[Closed] 1x10 or 1x9 Is there anybody else that does not need dinner plate cassettes?

How long are your "steep" hills
dinner plate size cassette is the only conceivable way 1x10 would work where I ride.

either you are a mutant or your hills aren't that......hilly

Can you list out the complete spec of your bikes so that we can pick fault with your choices irrespective of whether it works for you?

I ride in the peaks and climb most things with an 11-36 and 34t up front, its not unduly hard just requires effort thats all and a modicum of fitness

be interested to see how the OP fairs on long 2-3 hour alpine climbs with average gradient at 15%.....

chain left!

The fact that 3x9 (or 3x8) exist suggests most people are less fit, ride further or live somewhere hillier.

The steepest parts of the Snowdon Llanberis path were somewhat challenging on 32t front x 36t rear earlier this year. I'm not saying that a 42t sprocket would have made all the difference, but it would have helped!

ooo swoons and nearly faints.....

if only we could all post how awesome we are.

I ran 1x9 36 -12-34 on a 34lb bike I could ride most things but it took a heap more power and if you came unstuck you were finished on proper hills. It was also a right pain on big long hills (mountains I think they are called) along with rough technical climbs.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

what size wheels have you got?

1:1 on a 26er is a fairly small gear.

(but still, it's a bit bigger than i'd choose for something like porter clough, which due to the loose surface often asks for a bit of seated climbing - to get more grip)

I'm currently getting on quite nicely with a 30 front / 36 rear, riding in the Peak. I suspect I'll probably embiggen the front ring when it wears out, but after many years of being used to grannyspinning I decided to err on the side of caution.

I can get up steep hills with no fuss running an 11X36 cassette and 36t front ring.

I ride in the peaks and climb most things with an 11-36 and 34t up front, its not unduly hard just requires effort thats all and a modicum of fitness

Frankly I'm embarrased to be on the same forum as you, I used to ride the Peak on a 38t single ring and 11-34 cassette (with one of those horrible metal DMR chain devices that continualy jammed) as that's all that was available before it became fashionable, the chainring off a DH bike and an XC cassete.

I would however like one of these 'dinnerplate' cassetts as after 10 years of riding arround on that and similar setups, one of my knees is utterly FUBAR'd. And that is why they're a good idea.

[tongue in cheek]
They also help fatties with too much money justify to themselves that they ride 'enduro' not XC and therefore it's the marketings fault that they climb slowly, not glandular/big bones/their own fault/lazyness.[/tongue in cheek]

Also......

although grinding your teeth, stood up, tacking your way up a long steep climb might win you man points - its not necessarily the quickest and definitely not the most efficient way to the top of a long climb.

the tortoise and the hare effect tends to come into play after half a mile or so as I spin leisurely past the early runaways 🙂

the tortoise and the hare effect tends to come into play after half a mile or so as I spin leisurely past the early runaways

On the (regular) occasions I've looked at a hill and gotten off and walked from the bottom I've overtaken even those who set off in the granny gear halfway once they've collpse in a sweaty mess.

[i]And God said, "The [s]m[/s]weak shall inherit the earth"[/i]

Well. I did deliberate about going 2x9 and ditching the 44, until I needed to connect two nice offroad bits with 3 miles on tarmac, so kept it. Locally we have really varied terrain, including steep stuff.
I'm delighted some can climb the seemingly impossible with 36 / 32, I really am.
Meantime I'll stay with 44,32,22 and 11 to 34, thanks and if I cant climb with that well [s]I'll give up [/s]get off and push.
That is until available component choice dictates otherwise.

well done OP you're much more of a man than me...

i have a 42 rear cog on both a 1x11 and 1x10 system because:

1, i love the look/feel/simplicity of 1x system
2, i do not have the fitness to manage anything less (yes, i'm a bit porky, i only get time to ride maybe once/twice a month)

why does it bother people so much, what other people do?!? i've seen the same arguments for/against:

full sus
29ers
650b
fully rigid
single speed
disk brakes

just let people get on with it, why/how does it even affect you?

