I'm mulling getting my first new FS in 10 years. Ideally looking for something to take a 140 - 150mm fork, at least bearable at climbing but the focus is more on being capable downhill. No preference on frame material.
Very taken with what I've read on the Highlander, but less so with the price. It's definitely a contender though. Has anyone on here ridden one? Ditto the Occam, especially as I can be a tart and customise the colours.
Would prefer a smaller brand, so not considering a Stumpjumper (also dislike Spesh), though the Fuel looks decent. What else should I be looking at?
Very taken with what I’ve read on the Highlander, but less so with the price. It’s definitely a contender though. Has anyone on here ridden one?
Yep, bought one. I’m totally sold on high pivots with an idler. Feels like bottomless suspension travel, but then climbs pretty well too. Anything specific you want to know?
the ones i've been considering have been pace rc295 / hope sb130 / SC tallboy (/hightower)
i opted occam due to the m10 kit + reasonable priced fox36 upgrade.
the deviate looks lovely, hadnt realised the frame only was that kind of price, i was expecting another K on top.
Thanks Tom, the suspension does sound great. No issues with the idler yet? I read in one review about a sticky wheel which has made me worry about reliability. Did you try any other bikes before going for the Highlander?
Ah, hadn't heard of the Pace, will check that out too...
Bird? AM9 should match the brief.
deviate highlander does look cool. defo check out the santa cruz hightower too, really solid bike.
If downhill capability is the focus, I'd add a RocketMAX to the list.
(Caveat. In true STW fashion it's what I have)
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Classic 'reccomend your own' but I am in love with my 2020 Hightower. Bought an alloy frame only as I think thats the sweet spot - Carbon is a LOT more, and the SC builds are pretty awful VFM.
The Alloy frame however is right in line with lots of the other options (Cheaper than an Orange Stage 5, for instance) but you get the same quality, same lifetime bearings, warranty etc.
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My last FS was a Tallboy Gen 1, which I lovvvvved, so will have a look at the Hightower.
Ditto the Bird. Pricing looks very competitive on those too...
It does take a bit of time to free up (that goes for the frame bearings too), maybe a couple of rides but I don’t notice it now.
I’m really not worried about the reliability, I’ve had a Guide for 2 years with no problems, and even if I did, spares seem readily available.
Didn’t try anything else, had a demo based on how good the Guide is, and this is more suited to trail riding (vs the winch and plummet of the Guide) so was a no brainer.
Forbidden druid?
I had lots of issues with the demo bike I had, very stiff linkages and stiff idler wheel.
Been told
after some investigating they found some issues with demo bikes (and a few other bikes) due to the sealing and bearing pre-load configuration.
Starling Murmur.
You can thank me later.
I'm looking at demoing the Highlander as being sent up to that part of the world by work next month. Be interesting to see how it rides. I'm a similar boat bike wise, I think a 29er trail bike might be more suited to what I ride, but I'm on the cusp height wise for the wagon wheels, my hardtail is ok but full suss worries me a bit. Also thinking about a Banshee prime, which you can mullet, but finding a demo of one is a nightmare.
Depending on my mood:
Druid - If I felt like taking a risk & potentially being shafted on warranty or spares. Ditto the new Sentinel.
Hightower - Safe choice, good support, rides really well. Ideal one bike solution.
Fuel EX - Ford Mondeo. Boring, very safe - great bike, but not exactly inspiring.
The Murmur is beautiful, had completely forgotten about that.
Hobnob - that's a good summary. Can see myself ending up with a Fuel and having mild buyer's regret I hadn't got something more niche.
I’m toying with something similar. The 2 other not on your list I want to try if possible are the forbidden Druid and the evil offering
I'd be looking at the starling too.
But I like my orange stage 6 too much to change it.
Worth a demo on an orange if they are of interest at all, the new ones are light and very fast with great geometry.
The Pipedream full Moxie is another one from a small brand .
I've also got a Highlander and truly, it is the best bike I've ridden. I've tried my fair share, but the combination of travel, geometry and the high pivot is spot on for me.
It is happy in the steeps as well as comfortable for a full days peddling.
As for warranty, I had a Guide off the Deviate guys, it developed a couple issues but Ben was spot on and provided exceptional support. Fully recommended.
This is mine:
I'd go for an HB.130 with a 140mm 36 and coil rear.
