1x11 can anyone convince me?

The front mech is the most spiteful of all components, take it off and burn it.

Go wide range rear but ditch the front. 1x10 will be fine. 1x anything is an improvement though imo.

IMHO just go straight to 12 speed. 11 speed feels like a halfway house in comparison.

Mainly looking at getting second hand parts so will probably for for 11

Does the chain not wear out quicker cos it's not able to run very straight with 1x ?

1* on a road bike doesn't make sense in my opinion. You end up most using the smallest and largest cogs on an expensive and heavy cassette with poor chainline and have bad jumps between cogs to top it all off. At the end you have a barely used, but worn out expensive cassette.

My commuter had 1*11 Di2 GRX and I was almost constantly at the bottom of a £200 XTR cassette. I now have 2*11 and am all over a £60 cassette which has lasted over 20000km.

I've NEVER had the trouble that most on here seem to have with front mechs.

Disclaimer: MTBer / off road rider.

1 x is excellent, I love it. My MTB is Eagle 10-52 and has more range than I could ever need, any lower gearing and I'd fall over because I can't pedal quick enough.

My gravel bike is 11 speed 11-46 and I can spin out on the road occasionally, which doesn't upset me much as I don't need to be going any quicker. Eventually once everything wears out and needs replacing I'll likely go to a bigger range 11 speed or go all out and put Eagle on that too.

Cassettes aren't cheap.

On road is a mystery to me but I guess 2x still has its place there.

Easiest way to try it out is to remove your front mech and rings, fit a N/W ring (a cheapo 30t or 32t should fit if you have 104BCD cranks made in the last 20 or so years) and buy a wider range 10speed cassette depending on the vintage of your 10 speed mech an 11-42 cassette should just about work and gives you an indication of what more range on the rear is like, if not current MTB 11 and 12 speed mechs use the same cable pull as 'dynasis'...

Essentially just spend the minimum amount necessary to give 1x a go...

If you're not convinced you can just reinstall the front mech and rings. If you decide you do like 1x just go from there, carry on with 1x10 or buy the shifter/cassette/mech to go for a wider range 11 or 12 speed...

I’ve NEVER had the trouble that most on here seem to have with front mechs.

[/Swoons at mechanical prowess] 😉

I'm 1x on all my mtb's and would never go back to a front mech but 2x on my road/gravel bikes as I like the extra range and closer ratios, I've never dropped a chain and don't run a dropper on the road/gravel bikes so don't see it as a compromise for those.

If you do go 1x then you can stick to 10 speed if you like, there's plenty of wide range options available.

Agree with the comments above about MTB, but that's because on a MTB you're rarely at the top and bottom for long periods - you use much more of the cassette, the chainline is better and the ratios don't matter much. It's almost the exact opposite of what happens on a road bike.

My commuter had 1*11 Di2 GRX and I was almost constantly at the bottom of a £200 XTR cassette. I now have 2*11 and am all over a £60 cassette which has lasted over 20000km.

2x is still handy on road for racing (even if I only do it on Zwift 😂) or fast club rides, otherwise I wouldn’t bother. A lot of people with 2x on road bikes would probably actually be better off & have more fun with a 1x gravel setup anyway 😀

Currently have a 2×10 setup.
[…]
need gears suitable mainly to long distance road riding with occasional off road

Then you’re all set 🙂

Stick to 2x for road, IMHO. The gaps between gears are too big on 1x to be able to find a comfortable cadence to suit varying road conditions.

(Plus the cassettes are a silly size if you want a decent gear range).

I never had any problems with a front mech on MTB or any problem coordinating two thumbs at once. I have 1x 11 on my FS, but it doesn’t run as well as 2x 10 did.

I’ve NEVER had the trouble that most on here seem to have with front mechs.

I know how to set the points on a Lucas distributor but if I ever see one again it's getting thrown in the sea.

I can't think of any reason not to go straight to GX Eagle on a new bike.

My issue with 2x is that the gears I'd use most are at the cross over point between the two chainrings.

