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More specifically the Ultimate’s. I fancy replacing my 3 year old 150mm Pike Ultimate’s with something new that will work better at 160mm if I choose to go longer. Has anyone got a set and want to give some real world feedback?
The few reviews I can find suggest they’re an excellent fork but small bump not as good. Though I think I’ve also seen it suggested that the lack of small bump my be down to tight bushes which shouldn’t be an issue as I’ll buy them from somewhere that will check them beforehand.
One thing to note - the new Lyrik Ultimates require a £100 air spring to change travel, rather than a £25 one
Can't help with the Lyrik, but I've just started riding a 2023 Zeb and have to agree with comments about the benefit of the Buttercups not being too obvious. Basically small bumps are no better and possibly harsher than the previous model.
I think the damping is better overall though. And the airspring is waaay better, but that was a specific Zeb weakness.
Have you ruled out other brands? Now I've got that Helm coil on my Murmur, I wouldn't wanna go back to RS or Fox.
One thing to note – the new Lyrik Ultimates require a £100 air spring to change travel, rather than a £25 one
I think the upper part (excluding the Buttercup) is supposed to be available separately at closer to the price of the old ones (which was more like £40 than £25).
But they're not actually in stock in the UK and I've only found them in the US so far.
I want one for my Zeb.
🙁
Any of our resident suspension pros know any more?
Thanks both. Didn't know that about the air springs, big jump but hopefully chakaping is right and you don't need the whole assembly.
I've not ruled out other brands, I've just always had Rockshox and always got on with them. I like my Pikes, I just fancy something new and shiny 🙂
I've got 2023 ultimates, had about 8 rides, so still in the setup phase. 95kg, 160mm, bit of everything, does the "big" features. On the end of the scale where i'll take predictability, stability, grip and feel over plush. If my arms are tired at the end of a 2 minute rocky descent, when i never ride rocky descents, i'll blame my lack of strength/fitness rather than setup.
There's a big old thread on MTBR about them and "harshness".
I have ended up at about 15psi above what rockshox recommend. When i was reading the above MTBR thread and Bikeradar review, i was a bit scared of seeming to need 30% sag or else they'll rattle my arms off, i've not found that, i'm just under 20% sag and not found any harshness yet from what i would interpret to be the spring, i'm also getting 150mm travel on hit which are about 90% of the maximum i do. I find the chassis reassuringly stiff in comparison to a zeb, obviously not as stiff, but feel reassuring. Grip, compliance, stability all feel good. Though i'm very much at early stages, just finishing getting spring dialled, rebound is about right, but will bracket, haven't messed with compression damping adjustment yet.
The only "hole" i can find in the setup i want to improve on is that the middle third is a bit "hollow", like compliance to sag and around sag is good, but kind of feel i'm not getting spring (it might not be spring) support outside this until i'm hitting the end stroke ramp up. The shape of the bike is almost there, but not quite "there". So step 1 is going to be increase rebound speed, step 2 increase LSC, step 3 increase HSC.
I would upgrade your Pike with a Secus. Would improve small bump & mid stroke better than any 23 fork upgrade would
Thanks @deanfbm really good info, far more descriptive than I could ever manage.
My lad is looking to swap some 2018 Lyrik RCT3 170mm off his Capra for some nice 150mm forks for a hard tail build, don’t suppose you’re interested?
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Any of our resident suspension pros know any more?
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They're being imported by Raleigh (Not Zyro though). July delivery, £55 for the Zeb air shaft.
get a mezzer instead. Free to change travel, damper that works better than RS stuff and an air spring that is also miles better.
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get a mezzer instead. Free to change travel, damper that works better than RS stuff and an air spring that is also miles better.
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It could be the best fork in the world but UK backup is basically zero:
https://www.hotlines-uk.com/Products/SearchProduct?SearchString=mezzer
Can’t help with the Lyrik, but I’ve just started riding a 2023 Zeb and have to agree with comments about the benefit of the Buttercups not being too obvious. Basically small bumps are no better and possibly harsher than the previous model.</span>
">Interesting, I’ve been wondering about swapping out my 38 Perfromance (so just the Grip damper) for a 22 or 23 Zeb. Would you suggest to stick with what I have?
How in 2023 can high end forks be getting harsher? Can we not just get them to press the big reset button and give us some 2010 mico dh coil lyriks, just with a 29er version?
My 150mm '23 Lyrik 29er felt extremely harsh at the recomended pressure. At 6psi less they are now feeling great. I've heard mixed reviews of many people having to add more pressure (e.g. <span class="bbp-author-name">deanfbm</span> above) and others having to remove pressure (like me). I might have to try adding a heap of psi jsut to try it, but I expect it will rattle my teeth out??
Having said that, I've now had a bunch of rides, so perhaps the bushes, seals etc have "worn in".
On a positive note, they have excellent support with zero tokens. And each click of HSC/LSC makes a noticeable difference.
Chakaping, I think honourablegeorge was spot on about the price if you look at R2- bikes website, even well under £25 if you want 170mm, they might have what you're looking for too.
Interesting, I’ve been wondering about swapping out my 38 Perfromance (so just the Grip damper) for a 22 or 23 Zeb. Would you suggest to stick with what I have?
I would say don't get a 2022 Zeb, as the air spring and damper were both a bit sub-optimal. Your 38 may well ride better.
