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I'll admit its just a personnal quirk of how I like bikes to be- I find ALL 26 " modern MTBs to be virtually unrideable unless you're at high speed round a trail centre.
Strangely 2009 was when I and everyone I know sold theirs.
two Carvers, One Trek, three Inbreds and three Rigs.
[i]Strangely 2009 was when I and everyone I know sold theirs.
two Carvers, One Trek, three Inbreds and three Rigs.
[/i]
so 6 people bought 29ers then
I like the ride of 29ers but find the front end too high/ too slack on every one I've ridden.
I also notice that the front wheel has a tendency to flop/ get stuck when ridden at slow speeds on rocks and between roots .
I don't think the difference between 650 and 700 would do anything. I'm sure that flat bars and a flat stem would take out that terrible 25mm difference in height. The newer forks have the trail sorted to reduce that 'flop' you talk of.
I find that 29ers compensate too much on front height and they are all too low.
Well OK then, six and three halfs!
Same year though I saw them doing well at certain XC races.
i sold 3 and bought a new one 😉
I got rid of the last of my wee bikes and am now pure 29er / 700.
How long ago did GF go mainstream with the purple Rigs?
I liked alot about 29ers, the momentum and comfort in particular. It was swings and roundabouts with me, in the end 'normal' sized bikes won.
i have 26" (fun), 29" (fast) and 700c (shits and giggles), and i like them all for off road.
bikes is bikes, don't get hung up on the size of their wheels, its all silly anyway.
Picking up my SS fully rigid 29er on Friday, why follow one trend when you can follow 3? 😛
My Rig was great. It won SSUK in 2007. In fact, it was so great, I got a Salsa Selma. That won SSUK in 2009. It convinced me to try a geared one, so I got a Salsa Mamasita (Selma with a mech hanger) and so far that has entered 4 races and got 2 wins, a second and a third. So much for 29ers being too heavy/slow/unmaneuverable... There's even a good range of tyres these days.
Riding 26 and 29 back to back at Dalby on the XC race course, the 29er was certainly faster on the DH parts, especially over loose rocks and roots. The 26 is only 20lbs though with sensible parts, so was faster going back up again. I know the 29er could be made that light, but only with stupid fragile parts.
I'm still going to race on a 26" bike for the big XC races next year - the 2-3lbs there does make enough of a difference for me to stick with 26".
Drawbacks? Apart from the few lbs, they are a bit slower through tight, twitchy trails, but this really only matters if seconds count (i.e. Elite XC racing). As trail bikes, they are superb - it almost feels like a full susser most of the time.
GB
it/that won ssuk. tell me where to buy the really fast ones:-)
The purple ones are the fastest.
Wrong again, GREEN is always fastest.
mine are tang and rootbeer (thats orange and brown then). so i'll mostly not be winning anything.
you mean blue, obviously
blue is a bit mainstream though.
red
SILVER IS FATEST................
100
Ti is the bestist though.
if i can distract you from your colour debate, how does the head angle thing work on a 29er? i mean, the trail orientated ones seem to run @71, where a normal wheel bike would have say 67/68. do they feel at all steep at speed compared to a trail bike with normal wheels?
They don't feel steep at all.
Slowrider - Not in my experience, no. They feel very good at speed - although ever so slightly slower through fast, tight turns.
GB
20"
24"
26"
29" Odd numbers are the work of the devil.
; )
71 felt a bit slow on my rig, but that was great on very steep downhills. i like 72 with a longish offset fork.
The answer to you question is in part that they are becoming far more widely available, with most every major manufacturer now having 29ers in the bike portfolios, Fisher bikes having led the way.
They seem far more accepted in the US, and so in the UK, the more bike shops sell 29ers, the more people will have the option and the more will be sold, and so on and so on.
The one thing mine is not at all good at is getting air and carving really, really tight single track & some North Shore is not kind to the longer wheel base!
So, for somewhere like Penmachno (& some other trail centers) I take the 26FS. Most everywhere else I have the 29er which I find far more engaging, more involving and ultimately more satisfying. I'm not sure it's that much quicker per se, it sure feels like it though.