Another recommend what you ride. I'm in the Deviate camp as well. Been riding a highlander for a couple of months. Absolute weapon of a bike. I have coil both ends though which just makes the bike feel so good. But the X2 I had on before was not bad in any way.
It climbs so well, no need for lockout, then point it down. Its a very tight bike in that you know its 140mm at the back but it still handles everything with aplomb. I'm riding Dunkeld /Pitlochry / Ballo all the time and I never feel I'm out my depth.
Bruneep the demo bike you had. Was that one of the ones that was up Ballater way? My mate lives up there and had one for a couple of days. He wasn't that impressed but then had a play on mine which he said felt very different in a good way. Not sure if ben at deviate is taking care off the demo bikes as well as he should.
But I honestly can't recommend the highlander enough as a trail / enduro bike.
Geometron G13? Yeti SB130?
I have a Forbidden Druid. It's a great bike and I love it compared to my RipmoV1.
It's fantastic on rough trails with lots of repeat hits.
It does however have a minimum speed and if you're using the back brake it definitely reduces the effectiveness of the suspension (it's my first single pivot bike in a while so this is very noticeable to me). This is happens especially on really steep sections unsurprisingly. I can almost feel the bike going "get off the brakes you fool".
I have a 2020 Orange Stage 5. It is very good.
Bruneep the demo bike you had. Was that one of the ones that was up Ballater way
I'm guessing it would be.
Jeffsy?
Yeah, the Orange Stage is another I should consider for sure.
Good feedback on the Highlander, I clearly need to get a go on one of the working demo bikes.
Has anyone ridden a Murmur to compare it any of the other bikes?
I like the look of the highlander, but isnt the idler wheel just another thing to do your head in on a muddy british ride?
Another recommend what you own:
Admittedly not the most on trend brand in the world but its a seriously good value, capable bike.
I like the look of the highlander, but isnt the idler wheel just another thing to do your head in on a muddy british ride?
I can't get past the idea of my shorts getting caught and dragging me inexorably to my doom like a 70s sales rep being pulled into a shredder by his paisley tie.
Bird AM9 or Aeris 9? The latter recently released in carbon but a ally one is in the pipeline from what I read on here.
I like the look of the highlander, but isnt the idler wheel just another thing to do your head in on a muddy british ride?
That idler concept - not so sure - must be under a hell of a lot of sheer force and it has to introduce a lot more inefficiency to the drivetrain surely.
Nice looking bike otherwise. I too am looking for my first new fs in about 10 years. I don't think I'm going to be able to justify more than Bird money though.
Another vote for the Bird AM9, as usual
Occam is more a trail bike I think, compared to things like AM9 which are more enduro?
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/orbea-occam-m-ltd-2020-review/
https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/orbea-occam-m10-2020-review-one-bike-many-purposes/
Stick a 150mm fork and a coil shock on the occam and its a capable enduro bike.
Forbidden have a longer travel bike in the works, but tbh the 130mm of the druid would be enough for most.
I'll take one in cosmic eggplant. Yum.
If we're doing normal STW rules, then my own Jeffsy is also a very capable mini-enduro bike.
29er, 150mm front and rear, fox 36 and (as of today) a Cane Creek DBcoil IL
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I've got a Murmur, but not ridden the other bikes.
G13 OR G1 in any configuration you like
Highlander looks lovely. Not ridden outside the car park. Occam is lovely and I can answer questions / offer advice if you like. Just drop me a mail, loads of people do and to be honest it’s all pretty quiet now so I have plenty of time to answer.
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Seems like we're all recommending what we have.
Depending on where you decide travel wise, Ripmo v2 carbon Deore build? 2Pure are shit at updating the UK site, but if they follow the US spec(as has happened with the AF) it should be around 4.5k, and gets you DVO Topaz(or Jade coil for £100 more), DVO Onyx, rebranded Stan's wheelset, 4 pot Shimanos, and 12sp Deore.
Or the same in alloy (gaining about 2lb) can be had for under 3k.
How about a Whyte S150
Just sold mine and bought an Orbea Rallon and kind of wish I'd kept it now.
Yeah, I’m looking at Whytes too. Though I’ve read the frame designs are getting updated in 6 months and I know I’d be moody if the new one turned out to be the promised land of MTBs...
This was me a couple months ago. I had a Highlander for a long weekend. The yellow/orange demo one, which is old frame design (new one is lighter and better cable routing). If demoing, ask for the blue one 🙂
It was the best bike i have ever ridden downhill, better than my Nomad was.
