[Closed] 1x11 cassette weighs as much as the rest of my bike.

Someone remind me why I didn't go for a 2x10 set up?

Because you would be so uncool!!

And it's all unsprung rotating mass too.

Which will matter when your on top of the world cup rankings? You are a world renowned racer that [s]needs to take a shit[/s]needs to save every gram and not some middle aged fat bloke to which it will make naff all difference aren't you?

Should've gone sram

Someone remind me why I didn't go for a 2x10 set up?

Fashion victim?

And because it's an ugly, uneccessary mess?

Shimano cassettes are a bit weighty but they seem to last well. I very much doubt my SRAM eagle cassette will last as long even though it's the best part of 100g + lighter. I've learned over the years that weight isn't everything, thankfully my days of 400g xc tyres are long gone!!

The obvious solution is to go cheap with simple 1x10 and an 11-36 cassette! 😉

SRAN XX1, X01, X1 and GX cassettes are all lighter than XT 11-42, never mind 11-46. Shimano are miles behind with cassettes.

It’s a trend that’s all. Don’t get me started…..

The 11-46 is lighter than 11-42 and offers the same range as 10-42 without the inefficient 10T cog.

XTR 11-36 278g
XX1 10-42 268g

Hmmmmm yes so much heavier....

Is it too late to switch to an XD driver and Sram GX cassette?

XTR 11-36 278g
XX1 10-42 268g

Hmmmmm yes so much heavier....

Why are you comparing a 10 speed Shimano cassette with an 11 speed SRAM one?

The 11spd XTR cassette is 330g.

The XT is not far off double the weight of the XX1. That's terrible.

fr0sty125 - Member
XTR 11-36 278g
XX1 10-42 268g

Hmmmmm yes so much heavier....

Not much of a comparison, that. 11-36 is nowhere close in range.

It's much less about the weight of the cassette than the combined "moments of inertia" of 11 rotating discs.

In comparison to the combined moments of inertia of an 11-42 cassette there will be a slight increase in the angular mass but there will be significantly less workload required to move this mass than the potential workload needed to climb a steep hill

XT is between 411g and 435g depending on ratio option so about 160g heavier - double the weight is a slight exaggeration.

It's also less than a 1/3 of the price of a XX1 cassette - it's not really comparing apples with apples is it?

Given that they are wear out parts, and also that people will swap tyres depending on conditions with far greater weight variances, I know which approach makes most sense to me... 😉

I like to think that before you started you might have thought about

1. What the knew set up might weigh. If you care about that sort of thing

2. had a reason for wanting a 1x set up. Better clearance or maybe suspension performance or just simplicity

As said... It's barely rotating mass (even though it's rotating). You'd notice it more of it was the tyres or the rims.

And **** me, the price of XX1! No thanks.

And I don't like SRAM drive train stuff.

V.
V for, er, victory.

E-thirteen TRS+ FTW - 320g and 9-44t range

[img] ?1458145292[/img]

Just out of interest checked whats on my rig (mix of SRAM GX/X1 )
The GX XG-1150 FULL PIN™ Cassette is 394g for a 11-42t
The Shimano XT CS-M8000 for the same range is 434g.
There is about £20-40 price difference towards the SRAM. Quite a jump to go to an X1! But at a near 80g loss 😯 lol... getting as bad as the roadies....

Cheers, Steve

Yeah when are Shimano going to start machining their cassettes a bit lighter, there's loads of metal to go at without making them weak. SRAM machine the shit out of theirs 😆

To be honest. Having used an m8000 side pull front mech I wonder why I am still using 1x11 on any bikes. The shifting between front rings is incredible.

GX is the solution, only lighter Shimano is XTR and the price is closer to XT. Mine just doubled the life (and is still running fine) of one of the guys I ride regularly with.

Range AND life expanding?