I've never found a section too steep to get up with 11-36/32, or rather, I have found loads but I'd not get up them with a granny ring either.

But that's just short bursts which are easy to work with. It's the long, draggy, ever so [i]slightly[/i] too steep climbs that kill me. Like, the drag up past mamore lodge being a perfect example. It's not that pleasant with a granny frankly!

If you're able to get up that sort of thing without too much bother, good for you

A lot of AWESOME going on here!

[img] [/img]

reckon i could jog up ben nevis but will probably walk.. 🙄

If some one wants to run single up front and 10-42 on the back that's there prerogative.
I am not fit enough to go 1x or not affluent enough to go 10-42 depends which way I want to look at it.

But no bothered , I run double and bash and have no issue with my granny.
Not to say if I ever got fit enough to lose it I wouldn't.

The guys who use double/triples and/or 40-42t largest cogs are always so defensive of their setup on this forum. Examples of 2hr alpine ascents are irrelevant as I suspect the total STW climbing done by all members doesn't consist even 0.1% of this type of riding. They always declare how slow and steady wins the race, comments above like standing out of the saddle is inneficient are made up (ask Contador).

The guys who use single rings and normal cassettes are quite happy in being able to ride everything a little faster and becoming stronger for it.

There's no debate when it comes to personal choices like this really. Nobody is wrong/right. It's a bit like saying someone's not using the most efficient type of saddle or shape of bars. It's personal.

I never struggle on climbs due to using a 1x10 (36 cog) drivechain, so why would I add the extra weight, shifter, cables, cost (delete as applicable) of such items?

Northwind - Member
I've never found a section too steep to get up with 11-36/32, or rather, I have found loads but I'd not get up them with a granny ring either.

But that's just short bursts which are easy to work with. It's the long, draggy, ever so slightly too steep climbs that kill me. Like, the drag up past mamore lodge being a perfect example. It's not that pleasant with a granny frankly!

If you're able to get up that sort of thing without too much bother, good for you

Yeah - I think for weekends away and biggerer mountains I'll probably whack a granny on there as well. I like that the single ring MAKES me man up and crank though. Grr!

There's no debate when it comes to personal choices like this really. Nobody is wrong/right. It's a bit like saying someone's not using the most efficient type of saddle or shape of bars. It's personal.

I agree, but let's be clear here, you are INCREDIBLY AWESOME aren't you?

standing out of the saddle is inneficient are made up (ask Contador).

I don't think he has suspension and when he stands up its not for lack of gears - his cadence hasn't fallen to virtually zero

Nobody is wrong/right

I am right 😉

It depends where you ride. I'm in the Peak District and have not found anything that would flummox my 32T ring with 11-36 cassette. Round here the dinner plate cassettes would be an advantage in that, if teamed with a bigger ring rather than a 30T, you retain the lowest gear but get a higher gear at the other end.

If I moved back to the Highlands, though, and was riding mountains all the time like I did, I would definitely consider a dinner plate cassette. Grinding up some of those slopes for 3000ft over 4 miles is hard work and if there's an alternative I'd consider it.

I'm not a front mech fan- losing it has cut 1lb from my bike. Saving that much weight that easily is expensive work so a wide range cassette would suit me in that situation.

I run a 30t and 11-36 on the FS and a 32t and 11-36 on the HT. I still "need" an easier gear for long draggy horrible climbs, but can actually get by with what I have now (and much, much prefer the simplicity of 1x).

When 38 or 40t cassettes (that work with Zee mechs) are affordable I will get one. Now if I know I have a horrible long, long draggy climb on the route I'll just bolt a granny on (with no mech) and manually swap the chain over. The problem for me is that if I have a granny and a mech I'll use them too often and never end up getting anywhere, just frantically spinning my legs and achieving less than walking pace. This is due to my fitness levels, admittedly, but if I'm going slower than walking I might as well walk.

What about those of us that are just our for a nice hour or so to enjoy ourselves? I like my 22 36 bottom gear on my "more money than ability" bike. 8)

geda and rob jackson which one of you is this?

