You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
With all the bitching we do about new standards, it's pretty cool that you can buy the new 2021 bits for 40 quid and bung them in last year's fork. RS have been fairly consistent with making their stuff backwards compatible for the most part.
Smart money is on buying a discounted 2020 fork and buying the 2021 air spring shaft and footnut. Fair play Rockshox for making stuff retrofit able.
Yep. I do with they'd give up with the torque cap dropouts though, there must only be about 5 people using them worldwide...
Until they do give up on them, definitely run torque cap hub adaptors. A torque cap fork with normal end caps is noticeably more flexy than full torque cap. On the race team, the winner was alu wheels with the torque caps from the carbon wheels. Just a shame SRAM wheels were shite, fork CSUs creaked dampers blew.
there must only be about 5 people using them worldwide…
1 here, can the the other 4 make yourselves known.
I run torque caps, if you can use them on the hub you run and have a RS fork they are well worth using.
Also run torque caps.. Makes a difference
If you're running a Hope hub without torque caps you're missing out, well worth the umpteen quid.
“1 here, can the the other 4 make yourselves known.”
Me too! Are we at five yet?
Good sale on r2 bike already, includes the new SID. Lyric Ultimate as cheap as I've ever seen.
https://r2-bike.com/Fork-Damper::eng/rockshox
i use trque caps,
it’s pretty cool that you can buy the new 2021 bits for 40 quid and bung them in last year’s fork.
Great news, isn’t it.
Seal head and foot nut also available for £20 or so.
Anyone using Torque Caps on Hunt wheels? I got 2 sets from Hunt, both are so loose they rattle/spin as you ride? I've given up with them and just ride 1.54% slower to compensate for the lack of stiffness.
<sigh> Just upgraded my upgrade purchases.
If you're after a 51mm offset 29 Lyrik ultimate, there this for 554 euros.
https://www.bike24.com/p2367119.html
Less than £500! :O
Edit: RCT3 not RC2 though.
I'm running Torque caps, on Hope hubs
I used to run torque caps on my Hope hubs
My XC bike has Rockshox forks and Reynolds carbon wheels but Reynolds do not make torque caps for their hubs ggrrrr
You learn something new every day - didn't even know there was such a thing as torque caps.
Typical, I just bought the now old debonair kit for my 2017 Pikes! To send it back and order the new one or stick with it?
Timely! I’ve been looking at Luftkappe or debonair for my old Pikes (2015.....) it reads that this should fit? Is that right?
So I've got a lyrik select 2020 ( came on a turbo levo) can I upgrade to use this part? Also is this seperate to the air shaft? (I want to increase travel from 150 -160)
It's a new air shaft, so you can buy the new one in 160 when available, and both upgrade and change travel at the same time.
why would you want one when it reduces your negative air spring volume?
Yeah I'm a bit confused about that too poah
I can see the benefit of in rising ride height, but will you lose small bump benefits of luftkapoe?
It doesnt reduce the negative does it?, it reduces the positive, which will in turn change the ratio in favour of the negative, effectively increasing the negative.
Anyone seen the air shaft on sale yet?
I have a Lyrik Ultimate and lots of time on my hands.
Another happy Torque Cap user here!
*waves*
As much as I generally prefer Fox products, one really has to appreciate RS's modular approach.
My standard fork recommendation for someone who's not after bling has long been any Yari on discount of the right wheel size and offset and then just slap a charger damper and Debonair shaft of the desired travel
Might get some torque caps based on this thread, although I rarely notice any flex on my lyriks.
Quite keen to get this updated air shaft on my long travel bike, as I intend to raise it to 180mm travel anyway and the BB would still be a bit on the low side.
I can see the benefit of in rising ride height
honestly I'm not. you set your sag which is greater than the small amount of droop you get from the weight of the bike. Your bike has mass so why wouldn't it put weight onto the forks?
Timely! I’ve been looking at Luftkappe
get the luftkappe
It doesnt reduce the negative does it?
yeah unless the pictures are completely skewing my perception the negative air volume is going to be smaller. Not the only one to have noticed that. The top of the new deal head is higher up than the older one and wider so there is going to be some volume reduction. Top out bumper also looks shorter.
Having upgraded the airshafts on my Pike & Revelations earlier this year I take this as they got it wrong the first time !
No, the negative chamber is the same size, and the only 2 parts that have been changed are the foot nut and the seal head.
