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MiniGuru and I went bike shopping earlier as she’s looking huge on her Cnoc 14. Until I saw the Riprock 20 in the shop I was really keen on that because I’m convinced big low pressure tyres are a far better bet than suspension when you’re that light - but it did look big in the metal.
And on trying her on it, even with the post cut down she’d be on tiptoes and the reach is big, just seems like too much bike for her to manhandle. Tried a bunch of 20” bikes and eventually happened upon a hybrid with a 260mm seat tube and 440mm ETT which she was very comfy on.
All the dimensions of that are within a few mm of the Spawn Raiju 20 (angles can’t be far off either) - waiting to hear back from Spawn on BB height but I doubt it’ll be too high, and it has shorter cranks than the hybrid, which bodes well.
Fairly set on ordering one unless anyone can suggest anything better!
Orbea MX20
9 speed
Hydraulic disc brakes
Tubeless rims
[img] https://www.flickr.com/photos/61252950@N03/38059288922/sizes/l/ [/img]
https://www.flickr.com/photos/61252950@N03/38059288922/sizes/l/
Early rider pimped out with hope kit...
Not exactly in the same price bracket though.
We've ordered an Orbea MX20 for our tall 6 year old, but it sounds like size is the major constraint for you. Not sure how she would have got on with anything 20" when she was five.
Something 16" and second hand to tide you over?
Looks like the Orbea MX20 is a similar size, just comes with a longer stem. Commencal Ramones 20+ looks very good for the money too, just a bit high geared and I doubt the chainring can be swapped without needing new cranks.
She looked pretty big on the Early Rider Belter 16 she tried - she’s 112cm (44”) tall and 48cm (19”) inside leg.
I did think about a 16” stop gap but having ridden bikes with 16”, 20”, 26” and 27.5” wheels around our local singletrack I know a 20” feels much less scary when you hit a load of roots than a 16” does. And there’s a reasonable choice of big knobbly tyres in 20” (Vee Crown Gem 2.25 looks good!) At the moment she’s sliding around on 14x1.4 Small Block 8s, poor thing. 😉
Samuel has a Specialized riprock 20.
Scott do quite a nice looking 20”
just bought a Ramones 16 for my six year old.
He on the short side for his age but I think a bike that fits is more important than fixating on a wheel size.
Let me know if you find anywhere that stocks those vee crown gem 20" please.
Only place I could find was direct at £40 a pop!
Vee have a 25% discount code if you sign up for their newsletter. I thought I might just get one for the front.
I could suggest a better custom built Spawn option.. Kotori framsest with D-hanger and 10 spd, shorter cranks to get started. #1 got his at 5 and it will likely last him to 9yrs now its set up as a DJ again. I think the UK is bike only for Spawn, but as far as better out the box, ready to ride, sure to turn heads in sweet purple that genuinely is a kids mountain bike?
That Orbea looks good, but not keen on 36h wheels, 72deg HA and 5 bolt chainring for minimum 34T up front. Cube have missed here also.
Bigger brands are starting to catch up with Spawns push on the kids MTB market but the cranks and contact parts are still lacking what Spawn is specing and most others are still in altus/tourney drivetrains
Scotts kids bikes were a great pricepoint but absolutely everything on #2's Scott Scale 20+ was torn off and replaced. Even then the chainstays are unfortunately long as they still have provision for a kick stand (even #1's Scale 24).
Also the norco fluid HT 2.3+ might be worth a look but again the fork would be a tear off.
Frog and Isla are in the hybrid catagroy imo.
Teh Commencal Ramones is long chainstays and fixed chainwheel size and weak gear spec, better drivetrain on the meta but it gets heavy and both their 20's need the cranks tearing off and replacing with 100-127mm range to stop your little one busting their knees.
Thanks! BB height on the Raiju was a little higher than I’d hoped in terms of fit, 250mm. But that puts it at the same as the Ramones 20+ and the cranks are shorter so more clearance and saddle height.
Spawn seem to think a Small Block Eight is fine as a front tyre - I’d agree if we had a nicely surfaced trail centre nearby. 😉
Isla Beinn 20 and stick a bigger tyre on the front. Can fit a 2.1 small block 8 in the front but not in the back on the ones from a couple of years ago.
Light with a good range of low gears which most were lacking last time I looked. I don't look at that size anymore though.
Saracen Mantra 2.0?
I’m interested in this,L’il J is getting cramped on his 16”belter...
The orbea looks lovely .how much?
That Saracen looks better this year. Actually has smaller gears than the Isla which is a first (I've seen anyway)
Ours used 32/32 a lot.
Do children really need disc brakes to stop? That Spawn is 21lb compared to the Islabike at just over 17lb, I'd go for the lighter bike.............
At the risk of sounding like a partypooper, many of the kids bike discussions on here are a bit obsessive over spec - we tend to pick what we think matters and over analyse really tiny differences.
My thread about jnr #1's lefty includes me being picked up on ditching gripshit, for example. I don't like it, therefore he has rapidfire+. Does he like it? Never even asked him!