The 2023 Zeb is much better overall so far, it's just they sold it on the magic buttercups giving great small-bump compliance but I haven't really noticed that - and over cobbles specifically it seems to transmit more feedback than the old one.
Only had a few rides though, with some basic knob-twiddling.
Chakaping, I think honourablegeorge was spot on about the price if you look at R2- bikes website, even well under £25 if you want 170mm, they might have what you’re looking for too.
Well the old ones will be cheaper now, but I remember about £40 RRP and £25 secondhand being the going rate when they were current.
They’re being imported by Raleigh (Not Zyro though). July delivery, £55 for the Zeb air shaft.
Thanks. July though!
Hopefully they'll pop up on a European site before then.
Is the harshness due to a lack of oil in the lowers, or dry foam rings?? Rockshox were quite bad and sending their forks out with very little oil in. I always give any new (to me) fork a lowers service. It's so quick, especially if it's already off the bike.
Is the harshness due to a lack of oil in the lowers, or dry foam rings??
My fork had a bit of a leak in transit, so I refilled the lowers before riding (then did it again when Rick corrected me on the new amounts) 😀
The 2023 Zeb is much better overall so far, it’s just they sold it on the magic buttercups giving great small-bump compliance but I haven’t really noticed that – and over cobbles specifically it seems to transmit more feedback than the old one.
Funny because the small bump compliance is what the 38 is good at, to the point it can almost feel like the headset is loose when stood still and rocking the forks (but it’s just the initial travel being so easy to actuate). I think I’ll wait until the MY23 29er Zebs start coming down in price before deciding then.
'23 springs are down in price too, 87 euro, they were closer to 120 a while back, 180 is in stock
https://r2-bike.com/ROCKSHOX-Air-Shaft-ZEB-DebonAir-A1-180-mm_1
Funny because the small bump compliance is what the 38 is good at, to the point it can almost feel like the headset is loose when stood still and rocking the forks (but it’s just the initial travel being so easy to actuate). I think I’ll wait until the MY23 29er Zebs start coming down in price before deciding then.
What don't you like about your 38? I haven't ridden one, but it's quite possible that it might still be the better fork.
I got my '23 Zeb for a song from Bikester, worth keeping an eye on there.
71 euros for the new spring is a lot easier to take than the inflated £100 pricetag, but bikeinn seem to have the bare shaft without seal head and footnut/buttercup for £30 judging by the photo on their site.
I've a set of 160mm Lyrik Ultimates. Nice forks, seem to give up initial travel more easily than my old 2020 Fox 36 Perfomance, so when travelling at less than warp speed that's a benefit. Good mid-travel support using the compression damping, but disappointed I don't get a truck air brake noise when I press the buttons on the back. 😀
Can't remember my settings, but it's probably around 20% sag (I never really measure sag, just go on feel) and I started with no LSC or HSC, but I run fast rebound. Slowly wound on more compression damping during first few rides, but more on the HSC. Can't remember exactly, but I'm probably somewhere around a third to half from full open on the HSC.
What don’t you like about your 38? I haven’t ridden one, but it’s quite possible that it might still be the better fork.
I got my ’23 Zeb for a song from Bikester, worth keeping an eye on there
There's no explicit 'need' as such. Just that the 38 Performance is the GRIP damper and a higher end fork offers more options for adjustment, having said that the 38 just seems to work so far as I don't really notice it (and I've ridden it in the Alps, DYFI, BPW etc). The rear is a RS Shock and I'm one of those OCD weirdos that like uniformity (see also matching tyre brands, no silly ano colours, matching stem and bars etc) hence looking at the Zeb (it also helps that £ offers seem to come more readily on RS forks).
I'll just stick unless any silly offers come up on the Zeb. I'd need a 170 / 29 / 44o/s model which don't seem to have big discounts at the moment anyway.
I’m a fan of the newer fork over the older charger 2.1. I’ve got a Lyrik & a Pike & they feel almost identical.
Absolutely not as mushy feeling as the old fork. I had a Pike Ulimate on my Spur & it had a different tune in it to try & resolve some of that mid stroke mush as trying to balance it with an air pressure to stop it, ended up feeling like a knife edge trying to balance air & compression & Had to run about 10% sag…
The buttercup thing doesn’t seem to make any perceptible difference IMO. The compression adjusters do seem to be a noticeable improvement.
Anyone selling older lyrik ultimate 29 I'd be interested in them
The buttercup thing doesn’t seem to make any perceptible difference IMO. The compression adjusters do seem to be a noticeable improvement.
Yes, the adjusters seem to do more and they are easier to use now.
People shouldn't be reading this thinking "oh, the new RS forks are harsh". The Zeb (only one I've tried) is a lot better overall. More support, better feel, more composed. I just think they've oversold the buttercup widgets.
Maybe they'll be a revelation in the warmer weather though, when they soften up?
Anyone selling older lyrik ultimate 29 I’d be interested in them
Currently £480 on Wiggle. 180mm though.(
Only in Red, not sure I can handle the speed of red forks make you go.
Thanks for everyone's input, in two minds now. A few of the comments on here and the long thread on MTBR have put me off slightly! Don't want to drop nearly £1k on a new fork and not like and not sure how much of a change a 22 Lyrik would be over my Pikes!