Current gravel bike has a triple and I spend the vast majority of my time in the middle ring. The best approximation to this is actually 1x. The wider cassette covers for the occasions when I'd move out of the middle ring. If grx offered a triple, I'd use that.

I've had one bike with a 2x and found it pretty poor. Too much overlap. But I don't rate 1x particularly, too big gaps between gears. Nowt wrong with 3x really, it's just sram pushing away from front mechs cos their's were rubbish gave us another new "thing" we all have to dash out and buy.

Ebikes probably could just go back to 7 speed or something, but they never will. It's like rallying in the 90s where they could have happily run 4 speed gearboxes due to the torque outputs, but they couldn't because of the marketing.

1 x is rubbish, I hate it. My MTB is XT 10-51 and I really miss not having a lower gear than the 28-51. Even that is no use as the bike stipulates a 30T minimum chainring so consequently I've had to tighten the H screw to reduce it to 11 speed so I don't chainsaw through the chainstay when using 28-10. But they don't seem to sell 28t any more so I'll have to revert to 30t next time and have an even bigger bottom gear.
And whenever the drivechain gets muddy wet it makes the most hideous awful graunching noise as it wears itself into expensive pieces.

What's not to like 🙄

For me - MTB and Gravel, 1x11 is wide enough. I use SRAM 10-42 cassettes, and that gets me up and down pretty much everything I want.
I find kit actually lasts way longer than 2x/3x used to. The cassette on my hardtail is 4.5 years old now and has done a LOT of miles in all weather. I just keep on top of chain wear and replace once its past 0.75% stretch. I think its because the chains aren't getting wrapped round 22T granny rings under loads of torque, and the bottom gear on the cassette is much bigger, so the load is spread across more teeth.

When I swapped from 2x9 -> 1x11, every part of the system was lighter, even done to the XD freehub. Took exactly 1/2 a kilo off the bike which was pretty noticeable. (I ran 1x 10 on my old hardtail for a bit 32 & 11-36 and that was a bit limiting - especially at the top end)

Depends really, 2x9 covers the bits 1x11 doesn't. If you're happy with big gaps at the bottom end or a loss of range then 1x is fine. No doubt everyone will be telling you 1x is the best thing since sliced bread, I have it and appreciate it but front gears were never really that problematic.

@thegeneralist, isn’t 28/51 lower than basically every triple ever made? I make it lower than a 20t chainring on a 36 cassette.

1x on my mountain bike = ace.
On road, 2x or 3x (for touring) is great and covers the greater spread of gears needed if you live anywhere with a hill.

1 x is rubbish, I hate it. My MTB is XT 10-51 and I really miss not having a lower gear than the 28-51

And to think we used to worry about the chainline / too much chain angle in the days of 2x7!
2x is gone really. So many modern bikes have suspension in the way of a front mech.
I can remember worrying about going from 3x to 2x.
Marketing. Greener grass?

IMO it depends entirely on the rider. Like, for road use it works great for me- but I always hated narrow gearing anyway, I did the proper road thing and fitted tiny rear blocks and ended up doubleshifting or even triple, and never really being content in a single gear so I'd shuffle between gears all the time. Switched to an 11-34 block even back in the day and liked it far more (I think a big thing was, I might not be happy in the gear I was in, but at least I wasn't tempted to shift since the next gear was further away). This is all probably <wrong>, in terms of efficiency and excellence, but it's just how it works for me.

But if you like narrow ratios then naturally you're less likely to like 1x.

For purely offroad, for me it's just an absolute nobrainer, for the same reason that as soon as 36-22 doubles were a mainsteam thing it was just better for me and having a triple on a bike that only does offroad seemed daft overnight. But again, that's about the rider and the riding they do.

Nowt wrong with 3x really, it’s just sram pushing away from front mechs cos their’s were rubbish gave us another new “thing” we all have to dash out and buy.

But they've actually deleted 2 entire product ranges. Front mechs and front shifers. Two fewer things to buy actually.

How long has 1x12 been out now? Plenty of time for gradual upgrades. No dashing required.

2x11 on my gravel, 1x12 on my mtb.