Just have a good dump before you ride

I'm old school - and don't get the 1 x thing ...
But that is fine - if you want to run a more limited range/simpler then that is up to you ... but saving weight is not one of them ...
And I can't see it as being mechanically efficient ... the chain line / drop rate must be an issue ...

To be honest. Having used an m8000 side pull front mech I wonder why I am still using 1x11 on any bikes. The shifting between front rings is incredible.

I would be interested to try one of these. I've moved one back to 1x10, partly to try and save weight and partly because I never had good shifting at the front.

I recently got a new road bike with SRAM rival and the shifting at the front is so smooth. Would be good to try the latest shimano offering, might make me go back to 2 times.

Just have a good dump before you ride

When are people going to stop saying that on every thread about reducing weight.

a) you can have a dump and also have a lighter bike
b) you may not need a dump before the ride and can cause piles by forcing it, and piles must weight something too?

40g is a pretty poor dump anyway! 😉

I have gx on one fser, XT on the other, both 11 speed. I can't tell the difference, as I'm sure most people can't.

Skankin_giant - Member

Just out of interest checked whats on my rig (mix of SRAM GX/X1 )
The GX XG-1150 FULL PIN™ Cassette is 394g for a 11-42t
The Shimano XT CS-M8000 for the same range is 434g.
There is about £20-40 price difference towards the SRAM. Quite a jump to go to an X1!

Best price I can find for the 11-42 XT is £60, £75 for the GX. (also, bear in mind that the XD freehub is generally about 15g lighter too)

You can get an X01 cassette for £150 from Amazon, 260g...

For the record, I [i]always[/i] have a dump before I ride.

And sometimes during as well.

Can anyone tell me supposed weight of the xt 11-46t? I've fitted it now and can't be bothered to remove it to weigh it.

Felt REALLY heavy.

But that is fine - if you want to run a more limited range/simpler then that is up to you ... but saving weight is not one of them ...
And I can't see it as being mechanically efficient ... the chain line / drop rate must be an issue ...

mikey3 - Member

How weak have someones legs got to be to make them weigh bike parts?

Steve Peat, weak legged loser:

[img] [/img]

(he doesn't weigh his own I'm sure, he has people to weigh things for you)

chakaping - Member

For the record, I always have a dump before I ride.

And sometimes during as well.

What pants for shi77ing without stopping ?

Very good Mike. For the record I can deadlift 200% bodyweight. I don't normally bother at all about weighing parts or even investigating their weight... but this 1 parts is actually noticeable. The back end of the bike feels noticebly heavier as I pick it up.

Can anyone tell me what the 11-46t xt weight. I'm thinking it's north of 500g

Just Google it... 460g. Isn't that a whole 1lb?

Sunrace casssette can be had for less and is lighter than XT. Wear rate seems to be slightly better too.

Just Google it... 460g. Isn't that a whole 1lb?

453.592g is equivalent to 1lb don't you know anything.

someone will be along to say 1lb is 1lb in a minute just to be smartarse pants

I have 1x11 XT on my hardtail, perfect for shortish rides around the local woods (fairly flat). Wouldn't have it on my full suss though. It's about the right tool for the job innit.

For the record I can deadlift 200% bodyweight.

Everyone should please indicate what percentage of their bodyweight they can deadlift, then we can resume the bickering. Thanks

Thinking about this a whole 1lb stuck right out back is not a good thing, I'm thinking about when you want to flick the back end sideways etc.

Might price up a sram driver and cassette. Can I run 11sp sram cassette with shimano 11sp chain mech and shifter?

Weight 90kg. Can deadlift 110kg. However, I have to build up to it for my final set (4/4) and cannot do 10 full reps either...

I can't say I recall having dropped a 1x chain on a NW ring yet... Still on original XX1 cassette with 0 issues after over 3000km - but on 4th chain to prevent excess wear.

Has anyone tried the E13 TRS cassette? Look interesting as you can replace individual parts.

Thinking about this a whole 1lb stuck right out back is not a good thing, I'm thinking about when you want to flick the back end sideways etc.