[img] [/img]

It's personal.

Can't agree more - I use a 26-36 double to a 11-36 cassette setup on my XC race bike - mainly because it's what I like and it means I can generally sit and plod past people grinding up hills with single rings! - But then again on my cyclocross bike I have a 39t chainring to a 11-32 cassette - I never feel short of gears, and ride the same stuff as the XC bike! (minus the drops 😉 )

I feel either setup is good - both have their merits and downfalls- but they are all fun to ride!

I'm still running 3x10, I can see all the arguments for and against re: climbing - I have a bad back that doesn't like being bent forwards too much so being forced to stand and climb more might actually be beneficial to me in more ways than just increasing strength and fitness. What puts me off is the loss of the big ring. Around here (South Downs) there are plenty of descents which whilst not technical are pretty fast at 40mph odd with some pedalling. Going 42-11 to 32-11 seems a hell of a drop for this type of terrain, is it?

There are plenty of climbs that I would struggle with 32/36 for any period of time, and I don't consider myself slow in the grand scheme of things.

Sooner someone comes up with an affordable single ring option with min 40 tooth cassette then I'll be converting.

There are plenty of climbs that I would struggle with 32/36 for any period of time, and I don't consider myself slow in the grand scheme of things.

Sooner someone comes up with an affordable single ring option with min 40 tooth cassette then I'll be converting.

I am not saying I am awesome. There are some really really short very steep climbs around me and sitting down spinning does not work for me. I am not very good at it and as I said before spinning sitting on the saddle is not that great for technical climbs as it is hard to move you weight around for the techy bits.

I always get this wrong though. I am running 11X34 at the back. Proper steep for me is the switch backs up from Honister pass after the quarry. I think I have got up to the second one but that may be wishful thinking. Can't see how you could do those sitting down unless you bike has different geo than mine as the front end would keep on trying to do a wheelie.

I call...

[img] [/img]

Off the top of my head, my setup is

36lbs full susser, 1x9, 32T front, 12-36 cassette

sub-30lbs hard tail, 1x9, 30T N/W front, 11-34 cassette

Given the differences in weight between the bike, they both feel roughly the same when grinding up climbs in the lowest possible gear combo

Following some comments on a skills course that I should try to climb in a higher gear to improve traction I've been making a conscious effort to stay in the 32T ring for longer and I've observed a few things.

You need more muscle to turn a bigger gear, but don't need to generate any more power. Power depends on the speed of the bike not the cadence. So, climbing with a higher gear seems hard at first, but once you've built up the required muscles it doesn't actually take any more effort to climb at the same speed with a lower cadence.

I've had a sore lower back for the past few months. Only sore enough to keep me off the bike on a few occasions, but permanently sore. The only thing that I can think that I've changed is this switch to lower cadence climbing (although it could just be a coincidence).

Climbs that last more than a few minutes are still a lot more pleasant in my 24T granny, but maybe I just need more practice.

I love my granny ring and I aint planning on changing any time soon. If I ever go 1 x 11, I will make sure it has the lowest gearing possible available - you don't have to use it, but if it aint there, you don't have the option

*swoon*

GEDA - Member

I am not saying I am awesome. There are some really really short very steep climbs around me and sitting down spinning does not work for me. I am not very good at it and as I said before spinning sitting on the saddle is not that great for technical climbs as it is hard to move you weight around for the techy bits.

Oh yeah, I mean, that's exactly where a low gear's often least useful, you need the short sharp power. Low gears are for reducing effort.

But you have to spin like crazy or you are going so slow that you have no forward momentum?

GEDA - Member

But you have to spin like crazy or you are going so slow that you have no forward momentum?

Yup, that's a proper hill.

You need more muscle to turn a bigger gear, but don't need to generate any more power. Power depends on the speed of the bike not the cadence. So, climbing with a higher gear seems hard at first, but once you've built up the required muscles it doesn't actually take any more effort to climb at the same speed with a lower cadence.