OP - just buy whatever fits her. Jnr #2 was too big for his 14" isla, so I kept an eye on eBay for collection only and got a Frog 48 for 50 quid. It'll do him for a year until he inherits the next isla 20" in the stable.
At that age I would say to stick with Frog or Islabike too. Not as cool for daddy, but they just work! Good 2nd hand market is important as well. Other makes might be as good, and they might give you the wow factor, but does a 5 year old honestly give a crap?
(And yes, I'm one of the guys on here with a 7 year old on a cannondale - I don't regret doing it but he only just now "gets it" )
Actually, I'm not that obsessive over spec - but I am obsessive over geometry! I'm not sure whether rapidfire or gripshift is better. I do agree that a low low gear is important.
As Islabike don't share geometry I've just overlaid the Raiju 20 and Beinn 20 small and scaled them to see how they compare. It looks like the Beinn's not dissimilar in fit, similar chainstay length, reach, ETT, etc but the critical difference is the BB height is about 70mm lower. That's a massive advantage when it comes to confidence.
Will it fit much bigger tyres though? I know it'll fit the Explorer 1.75. Is 2" possible?
Shame it doesn't look more rad - but her main priority yesterday was having a bell! 😉
I'll give you a clue - you are obsessing over it, both components and geometry. All she wants is a bell. 😉
Other thing is, she'll change shape over the 1-2year period she'll be using it. By about 10-15% or something. A stem 10mm longer/shorter will make cack all difference, for example.
Make sure it's the right colour bell. 🙂
Personally I find my eldest boy wants what I've got..so thats suspension and disc brakes and gears.
I picked rapid fire shifters over grip shift, as that's what I prefer and believe he would get on better with it.
Soon he will want a dropper!
Well, she does also want a bike she fits on. She was not happy with anything where she couldn't reach the floor at all, or where steering required her outside hand to reach out miles. So it's not just about the bell! 😉
Goldigger - yes, she wants a "bouncy bike" too. In fact, in one of the shops yesterday she came over to me with an urgent look on her face and whispered in my ear "Daddy, they've gone one of those bouncy bikes over there, like yours!"
If we lived next to an uplift venue then I'd get her one but I don't think the pain of pedalling a tiny full-sus uphill would be worth the financial outlay!
"I’ve just overlaid the Raiju 20 and Beinn 20 small"
Lol, im doing exactly this with 24" full sus bikes right now. The transition ripcord is ticking the geo boxes whilst also being available frame only so i have nothing to tear off to get it to what ive decided its spec should be 😉
Another project to bleed money into but 2 boys who ride every day through the summer justifies the effort.
Ive been lucky enough to have them on well fitting bikes at every step so I'm absolutely in agreement with dialling the fit in.
Geo aside for the beinn 20, as devils advocate, you started looking at plus tyres for traction, figured the sb8 wouldnt work for the natural riding around you but youre back at a hybrid isla. Assuming you are going to be riding in the woods, i dont see the isla being the right bike. For a little bit of everything, absolutely, i can see why they have the following they do. The low bb height will also mean more pedal strikes if you are progressing into rooty woods riding .
Fwiw the sb8 is a peach of a tyre and almost every kids trail bike in whistler and squamish has them. They'll ghetto tubeless no problem too.
There are a few other options now and spawn have actually developed their own 20 tubeless ready tyre with nice volume, reasonable weight and decent grip.
Schwalbes original mow joe is another great option but hard to find now in the bigger width.
You might also want to jump on the mtbr families forum, there are lots of relevant threads there for you and with isla available in the usa now, some comparisons against other things potentially on your list.
" Will it fit much bigger tyres though? I know it’ll fit the Explorer 1.75. Is 2″ possible? "
2.0 Moe joe fits fine FWIW.
The Small Block Eight is one of those tyres that only works well for about 2 weeks out of 52 weeks on our local dirt - the wetter 2/3 or 3/4 of the year it clog up instantly with our clay and the dryer portion of the year it skates on the loose marbles of chalkiness. It only performs well during our very brief moments of hero dirt before it either gets wet slippery or dry skittery. I can see it would be great in lots of other places!
I’ve found that Schwalbe make a folding bead lightweight carcass 20x2.0 MTB tyre, the Little Joe, which could be perfect for making an Islabike more of a MTB. I’ve been looking at photos of the 1.75” Explorers in the Beinn and they seem to have plenty of clearance.
Islabike confirmed that the BB is low, 195mm with the stock tyres, so that would make it 210mm with the 2.0”s. But the Beinn small has 114mm cranks so that’s a reasonable amount of ground clearance (especially with the little pedals and narrow Q factor). Islabike also pointed out that their fork is much more compliant than the chunkier straight forks other little bikes.
I’ll have a look on the MTBR forum!
"The transition ripcord is ticking the geo boxes whilst also being available frame only so i have nothing to tear off to get it to what ive decided its spec should be"
I'll be selling Lewis's highly spec'd ripcord soon.
Thanks Poah but ive got my plan in place 😉
"2.0 Moe joe fits fine FWIW."
That's exactly what I wanted to hear! I gather the Little Joe is the replacement for this.
Any suggestions on a QR for the Beinn? I don't think a dropper post will fit. 😉