It was a heavy build with Assegi tyres so wasnt great climbing but gave immediate confidence and matched my pb on a medium hard trail i have ridden 30 + times.
However i ended up buying a HB130. Why? I wanted something a bit more "trail", better on the ups although the highlander was better going down, felt the Hope was a better all round bike. I did put more travel on the fork though and beefed up the tyres....
The others I considered were:
Hightower - just didnt feel right
Sentinel - mate has one so nope!
Am 9 - sorry, just not "special" enough at this price point
Radon slide 29 - bought a Canyon before and didnt want the bike in a box thing again.
If you want an enduro bike thats different, got a small but passionate team behind it and which will smash the downs and can put up with not being the best on red/blue trails or big ups get a Highlander.
I've got an occam. Entry level h30. It's a great all rounder. Been in the Surrey hills on it and on long rides. Really good at going up hills. Great value for money too. Good kit on it for the price. The Marzocchi z2 fork is nice and simple but with fox technology.
Good bike for the price.
Also interested in this area, but put off by the poor sounding warranty on the Highlander. Lifetime, but only for the original owner, and not if using it on DH tracks (according to their site). So, say I take it for an uplift day at Innerleithen, or Fort William or Dunkeld? What's the difference between most DH tracks and enduro tracks up here?
Bearings not covered either, but not sure if anyone other than SC does that.
The new Bird Aether 9C does tick a lot of boxes for me (especially customisation options).
A lot of warranties don’t cover riding outside the intended use of the bike, only cover the original owner, and don’t cover bearings, and only cover manufacturing defects.
Difference here is they are spelling out what it doesn’t cover. That said, if you did have any problems, I’m confident they would sort you out. As an example, they were sending frames out with loaner shocks while they waited for actual stock to come in that had been oredered. Not sure I know of any other bike company to have done that
What’s the difference between most DH tracks and enduro tracks up here?
More jumps and an uplift?
What’s the difference between most DH tracks and enduro tracks up here?
I’ve heard red trail centres can be pretty rough on bikes (especially after sending them down the 50/01 line at revs 😉)
My thoughts on the Deviate Highlander above.
Compared to a Hightower, it is a better bike in my opinion. Plusher over stutter bumps and roots, feels nicer on the climbs and feels more capable on the downs. Overall, an excellent bike.
If budget does not allow then I would say Canyon Strive. Pound for pound, it is the best value 29er I have ever ridden for the big mountain riding that I enjoy.
Hope this is of some help?
Cheers
Sanny
It does however have a minimum speed and if you’re using the back brake it definitely reduces the effectiveness of the suspension (it’s my first single pivot bike in a while so this is very noticeable to me). This is happens especially on really steep sections unsurprisingly. I can almost feel the bike going “get off the brakes you fool”.
Posted 18 hours ago
This is just the way I'd describe my Stage 6, it's part of the character of the bike so I don't mind, but I'm surprised to hear you notice the same thing with an idler bike.
I'd naively assumed the magic rock-smoothing effect would happen whether the brakes were on or off.
Would still love to try one, but I'd be drawn more to the Forbidden than Deviate - due to the reputations of those involved - and part of me is still sceptical about needless weight and complexity.
“This is just the way I’d describe my Stage 6, it’s part of the character of the bike so I don’t mind, but I’m surprised to hear you notice the same thing with an idler bike.
I’d naively assumed the magic rock-smoothing effect would happen whether the brakes were on or off.”
The higher the main pivot, the greater the brake squat, so high pivot idler designs suffer the most. Having a linkage with a progressive rate can help hide it a bit, as will the rearward axle path, but they’re still very much bikes that like you to brake short and hard before the corners and then let them roll. That’s why they work so well under WC DH riders.
It might be possible to make a high pivot bike without tons of brake squat if you combined Trek ABP / DW Split Pivot with a high pivot and idler. The ABP bikes act like single pivots when pedalling but four bar when braking.
@sanny that bike looked a lot shinier in your review than when I had it lol.
P.S. another reason I turned down the Highlander was transport. The low shock/burly frame means it didnt fit any of my roof bike racks and I cant get a towbar on my car. Inside is not an option as regurally have 3 in the car biking.
I've ridden the Highlander twice, once for a day on some steep and rocky Malaga trails and at the FoD on less bonkers singletrack. Both times I was coming off my RipMo V1. For me
- the back end on the Highlander is amazing, the most controlled suspension system I've ridden. Just brilliant. Made the fork feel a bit rubbish
- it's a very easy bike to ride. Having ridden the M and the L, I might have gone with the M even tho I'm nearly 6ft. Really felt 'inside' that bike.