It's the difference between power and torque that's important. A higher cadence taxes the CV system and a lower cadence with a big gear taxes the big leg muscles, one is more sustainable than the other.

I've had a sore lower back for the past few months. Only sore enough to keep me off the bike on a few occasions, but permanently sore. The only thing that I can think that I've changed is this switch to lower cadence climbing (although it could just be a coincidence)

That'll be pushing that big gear up the hill then

I run a 1x 9 with 32t on the front.

I manage but by the end of the day it would be nice to have a more spinny rear cog. Just waiting for my x9 to wear out

But you have to spin like crazy or you are going so slow that you have no forward momentum?

Depends on how fast you're comfortable spinning - and if you're doing a massive climb at the end of a long day then moving slowly is better than not moving at all. I run 1x10 (34t 11-36) but I'm not sure if I would have it on everything if I lived somewhere with bigger hills/mountains or did long days or longer trips of riding frequently. 4 hour rides averaging just over 1000ft climbing per 10 miles seems to be my regular upper limit due to life getting in the way of more bike time...

Does anyone else find that a low gear, especially to the degree of a granny ring doesn't actually make things any easier, it just drags out the pain because they're going slower?

If im not getting up in my 34/36 gear, im not getting up in a 22/36 gear.

So are you saying that you do hills steeper than the quarry switch backs on Honister? I am impressed.

I'd quite like an 11-40 tooth with a 38T front chainring.

with 11-36 i either find I struggle to get up hills or I spin out on the road one or the other.

Another problem is that I spin out on the downs with a small ring.

GEDA - Member

Another problem is that I with a small ring you spin out on the downs

so not only are you great and better than everyone going uphill, you're also quicker than everyone downhill too ?

I rekon to spin out on a 34T front you'd need to be doing 25mph everywhere.

Does anyone else find that a low gear, especially to the degree of a granny ring doesn't actually make things any easier, it just drags out the pain because they're going slower?

I'd rather ride a bit slower than walk, very much horses for courses & depends what you are riding, what do you do on technical climbs, get off because the terrain wont allow you to push a big gear? Also depends on fatigue, you can start like a hero on a big day out but after manning it up the climbs all day you may feel different by the end.

Personally 30/36 seems like a good compromise for me, I'm not big into riding on tarmac

Another problem is that I with a small ring you spin out on the downs.

Exactly why I run a triple still.

Tried double and bash years ago and came back to a triple - gives the correct range of gears for my liking.

You need more muscle to turn a bigger gear, but don't need to generate any more power. Power depends on the speed of the bike not the cadence. So, climbing with a higher gear seems hard at first, but once you've built up the required muscles it doesn't actually take any more effort to climb at the same speed with a lower cadence.

From a physics POV you're correct but human bodies don't linearly. For example, you can't run a marathon at sprinting pace even though you're covering the same distance.

Working at different cadence means you're using different systems to power the bike - low cadence will work your muscles harder. For some people this is less of an issue than for others. Using low cadence though will typically cause fade during longer rides.

Anyway, the point is that you can clearly manage relatively big gears which presumably suits your physique. As it goes, I'm much the same though I've taught myself to spin more as it's more efficient for longer rides. Being able to spin up a hill at high cadence looks a bit silly sometimes but if you're doing it smoothly it can be a very good way to do it.

So are you saying that you do hills steeper than the quarry switch backs on Honister? I am impressed.

Different people climb things in different ways. Lighter, less muscly riders will likely spin a smaller gear. Riders who rely more on leg strength may be more comfortable slowly pushing a big gear. Either way can be just as quick. Just watch a peloton climb a hill and some will be grinding a big ring, others spinning the smaller ring.

From a physics POV you're correct but human bodies don't linearly.

Same power but turning force (torque) requirements are very different.

Never got the issue with spinning out.

Considering that pro dh racer will be on something around a 38t chainring, who here would be approaching those speeds off road?

If you spin out on road, it's time for manual/hop/nollie/what ever other dicking about you fancy doing.

Different people ride in different ways and want different things out of riding.

