them, suck to actually ride, compared to modern standards.

Agreed. I bought a bike to re-visit the type of riding I used to do 20 years ago, a fully rigid steel hardtail, only this time it's a 29er and vastly better than my 90s bike ever was. Despite being heavier.

someone please take a moment to summarise why that frame/bike is so special?

Because many of us were teenagers in the early 90s, and when you're a teenage boy you buy magazines and dream of being able to own the shiny things. It's that lust that has been blown up into something profound by the passing decades. When really, it's just a bike. It's not art, in any way.

They were nothing special, niche and very overpriced boutique bikes in their day so not worth it now unless you are bored off buying golf clubs and poncy cars

It's probably not NOS. More than likely just repainted. There's loads of them about now that prices are on the up. Buy a shagged looking one, fill it, respray it, hey presto instant profit.

Shipped in a box for the fuselage ??????????/ It`s a bicycle not a 747 does flowery bollox speak make it worth more ?

Shipped in a box for the fuselage ??????????/ It`s a bicycle not a 747 does flowery bollox speak make it worth more

Only if the second box arrives with the cockpit in it.

1990s mountain bikes, however fondly we remember them, suck to actually ride, compared to modern standards. Discuss.

Depends what you ride today. I ride rigid MTBs and can't say they really feel any better to ride than my Cannondale M800 or Kona Cindercone I had in early 90's.

I just dont know why youd buy the cheap £5k one when you could have the betterer £8.3k one...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1992-Attitude-Rare-Police-colors-Klein-MC1-Mission-Control-Klein-Uni-Crown-Fork/221910312517?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3Df8a27f9d03114c0ca66c964b53f55e4b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D281825328990

I ride rigid MTBs and can't say they really feel any better to ride than my Cannondale M800 or Kona Cindercone I had in early 90's.

My Salsa El Mariachi is vastly better than my 1996 Orange P7 was. Mostly down to geometry and wheel size.

I spent some time rebuilding my 93 Explosif a couple of years back, mostly original parts. It looked amazing. One ride was enough to tell me that time has moved on, I was never going to enjoy being on it the way I do modern bikes. It was a thing of its time. I sold it, hopefully someone can appreciate it for more than just aesthetics (but I doubt it)

[img] https://flic.kr/p/9SGoXX [/img]

I don't really get the whole value beyond it function thing

Loads of better things to do with £5000

But the person who buys will have enough cash to have all the modern bikes they want

I don't think I wanted one when they came out they just looked silly to me

I was riding my mates Attitude race last week ; it's not an experience i'm in any rush to repeat.
I almost had to drag him of my Pyga to get it back ....

I once bought a pretty mint very old SH Muddy Fox Interactive just because I so wanted one when they came out, it did ride like crap though so I sold it on to a collector for less than it was worth because he appreciated it & was going to keep it.
Now if anyone want to give me silly money for a mint original Turner Burner then I'm open to offers 😉

Are you f'ing serious??!!
£8.3k
It's an old mountain bike not an E Type Jag!

My steel Rockhopper rides just fine, as good as any other hardtail I've ridden.
Takes wide rubber, fits well, light, fun.
S'got a slightly shorter stem now, risers too.
Brakes apart, it's a lovely bike.
I'm going to singlespeed it and use it over winter.

The Orange Clockwork I had before that was an evil handling, ugly, overpriced, badly built mess.

Good bikes will always be good, no matter how old they are.

I own this:
[URL= http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag215/adam29/1674AD4B-FFD3-4AAF-83E2-A676DDF6F821_zps4odt9uwf.jp g" target="_blank">http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag215/adam29/1674AD4B-FFD3-4AAF-83E2-A676DDF6F821_zps4odt9uwf.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

And this

[URL= http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag215/adam29/C5D78CC2-6363-4518-A43A-0480701D5F83_zpsduhc70ff.jp g" target="_blank">http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag215/adam29/C5D78CC2-6363-4518-A43A-0480701D5F83_zpsduhc70ff.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Guess which one gets the most use? Old bikes are great but compared to today's bikes they're a long way behind!

Shipped in a box for the fuselage ??????????/ It`s a bicycle not a 747 does flowery bollox speak make it worth more ?

FYI: Klein marketed their frames and forks as a 'fuselage' when they sold them originally, so it is not flowery bollox speak, well it is, but it isn't 😉

Actually, my previous post might just be a pile of old toss.

The Surly ECR I rode recently was a bit of a game changer.
Not for touring, as I originally thought, but a Krampus will probably be my next MTB, when my Rock Lobster dies.

Anyone remember how much they were new at the time?

Just trying to work out how much an £8k dandy horse of today will be 'worth' in 20+ years. So I can buy one as an investment, you see. Start the bidding at £20k?

It won't ride like a modern £5000 bike but that's not the point.
Oh and I want it a lot ,
Is it worth the price probably not but I still want it

It's not intrinsically worth anything like that. So you're attaching value to the idea of it, not the actual bike itself. Style over function, except it's ugly. Hype over function.

@ Glasgowdan... high performance carbon? you want one of these,

http://www.centurysea.co.uk/sea-rods/excalibur-tt/

A lot of people clearly don't get it, which is fine.

A) It is a desirable bike (and always has been) for a lot of people
B) How many of those desirable bikes are NOS, never built up or ridden

I would guess there would be one or two in existence in which case the price is actually pretty low based on A and B.