Steve Peat, weak legged loser:

(he doesn't weigh his own I'm sure, he has people to weigh things for you)

When your income depends on it why not. For everyone else a few grams here and there makes no difference, like shaving 2 seconds off the red route will make or break your day.

Might price up a sram driver and cassette.

[img] [/img]

Which is why people buying 11 speed cassettes themselves buy Shimano or Sunrace.

If your frame is optimized for 1x drivetrain there are also weight/strength benefits to be had from the symmetrical chain stays, burlier main pivot and loss of the front mech mounting gubbins

That's the thing cpon... it's not a few grams it's a few hundred compared with my old 10sp 11-32. Guess that's why I'm noticing it.

On the flip side I'm blown away by how light the xt m8000 cranks are!!!

cpon - Member

When your income depends on it why not. For everyone else a few grams here and there makes no difference, like shaving 2 seconds off the red route will make or break your day.

Not about 2 seconds- light bikes and heavy bikes ride differently and feel different, so why not make it ride like you like it to?

Which is why people buying 11 speed cassettes themselves buy Shimano or Sunrace.

munrobiker - Member

Which is why people buying 11 speed cassettes themselves buy Shimano or Sunrace.

Went 11 speed for myself- bought DT freehub and sram cassette (and XT shifting). It's a bigger expense the first time but it's better, and once you've got the hub it's barely any more expensive than XT.

. Can I run 11sp sram cassette with shimano 11sp chain mech and shifter?

Yes, I do just that, sram x01 11 speed cassette and chain with shimano xtr lever and derailleur, works nicely.

Thinking about this a whole 1lb stuck right out back is not a good thing, I'm thinking about when you want to flick the back end sideways etc.

well stop thinking about it so much!

generalising here so don't pull me up on specific weights...

VERY heavy cassette ~500g
heavy cassette ~400g
normal cassettte ~300g
light cassette ~200g

So ~200g difference between 'normal' (which is actually underestimated on) and 'VERY heavy'

So now get a random group of people together, think typical group ride and 200g is less less than the variation in rims, or tyres, or tubes Vs tubeless between any two random riders, let alone other bits of the bike .

If having 200g strapped to the centre of your back wheel suddenly renders you incapable of handling your bike, kicking the back end out or 'pulling a move' then I respectfully suggest you MTFU.

I'm all for saving weight where appropriate, and the Shimano cassettes ARE heavier than other options, and if you're on a mission to lighten your bike then it's a reasonably cost effective place to do so, but keep it in perspective please!

If having 200g strapped to the centre of your back wheel suddenly renders you incapable of handling your bike, kicking the back end out or 'pulling a move' then I respectfully suggest you MTFU.

I'm all for saving weight where appropriate, and the Shimano cassettes ARE heavier than other options, and if you're on a mission to lighten your bike then it's a reasonably cost effective place to do so, but keep it in perspective please!

But if I pick the heavier/normal version of everything then I put 2-3kg on my bike, that is noticeable (the difference between the nice spec and the base spec model)

which is why I clarified about if you are trying to save weight it's not a bad place to look at doing so, but more to the point that exactly illustrates the keeping it in perspective thing, even a 'massive' weight gain of 3kg is the difference between posh and base spec, and nobody would be daft enough to suggest the base spec model would be unrideable or stop you 'getting the back out' would they?

As for performance and reliability the lighter option seems better from my perspective.

I'm also going to take this with a pinch of salt from you specifically Mike as I was under the impression you were a SRAM user through and through and so haven't spent any decent time on a Shimano 11speed setup?

FWIW, neither have I, and only 2 of my riding buddies have gone Shimano 11sp (for MTB), and only recently so I don't have much of a frame of reference with longevity/reliability yet either.

If there is a difference then it could be worth the weight penalty, and It might even be worth it to some given the cost saving, but its silly to use the heavier version of a component if there are lighter, equally durable alternatives for the same or very similar cost.