I always thought the point of 29ers was improved rolling, obviously with minor weight and handling penalties, to let people grind the miles out...
Nothing to do with rider height, surely the whole reason for different sized frames is to account for the differing shapes of various people.
I have no first hand experience of 29ers but I can see both potential benefits and draw backs, I think it's safe to say they suit a certain type of riding, just like any other bike is built with certain types of riding in mind, nothing wrong with that.
I could see myself possibly trying out a 29er in the future, but it all comes down to one thing for me; cost, they're still pretty niche (meaning expensive due to rarity) really. if I'm honest I don't fancy paying over the odds for a rigid SS bike simply because the wheels are a touch larger, I like my kicks cheap, in that respect 26" wins...
2010 the tear of 29ers? Nah, still a bit too niche I reckon, I think most current 29er owners would like them to stay niche, and I thinks most "Mainstream" non-29"-converts are probably "Niche averse" anyway...
Adoption by the masses takes time, and a smaller price tag.
cookeaa - a lovely long, thoughtful post about what 29ers are good for and their relevance (or not) for bigger bikes. I particularly liked:
I have no first hand experience of 29ers
Ah. OK. Thanks. 😐
Adoption by the masses takes time, and a smaller price tag.
Comparing the Kona Big Kahuna to the Kona Kula Gold is a good example of this. £1250 for a ht with RS Tora forks is way too pricey, just for he sake of bigger wheels. The Kula comes with Rebas, decent wheels and a much better drivetrain for the same money.
The problem with 29ers in the UK is finding bike shops that have the space to sell them - with sus forks, disc brakes etc manufacturers just started fitting them to existing bikes - there wasn't a whole different range with / without them. With 29", shops sometimes just don't have the space to stock them as well as 26" bikes, hence their adoption is going to be a lot slower, or just remain niche as only few shops will actually stock them.
GB
Either way, there's plenty of kit both on the market and coming onto the market.
But does it matter?
Not for those of who have 29ers, I would suggest.
Lighter bikes, lighter components and a range of bikes that are set to grow, in particularly the full sus' side of the 29er market (of which I am at present rather ignorant), but when you see the likes of the Superfly and the Air9 Carbon HT making such news headlines and receiving such compliments both on the forums and from bike journos in an otherwise mature and established 26er market environment, it means that there is a real shift in peoples perception of the 29ers as a whole.
Me? I am happy to be riding one and don't especially care if they become mainsteam or otherwise to be honest - as long as I can get spares and upgrades, which is, of course, already the case, have a range of bike from which to cherry pick, I don't much care if I'm riding something others don't get or take to or fancy experiencing.
2009 for me was the year of the 29er.
i don't think they will become mainstream ever. my idea of mainstream is when people who aren't obsessed with bikes, but want one would go to there lbs and be faced with a selection of 29ers and be recommended one by the staff. i can't see that being likely to happen soon, if ever.
What I find a bit cheeky is seeing 29ers dressed up as cross bikes i.e cross tubs on road rims and 1 or 2 x 9 set ups.
i think thats o.k. versatile. i've just got a tricross ss that i'm going to put mtbtires on at some point, using it to commute on at the moment though.
i am the proud owner of 4 29rs now. i love them they suit me.
mates take the pi55, people stare at them, i love the attention to be honest.
reading this post, just one minor observation.............
TooTall..........you do get very defensive about 29rs being deissed.....specially for a man who reckons he is so happy with his choice of bike....... 😕
TooTall - Membercookeaa - a lovely long, thoughtful post about what 29ers are good for and their relevance (or not) for bigger bikes. I particularly liked:
I have no first hand experience of 29ers
Ah. OK. Thanks.
What just because I haven't owned one or had a go on one yet means my thoughts are not relevant?
I would actually suggest that if 29ers are ever to become "mainstream" then I'm just the type of rider who needs convincing; I'm open to the concept of bigger wheels on an MTB, not bothered about niches, but not looking to burn money, and slightly put off by the elitist, niche lover, cock image that seems to go with 29er ownership...
