12 speed upgrade - old 10 speed deore

Do you actually want 12 speeds? It'll be easier to make 1x10 set up. You can get wide range 10 speed cassettes and your existing shifter and chainset will be fine. You'll want a new rear mech for the wide range and ideally a NW chainring.

12 speed is going to mean new everything (including wheels).

10 speed Deore will be the cheapest route to 1x (it’s what I use).

11 speed Deore can give you a wider range with only a bit more expense than 10 spd.

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If you do buy a new shifter… that tends to be the best place to spend the extra money (they last, are out of the way of damage, it’s where most of the “feel” of the shift lives, and with some generations higher groupset shifters have more shifting options… I pair a Saint shifter with Deore rear mech & cassette ).

You could get wider range gears by buying a 10 speed Deore 11-46 cassette like this:

https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-deore-m4100-cassette-10-speed-221879.html

And why not just get this cheap Deore chainset?

https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-deore-mt511-single-12-speed-chainset-with-chainring-299204.html

Then you might need a new mech to handle the bigger rear cog, and a new chain obvs.

I don't think there's much to be gained from having the extra cogs, I'm still on 11sp and it's not held me back at all.

I have a longitude and ditched the 2x pretty quickly as I always felt like I was in the wrong gear at the front.

As long as your shifter and derailleur are still in good condition, you could do what I've done for pretty low cost. Certainly much cheaper than an 11 speed setup.

I replaced the front rings with a 30t Race Face N/W ring (kept the stock cranks), then used a cheap derailleur hanger extender and a 11-46t Shimano cassette at the back. New chain if necessary.

You'll lose a bit of top end speed but I find the gear spread to be ideal for bikepacking use. Ditching the front derailleur also means you can get a proper 27.5x3.0" tyre in the back too!

There are 12-speed cassettes that fit HG hubs; SRAM NX, notably, and then some third party (Subrace) ones. Top gear is 11-tooth, not 12,  but it's possible.

I seem fine with 11-speed Deore and 11-51.

Really, the upgrade is going to be going 1x, not the number of cogs out back. You can get to 11-46 on 1x10 and keep your right shifter. The change will be your ratios are more spread out, of course...

12 speed is going to mean new everything (including wheels).

No it doesn't.  There are plenty of Hyperglide compatible 12 speed cassettes out there.

In reality, you'll end up buying much the same components if you go 1x10, 1x11 or 1x12.

1x10 I assume you'll want a wider range cassette, probably a mech extender to clear your mech of the wider cassette, chainring, and new chain as well as new gear cable inner and maybe outer.  Depending on how worn your current mech/shifter are, it could be an opportune time to refresh.

1x11 or 1x12 will be a new cassette, chain, chainring, mech, shifter and cables (new shifter will have a new inner with it)

1x12 will be more 'future proof'.  1x11 will give you almost the same gear range but for slightly less money.

is the slx mech/ shifter noticeably better?

Honestly, no.  SLX mech looks a little nicer (IMO) and I'm sure Shimano would argue it's made of stronger components.  The shifter is pretty much identical ... again at least from an external, visual, performance feel perspective.

Another vote for 1x10 Deore. One of my bikes has this, the other 1x11Xt and there is very little real world  difference between the two. 12spd will just be more expensive with very few benefits.

1×12 will be more ‘future proof’

Not so sure about this. Shimano seem to be making a new range of drivetrains in 10 speed at the low to mid level. 13 speed will be out at some point at the top end but I think we will still see a lot of 10 speed around.

On a personal note after the CRC fire sale I have enough 10 speed to keep me going for a very long time 🙂

10 or 11 speed is considerably cheaper than pretty much everything 12 speed as well.

I'm running 1x10 Deore on a couple of bikes with M5100 rear mechs and a microshift 11-48 cassette on either (they'll accommodate up to a 51t though). All parts bought cheap in various sales.

general benefits; I can still run old HG hubs, I didn't need new shifters and the 5100 Mechs mean I have a future upgrade path to 11 speed if I want (allegedly they work with 12 speed too?).

The main question normally is what type of crank does it have and how available are N/W rings to suit?