Looks like we'll be heading back towards 2x drivetrains as the 'must have' soon.
We have hills where I live, so I've never even considered changing to 1x. I know a couple of folk who have made that mistake...

I'm also going to take this with a pinch of salt from you specifically Mike as I was under the impression you were a SRAM user through and through and so haven't spent any decent time on a Shimano 11speed setup?

We have hills where I live, so I've never even considered changing to 1x. I know a couple of folk who have made that mistake...

VERY heavy cassette ~500g
heavy cassette ~400g
normal cassettte ~300g
light cassette ~200g

SS sprocket ~ 20g?

I can feel the difference at the back of the bike between 1-36 and SS, so I'm pretty sure I could feel almost the same difference again.

I'm a tight arse and would rather gurn up hill with 10speed than pay more for a cassette than I do for most of my frames!

Everyone should please indicate what percentage of their bodyweight they can deadlift, then we can resume the bickering. Thanks

Surely a squat is more appropriate if we're also discussing pre-ride ablutions?

The Shimano cassettes do seem a bit portly compared to SRAM, but are more cost effective because they'll work on standard freehubs.

A mate who I ride with most of the time is onto his second XT cassette, he's ridden less than I have and I'm on my second chain on the GX and it's probably going to do a 3rd and at that rate triple the life of the XT. Met plenty of early adopters of SRAM 11 and very few that disappointed.

Similar here too - a mate is on his second XT cassette compared to my one GX and rides less than I do.

A mate who I ride with most of the time is onto his second XT cassette, he's ridden less than I have and I'm on my second chain on the GX and it's probably going to do a 3rd and at that rate triple the life of the XT. Met plenty of early adopters of SRAM 11 and very few that disappointed.

Well, skipping over the 'sample of one' issue entirely... how does that compare to [i]his [/i](rather than yours) previous drivetrains? I always find it difficult to compare longevity of my kit to my friends, even when we ride the same stuff as I can get a lot more miles out of somethings, and less out of others.

Met plenty of early adopters of SRAM 11 and very few that disappointed

Same here, and I know you rate it, but I'm trying to play devils advocate here a bit as the Shimano 11sp stuff hasn't been out as long and just because people are happy with the SRAM kit, doesn't mean they wouldn't be equally happy with others. I don't think the longevity question can be properly settled yet as at the moment the only people who have really put enough miles on 11sp Shimano stuff are already in the 'edge-case' bracket so not necessarily representative of joe average, and although I know a fair few people with SRAM 1x11 who are happy with the performance, they are still (rightly or wrongly) worried about the cost of cassettes and chains.

Honestly no idea but as he went 1x11 XT after we all did 1x11 SRAM and changed before any of us did it's a bit more than sample of 1. As for the weight it does look like the XT is the unfinished prototype that his production. Extra machining does cost but seriously just a little would help, when was the last time you snapped a cassette?

when was the last time you snapped a cassette?

Know any roadies riding 11speed shimano? Or it might have been 7900, either way shimano made some carbon spiders, they cracked.

when was the last time you snapped a cassette?

Know any roadies riding 11speed shimano? Or it might have been 7900, either way shimano made some carbon spiders, they cracked.

So good he said it twice 😉

Their we go must be why they leave all the spare metal in there

but seriously just a little would help, when was the last time you snapped a cassette?

Typically Shimano though isn't it, they always err on the side of caution, especially in the mid range and their kit is often a bit heavier because of it, always have done and I imagine they always will especially below top level.

I doubt they have the power to do so (at least not yet) but I would love to see some more people getting into the groupset market in a big way rather than at the high end (Box, E13, Hope etc.) and low/mid end (Microshift, SunRace), it might push things forward a bti more and give us more choice.

FWIW some of the top end stuff from microshift isn't bad these days, not perfect but improving all the time. Also, a lot more SunRace appearing OEM on bikes now so interesting times ahead maybe...

I suspect with electronic shifting we'll see more choice as it effectively halves the number of fiddly bits.