But feel free to prove me wrong on the last point.... Oh...
cookeaa........cock is ok........cock nazi is not..... 😉
Oldgit, the amount of crossfertilisation (see what I did there?!) between 29ers and CX bikes will one day soon, produce my ideal offroad bike-
Tough 700c wheels, superlight discs, 73/73 angles, drop bars, 2" tyres,2 by 11 gearing, maybe a short 60mm travel fork, oh, and it will weigh under 8kg! 😉
Tough 700c wheels, superlight discs, 73/73 angles, drop bars, 2" tyres, maybe a short 60mm travel fork, oh, and it will weigh under 8kg!
you could probably do that now give or take a Kilo....Superfly frame, Reba XX reduced to 60mm, would steepen the HA to about 71/72Deg, Avid BB7s on Sram Red levers, ashima discs, Sram Der, etc, etc....
not defensive - just really enjoy poking the opinionated little people with a stick - especially if they spout off having never ridden one. 😀
It's kinda bonkers when we had 27"/700c wheeled cross bikes to start off with. Then we went to 26" wheeled mountainbikes and now 29ers. I have to ask why we didn't simply evolve the cross bike.
I think there will always be pros and cons with 26/700c wheeled bikes.
I remember soling a Rig thinking this is great until I hit twisty stuff. In the end I just wanted to unify my bikes, and running a standard wheeled bike was a cheaper, lighter and generally easier option.
" What - just because I haven't owned one or had a go on one yet means my thoughts are not relevant? "
It devalues your comments somewhat don't you think? Not actually knowing that much about them, I mean, other than other peoples' opinions and experiences?
Expressing an opinion when you have never even bothered to try one, but think you are actually "put off by the elitist, niche lover, cock image that seems to go with 29er ownership".
Hummmmm.
At least some of us have gone out and made an effort to satisfy our curiosity and some have found them to their liking. I spent 2 x 6hr days riding 29ers and 26ers back-to-back with each other, so that's how I came to 29ers, not because someone told me what I should think; God forbid I form my opinions about such things solely on web forums!
So to pontificate about 29ers when you know so very little, is, best backed up with at least some first hand experience of the bikes; besides which, for you " it all comes down to one thing for me; cost" but "then I'm just the type of rider who needs convincing;" - why? - when for you it's all about being cheap?
I'd advocate trying one on a Demo Day (now is the time of the year), yellow ones are the quickest, Ti ones the most comfortable (also read expensive), SS the most niche! So for you it'd need to be a yellow, SS 29er 😉
Ti ones the most comfortable (also read expensive), SS the most niche! So for you it'd need to be a yellow, SS 29er
my ventana is far comfier than any hardtail..........imho that it.. 😉
yellow ones are the quickest, Ti ones the most comfortable (also read expensive), SS the most niche! So for you it'd need to be a yellow, SS 29er
so if i was about to get a Ti ss full rigid, custom build, do i get instant niche cred points or do i still have to grow some kind of bizzarre facial hair
or do i go back to riding my ss whyte preston with the 24 inch front wheel
[i]Superfly frame, Reba XX reduced to 60mm, would steepen the HA to about 71/72Deg, Avid BB7s on Sram Red levers, ashima discs, Sram Der, etc, etc....
[/i]
this comment should carry an 18+ certificate! i gone all dreamy, but will have to settle for this for the time being
[img] 
[/img]
i used to own a bike shop in Wells and i seem to recal the diamond back rep coming in with the "New" axis 700c (you see 29" and 700c are the same) it was fuly rigid (as was everything in 1995) and had panracer smokes and XTII on it. i had one as a demo and couldnt shift it for love. never seen one since though.
Just goes to prove that what we think is new is just a failed maketing ploy being re jigged 😉
A
@Ti29er:
I wouldn't say I know "nothing" about them, I know as much as anyone who likes bikes and reads up on stuff, it's not a case of "not bothering to try one" I've just not happened to have the opportunity yet and should the chance present itself I certainly would give one a go...
Maybe "elitist, niche lover, cock" comment was a bit harsh but the early adopters have managed to carve themselves a bit of a reputation.