I don't reckon 12 speed is a substantial enough benefit to most people to go out of your way to upgrade an existing bike, obviously if buying a new bike it's a different proposition, but if your just renewing an existing drivetrain keep changes minimal, going to 1x is perfectly viable with 10 speed though.

10 or 11 speed is considerably cheaper than pretty much everything 12 speed as well.

RRP price, absolutely but keep your eye out on eBay and all of the usual suspect sites and new 12 speed stuff can be had for very little more, particularly at Deore or NX level.

As steezy has mentioned my motivation for 1x is that I’ve got 3.0 coronados on it and don’t want to lose a low gear for loaded bikepacking on big nasty climbs. Not worried about going fast, the bike is my “4x4 pick up sort of bike” so top end speed isn’t a massive worry.

I want to move the best bits of the existing 2x groupset to my wife’s genesis latitude as that’s 3 x ! I think 1 x 11 is the way to go then. Need to make sure I get the right gear ratios to not leave myself short when climbing.

any good 11 sp bargains about anywhere?

Nothing crazy in the UK right now... Merlin have the 11-51 M5100 cassette and the rear mech you need to go with it, at okay prices.

https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-deore-m5100-cassette-11-speed-265331.html

https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-deore-m5100-rear-derailleur-11-speed-265337.html

If going 11sp, I'd suggest getting an XT shifter for a better overall feel - and I think it might do multiple gears quicker.

Anything above 10spd is unnecessary, imo....

10spd has better, crisper shifting and with wide range cassettes negates the need for 2x upfront.

GF's gravel bike has Tiagra and it makes better shifts without any need for adjustment compared to my 11spd 105.

Old mtb with Sunrace 10spd wide cassette das more than adequate.

Gearsets

11 speed Deore 11-46 hyperglide cassette £105 - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/386999786469

12 speed Deore 11-52 hyperglide cassette £106 -  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/196323909821

Wider range cassette, XT or Saint shifter to get the double or triple up/downshift on the one stroke, maybe a good used/NOS M781 or 786 mech. I've pretty much landed on this formula and have an alert set up for M781/6 on my local marketplace site as it works so well.

Thread update...

Bought a 11-51 Deore 11 speed cassette - HG and a Deore rd- m5100 sgs rear mech and 11 sp deore shifter as well as a new kmc chain.

I also bought a new narrow wide chainring for the old crank but got the wrong bcd. So many sites don't quote the bcd of their chainrings which is a pain.

Ive just tried to set it up with the old deore chains with the std 36t chainring.

Couple of issues;

1. The chain contacts the tyre when on the big sprocket.
2. The mech seems too close to the cassette. When shifting down the mech gets in the way of the chain somehow. might be ive not set the cable tension yet but I'm not super clear as to where the mech sits with these new Shimano 11 sp mechs. The longitude is obvs a horizontal dropout and the axle is as far forward as it can go. Do I need a mech hanger extender?

Cheers.

Burko

I put Microshift AdventX 11-48 cassette on my old hardtail, which I'd previously bodged from 3x9 to 2x9 22-36 (still on original Shimano triple crankset).

Very happy with the Microshift stuff 10 gears and the range from 11-48 is plenty.

pacman - I'm a bit beyond buying micro shift but good to hear....

What’s the limit for a front chainring with a 51 tooth rear cassette? Any ideas?

I don't think there are limits for front chairing sizes unless you are going massive and it fouls the chainstay.

For your other problems, is the 36t chairing the inner one? Put the new chairing on the outer tabs, the chain line should still be OK.

For 2, sounds like the B screw isn't set right. Follow a setup guide on YouTube once you've got all the new bits installed.

Yep 2. Was  the b screw.

I’ve got the chainring on the outer of the two ring positions, ie not on the old granny ring position. I think it needs to go out more as it’s fouling the tyre in the biggest sprocket.

interested to hear if anyone else has successfully run 11sp with 3.0 tyres on a longitude. It may be the tyres are just too wide.

Tyre size was going to be my next suggestion. Yeah, I think you've just hit the extremes of different compatibility limits on parts that frame was never intended for.

I think you’re right although the frame was marketed as being able to take a 3” tyre IIRC. Steezy on here is running one by and 3.0” tyres so be interested to hear how/ what. I’ve got coronados on mine on the original scraper rims.

