Always try to be the one who’s prepped. Lugging the back back with the pump, multi tool, tubes, first aid kit.
Outside of a tubeless repair and total mechanical fail ending ride I haven’t had too much to deal with over the years.
So today had first time in a while with a rider down. Out of breath and a bit stressed I spent 10 mins trying to get them up and not lie on the ground as it was cold and wet. Totally forgot I had damn foil blanket in my bag! If it wasn’t me there first it would have been first thing I would have done.
Anyone else had similar? Anyone do drills or anything similar to keep first aid or outdoor skills fresh?
Oh yes. First Aid Training goes to pot once you have an injury in your group. To be fair, I’m usually the one who keeps it together, but, panic is just under the surface, and I try not to show it.
We had a bash on the head in November, blood dribbling down the face. I thought , immediately, stitches. On inspection, and after using every wipe in my bag, it was a tiny nick that just bled a lot for a few minutes. Once it was dry, it was the tiniest cut. then a topple and the guy was complaining his wrist hurt. Luckily we weere right near the end, maybe half a mile from the cars, so walked back slowly after firstly strapping the wrist up, then putting him in a sling. He got a lift to hospital, broken wrist. Thought about it afterwards, what could we do if we were 5 miles from base?
Training is the best you can do IMO. Do a proper outdoors / mountain type first aid course and reflection after events is also good. "what went wrong?" "How could I have avoided that?" "what could I have done better?" etc
Training in proper outdoor first aid is the first step. Then revise regularly. Build a first aid kit, then unpack it and revise it regularly.
As said above reflect on situations as and when they come up. What could you have done differently? What if it was worse than it turned out to be? Plan, plan and revise.
You’ll be more prepared than most if you take it seriously.
Recently some of our group were out at night, long story short:
One came off & smacked their head Concussion quickly recognised
Ambulance called which took them to hospital.
Issue was that no one had his other half’s contact details ( who was expecting to be picked up after the ride & would be panicking big time)
Lessons learned (basic really!):
Have everyone’s emergency contact details to hand
Have what3words in your phone- it was the first thing the emergency services asked for when they found out it was a rural location.
It's sobering in real world outside what you have trained for. Have done work first aid course but it simply doesn't translate to outdoors in the rain and cold.
Never really appreciated how naked we are on some rides.
Anyone know any good courses?
If you can make the search work there have been plenty of similar discussions in the past including some good links to first aid courses.
Its the knowledge and skills thats important - not whats in your bag
Training needs to be appropriate to the scenario. As an example healthcare staff like me are trained that if we find someone unconscious that you grab their shoulders, shake them and shout at them to see if you get a response. This is because at work the most likely thing we would be looking at it that case is a cardiac arrest type scenario. However in an outdoor setting thats probably not a good idea as spinal or head injury would be more likely
Thought about it afterwards, what could we do if we were 5 miles from base?
He could have just ridden his bike back with a broken wrist !
Or walked out.
I think there is a bit of a generational thing on this. Because I spent a lot of time the mountains pre mobile phones I grew up with the idea that you are self reliant if you can - because in those days to get help involved someone walking out of the mountains thus if the casualty can walk you self extract.
Just did my 2 day at work + forestry refresher last month and have also done the appointed person in the past. Have used it a couple of times over the years but luckily enough nothing too drastic.
The single most important rule is to avoid another casualty! That might mean instructing someone else to block a trail/path/road. After that it’s just basic common sense. Taking control of a situation quickly is the one thing that a drill might help with. Someone has to do that. When I’m out on a ride, I have no issues with it being me.
Just bear in mind that W3W isn't fool proof.
I'm with TJ but it is generational.
You can improvise virtauly all of a first aid kit. cable ties, belts etc for tourniquets (now back in), a tampon is the perfect wound plug. Grazes won't kill nor will dirt.Busted spine is the main worry or maybe open busted femur.
Agree W3W is generational, hence non of our group had it! We’ll have it as part of the tool box now.
The generational thing I referred to was not w3w but self extraction after injury
I'd be really embarrassed to call out mountain rescue for walking wounded. Its just a function of being the pre mobile phone generation
The OS Locate app gives you UK standard grid refs that all of the emergency services are familiar with.
The last few first aid courses I've done have all emphasised keeping things as basic as possible and that'sreally helped me keep things under control when faced with quite a variety of mishaps in the hills. I've had to do a course every 2 years to keep my ML certificate valid and I think that has helped reinforce everything as well.