The fact that I catch more flak from the faithful for having a bit more reasoned consideration about 29er's pros/cons and mass appeal, and not actually having a knee jerk downer on 29ers, speaks volumes...
Perhaps separating the product and the "culture" would be helpful; 29" wheeled MTBs seem like a great idea, just can't warm to many of the owners at present...
cookeaa. i'm ace you'd like me:-)
It makes me smile the way people seem to class 29ers as one bike.
"I tried a 29er once and it was shit" kind of thing.
I've tried loads of 26ers that are shit too but it's not a very convinsing argument against all 26ers is it.
It's just a wheel size nothing more nothing less.
Anyway carry on it's quite entertaining. 😀
if ya 6ft 5 it is
he'd hate me
Well, I've fitted cx tyres to a flat bar roadie, so technically I have a 29er 😉 I am keen to give a proper one a go. I am only 5'8" though, is it just a myth that they're better suited to larger riders? Not having had a rigid bike since 1990, I found the downhills on mine fun, but much physically tougher. An alu/carbon frame is not especially comfortable!
**** it, s'all just an excuse to get another bike in isn't it 🙂
Anyone care to analyse cookeaa's points, rather than just poking until he swears?
rich, they might be better suited to tall riders but i can't really comment. i'm 5' 9 & 1/2" and a 29er convert. i believe that there are some possible problems with toe overlap on small framed 29ers.
i've had rigid forks and found they had some benefits that surprised me but overall i'm happier with a suspension fork. if you have some cash, just get one and make your own evaluation.
Bunch of weirdos
most of the time people want first hand advice, not just rehashed mag articals of what was reported third hand of a forum somewhere,
I had my fist 29er ride today, and my first SS ride.
I totally forgot for most of the ride that it was a 29er but I think it coped better with the frozen mud rivers better than my PA would have. Also I heard people say that they don't work as well in twisty trails and are harder up to get up to speed but I didn't really notice that depite the 2.4kg wheelset.
Perhaps on fast summer trails it will be different but for now it's looking good.
so far this year its been the year of surly pugsley`s endomorph tyre 🙂 26" rim,near 29" outer tyre diameter..4" low pressure spread...and we just got a healthy dumping of snow again last night,im loving it...
[img] 
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i like 29er hardtails but 26" full suss for throwing around at trailparks..folk forget though its not about the bike........
Well, to be fair he wrote something about them rolling better, and no one has disagreed. Then he wrote about them suiting certain types of riding, and no one has disagreed (apart from maybe Maverick Boy). If these opinions are wrong, perhaps it would be useful to say why? For example, I found the bit about getting air interesting. I would [b]guess[/b] that in general they'd be harder to manual, but unless people detail their experiences I couldn't be corrected.
Then he wrote about them being a bit niche still, and thus expensive, and harder to get bits for. And how that wouldn't really suit him. I think only Ti29er's had a decent go at looking at that point. And it's a valid point, no?
parts are easy to get, bargains can be had (remember the £400 rig a couple of years ago) but to be fair, thats rare.
One thing that is a seachange type sign of err-change 🙄 is when you start to see cheap catalogue style bikes being offered in 29er sizes,
and thats what I seem to notice more and more kids on these days.
any bike, 26er or 29er, suits a type of riding. there is a choice in what you buy eg. for 29er hardtails you can go for gary fisher superfly or a banshee paradox and everything in between. if people like to pigeonhole them, i'm happy to let them do that.
Yeah. 29ers will be getting bigger. I have been selling 29ers for about three years now and we sell more 29er parts each month.
If you are tall they are logical and work.
The majority of my riding buddies are on 29ers. They are generally the older and/or taller guys. I guess the age thing is about enjoying the flow rather than wanting to huck.
We have two demo 29ers in our shop. A niner SIR9 ss rigid. And a salsa dos 1x9 soft tail. You gotta try these bikes before you can believe in their magic flow powers.
And those are two of the best flowing 29ers out there, esp set up that way
Out of interest, why should they work better for tall people? The only obvious benefit is that if you're tall then there's fewer problems trying to shoehorn the larger wheels into a frame with the same contact points while avoiding toe-overlap and very bendy seat tubes and so on.