Annoyingly there's no pictures of the seal head installed, but see that lip on the seal head? I think that's where the end of the upper leg sits, with a small portion of the red seal head sitting lower/outside the upper leg. Whereas the current seal head fits 100% inside the upper legs.
Edit: service manual shows it all goes inside, but regardless, the negative spring is still the same size
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/mg8kvbVL/Screenshot-20200410-160748.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/mg8kvbVL/Screenshot-20200410-160748.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Which means, the foot nut raises the air piston by 10mm, and the seal head raises the seal position by 10mm. Result: smaller positive chamber by half an air token, and same size negative chamber.
The reason the top out bumper looks smaller is because you're not seeing it all as its hidden by the seal head.
get the luftkappe
@poah. Why? I thought there was a Luftkappe v Debonair thread but I can’t find it 🤔
Does anyone know if the seal head and foot nut are compatible with a 2015 pike? Ive already installed the debonair airshaft but wouldn't mind fitting these being so cheap I just wonder on whether they are compatible with a pike going back to 2015?
Im also one who has never heard of torque caps? Whats the benefit of these? Do they work with a non boost 15mm front axle?
Thanks
Torque caps are the reason you have to lift up the wheel/fork slightly when trying to locate the axle on a RS fork.
It's the enlarged dropout area which are designed for the larger end caps - RS branded "torque caps".
The longer foot nut will push the whole shaft up so that the air piston is sitting higher, not at the same position as shown in the photo.
These 2 component changes move the air piston 10mm higher so that it sits in the dimple of the fork stanchion, this means the ride height from top-out to sag is higher and riders can benefit from more initial support. So with you’re air pressure set correctly, the new 2021 Debonair air spring will read the correct amount of travel at rest, and the correct sag when the rider is on board.
Rockshox: We've improved our existing excellent products and we'll make the parts available to you so that you can make your fork better, cheaply.
Fox: Ours is 2 bigger
Yeah the air piston sits 10mm higher so that pic isn't aligned with how it'll sit in the fork.
That's probably also something to do with the size of the negative chamber with the piston now sitting at the equalising port, and the fork not sucking down 15mm into the travel. Trying to work it out out makes my brain hurt...
Also note that the foot nut and seal head upgrade can only be done on 20 model forks, 19 models need the full air shaft.
Does mean that buying a 20 lyrik and a £20 upgrade results in a 21 lyrik.
I would advise against the luftkappe, I've had two and also two of the debonair springs and the latter have been consistently better
The longer foot nut has to be longer or you would loose travel because of the larger end seal sitting further into the leg. The top out bumper still sits on the end seal like the other one so the negative air spring is smaller.
Just for a bit of bias - I've also had the same as chakaping and I prefer the luftkappe
I’ve had two and also two of the debonair springs and the latter have been consistently better
define better? what didn't you like about the luftkappe?
define better? what didn’t you like about the luftkappe?
I did like the Luftkappes. Both those and the Debonair shafts gave a nice extra level of support.
But the Debonair shafts also significantly reduced friction, giving extra plushness.
The Luftkappes didn't do that for me.
Why do you prefer the Luftkappe Alex?
Also note that the foot nut and seal head upgrade can only be done on 20 model forks, 19 models need the full air shaft.
I was wondering whether the upgrade would work with upgraded air shafts for older forks ?
PS. Use torque caps too...
But the Debonair shafts also significantly reduced friction, giving extra plushness
wasn't able to compare the two. had the luftkappe @ 160 in a pike and the debonair @120mm.
I know of 2 people using the Torque Caps, me included. We have to be more than 5 now.
Do they work with a non boost 15mm front axle?
Yes. I'm on RS non Boost front myself, Hope hub and using the Torque Caps. Have I noticed a difference nah not really.
Great news this and will make a good fork even better now. After getting rid of my 2020 Grip 2 36 factories, the Lyrik is on a whole different level. Check the classifieds if your after a cheap set 😉
Controversial opinion but I think the seal head and foot nut should be a free upgrade to fix the unwanted unseated sag considering the price of the lyrik ultimate, that 1cm drop really bugs me.
it doesn't affect your sag though. the fact the fork compresses under the weight of the bike shows how effective its being.
Rockshox: We’ve improved our existing products with a bodge to stop people trying to claim warranty on a product that is sagged 5-10mm into the travel when the bike is static.