Anyone looking for a course could do well to ask the local DofE association - they often have spaces available that need filling to keep costs down. I've done BASP courses as well in the past and they've been pretty cool.
I'm more worried if someone can't walk and you’re the only person with them, tied with no signal.
In this case some basic theory was there but didn't kick in. Seems sensible to be better prepared should anything happen in the future. On a budget so heading to the university of Youtube.
I was just wondering if groups of friends or informal riding groups did any decent prep or drills that I could learn from. Checked for outdoor specific courses but many seem to be pushing £1k or more. I just want to get a small group of friends better prepped.
I was just wondering if groups of friends or informal riding groups did any decent prep or drills that I could learn from.
Not really a good idea IMO unless you have a paramedic with mountain leaderships skills to hand ( or someone with both good skills and the ability to teach). You need a proper pro IMO
"He could have just ridden his bike back with a broken wrist "
Yep. Absobloodylutely.
My mate broke his collar bone once.
Middle of the arse end of nowhere (in N Wales). 2 of us. No mobile signal anywhere. January. Mid week. Not likely to see anyone useful. And furthest point from the car of course.
After sorting him the best I could and checking him over (I did have a self-put-togther 1st aid selection in a waterproof bag) got his arm in a sling to support it. Dropped his saddle. Got more clothing on him. Found a track / fire road and rode out a few miles to a road, nice and steady, him 1 handed. Me behind, especially once onto road. Rode as far as we had to to the 1st small town. Deposited him in the fish+chip shop (it was warm !) and I continued the rest if the way to get his car and go back to retrieve him. Then off to Bangor A+E to get sorted.
No need to trouble Mountain Rescue. Or an ambulance. Be Self Sufficient. We both knew a reasonable amount of 1st aid, and the right mindset to sort ourselves out. And did have at least a bit of spare kit just in case.
Unless your head has detached or legs fallen off, save MR for when they are actually needed !
(We've also ended up helping someone pole-axed in the middle of the trail on a different trip. Good job for him we knew WTF to do and had a couple of the space blankets as they were useful.
I've also had to deal with 2 separate unconcious riders in the road when out in the car too. (Lesson from one of those... the 1st aid kit that came in the car was shiiite and ****all use !)
Get some training folks !! And carry some spare kit - you're not racing the TdF where every last gram matters !
Issue was that no one had his other half’s contact details ( who was expecting to be picked up after the ride & would be panicking big time)
Years ago, a guy, relatively new in our cycle club, crashed in Richmond Park. He'd managed to give his name to the police/ambulance etc that turned up but was too far gone to give anything else. I didn't witness the incident, only finding him by chance as I was riding round supposed to meet him and then putting 2+2 together when I saw the incident.
Established with the police that it was him, got his phone off him but it was turned off and he couldn't remember the PIN to unlock it and trying to get him to give either his PIN or his home phone number resulted in a load of gibberish. So no-one had anything to call his wife.
He was completely out of it - massively concussed and on painkillers.
It took the police HOURS to trace his next of kin (very common surname) and his wife was going absolutely spare when they finally turned up at her door at 2am.
*This was pre-Strava, pre-smartphone etc
After that the club recommended that all riders carry a small card with emergency contact info. I still carry one now - self made, laminated with emergency contacts, blood type, and my ID so that if I'm found dead / seriously injured at the side of the road, it won't result in huge delay in finding out who I am or who to call.
thus if the casualty can walk you self extract.
I self extracted with a broken collar bone once. I could walk (could actually ride one handed on smooth surfaces) and from where we were it would have taken MR ages to reach us involving 4x4 ambulance etc and we weren't waiting for all of that!
Got home and, knowing that the hospital would cut my Rapha jacket and top off to minimise movement, I wasn't having that either so I very slowly and painfully got undressed, had a shower then put normal clothes on and took myself to hospital on the bus!
Taking control of a situation quickly is the one thing that a drill might help with. Someone has to do that. When I’m out on a ride, I have no issues with it being me.
When it's happened on a club ride I've also at times been that person and actually I'm pretty sure the others are comforted by the fact 'someone' has taken charge.
On that - you absolutely don't want another casualty but as well as assessing imminent danger, eg. on a road or trail, like other cars or riders, I nearly had a second casualty as a result of them just panicking a bit over what they'd seen. So don't underestimate possibly assigning someone to tend to them, or give them a job away from the immediate scene to keep them busy and avoid another one down!