Guess which one gets the most use? Old bikes are great but compared to today's bikes they're a long way behind!

The Klein as the other has tyres based on aesthetic value rather than what works? 😉

It's not intrinsically worth anything like that. So you're attaching value to the idea of it, not the actual bike itself.

Coming from a retro bike background if that really is NOS then it's not actually over priced. Huge market for 'real' Kleins, especially in Germany. Buy it, enjoy looking at it, then sell it for at least the same. Try doing that with a new bike! That's the beauty of retro, if you do it right you should never lose money.

As for riding them.... Agreed that they are way different to modern but they always were. I wouldn't want to ride retro exclusively but it's a good laugh going out for a blast with some mates and old bikes.

tomhoward - Member
Anyone remember how much they were new at the time?

My Attitude cost me (IIRC) £2800 or something very near that.. I had a Marin Team Titanium for 2mths before that and that cost £3000 (it then got nicked at a race in Cannock Chase and the Klein replaced it)
As far as both bikes rode, I clearly didn't spend enough time on the TeamTiT but I preferred the Attitude.

Mindless nostalgia. Bikes are for riding, not for polishing.

[quote=kerley ]A lot of people clearly don't get it, which is fine.
A) It is a desirable bike (and always has been) for a lot of people
B) How many of those desirable bikes are NOS, never built up or ridden
I would guess there would be one or two in existence in which case the price is actually pretty low based on A and B.

No, I think most of us do get that. What we're wondering is what you do with it - as soon as you ride it then it is no longer never ridden. It might not depreciate as fast as a new bike if you ride it, but it won't be far off.

I can understand that there are some people who have always wanted one for whom it will be worth buying to ride - it's certainly very near the top of the list of bikes I lusted after, and if I had too much money... But as mentioned it won't be as nice to ride as a modern bike.

The thing is, if you want to preserve that bike in that condition, and you do want a bike to ride, then if you buy that you'll also have to buy another bike.

I don't really spend any money at all on nostalgia. I'd [i]quite[/i] like an old Kona Humuhumunukunukuapua'a from that sort of era, but those go for a couple of hundred when people realise they don't actually need another pub bike. 🙂

Lusting after bling bikes is a bit rubbish anyway, isn't it?

I don't spend that much on nostalgia either. I'd love an aquafade Fat Chance Yo Eddy but you're looking at £1500 for a decent one of those which is too much for me. I have a Tufftrax, Pine Mountain, Clockwork and RTS1, all from the late 80's, early 90's. Their worth is in 10's and low 100's rather then 1000's but I like messing with them, like looking at them and if I sell I'll make back more then they cost me. What's wrong with that? I also know I have money tied up in them that will go a fair way to buying something modern and tasty in the future if I want to.

The posher bikes just attract people like me with deeper pockets, same rules apply though.

Trip down memory lane.
I had that frame, with that exact paint job...

Very fast bike to ride, but the front end was so stiff it smashed your arms and wrists to pieces. I think I crashed at one stage on it, did some damage to my wrist (which is still a bit of an issue now) and it had to go as I couldn't take the buzz from the trail any more.

Very sad to see it go...

Far too much to spend on a bike whether it is brand new or cult-status. Saying that, I'd happily build that Klein up and go ride it...suspect it'd ride very well.

This idea of 'old-style' bikes not riding well - utter mince - back then, they were the latest thing and rode very well...if people are only used to riding sofa-comfort big travel bikes then everything that doesn't have that kind of travel both ends will apparently ride terribly. Things move on and geometry changes, but if you can ride a bike...you can ride any bike, it just comes down to your ability as to how well you can ride it.

Nowt wrong with that Klein apart from the price.

P.S. I'm a million miles away from riding well let alone a riding god...so my opinion isn't based on me thinking I'm better than everyone else, actually the complete opposite, but I do believe it is rider ability that makes a bike ride well and not the need for umpteen inches of travel.

Agreed, I'm equally as slow on my newish stumpjumper as I am on my 1996 CinderCone! I find the Kona is actually quicker if the type of trail suits it and I use it just as much as my full suspension Stumpy.
Certainly doesn't feel outdated, just rides differently.

This idea of 'old-style' bikes not riding well - utter mince - back then, they were the latest thing and rode very well..

Just because they were the best available doesn't make them good. It's like being the best football team in Scotland...

CX/Gravel bikes are the modern equivalent of the old 90's MTB's.

I've just bought a 90's MTB from ebay and it rides great. Lovely springy chromo that hasn't been made incredible stiff by the addition of disc mounts or modern crash requirements etc.

I used to use bikes like this for everything, singletrack, bridleways, proper trips to the mountains, commuting, biking to friends houses.

Bought a '94 Kona Kilauea frame to build up as commuter. Medium size so the TT length and standover was spot on for me. Also light (Tange Prestige) and had seat tube profiling at the BB so was stiff- sprinted like a road bike. Unfortunately it died from rust (no ED coating in them days). That said, 5/5 - would buy again.

Bikes are for riding.

If you got the money to stick it on a wall then great.

As something to ride - it will be ****ing shit and will ruin your ride.

I've got a 1992 klien adroit. It was my dream bike when I first started mtbing. Rode it to win the student champs in 2004. Even then it rode amazing. I love the bike and always will. It's now hung on the wall in my bike room . Sad not to ride it, but would be distraught if it ever came to harm.