It's nice of course to have the small jumps and wide range, but I could do without it. I rarely use the two hardest gears on the gravel, and only very occasionally spin out on the mtb.
Basically, advantages to both, but if I had to choose I'd go with the single chainring.

1x is great as it reduces the limitations on suspension design as the front mech no longer needs to be accommodated.

wide range 1x does wear chains faster especially if you spend a lot of time climbing in the low end of the cassette.

on your vagabond id suggest keeping the 2x set up that it has.

Have you ever thought about just not skipping leg day 😉

The assessor on my guide assessment said pretty much the same. He was confused about why I was always spinning a lower gear than everyone.

I guess I did it in amn attempt to prevent injury by grinding. And tbh I do love climbing hills, and it's nice to have a low gear for the slogs at the end of a long day.

It was only this year at the physio that I realised it applied to most/ all my sports. I've got arms, and legs, like cooked spaghetti and have no power at all rock climbing, but I've done a hundred (short) rock climbs in a day and have done a few sessions at the depot where I do over 100 problems.

Same with cycling... probably got an ftp of 250W or something, so have always gravitated to long sloooooowww rides where I can just spin away in a gear that's bearly making contact with the ratchet.

So the conclusion I'm getting is 1x better on mtb. 2x on road. I actually want to have suitable gears for touring - I assume that will cover all bases? But also not keen on 3x. So perhaps stick to 2x10. Any cassette/chainring teeth recommended? I'm not a particularly fast rider, but it's very hilly up here on the blackdowns ?

I got by fine on 24/34/44 with an 11-32 cassette, the 44T ring was basically never used barring flying down hills because I could.

I got by fine on 24/34/44 with an 11-32 cassette

I'm hardly a typical rider, just a skill less, aging guy with a bad heart pootling about for fun and fitness, but I'm happy with 44/32/22 and an 11-36 cassette (and I do need the low gears for climbs).

You can still get triple chainsets with Shimano's trekking groupsets (although the techs. old and very in need of an upgrade). They're designed around a 48/36/26 chainset with an 11-36 cassette (but I'm using and old MTB triple).

Where the trekking kit lets itself down is in that it's MTB tech. and only comes with trigger shifters; I don't think it's possible to get 3x10 hydraulic brifters (although I assume you could run hyros. with bar end shifters). It still gets fitted on some [url= https://konaworld.com/sutra_se.cfm ]fairly serious kit[/url] and cable disks.

Touring i need a huge range. Im a sit and spin climber and slow so need a stupidly low first gear. The shand runs an equivakent to a 22 / 40 bottom gear and i could do with one lower. Nice cadence for me is about 3 mph

The 500% range of the rohloff set that low however means i spin out at about 25mph in top. Thats a pain on long gradual descents. If on my next tour i go into a lot of mountains im going to put two front rings on to give even more range but that then woukd need a tensioner.

The wide range 1x systems look horrid to my mind as well and the mech gets low to the ground thus is vulnerable
For touirng you need as much range as you can get.

I guess im an outlier tho

10 speed is something I've never been bothered about, all mine is 9 speed which once you're on an 11-36 the last 2 jumps aren't all that bad. Keeps stuff compatible as well, if the jumps are an issue stick with lower range cassette and smaller chainring.

Obviously I'm framing that for the OP rather than yourself!

Depends what your local roads are like. If it's only rolling then 1x trumps 2x just for the fact you don't have to constantly think about shifting the front mech. Not going to work so well in the Peaks though.

I think the Sram AXS 12 speed 10-33 is a great cassette for road use with a 44/46/48t front ring. The cogs are: 10,11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,28,33 so you don't notice gaps.

My road/gravel bike is 2x11 105 gears and 2 sets of wheels. A road bike needs 2x but a gravel bike doesn't. A few weeks ago the front mech got caught and pulled the plastic bits out when on technical off road and I was lucky not to trash it. I'm so used to 1x on my mtb I'd forgotten how delicate 2x system are off road.

Most people hate front mechs as they are not very easy to set up. Newer front mechs are even harder.

I personally wouldn't change anything on your vagabond as you mainly want it for road riding. You also don't know if you will keep riding.