Might even dial in the limit screw and run it 10 sp for a while. Would a wider chainset help? Currently running  the original but with only the big ring. Was going to put a 32 on there but might go nuts and buy a deore chainset as a 30t chainset is only around £50 and I’ll always use it on another project if needs be.  Someone mentioned that you can also add another bb cup spacer on the drive side to push the chain line out a bit. Might try that?

If you put an extra spacer in the chain line to the largest sproket might be horrible, but it is a simple thing to try. Possily you'll have to choose which edge case configuration you prefer, or you may get lucky after some experimentation. Unlikely anyone has tried your exact set-up before.

@burko73 - I was running the original WTB Scraper 35 rims with Ranger 3.0" tyres, I've now switched to slightly wider LB carbon rims and 2.8" Schwalbe Johnny Watts which come up slightly narrower, but not much.

Up front it's a Raceface 30t N/W ring (that has the female threads built in) and it's mounted on the 104bcd part of the original crankset. I think I remember that the 2x crankset has boost chainline, not 100% on that though!

Out back it's the original 10sp derailleur mounted on a Ali/ebay extender with a 10sp chain and a Shimano 11-46t cassette.

In lowest gear I've got about 1cm of space between chain and tyre, can't remember it rubbing when I had the 3.0" Rangers on there, at least not enough to cause issues.

Not sure why you're getting tyre rub, unless 11sp cassettes are wider than 10sp? I though they are the same but have closer spaced cogs...

Hope that helps, I've (hopefully) added some photos, let me know if you need me to take any more! And yes, my bike is dirty, I just got in from riding...

Cheers

Holy sh*t, it actually worked!?

cheers thew and steezy.

what shifter are you using steezy? are you on the original BB? I didn't think the original BB/ crank was boost? What's the width between your outer faces of the bb cups?

is an 11sp cassette (HG 11-51) likely to be wider than a 10SP 11-36?

I'm in a similar situation as my bodged wide range 9 speed setup has never held 2nd gear, and chain and cassette are now worn!

Thinking about going for an slx setup from AliExpress,

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002598462604.html?spm=a2g0n.shopcart.0.0.1dbe38da9S2T5I&mp=1

And then maybe upgrading to a lighter cassette later.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004861397962.html?src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&gclsrc=aw.ds&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&gclsrc=aw.ds&albagn=888888&ds_e_adid=&ds_e_matchtype=&ds_e_device=m&ds_e_network=x&ds_e_product_group_id=&ds_e_product_id=en1005004861397962&ds_e_product_merchant_id=107696188&ds_e_product_country=GB&ds_e_product_language=en&ds_e_product_channel=online&ds_e_product_store_id=&ds_url_v=2&albcp=17866112291&albag=&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwv7O0BhDwARIsAC0sjWOk7oUNWBsG25YgRzjMRSiBVcyzPvpAMOJp_KIUWY2q_iOrgnLpK6caAjWDEALw_wcB&aff_fcid=31ce0324c02b4d27b83894953dc25068-1720551511271-06178-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=31ce0324c02b4d27b83894953dc25068-1720551511271-06178-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=cafaa4e107884a5b930659a9d324972f&afSmartRedirect=n

Ooh!  New forum automatically hyperlinks!  Nice!

surely those aliexpress links must be a con?  £65 for an slx groupset (without brakes and cranks). Says doesn't ship to my address when I click through! Looks iffy.

Original 10sp shifter, still going strong! Changed the bb a couple of times, but replaced with the same HT2 style. My frame has a 73mm bb tube and I have one spacer on the drive side. Overall width of the cups is just under 100mm (rough measurement)

I don't think it's a full boost chainset, but I remember reading something about having a boost chainline, possibly to clear the plus tyres? I might be imagining it though.

I didn't think it had a boost chainline. Ive got the same model with the 73mm bb shell and a drive side spacer already. I've got 3.0 Coronados mounted on the original scraper rims. might just revert back to 10speed and get a cheap 11-46.  does the original long cage mech need the extender?

I guess the fact it was a double means the big ring must be aligned with the boost spec chainline?