I couldn't give a monkeys if I didn't make it up the steep, slow climb, on the down, I try and pedal as little as possible, all speed generated through pump and line reading. It's different to an off road rider, one isn't better than the other if you're having fun.

But you have to spin like crazy or you are going so slow that you have no forward momentum?

'spin like crazy is relative though'

1:1 at 40rpm is about 2m/s (the absolute slowest I can reasnobly pedal for a short period).

3:4 (30t-40t) would be 53rpm (or I could drop to 1.3m/s which is walking speed).

Basicly XX1 or similar just makes climbs which you could just about do in normal gears more comfortable, and over 40+miles I'd definately apreciate that. To pick a well known trail, I can ride the XC climb at Innerleithen in 32-36, but it broke me, especialy on the back of doing the Black/Red/Blue at GT in the preceding 24 hours, and sleeping uner a hedge, being able to do it at 60rpm would have made it much more plesant.

But you have to spin like crazy or you are going so slow that you have no forward momentum?

News flash
A multi-chainring x 34T setup has 3 gears lower than 32x36

they aint all walking speed

I know this is a heretical suggestion for STW but we are all different and one solution does not work for all. I am an old bloke and need all the help I can get to reach the top of any hill. No amount of training and skills teaching are going to compensate for the fact that I don't have the ability that has been lost to age. If I was younger I would undoubtedly go for a 1x10/11 set up but now I need low gears!

I've Taken a bit of an analytical approach, I've worked up spreadsheets and I've been thinking in Gear inches for a while now, I've come to the broad conclusion that I personally need something in about the 80-20 Inch range (My current 2x9 Drivetrain exceeds this at either end (about 85-18).

I think the 1xN option with a Dinner plate is Very nearly there, A fancy pants XX1/X01 10-42 cassette with a 32t ring would meet my required range (Just not my budget) And if I were to go with one of the various products out there that squeezes a 42t onto a current 10 speed cassette(or 9 I suppose) I could balance the gearing to one end or the other of my optimal range, there still has to be a bit of a compromise I guess...

Some people are fit enough to work in a narrower, higher geared range I suppose, others are less bothered about having high gears and will fit a 30T to match the range to their ability/inability to grunt up in a tall gear...

I quite like the fact that 1xN drivetrains can be refined to suit their users needs a little more closely now...

I'm now eying up the idea of a 34T Chainring and a bodged 11-42 cassette at the minute, a clogged front mech and a bent chainring last weekend has precipitated things a bit... I'll probably leave the granny on for winching emergencies though...

Horses for courses IMO, its easy to rubbish others riding and equipment choices, quite another thing to stop and actually think about weather or not what you use actually suits your needs or could be improved... (IMO of course).

I like dinnerplate cassettes because they reflect my culinary habits 😉

I may need one of these to climb a hill, but I don't need the higher gears for going down the other side, as I have my own in-built 'Gravity Assist'

deanfbm - Member

one isn't better than the other if you're having fun.

This, as long as peopole are out riding bikes, having fun, who cares what gearing they're using! 😀

The Bike Police of course!

Ah, sorry I forgot about them!

Where do those who can’t possibly run 1x10 because it’s far too steep where they ride actually live / ride?

I think you’d be surprised by how quickly you adapt to 1x10 and how much quicker you ride. I always used the granny but when I went 1x10 I realised I only used it because it was there.

But maybe you're faster because it suits you and you ride places where the lack of a granny ring isn't an issue...

Well this is scaring me.

Raceface thick/thin 32t with 11-36 (10speed) has been ordered and is currently being fitted.......

after reading this I may never make it up a climb again!

clubber - ride in south Wales so pretty hilly with plenty of climbing. You can still spin with a 32 chainring and 11-36 cassette

Does anyone else find that a low gear, especially to the degree of a granny ring doesn't actually make things any easier, it just drags out the pain because they're going slower?

Spinning out? Agreed again, time to think about flow or pumping for speed and not worry about pedalling, or find a more technical descent.

As for triples vs 42T dinnerplates and SS etc, gearing is variable, to state the obvious.. do what you like.