Part of being a club is that we mandate having accessible ICE details, we even issue small dogtag like cards you can ziptie to a cable or saddle rail. I have a rubber wristband. Even on a mates ride might be worth mentioning next time you go out if you don't know everyone else's other half already.
Lastly - not advocating a call to 999 / MR for every incident but if in any doubt I'd be tempted. Even if to report they're mobile and your plan, to give a heads up so if it did deteriorate they can also be prepared.
The OS Locate app gives you UK standard grid refs that all of the emergency services are familiar with.
I gave a grid reference to Cambridgeshire Constabulary to locate an abandoned car on a bridleway a few hundred metres from an A road. It took a *lot* of explaining, and I don't know if they ever figured it out.
I gave a grid reference to Cambridgeshire Constabulary to locate an abandoned car on a bridleway a few hundred metres from an A road. It took a *lot* of explaining, and I don’t know if they ever figured it out.
I gave a grid reference to Keswick Mountain Rescue and they asked me to back it up with a description of where I was. I guess they get a lot of people who accidentally transpose digits or who simply don't know how to read a map. When I said the name of the trail and an approx location (x miles south of Y) they just said "yep, we're all good, see you soon".
However, a friend had to give location info to the ambulance service and they simply would not or could not accept anything other than a postcode - kind of difficult on a rural road miles between two small country villages. She tried W3W and the operator just kept asking what she was banging on about saying "anorak.curtain.door" (or whatever it was). This was a few years ago now so maybe they've updated their systems since then.
Happy to use What3words or give GPS if serious. Wouldn't dream of calling rescue for myself or someone that could walk.
The course mentioned above looks perfect. Looks like it will cover when to self manage Vs call in help and much more. Seems just as useful, if not more than the average bike upgrade these days.
Complex open fracture of my radius, protruding enough that the end of the bone cut my cheek open eventually requiring stitches as my (then broken) arm went into my face.
Rolled over, wished the random guys I was riding with a good day, pushed my bike to the end of the rock garden and onto the fire road, rode 10k back to the car park, packed my bike in the car one handed and drove manual 30 miles to the hospital and checked myself into a+e.
I don't know what speshul first aid and/or training would have done in that situation.
You're either bad enough that you need an ambulance (in which case, you REALLY need an ambulance) and then the only things that you need to prevent are internal / catastrophic bleeding (nothing your AVG first aid kit can do, maybe bodge a tourniquet) or environmental issues whilst you wait.
In short, carry a space blanket and a mobile phone. You aren't in the Amazon. You aren't a professional. Just do all you can to make life easier for those who are.
ouch ouch ouch continuity.
thats right at the edge of self extraction for me I think.
I don’t know what speshul first aid and/or training would have done in that situation.
Immobilise the wrist add assess for shock?
What would you have done if you'd then gone into shock while riding back solo, or worse while driving? While I admire your fortitude, I can't think that's sensible for an open fracture of the arm!!
A young med student friend of mine crashed riding sweep as medical support (!) at an Enduro race - dislocated his shoulder and was bragging that he reduced it himself in under 2 mins. Photo of him smiling at his achievement in his sling (will need a full reconstruction).
A much older guy (70s) rode a steep techy 5km back to his car with a broken collarbone, clamped his hand to the handlebar and gritted his teeth.
On the other hand, I know that after an incident like that I will get mild shock, go pale as a sheet, get cramp in my right calf and shortly after black out. I think i'd prefer to wait for an ambulance than risk blacking out when i'm not sitting/lying down.
The biggest one I don't get is abandoning mates / carry on riding while a friend needs help.
I hear about it so often.
Why? Why does anyone's ride come before an injury?
+1 on having some next if kin / ICE on your phone lock screen. It's easy to set up.
As for the OP's question, I find that proper scenarios help. But then I've had the luxury of working outdoors and having annual staff training in between first aid, where we would often pop in a burn in the kitchen, crashed bike, run over foot, slipped on ice etc type things. We also unpick and discuss every incident, near miss and regularly the positive decisions made - including when first aid was required.
As a usual punter, I think it's difficult. If I look back at the serious issues I've dealt with or my team have dealt with, it can be really great difficult to predict what the incident is and where it happens.
My biggest incident made BBC999 and STW - sadly the article was lost on the big STW hack. Thankfully my friend survived, not what we expected at the time.
We also unpick and discuss every incident, near miss and regularly the positive decisions made – including when first aid was required.
What I know as "reflective practice" IMO a key factor in improving practice