The fit (contact points) should be the same relative position-wise and I'm being told that wheelbase is barely any longer (though I'd actually like it if they had longer chainstays).
Or do you mean that they just look more in proportion on large frames which clearly they do?
Or is it that your centre of mass is nearer the axle line (which is higher off the ground than on a 26" bike). Not really sure what effect that would actually have since your 'pivot' point when leaning the bike is the ground, not the axles.
Presumably one of the advantages of a 29er is you need less suspension ?
Therefore why were'nt they invented in the early 90's when bike manufacturers were struggling to decent light suspension. This would have seemed like a easy solution then ?
Or is it just that MTBers were smaller then ? Is this something to do with people getting taller ?
clubber - stop feigning interest! If you want to try them, come on over and try my bikes.
The bigger wheels mean that there is more of a drop from the wheel axle line to the BB than on a 26" bike, which keeps the BB and therefore the pedals the same height as a 26" bike. It makes me, as a tall bloke, feel more like I'm sitting in the bike than perched on top of it - so more my size.
Think of it as your little one getting a first bike - wee wheels to start, up to 16" wheels, perhaps 20", then possibly the big jump up to 26". These increase with size - so doing the same for taller people is the next logical step. You're easily taller than 95% of the people on the planet, so a bigger (IMHO) makes sense.
My Jones is much easier to manual and wheelie than my 26er.....
I've got a 29er and I love it. I'm tall and as Charlie the Bikemonger said
They are generally the older and/or taller guys. I guess the age thing is about enjoying the flow rather than wanting to huck.
Also I find that I can run lower pressures in the tyres and this seems to improve the grip, but I am in no way an expert. And I think my bike looks beautiful, Gary Fisher X-Cal (Red, very red)
TooTall - not feigning - like I said, I'm still looking for one I like. Would gladly try yours but TBH getting out currently is hit and miss so actually organising a ride at a fixed time is somewhat impractical hence why I'm hoping to get some more goes at SSEC where there's likely to be lots about.
Anyway, I don't really agree with your analogy about kids bikes - kids bikes need small wheels as they just can't fit bigger ones in without all sorts of issues with wheelbase, foot clearance, handlebar height and so on.
For those of us blessed enough to be tall enough that we can ride bikes with either 26 or 29" wheels with no real compromise made I'm not sure that 29 is inherently better for us - only a different choice. I kind of know what you mean about the feeling of sitting 'in the bike' more on a 29er but I'm not sure that actually is better - it certainly didn't feel better to me just different - why do you think it's better? just the feel? If so, it seems reasonable enough to say that some people will like that while others won't.
Oh no, not another 29er thread...
For the record I love my 29er, and yes it is a rigid single speed but mainly because it suits me and the sort of riding I do (and no I don't have a beard or feel that gears are pointless). I wouldn't want to go back to riding a 26 incher as I never felt comfortable on my last one (I always felt perched on top of it even though I'm only 6'1"). 29ers aren't for everybody, just as full sussers with 6 inches of travel at each end aren't to everyones taste.
Can't we all just accept that different people like different bikes? The main thing is we're all out there riding. I don't actually think 29ers will be the next best thing as the 26inch wheel format is the most popular wheel format on the planet. Its gonna take quite a marketing push for 29ers to take over the number one spot...
it;s a fashion thing,, we are all fashion pandas some way or another, some people like mainstream others like swiming upstream ,, ( should have been fashion pikes)
one of the bikes I once involved with made the front cover of a mag as "best bike ever?" and that was only in prototype form but it was a marmite bike, and as it didnt fit into the percieved mould of what mountain bikes should look like it just faded away ,
and thats the point ( at last) it's down to peoples choices you cant just say 26 good 29 crap there are good and bad bikes in both camps , and I still think mountain biking is 80% rider 20% bike
29ers are sh1te end of !Anyone with half an ounce of sense can tell that just by looking a them......
& I should know because I've got one that I ride most of the time....
RichPenny - Member
I am only 5'8" though, is it just a myth that they're better suited to larger riders?