Fox: Lets search for that small bump sensitivity
Fixed that for you.
ta11pau1
Does mean that buying a 20 lyrik and a £20 upgrade results in a 21 lyrik.
Yup. First reply.
I wasn't asking - "Does mean that" vs "Does that mean" 😉
I was clarifying that if you have a '20 model you don't need the full air shaft, just the footnut and sealhead. Anything '19 or older, you need the full airshaft.
Well I have a set of Yaris (with a novyparts damper) & a luftkappe
But they have a 2018 csu & 2017 lowers (it's a long story)
Who's reckons this 2021 airshaft & seal head will fit ?
Well I have a set of Yaris (with a novyparts damper) & a luftkappe
But they have a 2018 csu & 2017 lowers (it’s a long story)
Who’s reckons this 2021 airshaft & seal head will fit ?
Yep, it'll fit 2016 onwards Yari/Lyrik. 160mm version below.
You'll probably have to give up the luftkappe though.
How long before we can buy the seal head and foot nut in the UK / EU?
Got a debonair air spring in the post and it seem silly to fit the old spec part. Poor timing on my part.
Yep, it’ll fit 2016 onwards Yari/Lyrik. 160mm version below.
Rockshox Air Spring Upgrade Kit – DebonAir C1 160mm (Includes DebonAirAssembly, Seal Head) – LYRIK/YARI A1+ (2016+)
You’ll probably have to give up the luftkappe though.
great, thanks!
will hang on to the luftkappe for a bit & do some comparisons
How long before we can buy the seal head and foot nut in the UK / EU?
I was told 8-12 weeks, I ended up buying the new updated airshaft and will return the unused shaft I bought last week
you got the 2021 airshaft & footnut bruneep, where from?
edit
found
Pre-order now for dispatch on 16/04/20!
tho jtech says B1lyris is 2016+
wwcyclery says A1lyric is 2016+
?
kimbers from my local purveyor of biking goods
http://www.20twentystore.com/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=4333
So basically there’s naff all difference between them as depending on what you personally prefer either version is good. At least they aren’t taking the Micky with spares and swapping for once.
FYI only about 10% of our mtb wheel sales are with Torque cap but it’s rapidly growing. On our product you can just swap them in seconds so it’s a non-problem. As we sell aftermarket we normally lag about 12 months behind internet hype.
Neil SuperstarComponents
@ta11pau1- Sorry. I need to pay more attention next time.
So I've ordered a shaft of J-Tech. If anyone wants a new original debonair airshaft 29"/120 - 27.5"/140 - 26"/150 the please PM.
Will sell for a much reduced priced, I paid £30.62 fro a German shop.
When do j tech expect the new shafts?
My local dealer said they'd had no Comms from SRAM yet so guessed summer time.
But I think they usually announce these things when they have stock almost ready to go?
are people seriously spending cash just so their fork sits a bit higher when stationary?
Are you new here?
Lol
Anyone using Torque Caps on Hunt wheels? I got 2 sets from Hunt, both are so loose they rattle/spin as you ride?
Yep I am. Trail wide boost hub wheel with Yari fork. I haven’t noticed any rattle but next time I’m out I’ll have a listen.
Are you new here?
should have realised the look of the fork when stationary is more important than the loss of performance when riding it.
I'm still crossing everything for an updated 2021 reverb AXS with 200mm drop, the current one has been out nearly 18 months...
Ordered from jtech. Will see how it goes!
are people seriously spending cash just so their fork sits a bit higher when stationary
I'm upgrading from an original air shaft to debonair. Given I'm a 120mm 29er, I don't particularly want to sit low in the travel if there is a better solution
It stands to reason that if the fork sags 10mm when unweighted then it will also be sitting further into the travel when you're riding, so you'll have a higher dynamic ride height with the new spring. Worthwhile upgrade with minimal outlay.
Bike will sit where you set sag to when you are on it. The fork isn’t unweighted, the bike frame etc are pushing it down. I’m his lock down is making people
Seriously gullible lol
Agree with @Robbo89 😏
I can't say that I've ever set a fork up by checking sag. It's always been by how it rides, but when I've checked it, it's been circa 10-15%. I know I'd rather have a higher ride height, with more usable travel and need less tokens to avoid slamming into the bottom out bumper.
the bike frame etc are pushing it down
Really, can couple of kilos tops of handlebars and levers plus a bit of frame can compress a fork.
My 74kg must really squash the fork to its limits