I'd save your money for now and put it towards n+1

Just ride what you have.

Any cassette/chainring teeth recommended? I’m not a particularly fast rider, but it’s very hilly up here on the blackdowns ?

If you're looking at cassettes that top out at 11T, consider a sub-compact chainset. I have a compact (34/50) on my Diverge, but the smallest gear on the cassette is a 12T (it's a bastardised HG50 11-36). It suits me pretty well - 50:12 is fine for blasting along at 30 MPH on the flat with a following wind, but it would be useful to have a slightly lower gear than 34:36 for lugging panniers up hill at the end of a long day, but it can be done.

(Incidentally, the spec on affordable Diverges seems to have taken a dive since I got mine!)

From what the OP says I'd be sticking to touring or mountain cranksets, would I hell lug a pannier on a 34t round here.

I’ve NEVER had the trouble that most on here seem to have with front mechs.

i would have completely agreed with you until i had to set up a 3x10 after years of 1x. perhaps i’d forgotten about the chain rub and the way you work around it while riding

For road I’d stay 2x I think. Although I much prefer di2 to mechanical on the road - makes the front mech shift really nice.

I’ve never done any touring but would assume you need some low gears as carrying more weight. Perhaps you could use a sub compact crankset (30/46) and then a normal size cassette - either 11-32 or 11-34?

I would have said get a 10 speed 11-42 but considering you're on a drop bar setup it might be more difficult. Maybe just keep the 2x10 as you'll have better top end than a 1x setup.

I’ve never done any touring but would assume you need some low gears as carrying more weight.

Yes

Perhaps you could use a sub compact crankset (30/46) and then a normal size cassette – either 11-32 or 11-34?

Lower than that. Read what TJ wrote. Round about Devon? Maybe. Up here with a 20%er each way and luggage? Nope. MTB triple gives you two granny gears if you want to look at it that way and that extra 22t weighs naff all.

I run 1x on my road bike, an 11 speed 10-42 cassette and I moved down from 42t to 40t on the front this year.
But I live in Wales, and have almost no roads that are flat, or even near flat for very long. So I'm usually in either the top or bottom 2 or 3 gears. Bottom will winch me up just about anything at a comfortable cadence; top spins out about 35mph now which is plenty.The gear range is almost exactly the same as my old touring triple, but so much simpler to use. It also helps that I'm happy riding at quite a wide range of cadence - I only tend to notice if I'm below 80 or above 105.
It would be far less nice if I lived somewhere flat and wanted to fine tune cadence to gentle slopes in either direction, but it works well for me around here.

The biggest ckimb i have done on this rour was 3 times the climb of the biggest climb in wales. Even going over the gospel pass i could have used a lower gear than my 22/ 40 equvalent. Thats touring with luggage

I havent seen a single bike on the road with 1x gearing here. Even the fit roadies are using 2x and the tourers 3x

Its a diffent thing when you are climbing for so long

40 front and 42 rear is much higer and less range than a touring triple where your bottom gesr is 24 or 26 front 36 rear and your top is 44 front 11 rear

Ollie, have a play with this: https://ritzelrechner.de/

You can put in your 2x setup and compare with a 1x and look at a number of factors like speed or distance travelled.

so need gears suitable mainly to long distance road riding with occasional off road

Given this criteria, I'd stick with 2x10

Not adding much to the debate but even though I'm a committed 1x user I'd say firmly "it depends on the rider" and if I was doing your riding I think I'd be on 2x.

For me the advantages of 1x aren't so much because front mech setup is a problem (It's nice not to have it but I don't think it really is a problem per se). They're more around the dramatic improvement in chain retention, freeing up the left hand for a dropper only, and getting rid of stuff off the bike. Probably those things don't matter on the bike you describe?

Off-road I'm firmly in the camp that starts with 1x12 as the default setting, and you'd have to go a long way to persuade me that something else is better for the riding I do . But my roadie is 2x9 I think, and my commuter is 1x7 because it's pancake flat. There's literally a gear system for every situation, just play about until you get the spread you need.

