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Hi all,
Currently running 2x10 XT M785 (XTR M986 mech) drive train on my 26 Soul. It’s all a bit worn out – I have had 3000 – 4000 miles out of it and actually shifting is still ‘OK’ but you can feel some drag through it (and hear it up on the stand)! The chain is past 1%, cassette and rings are pretty worn and even the jockey wheels have gone all pointy – so probably best to replace that lot now; no complaints about longevity.
Boringly I thought I would probably just replace like for like (I can do that for about £125) – but before I do – is there any compelling reason why I should consider alternatives to Shimano for the individual parts?
N.B. I could almost be convinced to go 1x on it – but I think 1x10 is probably either too compromised on range or jumps between cogs for me and 1x11 too expensive a change – better to wait until I can afford a new compete bike from an economical point of view – unless you can convince me otherwise!
Thanks in advance for your thoughts…
Example 1x10 conversion could price up as follows:
NW ring £30
Sunrace or Shimano 11-42 cassette £40
Hanger extender £3
new jockey wheels £8
new chain £10
maybe a chain device if a non-clutch mech £15?
I personally LOVE Deore M6000 2x10.
Best bang for the buck. Rock solid. New side swing front mech is a blast.
Real mountain goat setup:
11...42 in the back and 24 + 34 in the front.
Great if you have long and steep uphill trails.
Shifts in the worst mud and crap - others than sensitive 1x12...
Thanks for the responses.
The 1x is tempting but I would need a 32t for the hills (with 11-42) and I think it’s just going to leave me short of gears on the boring road bits I have to ride to join trails together (plenty of those around me). I could ‘nearly’ go to a 34t – but then I will struggle on the climbs just a bit too much – I could try the Sunrace 11-46 to mitigate that – but I think the XTR M986 SGS will struggle with that range even with an extender, (the mech. does have a clutch btw.). That’s the compromise problem – waiting for 11 or 12 speed probably makes more sense for 1x with my ability.
The M6000 setup sounds good – but I’m running 38/26 11-36 at the moment and it suits the terrain I ride well, (Surrey Hills, Chilterns, Cwmcarn, Swinley). Anything I can’t climb with that gearing tends to be from a lack of talent!
Looks like I should replace like for like and enjoy the fact it is pretty bullet proof for now!
Thanks again.
Got a almost new Shimano XT 2x 10 setup if its of any interest
Thanks for the offer - appreciate it. However, think I’ll go for some new shiny rings this time - and hope for another 4000 miles out of ‘em!
Just a quick update for anyone in the same position:
I went for 1x11 in the end, with:
Blackspire Snaggletooth NW 34t Oval Chainring (£24)
SRAM NX PC-1110 chain (£10)
Shimano XT M8000 Shifter (£33)
Shimano XT M8000 Shadow+ GS Mech. (£60)
Sunrace 11-46 cassette (£50ish – still shopping around).
So for around £180 I get to try 1x. My final reasoning was that I was going to need to spend £125 to replace my worn out 10 speed parts so worth the extra £60 to try 1x.
I will lose a little bit at both ends – (0.72 to 0.74 and 3.45 to 3.09), I think I’m really only likely to notice that on any drawn out road sections – which I want to avoid as much as possible anyway.
This then means that:
It will help me understand what I want from my eventual 29 build gearing (when I can save up for a frame). I appreciate the bigger wheels impact the final gearing – but I figure it will still give me some idea of what will work best for me.
If I hate it – I can go 2x11 quite easily (albeit probably need another cassette or ignore the 46t sprocket) or try other chain rings.
I’ll have an 11 speed mech. and shifter I can take over to the 29 build whenever that happens which will keep the cost down at that point.
If it works out OK then it changes the nature of the bike a bit and keeps it interesting!
Anyway thanks again for the advice – it all helped.
If you haven't already bought the mech, I think the SLX M7000 has a nicer shift to it. M7000 mech is fine too if you want to save a few bob.
Cheaper 11-46:
Shifters etc probably cheaper from here too if you want to bump it up to free postage.
I loved Shimano 10sp but the 11sp stuff really is not in the same league.
It really depends how much you want to spend and what your feelings are about gear jumps/cadence control. If you were running double you probably have a long enough RD to cope with an expanded cassette once your knackered jockeys are replaced. A Sunrace 10sp cassette, new chain and NW ring in the outer of your current crank with 3mm of inboard spacers to sort chainline plus a couple of jockeys is your cheapest solution. You might need a goat link or Radr cage depending on RD.
2x11 is a thing thanks to Shimano so that’s an option although it would be a Big Bang change everything and might leave you carrying more lower gears than you need. OTOH, if you actually use your higher gears and are desperate to keep a Shimano freehub it’s probably a better option than 1x as any 1x forces you to place the range precisely and the 11T top leaves you either giving up climbing gears/fitting a very much bigger cassette than necessary or giving up flat speed. If the Shimano freehub isn’t a big deal for you and you’re happy only using thumbs, 10T SRAM (even smaller if going crazy e*13) really does make a huge difference. SRAM 11sp is nothing like as explodey fragile as Eagle seems to be for some. If tempted by the SRAM option, GX RD and 1150 GX cassette plus a nicer shifter, X1/X01 is the sweet spot.