- It pedals well. You look at the suspension design and think 'that's going to be odd' but it just isn't. It's got gobs of traction and it doesn't feel like there's more resistance than a normal setup. However both rides were in the bone dry.
- The RipMo climbs better. Not much diff in the weight but swapping bikes, both my mate and I noticed how much easier the fireroad climbs were on the RipMo. Maybe less difference on a technical climb.
I didn't notice sticky pivots on either demo. My overall impression it was closer to an 'enduro' type bike than a 'trail bike'. I know that's marketing toss but basically for all day riding I'd prefer my RipMo, for uplift/technical steep stuff I'd have the Highlander every time.
Still for context I prefer my V1 to the V2 RipMo.
Currently in the same boat looking at something similar for next year. Fancied the Ripmo AF, but bushings rather than bearings in the pivots has put me off it- you would be endlessly changing them out here in Scotland.
Current contender for me is the Giant Reign 29. Fair enough, it's not a 'boutique brand', but looks very good value for money and made by one of the best frame manufacturers in the world, with an excellent suspension system.
If you want a capable, lightish all rounder I really rate the Stage 6. Better than the Bird AM9 or RipmoAf imo.
Another option for a DH bias is the Stanton Switch9erFS which is a beast for a 140mm rear travel bike but it aint light. Climbs well though.
Hadn’t considered the Strive, another to add to the list. I really need to start demoing some of these.
My head has been turned by the Murmur, will definitely email Starling to see if I can get a test on one of those. The reviews make it sound right up my strasse.
Liteville 301? Fantastic attention to detail Teutonic design. Lightweight, transferable warranty (although I’ve never seen anyone with warranty issues). Latest version is more progressive design so less perched riding position. Brilliant all round trail bike.
Ah, great shout. I’ve had Liteville longings for years...
Where are you location wise?
Anywhere near the Fod and you can try my Starling.
I have a Reign 29er on test - the base model carbon version with Rock Shox front and rear. The suspension design is very good indeed - it is as plush as I need it to be. It pedals well up the hills although (and this is not an issue unique to Giant) I have been unable to get the SRAM chainset off to switch to a smaller front ring. A torque setting of 54 Nm is really high and even with a breaker bar, I've not been able to remove it for fear of stripping the bolt. I much prefer the Shimano design for cranks. It may not seem like a big deal but it would be enough to put me off buying a bike. I had the same issue with a Canyon Strive last year too. My mechanic who works on the World Cup DH circuit and I battled to get it off but in the end conceded defeat as we did not want to damage the cranks nor the frame itself.
But back to the Reign 29 - a really nice bike that feels capable up and down. I would like to see a bit more steerer tube though as it is a little too low at the front for my tastes. It would benefit from a higher rise bar. Overall though, it is definitely worth a closer look and a test ride. It is a nice bike that does everything really well.
I think the base model in alloy would be the bike of choice if you want to stay below 3 grand. Carbon is nice but it doesn't deal with knocks and dunts in the way that alloy does.
Cheers
Sanny
A torque setting of 54 Nm is really high and even with a breaker bar, I’ve not been able to remove it for fear of stripping the bolt.
Something is amiss there. I use a regular torque wrench, with arms that make TDF climbers look stacked, and while it takes a heft, they go in/come out without me being concerned for the threads.
Fancied the Ripmo AF, but bushings rather than bearings in the pivots has put me off it- you would be endlessly changing them out here in Scotland.
Without wishing to get off topic, I've had the bushings out twice to check them. In two year/4000km of ownership including lots of wet rides (a week in Finale shuttling in very wet conditions included) and there is no noticeable wear at all.
As per Ibis instructions, pop them back in with a very light film of grease and forget about them for a year! The bearings on the upper link tho are a different proposition!
A torque setting of 54 Nm is really high and even with a breaker bar, I’ve not been able to remove it for fear of stripping the bolt.
Aye, it's slightly worry-inducing. The loud crack when mine finally let go on a brand new carbon frame was an 'interesting' moment. It's a crappy bit of design for this (and other reasons), and I mentally adjust the net price of removing and replacing the SRAM chainset with Shimano when considering a new bike.
Evil Offering?
141 rear, 140/150/160 front.
Can be setup as a poppy trail flyer, or as a downhill bruiser.