If you've been away a really long time then the big change would be a clutched mech. Other than that I'd just run what you've got as long as the gear range is what you need. Recently moved up to 12 from 10 speed on full suss and was amazed how heavy all the parts were, that's a whole lot of unsprung mass, but on a frame that has to be 1x it is worth it. OTOH I still have 3x10 on my hardtail because I've seen no reason to replace it

My 15 year old road bike is 2x10 with an 11-26 cassette (IIRC). I absolutely love the close ratio block as when pushing hard on the road I can really feel big jumps between gears. However I hate the double as I tend to spend a lot of time on either the big ring and bottom half of cassette, or small ring and top half of cassette. This means lots of trimming on the front mech, and occasional chain drops if I change chainring while on the wrong end of the cassette. First world problem but a real pain sometimes.

A couple of weeks ago I bought a Cervelo Aspero gravel bike with 1x12, to replace the road bike but give me some off-road options as/when I fancy it. It’s got a 36T chainring and 10-36 cassette. I spent months worrying about going 1x on the road but actually it’s been pretty good, I do notice the jump between gears but it’s not as bad as I thought it would be (MTB background almost certainly helps) and not worrying about trimming the front is wonderful. I’ll top out at about 30mph but I only ever get there going downhill so not bothered, 25mph on the flat is my top top end and that’s still achievable. 36T - 36T is fine for the ups, in fact is probably a bit lower than my road bike goes.

I do find that on the road I spend most of my time in gears 7 or 8 (AXS app does a ride report with gearing etc), not that that is a problem. I’ve done a couple of decent gravel rides in the last week too and gearing was spot on, most time spent in the middle of the block.

I’d still much prefer 2x for road to get the close ratio gearing, but for me 1x is a great compromise.

Have you seen the Classified Power Shift system? Could be the best of both worlds if you are building a bike and have cash to burn:

https://www.classified-cycling.cc/

I personally found 1x11 too limiting. Where I ride locally is flat so I only used the last three rings but when I got to the mountains the big rings weren't big enough to get up the steep stuff. I changed to 2x11 with a Shimano DI2 XT shifters and mechs and am much happier (I use the syncro-shift function which automatically changes between front rings), though I would be happyto change to 1x12 if buying a new bike.

Always 2x for any serious road riding. As above, you'll never find the right chainring/cassette size for a comfortable range of gears at a normal cadence for all conditions - you'll either be spinning out of grinding. Chainline will be crap and it'll likely be heavier.

Sram pushed 1x so much because their cable front Mechs were awful, in part down to their Double-Tap shifters that prevented you from overshifting if needed. Aquablue spent one ill-fated road season on Sram 1x, and it became a hushed up PR disaster will the riders publicly saying how shit it was.

50x34 with 11-32 will get most people along, up and over pretty much any road terrain. 50x11 at 90 rpm will see you zipping along the flat/downhill at over 50 kph. 34x32 will get you up Alp d'Huez.

Sram pushed 1x so much because their cable front Mechs were awful

I think full suss 29ers pushed the development of 1x systems more than anything else really. If you remove the front mech, loads of options are opened to you for packaging everything a bit better in the BB area, including having a wheel with a bigger diameter. Shock placement, linkages, tube shapes...everything and anything now possible if you take away the need for a mech that has to be placed "just so"

SRAM front mechs were bad though, I'll give you that.

I don't ride on the road much, but if I did then I think I'd go 2x purely for the smaller jumps between gears giving more options to find the better cadence. For MTBing 1x is perfect for me, but not all 1x is equal: swapped from 11-46t SLX to 10-42t SRAM 11-sp cassette on one bike and the ratio gaps are much nicer at the top end of the cassette. No longer have the big jump from the granny gear to gear 2 that existed on the SLX, meaning gear 2 is much more useble now

Do pro racers use the dinner plate rear cassettes? Just a question as I am getting on a bit now and still quite happily run 1x10 or 9 with a 11/38 and 36 front ring.

Personally for me anything greater than 9 is just extra weight and marketing. Last time I had to get off and push was the quarry switchbacks at honister but that was a long time ago.