I find SRAM 1x11 works in a nicely sequential way for me and my legs. I’m not so happy with Shimano’s ratio choices. Many prefer the Sunrace ratios to Shimano. Some criticise the Sunrace shift quality, but from the variability I’ve seen of modified drive trains I think it’s more likely derailleur issues in most cases.
@martinhutch
Thanks for the tip on the bike-discount cassette – I think you are right - that is the cheapest even with the postage. There is an MX80 version with two alloy rings – but the MX8 version with only alloy 46t is probably more suitable for me (I’ll probably be using the 40t enough). I have already ordered the M8000 mech. and shifter (so I’ll have to take the chance over SLX). They were a few £ cheaper than bike-discount in the sale anyway luckily.
@vincienup
Agree the 10 speed has been good. The thing at the back of my mind is that my next bike may not accommodate a front derailleur very well (and will most likely have a dropper to add to the bar clutter). So to some extent I’m using the Soul as a test for what that will be like while it needed drivetrain replacements anyway.
Unfortunately my old XTR M986 derailleur can’t go bigger than a 41t sprocket (OK – it might go a bit further with fettling – but not to 46) and the tooth count is not great, so I ruled out trying to use it for this as I would have to go too small on the chain ring and drop to a 2.73 ratio max (just a bit too slow on the flat bits).
If I do end up at 2x11 then I might just try my old 10sp front derailleur and cranks in the first instance – just change the rings in that case, I think the chain line will be OK. I take your point about the SRAM range and 10t – I’m not precious about staying Shimano except – I don’t want to spend any money on my existing 26” wheels – this exercise might show me I need to go SRAM on the 29 for all the reasons you mention.
By the time I actually get a 29er SLX 12 speed will probably be common place and there’ll be a new wheel standard to confound me but it’s all improved my understanding of the gearing choices and what’s available anyway.
Thought I’d give some feedback:
Went for first ride on the 1x11 setup this evening. It was ‘interesting!’
Solo ride, 15 miles(ish) in Surrey Hills. 5 degrees, raining, comically muddy and dark!
The XT/Sunrace/Blackspire combo worked faultlessly throughout. I found it a bit of a psychological challenge as much as anything. It felt like I was never quite in the right gear - although I remember a similar feeling going from 3x to 2x so think that the legs need time to get used to the new ratios. Didn’t notice any weird sensation from the oval chainring - felt like a nice even power delivery.
I found the jumps between ratios OK. Not sure about the 34t chainring at this point. I managed to get up Box Hill OK but am not convinced I would have survived a more technical climb or bigger hill! I used the 46t much more than I had hoped to. Having said that - I did it quicker than I have for ages - so hmmmm maybe just need to have a few more rides and get used to it before reaching for the 32t.
I did find it harder to get the back wheel in the air on any little hops - might be something to do with the lump of steel I added!
Anyway hope the experience helps anyone considering a similar setup.
P.s. if anyone finds a £6 commuter light still glowing in the Surrey Hills - it’s mine - but you can keep it!
Cheers for the update. Re oval chainring I found moving to an oval chainring was no problem, but jumping on a bike without one felt odd and seemed to really highlight the deadspots.
I was going to say.... go 32t rather than 34. You won't miss the high gear loss but the low will save you.
Oval is the way to go too.
re. M7000 rear mech - I've found SLX mechs wear much faster than XT (M8000) I've been through two M7000 in the time I usually go through an M8000. Just not good value, and they aren't much cheaper either.
I’ve ordered a 32 to experiment with too. Even if it’s marginal on my 26 Soul I think when I eventually get a 29er frame it will be the right ratio - so no harm trying it now.
As an aside, the black coating on the Sunrace cassette lasted exactly one ride, (thanks Surrey Hills)! Still looks nice from the other side! 🙂
I find I run a 34 on 650 where I’d run a 32 on 29. Apart from what physically fits your crank, the only person who can say which is ‘right’ is yourself, so experiment. Possibly avoid expensive rings while playing with ratios though! 😁
I gather the SLX/XT thing on RDs isn’t quite as clear cut as price/longevity. There’s been a number of articles, including in ST that look at non standard cassette/derailleur combinations and the SLX M7000 units generally come out on top in terms of tolerating deviation from the intended specification of the drivetrain- which may be worth bearing in mind.
On the rear wheel weight- it’s likely you’ll adapt to it, but obviously of the available options the Sunrace is the heaviest cassette you can put there, so plenty of potential for addressing this at cost if you want to!
Last update on this: I switched to the 32t (oval) and suddenly it all makes sense! the 34t was 'OK' but I was using the 3 largest sprockets with the largest jumps between ratio disproportionately. Using the 32t has moved me back down the cassette into the closer ratios. That means that I am using the gears more effectively, riding more smoothly and only using the 46t sprocket as the last resort it was intended for (and it's more fun to ride). Basically it feels like the useful ratios from 2x10 setup but without a front derailleur - which was the point! Only time I feel under geared is on a steep tarmac descent back into town - really not worth worrying about.
For anyone following a similar path - I couldn't get the indexing quite right when I switched to the 32t. I took it to my LBS and they whipped another chain link out - then it was fine, (best £10 I have spent!). Wouldn't have been an issue normally but the asymmetry has a bigger effect on chain length between similar rings.
Anyway thanks again.
Sounds fun.
Great!
I agree with everthing you've done here - XT M8000 is insanely good value for money.