Their we go must be why they leave all the spare metal in there

I did wonder as I typed it (and your comment that it looks a bit 'prototype') whether that's why it weighs so much. Whther they planned on releasing the carbon version, then hurriedly re-designed it when it didn't work.

Surprised they've not solved it though, I can't be alone in the camp that would rather have Shimano over SRAM even at a slight weight penalty, just not that much.

I can't be alone in the camp that would rather have Shimano over SRAM even at a slight weight penalty, just not that much.

Well, skipping over the 'sample of one' issue entirely... how does that compare to his (rather than yours) previous drivetrains? I always find it difficult to compare longevity of my kit to my friends, even when we ride the same stuff as I can get a lot more miles out of somethings, and less out of others.

The 10 speed stuff he ran before seemed to last ages. He reckons he's done 1,000 miles or so on his drivetrain since Feb and it's time for a new one. That seems pretty poor - over ten months or so, that's not that much riding.

The 11 speed XT cassette does look unfinished compared to the 10 speed ones that I always ran and got good life out of. I've spent two weeks on M8000 and cant wait to get back to my SRAM 11 speed stuff - they just seem to do it better than Shimano. Whereas I thought the Shimano 10 speed bits that replaced my 10 speed SRAm stuff was loads better.

Just Google it... 460g. Isn't that a whole 1lb?

When your income depends on it why not. For everyone else a few grams here and there makes no difference, like shaving 2 seconds off the red route will make or break your day.

When your income depends on it why not. For everyone else a few grams here and there makes no difference, like shaving 2 seconds off the red route will make or break your day.

From a quick bit of googling I get;

all 11 speed.

XT 11-42 445g £60 at CRC
NX 11-42 538g £60 at CRC
1050 (GX?) 10-42 400g £95 at CRC

XT seems a decent option?

Not about 2 seconds- light bikes and heavy bikes ride differently and feel different, so why not make it ride like you like it to?

As amedias says, the difference between a light cassette and a heavy one is about 200g. I've jetwashed more than 200g of mud off post ride. A different tyre/tube would negate the difference. As been said 200g doesn't make the difference between a light bike or a heavy one, but it does make a difference between a light wallet and a heavy one.

Leku - Member

From a quick bit of googling I get;

all 11 speed.

XT 11-42 445g £60 at CRC
NX 11-42 538g £60 at CRC
1050 (GX?) 10-42 400g £95 at CRC

XT seems a decent option?

GX is £75 from Amazon or Wiggle.

cpon - Member

As been said 200g doesn't make the difference between a light bike or a heavy one

Course not, but adding over 50% to the weight of a couple more components will.

Ahh. £10 for 45g and a wider spread of gears. I can see the attraction of that.

11-46 is the same range.

As amedias says, the difference between a light cassette and a heavy one is about 200g. I've jetwashed more than 200g of mud off post ride. A different tyre/tube would negate the difference. As been said 200g doesn't make the difference between a light bike or a heavy one, but it does make a difference between a light wallet and a heavy one.

Course not, but adding over 50% to the weight of a couple more components will

Well, while I agree with both sentiments, I'll just point out again that I was replying specifically to the comment about a heavy cassette causing problems like not being able to 'flick the back end out' and other such madness.

200g is not a lot of weight, in isolation, and I wouldn't be that worried about it in isolation, but I was on a mission to have a lighter bike it would be a sensible place to save a significant chunk in one go [i][b]if[/b][/i] durability is not compromised and it doesn't cost a fortune to do so.

I think people are making too much of a big deal about the [i]absolute[/i] weight, when the obvious bit is why is there such a relative difference to a similar part from the competition, and that's mostly down to the construction, and hence the consequent price differences which may or may not be important.

sillyoldman - Member

11-46 is the same range.

The XT 11-46 is more expensive though, £85's the best I can find, and it's heavier still. The Sunrace might be a good option though.

Fair points Amedias.