[b]STOP PRESS - YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE TALL TO RIDE 29ERS[/b]
Sorry to shout, but I've been looking in on this thread but not getting involved until now.
I'm 5'8" and I've only one 26er now for nipping out with the dog locally.
I've three 29ers - 1 x SS rigid, 1 x geared rigid (meduim frame) and 1 x FS (17" frame)
They are perfect for what I want, they make up for my lack of skill as the wheels fly over stuff better than 26ers.
There is no toe overlap and I won't be going back to 26ers in the foreseeable future
Well, to be fair he wrote something about them rolling better, and no one has disagreed. Then he wrote about them suiting certain types of riding, and no one has disagreed (apart from maybe Maverick Boy). If these opinions are wrong, perhaps it would be useful to say why? For example, I found the bit about getting air interesting. I would guess that in general they'd be harder to manual, but unless people detail their experiences I couldn't be corrected.Then he wrote about them being a bit niche still, and thus expensive, and harder to get bits for. And how that wouldn't really suit him. I think only Ti29er's had a decent go at looking at that point. And it's a valid point, no?
Rich, I just stated (and I'm sticking with it) that it's more about the rider than the bike. 29ers are inherently going to be a bit longer (like for like) and the wheels will have slightly more gyroscopic effect (like for like) than a 26" wheeled Mountain Bike. They will also have (like for like) slightly longer chainstays which will make them a bit harder to manual and wheelie than a 26" wheeled MTB. But people need to witness what a bike is capable of under a rider with enough skill to do it justice (not me I hasten to add) before commenting on whether or not it's any good or not for a certain purpose. Steve Peat on a rigid 29er would still beat me down a DH run even if he lent me his Worlds Winning V10!
cookeeaa makes a valid point about the cost being a prohibitor to the masses trying out 29er wheeled bikes. You can't get away from that sadly though at the moment because of course it is still a relatively small market. I was lucky enough to buy a very cheap 2nd hand GF Rig to give big wheels a go, but not everybody is so lucky obviously. To dismiss his comments as foolhardy just because he doesn't have any experience of riding a 29er is somewhat silly, after all not long ago there were no 29ers on the market, so everyone was a 26" wheeled stalwart and needed convincing to try this new fad!
Going back though, I think the point of 29ers from a marketing point of view is that the wheels roll better once up to speed, certainly over bumpier terrain, and whilst the handling is probably slightly slower than an equivalent 26" wheeled MTB the benefits will appeal to a certain type of person more so than another. HOWEVER... The differences are small... It is probably akin to comparing a full suspension bike with 100mm of travel both ends (lets call this the 26" wheeled bike) with a bike with 130mm of travel both ends (lets call this the 29er). They're both capable of riding the same terrain, it's just that one is probably going to be a bit heavier but also a bit more comfortable (the 29er) whilst the other is going to be a little lighter and faster handling (the 26" wheeled bike)... The differences are small though!
I've been watching this for a while and thought I would add my thoughts.
We sell lots of 29ers to all types/sizes of people. In fact the size we regularly sell out of 1st is 15", so the arguement you have to be tall is not a very good one. I'll go along with the "if you're tall they'll fit better" one. At 6'4" my twenty niners are the best fitting bikes I have ridden in 24 years of mountain biking. (I've just realised that puts me in the tall and older catagory of charlie the bikemonger!)
The key is to try one on a proper ride and ride with an open mind. I get very very few people who come back from a testride and hate them.
We have no trouble selling 29ers to average person off the street looking for a 1st mountain bike. Most don't spot the wheel size in the 1st place until we point it out.
I'm tall and young. See, it's not just tall old people that buy them.
GB
chevin, can i assume from chevincycles? nice to see a shop geared up to sell 29ers aswell as 26ers. i still think it will be some time before other shops follow suit though.
29ers seem to suit SS too.
Discuss.
(I think my next bike will be SS, if I'm strong enough, something the Ti29er is helping with as I'm more pro-active & out of the saddle with this bike than any other HT I've owned. Which is but one, a Pace RC301. I'm actually growing calf muscles for once in my life - at the age of 46!)