I'm at the other end of the spectrum, i'd like to try a 22:42 setup! 😉

I think a lot of rider, and mountain bikers in particular say "if i can't get up it with X:X then i couldn't also get up in with Y:Y" are often missing the point that their gearing is not what is preventing them getting up said hill!
Doing some proper [s]road biking[/s] turbo or rollers work really makes you concentrate on proper pedaling technique, and the difference in power and traction is marked (compared to standing up, and just mashing down the pedals one at a time)

I've no idea with what cadence a world class XC racer climbs with, but i suspect it's higher than about 50rpm?

Does anyone else find that a low gear, especially to the degree of a granny ring doesn't actually make things any easier, it just drags out the pain because they're going slower?

nope
I can spin all day

32:36-12 1x9 is fine for me. Made it up snowdon rangers - rode 30-50%. It mostly wasn't lack gears holding me back.

ran 36:32 on a dmr sidekick (too small for xc really) for a while - didn't struggle on too much local stuff or indeed welsh stuff - had to walk a bit bus was still faster than granny gear riders.

There aren't any 2-3 hour granny ring climbs near where I live. But I don't really have the 150mm FS bike for the trails near where I live either.

Personally, I need a granny ring for big days out, so I have one on my bi days out bike. 🙂

big dummy you have a bi bike?

I think all my bikes are straight, but I do wonder about my Kona Bear

I've come to this discussion a bit late but do feel the need to answer the 5th post on page 1

alpin - Member
be interested to see how the OP fairs on long 2-3 hour alpine climbs with average gradient at 15%.....

chain left!

Who actually spends their time and money to take a mountain bike to the Alps to ride UP the hills when there's a fantastic lift system that lets you get in far more of the fun stuff than you ever would otherwise? I rode up an Alp off road once but never would again. Not because it hurt (it didn't) but because it seemed like such a waste of time. Tarmac and road bikes are far more pleasurable if you want to ride up big hills

I'm managing 1:1 (36:36) on my local hills for 3 hours. But I struggle on longer rides in big country.

Mostly Balanced - Member

Who actually spends their time and money to take a mountain bike to the Alps to ride UP the hills when there's a fantastic lift system that lets you get in far more of the fun stuff than you ever would otherwise?

We did this in the Pyrenees. it was, to be fair, pretty retarded.

Op, what do you weigh?

I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to say here but is there some sort of correlation between fitness and strength? I've recently changed my 22t granny for a 28t to remove the safety net a bit to see if I could get away with 1 x 10.
Sure, it's a little harder but I'm basically having to walk the same steep bits as before. It's not that I can't turn the pedals, I simply run out of puff, again as before. I'm more of a grinder, I rarely stand up.
Does there come a point where it's not that you're out of puff, it's that you can't turn the pedals? Is there some sort of sweet spot?

I run two 650 bikes - 1x10 (34 x 11-36|) on my race bike, which admittedly can be a bit of a grunt on a few courses in the UK, and 2x10 (28/40 x 11-36) on my full sus. There's more than a few climbs I can't clean in the Peak District on the HT, but can climb ok with the full sus.

I'd be very tempted by 1x11 if it didn't cost so much to do both bikes!

I'm with GEDA on this.
36 chainring with 11-34 covers everything as far as I'm concerned.
Race bike now sporting 36/15 singlespeed which is brutal but my god it's quick!

For the average MTBer, who rides enough to have "strong legs" i suspect o2 fitness is probably the limiting factor to short sharp climbs, (i.e ones of less than say 10min duration) They (and i include me in this!) simply haven't trained at a high enough heartrate/o2 exchange to keep outputing that level of power. The recent Guy Martin "Speed" series showed just that. Ie pretty strong and powerful for short bursts but not being able to keep that level of output up. The advantage of granny gears at that point is that for non technical long climbs you can just spin up them at a low speed (= low power) without getting off your bike.

Certainly i found when i started doing triathlons that even though i was what i would call a 'fairly' fit biker, i simply didn't have the breathing and cardiac performance over say a 1hr or longer stage.